RP TPA
Topic Author
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 1999 9:40 am

18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 1:46 am

Well, this is one of the better stories I've heard. A JetBlue family was removed from a flight. Not because of anything the parents did....it because their 18 MONTH OLD DAUGHER was supposedly on the "Do Not Fly" list.

Well, at least JetBlue admitted it was an error.   

Courtesy of CNN.com:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/10/travel...o-fly-toddler/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4641
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 2:40 am

For the record, it was her name that matched a name on the no-fly list. Happens more often than you think.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 4:55 am

Interesting how the parents not show their faces "for fear of repercussions" yet parade their poor child on national TV.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
Bureaucromancer
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:17 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 5:33 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):

And its usually cleared up without pulling people from flights, and without the TSA trying to pin the problem on the airline.
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 5:42 am

Quoting RP TPA (Thread starter):
Well, this is one of the better stories I've heard. A JetBlue family was removed from a flight. Not because of anything the parents did....it because their 18 MONTH OLD DAUGHER was supposedly on the "Do Not Fly" list.

So, do I understand this right: despite it being recognised that their daughter was 18mos old and clearly NOT the person on the no-fly list, they were STILL kicked off the plane?

This is absolutely ridiculous. Surely someone among the security staff with half a brain would have noticed "this clearly isn't a terrorist and take the required decision?
 
oldeuropean
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:19 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 5:49 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 4):
This is absolutely ridiculous. Surely someone among the security staff with half a brain would have noticed "this clearly isn't a terrorist and take the required decision?

As a TSA agent, you can't know. Perhaps after the discovery of the alleged underpants, this toddler could have been famous for her explosive Pampers.
 
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 5:56 am

I was going to say that as well. I mean, after all, there was a suspicious brownish mass found in the toddler's underwear which had to be tested by the authorities. I hope they had small enough hand cuffs for proper arrest procedures.
powered by Eierlikör
 
EBGflyer
Posts: 635
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:05 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 9:42 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 4):
This is absolutely ridiculous. Surely someone among the security staff with half a brain would have noticed "this clearly isn't a terrorist and take the required decision?

It's just another story that unfortunately tells a lot about the TSA and their rigid procedures. It seriously is a pain going through security in the US and I doubt their rigid approach actually makes flying safer. I would say on the contrary. Resources are spent the wrong place - obviously here on a baby. Well done TSA.
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG
 
varigb707
Posts: 1236
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 6:02 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 11:36 am

"Up to this point in her life, Riyanna had only ever dropped bombs in her diaper, but that wasn’t fooling the TSA:
- Dropping bombs on her diapers...   
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 800
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 4):

So, do I understand this right: despite it being recognised that their daughter was 18mos old and clearly NOT the person on the no-fly list, they were STILL kicked off the plane?

They were not kicked off the plane. They were asked to disembark while the issue was sorted out. They chose not to re-board once the issue was resolved.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 9:40 pm

Well I knew it!!! I knew one of these days that Stewie Griffin kid would finally get in trouble!
 
speedbird203
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:28 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 10:23 pm

I've heard it all now.. Age no longer matters. But i agree with the above, Surely something could of been done so they didn't get kicked off, But then that could risk a delay of flight which no airline is going to put up with just for a couple passengers.
Metro Tower 135.0
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 10:52 pm

Lap-terrorists are a growing threat. Good job TSA and jet blue for not caving to the Coucil for American Infant Relations
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ksancoflyer
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:44 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 1):

For the record, it was her name that matched a name on the no-fly list. Happens more often than you think.

It really does. I can tell you that when I was younger, both my sister and I were on the no-fly list. This was around 2005, luckily we were able to clear it up and proceeded with our journey. TSA and CO were both amazing and helped us out.
Work Hard. Fly [W]Right.
 
Tbone354
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:11 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Fri May 11, 2012 11:48 pm

TSA and airline paranoia is only one of hundreds of reasons I choose to no longer fly unless I absolutely, no way around it must. It simply is not worth all the hassle! I recall the days when the flight to and from my destination was more than half the fun Beam me up!
 
HBGDS
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:09 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Sat May 12, 2012 1:52 am

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 5):
As a TSA agent, you can't know. Perhaps after the discovery of the alleged underpants, this toddler could have been famous for her explosive Pampers.

I can top that. My 4-month old daughter flew with us out of MDT in September '03. Thorough search of course, and then, though she was asleep in my arms as we went through both metal detector and wand (without beeping), the TSA guy insisted on checking the diapers. I only wish this had come five minutes later, so he could have experienced her explosive delivery (by then into the re-sealed diaper). I didn't bother complaining. I figured that's one for family lore I can embarass her with when she's a teen...
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Sat May 12, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting Tbone354 (Reply 14):
TSA and airline paranoia is only one of hundreds of reasons I choose to no longer fly unless I absolutely, no way around it must.

Have heard a lot of the TSA overthe top reactions.....what is the cause of this....Is the training causing them to be extra vigilant or are they just unprofessional....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Sat May 12, 2012 10:00 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Have heard a lot of the TSA overthe top reactions.....what is the cause of this....Is the training causing them to be extra vigilant or are they just unprofessional....

When they report for work the have to complete a check-list which starts with

Go by the book tick yes

switch of your brains: tick yes

apply common sense tick no

go by the book tick yes

make own decisions based on situation. tick no


could be carried on.......

  
powered by Eierlikör
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Sat May 12, 2012 11:25 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):

sounds more point by point rules rather than common sense this TSA folks follow.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Sat May 12, 2012 3:05 pm

That fits the topic, go to üpictures 3 and 4

Translation: are the underwear bombers among us?

http://www.welt.de/satire/article106...e-Freibeuter-Norbert-Roettgen.html
powered by Eierlikör
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Sat May 12, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 7):
It's just another story that unfortunately tells a lot about the TSA and their rigid procedures. It seriously is a pain going through security in the US and I doubt their rigid approach actually makes flying safer.

Which is why when planning longhaul, i.e., South Pacific/Australia, even if it costs more, I choose a routing that avoids ConUS and Hawaii. Europe is easy.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):
When they report for work the have to complete a check-list which starts with

Go by the book tick yes

switch of your brains: tick yes

apply common sense tick no

go by the book tick yes

make own decisions based on situation. tick no

   At work, our own security people are more robots than humans. And no sense of humour, except amongst themselves. Perhaps they get a chuckle recounting how many people they've ticked off today.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Bureaucromancer
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:17 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Sat May 12, 2012 6:45 pm

You know, at the end of the day I can understand pulling the people from the flight assuming they hadn't actually confirmed it was only a name match. Quite frankly from someone at the TSA level there is no real reason to discount someone as a threat due to age - how hard would it really be to hide a bomb in a diaper. Frankly it sounds like exactly the kind of loophole that can make an apparently protected against attack work.

To me the problem here is that this wasn't flagged an handled before boarding, and even worse given that in any human system mistakes will be made that the TSA couldn't just admit that a mistake was made. Seriously, even if you think an apology could constitute an admission of some sort of liability (and it usually doesn't) how hard is it to say something to the effect of "our mistake, have a nice day". Basic civility and human behaviour, even when following idiotic (or otherwise unpleasant) regulation to the letter goes a long way.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3657
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: 18-month Old Child On "Do Not Fly" List!

Sun May 13, 2012 2:27 am

The reason this kind of incident can happen in the US isn't because airline employees or TSA agents are thoughtless automatons (contrary to popular belief) but because processes often matter as much as, if not more than, outcome, and the people (said airline employees and TSA agents) who are in the position to avoid ridiculous outcomes such as this one often do not have the power to deviate from the process.

One needs only read jetBlue's statement to see that it is indeed the case. Their employees followed "the appropriate protocols" and so therefore are shielded from blame, at least as far as the airline is concerned. That these protocols were followed is more important than the end result. In fact, if employees had deviated from these protocols, they might have been disciplined, just as jetBlue might be fined for not following the "appropriate protocols" to deal with a match on the No-Fly-List, no matter how ludicrous that match might be.

Checklists, processes, protocols, standard operating procedures... They all have their place in the appropriate settings, but in the US, they have replaced independent thought and individual judgement far too often, in large part because deviations can be sanctioned even if they make sense to most reasonable people.

After all, what else can we expect when a criminal can be set free because evidence was "tainted" by the failure of a police officer to file the right form at the right time...
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.