seansasLCY
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BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 8:25 am

BA are launching LCY-IOM with up to three daily services. It will initially be operated by a EMB170 but then a wet leased Saab 2000 from Eastern. Apparently the plane will be painted in BA colours.

News from @TheHUBroutes on twitter.

Now I can just hope for a NQY route!
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 8:34 am

Quoting seansasLCY (Thread starter):

BA are launching LCY-IOM with up to three daily services. It will initially be operated by a EMB170 but then a wet leased Saab 2000 from Eastern. Apparently the plane will be painted in BA colours.

Now this comes as a surprise. BA wet leasing SAABs from Eastern to operate to IOM? Would it have been easier to use theur partner Sun Air for that?
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Pe@rson
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 8:35 am

Very interesting and this follows the termination of the route by VLM and Aer Arann.

I must try to fly the S20.

[Edited 2012-05-09 01:40:05]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
kaitak
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 10:26 am

I wonder if LCY-JER will follow at some stage; I know Blue Islands flies it now with ATR42s (and an F50), but business travellers would probably prefer the jet.

With the LGW-based 734 fleet being whittled down and no economic justification to replace them, I can't help wondering if BA will try and capture pax from the busiest business routes and persuade them to fly via LCY.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 10:35 am

Interesting move. BA really has been making great strides at LCY.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 10:41 am

A cinfirmation on what has been said on:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...ba-to-launch-lcy-isle-of-man-route

and here are are the schedules...

Weekday flights will depart LCY at 0725, 1300 and 1740, with the return legs leaving the Isle of Man at 0915, 1450 and 1930.

Very interesting to see BA colours on S20.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 10:44 am

I can't say I'm too surprised by this, I understand it has been under consideration for a while after it became clear that Aer Arann would be pulling out.

Quoting seansasLCY (Thread starter):
Now I can just hope for a NQY route!

I'm not sure it would work without a stop at (the now mothballed) PLH. A night-stopping D328 service might be in with a chance, certainly ASW showed the loads were excellent for such an operation, but most of the higher yielding traffic originated at PLH, which could be a problem.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
I wonder if LCY-JER will follow at some stage;

That again has been rumored for a while. I think it will be a logical step in the future.


Dan  
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Liverpoola380
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 11:06 am

I know there is a lot competition with the West Coast mainline but I would love to see a BA LCY-MAN service added.

With the aquistion of BD maybe they will operate a couple of flights after they run the cull on the domestic flights
 
Pe@rson
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 11:12 am

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 7):
I know there is a lot competition with the West Coast mainline but I would love to see a BA LCY-MAN service added.

Zero chance of LCY-MAN-LCY. And this unlikelihood is increasing every day - not just from the speed and frequency of train travel, but also the ease, pretty much hassle-free nature, and convenience they bring vis-a-vis flying on short sectors.

[Edited 2012-05-09 04:12:57]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
extspotter
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 11:20 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 6):
Quoting seansasLCY (Thread starter):
Now I can just hope for a NQY route!

I'm not sure it would work without a stop at (the now mothballed) PLH. A night-stopping D328 service might be in with a chance, certainly ASW showed the loads were excellent for such an operation, but most of the higher yielding traffic originated at PLH, which could be a problem.

How about making it LCY - EXT - NQY? I know that the train is very competitive to Exeter (only about 2 hours 15 minutes from Paddington) however it may bolster NQY passenger numbers to make the service viable.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 11:27 am

Quoting extspotter (Reply 9):
How about making it LCY - EXT - NQY? I know that the train is very competitive to Exeter (only about 2 hours 15 minutes from Paddington) however it may bolster NQY passenger numbers to make the service viable.

That would definitely not work, Exeter to Paddington by train is too quick and convenient, being as you say around the 2 hour mark. A direct summer NQY service would probably be in with a shot though, NQY are desperate for more services so would cut BACF a good deal.


Dan  
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Pe@rson
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 11:39 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 10):
That would definitely not work

Absolutely.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 10):
A direct summer NQY service would probably be in with a shot though

Possibly. I don't think it will materialise, though, but that's just a hunch.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
GSTBA
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 11:39 am

Was having coffee with friends at LHR at the weekend and they mentioned that BACF were adding a S20 to the fleet. I just thought it to be rumour but as we have found out today it was a fact. The Saab's are good little aircraft especially when it comes to operating short commuter hops. I have a feeling we could be seeing more than one Saab in BA colours and possibly another 2 domestic destinations added.

Quoting seansasLCY (Thread starter):
Now I can just hope for a NQY route!

I don't think you will ever see a return to a direct NQY to LCY route. There is just not the year round market.
[

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
I wonder if LCY-JER will follow at some stage; I know Blue Islands flies it now with ATR42s (and an F50), but business travellers would probably prefer the jet.


I think JER is definatly one of the top 5 routes BA would look at opening from LCY. One option with the JER route would be to make it as part of a combined flight operating. A E90 could be used to operate to JER then on to GCI. With the aircraft operating a pattern like this:

1. GCI-JER-LCY-JER-GCI-JER-LCY-JER-LCY-JER-GCI

[Edited 2012-05-09 04:46:37]
 
BestWestern
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 12:04 pm

The Saabs last saw LCY back in the days of pre air france cityJet
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Pe@rson
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 12:13 pm

Quoting GSTBA (Reply 12):
The Saab's are good little aircraft especially when it comes to operating short commuter hops

And a fast machine!

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 13):
The Saabs last saw LCY back in the days of pre air france cityJet

Other former S20 operators at LCY include Darwin, Crossair, Swiss.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 1:38 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 13):
The Saabs last saw LCY back in the days of pre air france cityJet

Much more recently with Darwen on LCY-BRN.
 
jet72uk
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 2:37 pm

Unlikely too many more at LCY as it is slot restricted and lack of aircraft. Nice to see IOM though.
 
runway23
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 2:48 pm

I wonder what is next for BA out of LCY ?

Perhaps GVA (year round with greater frequencies), LIN, FCO, DUB, MUC, HAM ?
 
jumpjets
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 17):
I wonder what is next for BA out of LCY ?

BA have another E 190 coming later in the year and I heard a rumour that it will be used to start an FCO rotation.
 
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 16):
Unlikely too many more at LCY as it is slot restricted and lack of aircraft.

That is a common misconception, LCY is not slot restricted and there is plenty of scope for growth within the current facilities.


Dan  
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skipness1E
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 19):
That is a common misconception, LCY is not slot restricted and there is plenty of scope for growth within the current facilities.

That's misleading, it is VERY restricted at the times that business needs to fly, between 0630-0930 and between 1730-1930. There is lots of off peak opportunities for sun routes but not so much for day return business travel.
 
eicvd
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 17):
Perhaps GVA (year round with greater frequencies), LIN, FCO, DUB, MUC, HAM ?

No chance of a LCY-DUB return (not in the near future anyway!) They only cut that route a few years ago.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 20):
That's misleading, it is VERY restricted at the times that business needs to fly, between 0630-0930 and between 1730-1930.

Making it no different from many other airports - peak time slots will always be harder to obtain, however this does not make an airport slot restricted in general so I would not class such a statement as misleading.


Dan  
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skipness1E
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 22):
so I would not class such a statement as misleading.

It's restricted at the times when any new entrant needs to fly. Is that clear enough? The times when it is free are times when the based carriers offer routes to the South of France or Spain. There is little room in the times required to serve the market on the Wharf and the London business community which is the core business of the airport. The fact that almost nothing moves between noon and 2pm is a clue.
 
GolfBravoRomeo
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 10):
That would definitely not work, Exeter to Paddington by train is too quick and convenient

When did that happen? 15 years ago my in-laws lived in Cornwall, I would only half heartily joke that NYC-LON flight was faster than getting to their place (a 90 minute drive from Exeter) from the airport. It would have been sweet to do JFK-LCY-EXT.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):
It's restricted at the times when any new entrant needs to fly. Is that clear enough?

I can see what you are saying, I simply don't agree with it. Both that an airport is considered slot restricted in general just because it's busy in two peaks during the day and that slots are unavailable during these peak times.

Quoting GolfBravoRomeo (Reply 24):
When did that happen? 15 years ago my in-laws lived in Cornwall, I would only half heartily joke that NYC-LON flight was faster than getting to their place (a 90 minute drive from Exeter) from the airport. It would have been sweet to do JFK-LCY-EXT.

Exeter to London has always been more convenient by train, it's likely to be quicker too by the time you account for getting to the airport, checking in, the flight time and then exiting at the destination. This is despite rail services to the South West now take longer now than they did in the 1980-90s under BR, such is progress in this part of the world.


Dan  
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vv701
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 6:53 pm

Quoting jet72uk (Reply 16):
Unlikely too many more at LCY as it is slot restricted
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):
It's restricted at the times when any new entrant needs to fly. Is that clear enough?

According to the slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd, neither slot demand nor slot allocation is at capacity at LCY at any time of the day. Indeed, although it is high between 07:00 and 08:00 in the morning and 17:00 amd 18:00 in the evening, in each and every one of the eight periods of one hour between these two peaks LCY is operating at well below 50 per cent of its available capacity.

Check this out on page 11 of the S12 Start of Season report here:

http://www.acl-uk.org/reportsStatistics.aspx?id=98&subjectId=39
 
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adg737800
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 7:08 pm

A shrewd move - connecting the finance industries of the City and IOM - and I bet there's plenty of Exec Club members on the IOM who would switch from Flybe into LGW to this new flight too.

Can't wait to raid my Exec Club miles and go for a SAAB 2000 joyride!
Next flights: LCY-IOM (BA) IOM-LGW (U2); LHR-KUL-LHR (BA); KUL-LGK-KUL (AK)
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 26):
in the morning and 17:00 amd 18:00 in the evening, in each and every one of the eight periods of one hour between these two peaks LCY is operating at well below 50 per cent of its available capacity.

Hmmm odd given the evening rush kicks off just before six, it's pretty quiet between 5 and 5:45, though between 0730 and 0900, many arrivals find themselves holding for a gate. Stand 11 is out of use at the mo due to demolition work.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 26):
According to the slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd, neither slot demand nor slot allocation is at capacity at LCY at any time of the day. Indeed, although it is high between 07:00 and 08:00 in the morning and 17:00 amd 18:00 in the evening, in each and every one of the eight periods of one hour between these two peaks LCY is operating at well below 50 per cent of its available capacity.

   Exactly.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 28):
Stand 11 is out of use at the mo due to demolition work.

Stand capacity is far more of an issue than slot capacity.


Dan  
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skipness1E
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 29):
Stand capacity is far more of an issue than slot capacity

Maybe I am being thick, but surely slot capacity is constrianed by parking availability? There's no remote parking at LCY, (stands 12-14 are not used for "waiting" they are bussing stands).
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 30):
Maybe I am being thick, but surely slot capacity is constrianed by parking availability?

Potentially, it depends on the turnaround times as to whether available runway capacity (in regular operation) can exceed available stand capacity. The 'free' parking time is 40 minutes from touchdown to take off, so operators try to stick within it - typically 30-35 minutes stand time IIRC.

This time is fine for 30-100 seat aircraft, but would be pushing it for the 130 seat aircraft which LCY intends to mature towards, meaning stand capacity becomes a constraining issue even with the current runway set up, before a fully dependent loop is added to the Eastern threshold. Partly for this reason I think it's pretty obvious that the stand 'replacement' LCY is planning will actually just be expansion, with the older, smaller stands retained for smaller, lower aircraft like the Eastern Saab 2000 which will operate the IOM service.


Dan  
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ZuluTime
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 11:39 pm

Slot capacity at LCY is indeed constrained by parking, but the coordinator will not grant slots for any operation which has a turnround of more than 35 minutes during the peak hours. The BA LCY-JFK operation is the sole exception and it means that the airport has to block slots from use by other carriers to be able to accommodate it due to the impact of the A318s on parking stand availability.

There are peak hour slots available at LCY in the morning and evening. There is one slot per day between 07:00 and 07:59, two or three slots per day between 08:00 and 08:59 and various slots available in the evening. Slots are not the main problem for operators at LCY - the airport's rapacious charging structure for peak time slots is the bigger issue which has contributed to the loss of a number of routes and the consequent availability of peak hour slots.
 
GT4EZY
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RE: BA Launch LCY-IOM

Wed May 09, 2012 11:59 pm

I think what he means is ATC slots....... I imagine, whilst parking is obviously restricted at peak times, it doesn't have much to do with slots AFAIK. You could build a huge new apron at LHR, for example, but that airport would still be slot restricted.
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