MAH4546
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AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 5:10 pm

AMR starting this weekend will begin to load reductions in summer flying - not because it wants to, but because it has to. Too many FA's are calling in sick, many likely in an attempt to sabotage the airline they hate to work for, and AA will not have enough flight attendants to operate its planned schedules. The reductions will largely be day-of-week and frequency reductions on high frequency routes and should start loading this weekend.

I have also heard there continues to be pilot shortages - but AA only has itself to blame for that, for not hiring enough pilots over the past few months. The shortages are nothing new, and I can't believe AA hasn't well prepared itself for it yet again.
a.
 
HAL
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 5:18 pm

Don't blame the FA's actions for this reduction. Airlines don't plan & load schedules because of 'sickouts'. They plan their schedules based on where they want to fly, and the number of flight crew employed. If the airline is not cancelling flights because they don't make money on them, then it is because they haven't hired enough people to staff the flights. Blaming work actions by the employees is not truthful.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
AJMIA
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
AMR starting this weekend will begin to load reductions in summer flying - not because it wants to, but because it has to. Too many FA's are calling in sick, many likely in an attempt to sabotage the airline they hate to work for, and AA will not have enough flight attendants to operate its planned schedules.

There have been a lot of people calling in sick in all departments.

I do not think the sick calls are an attempt to sabotage the airline, but rather because AA plans to make changes to the sick and attendance policy reducing the amount of sick pay you earn the longer you are out. It is not finalized but it will go something like the first three days 100% of sick pay and then the percentage of pay will go down the longer you are out sick.

Employees with large sick banks have been "getting sick" so they can use up their sick bank at 100% pay. If AA wanted to stop this all they would have to do is rethink this change and announce that they will not implement it.

A lot of people also "get sick" just before they retire because AA gives very little for unused sick time. If they paid more out for it or offered other incentives not to use it at the end of a person's career they would probably reduce absenteeism even more.

AJMIA
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JFKPurser
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 5:43 pm

Actually, we love our airline. We just hate our management, who won't be there for very much longer.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 3):
We just hate our management, who won't be there for very much longer.

Who knows? Youre batting 50% on the rumors youve floated on anet so far. Could go either way.
It is what it is...
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 5:53 pm

This from the airline that wants to layoff 2,300 flight attendants and 400 pilots. Which is it AMR? Do you have too many, or not enough? As for the sick calls, management was naive to think employees with large sick banks would sit back and let them go to waste.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
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par13del
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 2):
A lot of people also "get sick" just before they retire because AA gives very little for unused sick time.

I have always been confused by this, always regarded sick days as an insurance, you have it in case you need it, if you don't get sick it's done, start the next year clean.
Anyway its a policy implemented by management when they thought it was something small and they had bigger fish to fry, and yes I know unions push for and have such protections of sick days in their contracts, management did not have to agree.
My employer presently gives 5 sick days paid per year accompanied by a doctors notification, and whatever is not used is not used, next year you got 10 days and it cannot be added to vacation time either.

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 3):
Actually, we love our airline. We just hate our management, who won't be there for very much longer.

Hopefully the airline will be there much longer.
 
quiet1
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 2):
I do not think the sick calls are an attempt to sabotage the airline, but rather because AA plans to make changes to the sick and attendance policy reducing the amount of sick pay you earn the longer you are out. It is not finalized but it will go something like the first three days 100% of sick pay and then the percentage of pay will go down the longer you are out sick.

Interesting operating philosophy, to penalize (punish?) employees with long-term illnesses/disabilities. "So sorry you have cancer. We're reducing your pay because of it."

Is this a common strategy these days amongst US employers?
 
Tdan
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 2):
There have been a lot of people calling in sick in all departments.

I do not think the sick calls are an attempt to sabotage the airline, but rather because AA plans to make changes to the sick and attendance policy reducing the amount of sick pay you earn the longer you are out. It is not finalized but it will go something like the first three days 100% of sick pay and then the percentage of pay will go down the longer you are out sick.

Employees with large sick banks have been "getting sick" so they can use up their sick bank at 100% pay. If AA wanted to stop this all they would have to do is rethink this change and announce that they will not implement it.

A lot of people also "get sick" just before they retire because AA gives very little for unused sick time. If they paid more out for it or offered other incentives not to use it at the end of a person's career they would probably reduce absenteeism even more.

Interesting. If this is the case, the AA management should issue an employee bulletin to either allow crew to cash out their sick bank or guarantee that it will remain untouched after changes are implemented going forward. This should be elementary for anyone in an HR department. I can't blame crews for using it if they're going to lose it without fairly being compensated.

Hopefully these sick outs are not just dirty tricks meant to force AA management out via a merger with US.
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PPVRA
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 7):
Interesting operating philosophy, to penalize (punish?) employees with long-term illnesses/disabilities. "So sorry you have cancer. We're reducing your pay because of it."

Is this a common strategy these days amongst US employers?

It's called reality. If AA doesn't fly, they don't get paid at all. No, customers won't pay a little to get nowhere.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
BDL757
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 6:35 pm

Do you think they will lessen the number of crews they are planning on furloughing?
 
Lexy
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 7):
Interesting operating philosophy, to penalize (punish?) employees with long-term illnesses/disabilities. "So sorry you have cancer. We're reducing your pay because of it."

Is this a common strategy these days amongst US employers?

No, but sickness discrimination (or pregnancy discrimination) is. The Japanese Auto Makers with plants here in the US are doing things to curb the amount of money they pay out for sick days as well. This is a national trend among the largest employers.

My wife's employer let her go 7 months into her pregnancy. Cancelled the insurance and enforced her non-compete. I know this isn't "sickness" related, but it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
deltal1011man
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 6:53 pm

good for them. NMB wont give them help them self help is the way to do it.

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 3):

*sigh* i think your board is to stupid for this. Wish you were right though.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 5):

They are just making self help easier for the employee groups.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
threeifbyair
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 6:57 pm

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 8):
Interesting operating philosophy, to penalize (punish?) employees with long-term illnesses/disabilities. "So sorry you have cancer. We're reducing your pay because of it."

Is this a common strategy these days amongst US employers?

Many workers in the US, myself included, don't get any sick leave. If I was unable to work, I'd stop getting paid when I ran out of vacation days, which would get me only into next week at the moment.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 5):
This from the airline that wants to layoff 2,300 flight attendants and 400 pilots. Which is it AMR? Do you have too many, or not enough? As for the sick calls, management was naive to think employees with large sick banks would sit back and let them go to waste.

I'm puzzled as well - surely AA will have to cut the number of layoffs accordingly, or at least boost the number of reserve FAs.
 
rfields5421
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 7):
Interesting operating philosophy, to penalize (punish?) employees with long-term illnesses/disabilities. "So sorry you have cancer. We're reducing your pay because of it."

Is this a common strategy these days amongst US employers?

When I got sick back in 2001 - the company I worked for had a "Cadillac" insurance policy.

First all my sick days and all my vacation days were used up. Then I went on Short Term Disability. That was provided at company expense, no deductions from my pay.

For up to six months I received half my normal salary. My social security, taxes, 401K, insurance and such deductions continued. So I received well less than 1/2 of my normal take home pay.

But I was happy to have that - because at that company at least - I had no worries about my job not being there when I got well. As soon as the doctors cleared me to sit in the office daily, the company took me back at full pay, though it was four or five months before I could really work full time and do my job fully.

Had I been on Short Term Disability for over six months, I would have gone to Long Term Disability - 60 months - at 70% pay and medical insurance paid by the company. One of my co-workers was out for almost three years with leukemia and a bone marrow transplant. (Note - we could choose 50% or 70% LTD with a payroll deduction. It was required - the premiums were $12 and $18 per pay period for LTD.)

That said - I was pretty lucky. I've known several other people with union jobs, management jobs and non-union hourly jobs who got sick or injured - almost none had as good a plan as I did.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting lexy (Reply 12):
My wife's employer let her go 7 months into her pregnancy. Cancelled the insurance and enforced her non-compete

Sorry for going off topic, but is that really legal in the US ? It sounds like something out of 1950's or '60's.

Anyway, back on topic, I tend to agree with other posters, If AA have decided to reduce flights it is probably because it suits them to do so. While the OP is often a great source of information, just like with any other poster, it is necessary to 'interpret' his posts. To some extent or another all of us have our own agenda when posting here. Some people love to bash ( or promote) a particular airline, others have their own anti-management or anti-labour hobbyhorses. This is perfectly natural, but it is just necessary to be aware that posts are rarely neutral ( my own included) and that when interpreting them we need to familiar with the sort of 'filters' a particular poster is likely to apply to any given event.
 
sflaflight
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:17 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):

I have also heard there continues to be pilot shortages - but AA only has itself to blame for that, for not hiring enough pilots over the past few months. The shortages are nothing new, and I can't believe AA hasn't well prepared itself for it yet again.

No you are right. There are pilot shortages. I mean AA is cutting flights in peak season, with load factors the highest they've been in while, with an economy that is picking up and management is still talking layoffs. There are hundreds (1153 actually) of pilots on furlough and age 65 limit starts to kick in in December I mean I just dont get it. And the other problem is most P2P has already been axed. The cornerstoned strategy means almost all traffic gets routed through hubs and this will cut even more. Oh and btw, we are also getting into summer weather which means even a mid week, multiple cut frequency cut have effects on the system. AA has pilot bases in non hub cities that require AA to deadhead at pay around the system because the cuts in these cities have been so severe taking up valuable revenue seats. Yeah, it is a mess
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 17):
If AA have decided to reduce flights it is probably because it suits them to do so.

I have no "agenda." AA is reducing flying because too many FA's are calling in sick. It's that simple - there is no other reason for the reductions.

If you want to argue why they are calling in sick - whether to sabotage the airline or in fear of reduced benefits - that's fine. But the flying is being cancelled because there are not enough FA's this summer.

[Edited 2012-05-09 12:22:49]
a.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 3):
Actually, we love our airline. We just hate our management, who won't be there for very much longer.

As to the management you hate, it seems the rest of the unsecured creditors don't "hate" them so much. In fact, they all agreed with the decision to challenge your contracts in court. BTW, that doesn't mean the rest of the unsecured creditors "hate" the unions. It just seems that way because it is just business.
 
simairlinenet
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting HAL (Reply 1):
Don't blame the FA's actions for this reduction. Airlines don't plan & load schedules because of 'sickouts'. They plan their schedules based on where they want to fly, and the number of flight crew employed. If the airline is not cancelling flights because they don't make money on them, then it is because they haven't hired enough people to staff the flights. Blaming work actions by the employees is not truthful.

Did you work for Northwest in 2007? I did. My first week on the job, and this was what I worked on:

http://joesharkeyat.blogspot.com/200...est-pilots-weather-in-plot-to.html

Quote:
EAGAN, Minn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 29, 2007--Northwest Airlines today issued the following statement regarding its recent flight cancellations and its plan to address the issue:

During June, Northwest Airlines' mainline schedule has been negatively impacted by several factors, the most important of which are: summertime thunderstorms on the east coast and at several Northwest hubs, air traffic control congestion, and pilot absenteeism -- which was 80 percent higher in June 2007 versus June 2006. The cumulative impact of these factors caused the airline to pre-cancel hundreds of flight during the past week.

Over the past week (June 22 to June 28) the average percentage of canceled flights on a system-wide basis, including all NWA mainline and Airlink flights, was 7.6. For the same period, the average percentage of cancelled mainline flights was approximately 11.9.
...
Northwest is continuing to take the necessary steps to address the situation including:
-- Canceling its second Detroit-Frankfurt frequency, effective July 18, to free up 757 pilots to fly other routes.
-- In August, the airline will take further actions to reduce its schedule by 90 flying hours per day (a three percent domestic mainline capacity reduction) to increase its "reserve" of pilot flying hours.

-- The airline continues to retrain its furloughed pilots so that They can return to active flying. Northwest wants all remaining furloughed pilots to return to work as soon as possible and it will initiate new pilot hiring, if necessary.
...

A few weeks later, DTW-BRU and DTW-DUS were also cancelled to free up flying hours.

If you want to talk about work action, then why was it that Northwest's block performance improved from worst to best (65% on-time to 85%) starting the day after the announcement the SVP of Flight Ops would not be retained in the merger?

[Edited 2012-05-09 12:45:13]
 
AT
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:44 pm

Indeed, rather peculiar. How can you be laying off / furloughing crew and then complaining that you don't have enough?
And if a number of crew are calling in sick, can't they have a back-up /reserve pool they can use?
 
rcair1
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 7):
Is this a common strategy these days amongst US employers?

No - many employers are either - combing vacation and sick into 1 bank - great if you don't get sick, not so much if you do., or just ignoring sick for non-chronic illnesses. They play the averages - they know the 'average' employee will get sick x amount - so they don't really care. Chronic illnesses are dealt with on an individual basis.

Of course, none of these are union companies.
rcair1
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
I have always been confused by this, always regarded sick days as an insurance, you have it in case you need it, if you don't get sick it's done, start the next year clean.

That's how they are in a non-union environment, though some more progressive companies call them PTO and allow you to take them for any reason, though not successively. My wife's employer just has 5 sick days a year, resetting on day of hire anniversary, which expire if not used. Time beyond 5 days, you would file for temporary disability or if you didn't want to (couldn't prove the need) you could take unpaid time off or use vacation days, of which she gets 10 which accrue with each paycheck.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
Sorry for going off topic, but is that really legal in the US ? It sounds like something out of 1950's or '60's.

Depends on the circumstances. To fire someone because they are pregnant? No, that's illegal. To fire them for poor performance, legal. If she was the only one fired in the office at that time and doesn't have bad reviews, she has a legal standing to sue including punitive damages.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
quiet1
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 7:58 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 5):
As for the sick calls, management was naive to think employees with large sick banks would sit back and let them go to waste.
Quoting AJMIA (Reply 2):
I do not think the sick calls are an attempt to sabotage the airline, but rather because AA plans to make changes to the sick and attendance policy reducing the amount of sick pay you earn the longer you are out. It is not finalized but it will go something like the first three days 100% of sick pay and then the percentage of pay will go down the longer you are out sick.
Quoting lexy (Reply 12):
No, but sickness discrimination (or pregnancy discrimination) is. The Japanese Auto Makers with plants here in the US are doing things to curb the amount of money they pay out for sick days as well. This is a national trend among the largest employers.

My wife's employer let her go 7 months into her pregnancy. Cancelled the insurance and enforced her non-compete. I know this isn't "sickness" related, but it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about.
Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 15):
Many workers in the US, myself included, don't get any sick leave. If I was unable to work, I'd stop getting paid when I ran out of vacation days, which would get me only into next week at the moment.

It saddens me to see the state to which the situation has devolved. In the good old days, sick leave was negotiated (unionized) or granted (non-unionized) as a good faith benefit to cover bona fide illnesses/injuries. From the responses in this thread, I sense that sick leave is now merely a cash benefit to be used/abused at will by both sides, and even *expected* to be abused by the employee.

There can, and perhaps should (if dominant prevailing sentiments are as indicated here), be provisions for the employee to document bona fide long-term illnesses/injuries. e.g. Instead of an automatic cut in benefit after 3-days, permit full coverage for documented illnesses/injury. But, no. It's employees raping the benefit from their side, and management doing the same from theirs.

It's possibly a reflection of the "it's all about me" attitude these days? It was bluntly stated in another thread a while ago that being in the airline industry and considering it to be a career was an out-dated, quaint notion. Now "it is only a job" in a dog-eat-dog world, and anybody not in that mind set is out of touch with reality. I'm feeling older by the day.
 
chepos
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
Sorry for going off topic, but is that really legal in the US ? It sounds like something out of 1950's or '60's.

Anyway, back on topic, I tend to agree with other posters, If AA have decided to reduce flights it is probably because it suits them to do so. While the OP is often a great source of information, just like with any other poster, it is necessary to 'interpret' his posts. To some extent or another all of us have our own agenda when posting here. Some people love to bash ( or promote) a particular airline, others have their own anti-management or anti-labour hobbyhorses. This is perfectly natural, but it is just necessary to be aware that posts are rarely neutral ( my own included) and that when interpreting them we need to familiar with the sort of 'filters' a particular poster is likely to apply to any given event.


Very true,

Regards,

Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
frmrCapCadet
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:11 pm

Sickleave, vacations, medical, retirement as well as salary are part of an employment package. Neither good nor bad, not expensive not cheap. It all is negotiated. Employers know, or they should know just how much all of this costs. If they are sane they fund them as they accrue. If they (and unions or employees) are not sane, they imagine that in some never neverland of easy high profits will bail them out from costs they could not previously cover.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:20 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
Who knows? Youre batting 50% on the rumors youve floated on anet so far. Could go either way.

Things are not as they may appear. Certain entities are saying one thing publicly for political reasons and making other promises behind closed doors. So maybe I know something you don't. Just sit back and relax.
 
JFKPurser
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):
Who knows? Youre batting 50% on the rumors youve floated on anet so far. Could go either way.

Things are not as they may appear. Certain entities are saying one thing publicly for political reasons and making other promises behind closed doors. So even though im just an overpaid, entitled flight attendant, maybe I know something about what's really going on that you don't. But I really dont care who here does or does not believe me, because you will all see it with your own eyes in due time. Just sit back and relax.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:32 pm

"I have no "agenda." AA is reducing flying because too many FA's are calling in sick. It's that simple - there is no other reason for the reductions."

Airlines fly "block hours" and base staffing on that. Then they have a rsv minimum that must be met. This covers sick calls

Airline Staffing 101: you do not cancel block hours for projected sick calls months in advance.

You raise rsv mins to cover sick calls if needed. If you do not hire to cover block hours + rsv mins, you fly less block hours.

So to bring it right back around for you, AA has not staffed the airline to cover the rsv mins they need plus the flying as scheduled.

Considering they are doing these cancellations months out, this is likely by choice: it is easier and cheaper to reduce block hours then to up staffing for higher rsv mins.

One other note, few block hours also means fewer rsvs needed, which again lowers the mins.
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:33 pm

The increased sick calls are not a collective action to ruin the company, nor a singular action or protest -- employees are simply using benefits they've spent years accruing before they're wiped clear. Blame who you want: the unions, the employees, or the company. The sick/vacation policies are negotiated items within each work group's respective unions/contracts and agreed to by the unions, their members and the company. Now that the company is hell bent on taking the benefits which were already earned, I can't blame individuals for doing what they see fit to realize those benefits before they're gone. I said it before, and I'll say it again, if the company didn't think this would/could be a potential consequence, they were naive.

As for PTO, that is Jetblue's system for their crew members, and I wouldn't mind a similar policy being implemented at AA. Or even better, how about National 2.0's policy of unlimited time off? I know that's not practical, but hey, who wouldn't want that? National claimed their policy actually reduced time off with pay, saving the company on employment costs. In a perfect world...
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
Av8tor
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:36 pm

If AA management is succesful with the 1113 process on June 6th, I would expect sick calls to be the least of AMR's problems!
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:38 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Airline Staffing 101: you do not cancel block hours for projected sick calls months in advance.

You raise rsv mins to cover sick calls if needed. If you do not hire to cover block hours + rsv mins, you fly less block hours.

So to bring it right back around for you, AA has not staffed the airline to cover the rsv mins they need plus the flying as scheduled.

Considering they are doing these cancellations months out, this is likely by choice: it is easier and cheaper to reduce block hours then to up staffing for higher rsv mins.

  

It's just another public assault by AA on their employees, all the while never acknowledging their predominate role in the demise of a once great company.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
rojo
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:43 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
I have also heard there continues to be pilot shortages - but AA only has itself to blame for that, for not hiring enough pilots over the past few months. The shortages are nothing new, and I can't believe AA hasn't well prepared itself for it yet again.

Are you serious... I though you knew well what AA was going through. Why would AA hire more pilots for a couple of months and then fire them? AA is trying to make pilots fly more throuhg the 1113 process which translates into having enough pilots to staff the summer and winter schedules.
 
miaami
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RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
AMR starting this weekend will begin to load reductions in summer flying - not because it wants to, but because it has to. Too many FA's are calling in sick, many likely in an attempt to sabotage the airline they hate to work for,

I usually look forward to and respect your informative posts, but this statement you make is really for the birds!!!!

If AA would not have let the cat out of the bag that they were going to screw over anyone who has large sick banks (large because they never call in sick) they wouldnt be in this situation. This doesnt affect the "bad apples" that call in sick all the time because they have little sick time. I know people that have over 900 hrs of sick time and are going to lose alot of it if/when the contracts are thrown out. Bad Management is the cause of this. They could have handled this so much better. Being a good employee at AA gets you nothing, and then to have you accuse them of hating the company they work for or trying to sabatoge it is just plain BS!!! Shame on you MAH4546.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4454
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 28):
Things are not as they may appear. Certain entities are saying one thing publicly for political reasons and making other promises behind closed doors. So even though im just an overpaid, entitled flight attendant, maybe I know something about what's really going on that you don't. But I really dont care who here does or does not believe me, because you will all see it with your own eyes in due time. Just sit back and relax.

I said nothing about you being overpaid or entitled, so you can go ahead and stop playing the victim.

As for the other, you made a huge point about Boeing being on board with the Unions and US Airways when they have publicly stated otherwise. So have the other creditors.

I frankly dont care who is in charge. Its all the same to me. But I do think you guys are kidding yourselves. Even if US management steps in, you better brace yourself for when the other shoe drops. In a very short time the unions will come to hate DP just as much.
It is what it is...
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:48 pm

Maybe AA should do away with the asinine practice of accrual of sick days like they are vacation. Give employees a set number of paid sick days per year, the rest are unpaid.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 28):
Things are not as they may appear. Certain entities are saying one thing publicly for political reasons and making other promises behind closed doors. So even though im just an overpaid, entitled flight attendant, maybe I know something about what's really going on that you don't. But I really dont care who here does or does not believe me, because you will all see it with your own eyes in due time. Just sit back and relax.

You told us Boeing was on your side. Shortly thereafter, Boeing came out and said they supported the work AA management was doing.

You told us the PBGC was on your side. The PBGC voted along with the other non-union, unsecured creditors to continue with the 1113 section hearings. (That was after the unions pleaded with them to stop the process.)

Now, you are telling us that promises are being made behind closed doors. Sorry, I am calling your bluff.

[Edited 2012-05-09 13:56:22]
 
AT
Posts: 882
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 26):
Sickleave, vacations, medical, retirement as well as salary are part of an employment package. Neither good nor bad, not expensive not cheap. It all is negotiated.

May be in theory , and may be at the upper-most levels of a company, but for most employees these variables are certainly neither negotiated or negotiable. These are set by the company.


Having said that, I agree with the above posters that "sick days" are often a shade of gray that can be misused.
May be the policy should be to have a minimal operational staff requirement.. I work for a University / Hospital and in our Division, no more than a certain proportion of essential staff (and flight attendants would qualify as essential) can take vacation at a given time.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 9:11 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
Airline Staffing 101: you do not cancel block hours for projected sick calls months in advance.

Months in advance? We are talking about June. AA has too many FA's calling in sick in June and can't run its current schedule as planned next month.
a.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5271
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
AA is reducing flying because too many FA's are calling in sick.

How could AA "cancel" flights in June/July based on flight attendants calling in sick? Do flight attendants call in sick a month in advance? This makes absolutely no sense.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 40):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
AA is reducing flying because too many FA's are calling in sick.

How could AA "cancel" flights in June/July based on flight attendants calling in sick? Do flight attendants call in sick a month in advance? This makes absolutely no sense.

There are too many FAs on the sick list for this summer. I'm not familiar with the nuances of how sick lists work, but other popular message boards, which I can't link to, have better explanations of what is going on at AA. It's been an ongoing problem, but AA has been able to handle it so far with the lighter spring schedules.

[Edited 2012-05-09 14:20:45]
a.
 
miaami
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 9:23 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
Months in advance? We are talking about June. AA has too many FA's calling in sick in June and can't run its current schedule as planned next month.

What would you be doing if you were in the same situation as an AA employee with hundreds of hours to lose? If they put off having any medical procedures done, it might be wise to have it done before they lose their sick time and their medical deductables skyrocket.
 
PlaneAdmirer
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:39 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 9:29 pm

Assuming that the assertion of excessive sick leave is true, the FA union is very effectively making the company's case for tearing up the contracts. The judge knows AA needs income in bankrutpcy and acts that disrupt that goal won't be looked on favorably.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 36):
Maybe AA should do away with the asinine practice of accrual of sick days like they are vacation. Give employees a set number of paid sick days per year, the rest are unpaid.

They maybe able to do tht with non-unionized employees, but the terms of sick days and vacation for the union folks would be covered by their contracts.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 976
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting Av8tor (Reply 31):
If AA management is succesful with the 1113 process on June 6th, I would expect sick calls to be the least of AMR's problems!

The case law does not support your assumption.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 32):
It's just another public assault by AA on their employees, all the while never acknowledging their predominate role in the demise of a once great company.

There is a lot of blame to go around. Unions rode the gravy train for a long as they could, meanwhile telling everyone within earshot that they gave up everything when by the admission of one of your very own they knew they had not.

And as public assaults go, wasn't it a FA who mocked AA on youtube? Heck, there is a FA posting on Flyertalk now who is advising AA frequent flyers to dump AAdvantage. With employees like these, who needs competitors?
 
miaami
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 10:15 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 44):
With employees like these, who needs competitors?

Having the entire fleet of MD80's grounded twice for not following FAA regulations properly. you might also say - with management like this who needs competitors?
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 10:19 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
But the flying is being cancelled because there are not enough FA's this summer.

That's AA's fault on how to deal with manning, and their antiquated reserve system.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 41):
I'm not familiar with the nuances of how sick lists work, but other popular message boards, which I can't link to, have better explanations of what is going on at AA.

Obviously you're not familiar. So you got your information from a popular message board, and then come running over here to post that AA FA's are sabotaging the company.

You need to get your facts straight. But your bias dislike for the work group has always been clear. This is AA making sure the judge sees them as the victim, when in reality they're just a seriously mismanaged mess. But don't worry Mark, once Tom imposes 1113, he'll grab his golden parachute and exit, leaving Parker to takeover. And if you think for one minute that the cornerstone, stand alone plan with Horton at the helm will prevail, you're wrong. Horton want's out with his share, nothing else.

Now let the games begin!
"The low fares airline."
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 10:34 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 37):
You told us the PBGC was on your side. The PBGC voted along with the other non-union, unsecured creditors to continue with the 1113 section hearings. (That was after the unions pleaded with them to stop the process.)

They are just going along with the process. It was expected and has no bearing on their position vis-a-vis a US takeover. This is a non issue.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 37):
You told us Boeing was on your side. Shortly thereafter, Boeing came out and said they supported the work AA management was doing.

This is this is their public position. It is purely politics.

I know it seems unfathomable to you, but did you ever stop to consider that I may have extremely close connections to people who are deeply involved in this that know even more about it than you? But go ahead. Call my bluff. You know more about this than I do, I guess.

[Edited 2012-05-09 15:41:50]
 
EricR
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 10:48 pm

Quoting JFKPurser (Reply 28):
Just sit back and relax.

You forgot to add the following words to the end of your sentence...."and enjoy your flight".
 
usa330300
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:29 pm

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting HAL (Reply 1):
Blaming work actions by the employees is not truthful.

Are you serious? Have you ever worked with these front of line FAs and pilots? AA has the staffing met. They just happen to have employees that use "thuggish" work tactics as a means to an end. And unfortunately, if they do not grow up, it will be the end of employment.
 
michman
Posts: 606
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

RE: AA To Reduce Flying Due To Lack Of Crew

Wed May 09, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 7):
Interesting operating philosophy, to penalize (punish?) employees with long-term illnesses/disabilities. "So sorry you have cancer. We're reducing your pay because of it."

Is this a common strategy these days amongst US employers?

My employer has separate long-term disability coverage that is not tied to sick time. We get up to 15 sick days a year which resets each year. Note that we are only expected to use sick days when we are actually sick. I suppose there are some people who abuse the system, but most people seem to be honest.

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