BDL757
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DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 8:07 am

First off, this is more speculation than anything because at this point it seems most likely that American and US Airways will merge. I've read the DL Interested In Acquiring AMR? threads and didn't really think much of it. I was reading some industry articles online and found an interesting piece: IAG eyes luring Delta into Oneworld pact which was written in just back in March.

I just wanted peoples take on this. It seemed like IAG was looking to put money into AMR if they could team up with another airline to do it and it's interesting that they (possibly) thought of DL as the carrier to do it with. I initially never even thought a DL/AA merger would get past the DOJ but if you think about it:

-There would certainly be overlap in the NYC market but even if the new airline surrendered slots they could still be a powerhouse in the NYC market
-The new airline would have the southwest/lower midwest covered with AA's hub in DFW
-The new airline would have the southeast covered with DL's hub in ATL
-Merging operations in LAX create a much stronger/viable hub
-South America covered by MIA and a NRT hub for Asia
-They only issue would be the MSP/ORD/DTW situation
-DL/AA have a relatively complementary fleet

Anyway the article was thought provoking...what do you think of it? A legitimate idea or more of a fluff piece?

-BDL757
 
chepos
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 8:37 am

If DL makes a move for AA it would be to dismantle the carrier, MIA is what they would be attracted to the most. If they were to go for the airline as whole this would make for too big of an operation most prob resulting in a heck of alot of AA people being sacked, let's not mention this making it through the DOJ. You would see the outrage from half of Texas as the airline would definitely move everything from centreport to the ATL. Yeah, I'm sure AA employees really want DL to take them over.

[Edited 2012-05-12 01:44:13]
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
5MillionMiler
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 8:46 am

I don't think the regulators would ever allow that -- both two big to merge. US would work. Hope AA survives in OneWorld, and if US joins the party moves to OW and DFW should be HQ.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 9:06 am

Impossible too large for federal approval. US would have to take dfw and ord and Delta would be forced to give up some lga/jfk euro peak timed slots at a minimum or something like that. I doubt the three way can happen, I still think it's rough but us and AA is probably more likely and has momentum right now.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 9:43 am

I don't think a merger of AA with anyone is good for the traveling public. An AA/US merger would be a disaster. US hasn't even settled all the union issues, yet, with their merger with HP. A DL/AA merger would just be to big of an airline, initially with about 1200+ airplanes, although the MD-82/-83/-88s would all be gone before to long, as would the older B-757s and B-762s. The B-787 MOU, A-32X order, A-32X-NEO order, and B-737MAX order may all get canceled. But DL would increase the B-77W order.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 10:12 am

Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
Yeah, I'm sure AA employees really want DL to take them over.

bet they wouldn't have three pilot groups.   

seeing that they have already made agreements with US, and they are facing large lay-offs anyways, i'd bet if the Delta management team promised to stay they green light Delta too.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 10:44 am

I actually think an AA/DL merger would do nothing but help the combined entity. Having both ATL and DFW would be huge. Every city where DL lacks strength (DFW/LAX/ORD/MIA) is big in the AA network. There would be less competition between LGA and ORD/ATL/DFW, less competition on Transcontinental routes, less competition on JFK-LHR and BOS-LHR, a Latin America powerhouse, a one-carrier deal with AS....I could go on and on. The benefits of such a combination would be absolutely worth the complexities. Even the international aspect is terrific. A tie-up with JL in lieu of KE would be much more complementary to DL's presence in NRT. DL still maintains plenty of capacity to MAD/BCN, which would be perfect for a tie-up with IAG, in addition to all the LHR flying. This is the "next generation" merger in my book and far surpasses a tie-up with US.
 
5MillionMiler
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 6):
This is the "next generation" merger in my book and far surpasses a tie-up with US.

Yes it would be a mega merger and create a massive powerhouse in terms of market coverage and reach, but the government would likely never allow it
 
rwy04lga
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 2:44 pm

The AA workforce combined with the pro-union PMNW crowd....Delta would become a union airline. Yuck!
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
HPRamper
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 4:26 pm

Such a merger would effectively destroy US and make UA a clear underdog as well. The network would be unparalleled both domestically and internationally, overall, although UA would still be ahead in Asia/Pacific.

That said, no chance it would be approved by the government so it's a moot point.
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
An AA/US merger would be a disaster. US hasn't even settled all the union issues, yet, with their merger with HP.

But here's the beauty of it... I recall reading somewhere that US/AA would likely propose a direct DOH integration for seniority, which is exactly what the PMUS pilots are feuding with the PMHP pilots over. Basically what the PMHP pilots are pushing for is an adjusted DOH integration, which would royally screw over some very senior US pilots.

When you consider the AA and US pilot groups, they're largely similar in terms of the range of seniority, so a direct DOH integration would likely not ruffle too many feathers....

Except the former HP pilots, who would now be in the minority. If a proposal for direct DOH integration were put to a vote, it would likely pass, and they'd all now be on one contract.

It may sound strange, but this merger may be precisely what US needs to get its pilots on one contract.
 
usairways787
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 5:21 pm

[quote=rwy04LGA,reply=8]The AA workforce combined with the pro-union PMNW crowd....Delta would become a union airline. Yuck!

One thing you may fail to realize, it isn't just about you, it's about all of us. It will happen eventually, you know it
and DL knows it. It's just a matter of time.
"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
 
Flighty
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 6):
This is the "next generation" merger in my book and far surpasses a tie-up with US.

There is nothing new or particularly advanced about monopolies.
 
coachclass
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 5:48 pm

DL could do what it did to PA: buy routes. DL could take over MIA and all the South America routes. It doesn't need any more European or Asian routes.
 
milesrich
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 6:21 pm

AA can merge with US/HP, and that combined mess can then take a trip to Bankruptcy Court too. Then UA and DL can split up the spoils. Bye Bye CLT, IAH, CLE, MEM, CVG(I know, it's almost gone).
Seriously, the merger route with US is a mess, and a merger right now with DL would not be approved. Three legacy carriers are not too many, but if an AA/US combine are to succeed, their labor problems must be solved.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 11):
[quote=rwy04LGA,reply=8]The AA workforce combined with the pro-union PMNW crowd....Delta would become a union airline. Yuck!

One thing you may fail to realize, it isn't just about you, it's about all of us. It will happen eventually, you know it
and DL knows it. It's just a matter of time.

Seems they've survived without unions (for the most part) for over 80 years........people have been saying "it's just a matter of time" since I hired on in '71 and I'm sure before that. See any unions on the property, yet?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
usairways787
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):

At the moment I've seen and heard things brewing. Also don't forget there are still a lot of NW people within the company, which adds fuel to the fire.
"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
 
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mayor
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 16):
Also don't forget there are still a lot of NW people within the company, which adds fuel to the fire.

Adding fuel to a fire that didn't need to be lit.  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
chepos
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sat May 12, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting milesrich (Reply 14):
AA can merge with US/HP, and that combined mess can then take a trip to Bankruptcy Court too. Then UA and DL can split up the spoils. Bye Bye CLT, IAH, CLE, MEM, CVG(I know, it's almost gone).
Seriously, the merger route with US is a mess, and a merger right now with DL would not be approved. Three legacy carriers are not too many, but if an AA/US combine are to succeed, their labor problems must be solved.

I dont know what you are drinking but at the moment both IAH and CLT are thriving hubs. IAH is not going anywere anytime soon under UA and neither is CLT for US. If AA were to be broken up as you predict I highly doubt UA would dump IAH.

Regards,

Chepos

[Edited 2012-05-12 15:29:50]

[Edited 2012-05-12 15:30:33]
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
toltommy
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 1:50 am

IMO its unlikely, but it certainly is an interesting what if. DOJ would almost certainly force some divestitures. My thoughts:

JFK - Sell T8 and a number of AA's peak hour slots. Maybe VX wants to buy it (they seem to be able to raise money endlessly. Perhaps give the Virgin-branded airlines a reason to form a formal alliance and transfer traffic over JFK? WN may also be interested to build up the caribbean network coming with FL. B6 may give them a run for their money though.

ORD - Not slot controlled, but gate space is the issue. DL would gladly give up a sizeable amount of gates in order to create a major focus city at ORD. They could focus on the top O&D markets and not worry about worry about connecting traffic to small midwestern markets. ORD would benefit from enabling new entrants into the market. However, a number of current AA spokes would lose service (think TOL), or give UA a monopoly (think CWA), driving up fares.

LAX - Sell off T4. Again, maybe VX wants it to build their natural alliance with other Virgin carriers.

DFW - Everything old is new again. DL winds up with the DFW hub they wanted 25 years ago. But does it come at SLC's expense?

Eagle - Merge whats left of Comair into it, give it a new contract full of performance bonuses and spin it off.

In all reality, a DL acquisition of parts of AA may do more to create competition. A US/AA will almost certainly inhibit it.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 11):
One thing you may fail to realize, it isn't just about you, it's about all of us.

...and all of 'us' isn't the union. Most of 'us' are the CURRENT majority that don't want a union. Were DL to acquire AA, the scale would tip to the union. It's about me and the rest of the majority (us) trying to keep Delta out of grief.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
JFKPurser
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 5:17 am

So many "experts" here who just do not know what they are talking about.
 
Ih8b6
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 5:32 am

Oh my gosh. Are we really going to start all this crap AGAIN! Gee whiz!

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 16):
At the moment I've seen and heard things brewing.

Sure you have.

That reminds me - one time I was standing on a ramp in a city in the mid 90s I worked in with 4 guys: 3 that had been around a long time, me with 6 years with the company, and a guy that was a new hire. No one new I had 6 years, they thought I was new hire because I had just transferred to the ramp and my "colors" made it look like I was new. I was handed a union card. The NEW HIRE said "yeah you better sign it. THEY just keep taking and taking stuff away from us". Ha! LOL, what a little joker idiot this kid was, he had no freaking idea what he was talking about. Poor kid. So yeah, I bet you've heard things brewing - in the same way this new hire had things taken away from him.

Quoting mayor (Reply 17):
Adding fuel to a fire that didn't need to be lit.

So very very true.  
Over-moderation sucks
 
EricR
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 5:45 am

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 13):

No they can't unless AA put routes up for sale. PA intentionally put their European markets up for sale. Unless AA does the same (which they won't), DL cannot buy them.
 
BDL757
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 6:02 am

While I don't think anything between AA/DL is likely I just thought it was interesting that BA would consider teaming up with DL when US management has been quite vocal about their wanting a merger with AA...wouldn't BA want to team up with US?

Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
If DL makes a move for AA it would be to dismantle the carrier,
Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
the airline would definitely move everything from centreport to the ATL.

Actually, I don't think the carrier would be dismantled as the route networks in most cases are quite complimentary. When I read the original 'DL interested in AMR' thread I actually thought the American/AAdvantage names would stay.

Quoting chepos (Reply 1):
Yeah, I'm sure AA employees really want DL to take them over.

I'm sure no employee ever wants their airlline to be taken over, but alas people like me at the bottom of the food chain have no say in the matter!  
 
Max Q
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 6:54 am

I can't believe how many of you are counting AA out completely.


They may have stumbled, but they will be back, perhaps with a US merger.



But there won't be a fire sale.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
ghifty
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 6:58 am

They can finally bring back the Deltaflot iivery!
Fly Delta Jets
 
Beardown91737
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 8:54 am

The same government that let banks that were too big to fail combine into banks way to big to fail just might approve it. Delta was in DFW once, and would probably like to be back. US may not get hurt by this but could potentially stand to benefit if the government forced route divestiture. Places like CWA may not suffer either because DL could still serve them from MSP or DTW or both, or even from ORD.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 14):
Then UA and DL can split up the spoils. Bye Bye CLT, IAH,

UA could use CLT, DL would want back into DFW which would leave UA with IAH which they are favoring now anyway.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 11:27 am

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 24):
While I don't think anything between AA/DL is likely I just thought it was interesting that BA would consider teaming up with DL when US management has been quite vocal about their wanting a merger with AA...wouldn't BA want to team up with US?

I believe BA was speaking hypothetically and would prefer to have a US partner than not have one. Given its strength in NYC, I believe DL would be a better partner for BA than AA if DL were part of oneworld, but the DL/AF/KL history is so long and varied that I do not see that coming to an end. However, DL obviously recognizes the value that LHR holds for its NYC passengers, and BA likely also sees the value of DL's domestic network from LGA/JFK, the Upper Midwest and the Southeast.
 
OOer
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting rwy04LGA (Reply 20):
...and all of 'us' isn't the union. Most of 'us' are the CURRENT majority that don't want a union. Were DL to acquire AA, the scale would tip to the union. It's about me and the rest of the majority (us) trying to keep Delta out of grief.

This is perhaps one thing I just don't understand of so many Delta employees. They treat "Delta" the corporation as a superior entity. Willing to do anything for the benefit of this entity at their own expense/peril.

It should be about making sure Delta turns a profit AND your quality of life getting better. There needs to be a balance.

Here is Delta making record profits and most employees still have a below average compensation package. Delta plays with the numbers to make the base pay look like it's average and the masses drink the kool-aid like there's no tomorrow.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 11:08 pm

You know, I really used to want DL+AA... I only saw it as a fantasy but really wanted it. As "cool" as it would be to see DL and AA get together, I honestly see it creating a mess that could potentially destroy DL. Maybe, just maybe DL could somehow yank a hub out of AA's (or US' hands) but I doubt that too. DL is big enough, UA is big enough too. Even AA+US might be overdoing this merger mania, but we'll see...
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Flighty
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 11:11 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 29):
It should be about making sure Delta turns a profit AND your quality of life getting better. There needs to be a balance.

Delta employees have an okay quality of life. I think your remark shows displeasure that people want the company to do well. That is ridiculous. Delta employees want to know their future is secure. People are sick of this airline bankruptcy era. They just want to see their team do well again. Employees are always paid at least their market wage, often much more. Free flights are also a nice perk. This doesn't mean people are happy; only that they are fairly paid. Not grateful and gushing tears of joy; fairly paid.
 
OOer
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Sun May 13, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
Delta employees have an okay quality of life.

An "okay" quality of life is probably a good description for most (not those with under 5-6 years with the company).

But is "okay" acceptable with the airline is having some of the most profitable quarters in it's history and the executive team is racking up millions as if they were going out of style?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
I think your remark shows displeasure that people want the company to do well. That is ridiculous.

Not at all. Employees should want the company to do well, just not at their expense.

Would I as an employee rather have Delta make $2 billion per year and have an okay quality of life, or
Would I as an employee rather have Delta make $1.5 billion per year and have a good quality of life

I would hope most pick the 2nd choice.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
They just want to see their team do well again.

Again. nothing wrong with that..unless it's at your own expense.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
Employees are always paid at least their market wage, often much more.

What do you think a market wage for a new-hire cabin crew member is?

Most new hire Delta flight attendants are sent to New York City right out of training. What do you think a fair amount is?

$20,000 per year?
$25,000 per year?
$30,000 per year?
$35,000 per year?
$40,000 per year?

What's the required income for an "okay" quality of life in New York City?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
Free flights are also a nice perk.

With load factors at an all time high and records expected again this summer most of the time this "free perk" turns into a massive headache. It's not what it once was.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 31):
This doesn't mean people are happy; only that they are fairly paid. Not grateful and gushing tears of joy; fairly paid.

Again. fairly paid. What is fairly paid considering the financial condition of Delta?
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 32):
What's the required income for an "okay" quality of life in New York City?

Many industries start their entry-level employees off with a salary under $35,000/year in New York City.

It's doable. I did it.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
toltommy
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 1:05 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 29):
Here is Delta making record profits and most employees still have a below average compensation package.

Source?

Since you claim that DL employees have a below average compensation package, you must know what the package is. Since you know what it is, please feel free to share it with us. Oh, and you must know what average is as well. Again, please feel free to share. Links would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 3:05 am

Having worked at Delta in DFW I think it would be great just to see Delta take over DFW or at least have a huge operation like it did in the 80s -2001. AA kind of pushed DL out but I bet DL would have the last laugh going taking over those cons on Amon Carter Blvd.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 29):
Here is Delta making record profits and most employees still have a below average compensation package. Delta plays with the numbers to make the base pay look like it's average and the masses drink the kool-aid like there's no tomorrow.

Well, that settles it.........I guess that YOU are smarter and know more than half the employees that work at DL. That's all I can get out of this statement.



(now, where is that damned sarcasm emoticon, anyway).
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
SESGDL
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 3:38 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 30):
You know, I really used to want DL+AA... I only saw it as a fantasy but really wanted it. As "cool" as it would be to see DL and AA get together, I honestly see it creating a mess that could potentially destroy DL.

I completely fail to understand how anyone who's an aviation enthusiast could possibly be in favor of any of the mergers that have taken place or could potentially take place in the future. Do we honestly want to have two or three airlines in this country and the same colors, aircraft, services, etc? What I wouldn't give to have back the likes of TW, NW, HP (original), CO, PA, EA, BN, FL (soon-to-be gone) and many others. There used to be some much variety, so much choice. I understand that this is the way that business has been moving but for those of us in the industry and those who follow and enjoy it, it's preposterous that so many applaud these decisions. I wholeheartedly disagree with a DL/AA merger as well as an AA/US merger. I hope each company can survive and flourish as standalone carriers.

Jeremy
 
OOer
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 33):
Many industries start their entry-level employees off with a salary under $35,000/year in New York City.

It's doable. I did it.

Starting wage for cabin crew working average hours (80 per month) is roughly $21,000 per year. I agree that $35,000 per year is doable in NYC but Delta cabin crew reaches that level after maybe 7-8 years. Starting pay for a 40 hour work week for customer service agents is similar.

Quoting toltommy (Reply 34):
Source?

That Delta is making record profits?
http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=19199248&itype=storyID

Monthly earnings for Delta cabin crew based on 85 hours per month at top pay:

Southwest = $5,893
Continental = $4,545
Alaska = $4,543
American = $4,013
UsAir = $3,910
United = $3,717
JetBlue = $3,552

-----------------------------------

Average = $4,310
Delta = $4,017 (this includes the 3% July increase)

The source for all these are the various bargaining agreements between the work groups and the airlines all of which (except JetBlue) can be found online.


If you want to add work rules and insurance benefits Delta literally falls off a cliff with some of the highest premiums, deductibles, and overall out of pocket expenses.
 
Sancho99504
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 1:16 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 38):

Sir, I work upwards of 70 hours week and bring in $3600/mo àvg after tax. If I were bringing in the same working 21.25 hours per week, I can still have a good quality of life. Just because some people cannot manage their finances on 4k a month doesn't mean we need a union to come in for higher wages because those people will still be broke at 9k per month.


Sancho
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
OOer
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting sancho99504 (Reply 39):
Sir, I work upwards of 70 hours week and bring in $3600/mo àvg after tax. If I were bringing in the same working 21.25 hours per week, I can still have a good quality of life. Just because some people cannot manage their finances on 4k a month doesn't mean we need a union to come in for higher wages because those people will still be broke at 9k per month.

Just because crew members get paid for 85 hours a month does not mean they worked 85 hours in a month. 85 hours per month for a crewmember is the equivalent of 40 hours per week for other regular jobs.

As I said above, cabin crew at Delta starts out at roughly $21,000 per year ($1,785 gross per month). That's quite a bit less than $3,600 net per month.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 5:30 pm

For some   , the pay/travel benefits package at Delta is good enough. If it's not good enough for others, you'll find that transit authorities also have pay/travel benefits packages that lean more heavily to the 'pay' side. I believe there's a topic about that over on CityBuses.net
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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mayor
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 5:41 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 40):
As I said above, cabin crew at Delta starts out at roughly $21,000 per year ($1,785 gross per month). That's quite a bit less than $3,600 net per month.



And quite a bit more than unemployment.  

[Edited 2012-05-14 10:43:44]
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 5:44 pm

Quoting rwy04LGA (Reply 41):
For some   , the pay/travel benefits package at Delta is good enough.

Yes of course it's always good enough for some. Especially in this economy you'll easily find someone to do your job for less than what you do it for and Delta knows that.

As you see above however I pointed to record profits for Delta and below average compensation for employees, not about if it's "good enough" for some.

Just remember, you get what you pay for. The next time you're at JFK/LGA/ATL or wherever and the agent at the gate acts like he just doesn't give a $%*! well think of those travel benefits  Wow!
 
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 43):
The next time you're at LGA and the agent at the gate acts like he just doesn't give a $%*! well think of those travel benefits

I do, all the time. However, all of my coworkers treat me nicely.
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 43):

Just remember, you get what you pay for. The next time you're at JFK/LGA/ATL or wherever and the agent at the gate acts like he just doesn't give a $%*! well think of those travel benefits

I guess it's a generational thing. Back in my day, you did the best job that you could, no matter how much you were paid.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 6:16 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 32):
Not at all. Employees should want the company to do well, just not at their expense.

Would I as an employee rather have Delta make $2 billion per year and have an okay quality of life, or
Would I as an employee rather have Delta make $1.5 billion per year and have a good quality of life

I would hope most pick the 2nd choice.

Everybody would pick the 2nd choice and nobody is suggesting they should not. In 2011, Delta paid out approximately $330M in profit sharing and rewards to the frontline. This was in a year--a "record" year, as you say--when DAL generated a 5.6% operating margin and 2.4% net corporate margin.

If DAL was generating consistent double digit net margins with employees at or near industry standard pay and no profit sharing program in place, you might have a point about them not getting their fair share. But that scenario isn't happening.

Quoting OOer (Reply 38):
Average = $4,310
Delta = $4,017 (this includes the 3% July increase)

"Average" depends on who you include in Delta's competitive set. Once Southwest/AirTran have a single contract, I think your list is pretty reasonable. But that hasn't happened yet.
 
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 6:19 pm

It would be nice to see DL back at DFW. This situation would never happen though. Just wait until Dougie takes over AA.
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 46):
"Average" depends on who you include in Delta's competitive set. Once Southwest/AirTran have a single contract, I think your list is pretty reasonable. But that hasn't happened yet.

They already have a contract, all AirTran flight attendants will be covered by the Southwest contract. The transition process begins in a couple of weeks.

The airlines included in Delta's competitive set are the one Delta lists as being in their competitive set, so we're using their own criteria.

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 46):
Everybody would pick the 2nd choice and nobody is suggesting they should not. In 2011, Delta paid out approximately $330M in profit sharing and rewards to the frontline. This was in a year--a "record" year, as you say--when DAL generated a 5.6% operating margin and 2.4% net corporate margin.

For the average employee (excluding the pilots) this comes out to around $1,000 after taxes. The amount you received is all based on your income.

This year profit sharing came out to 4.85% of your annual eligible earnings for 2011. Based on $35,000 in a year it comes out to $1,697 pre-tax. Or around $1,000 post-tax.

Also, many other airlines pay out profit sharing so just as Delta employees get it...so do many other airline employees. This extra $1,000 still doesn't bring you up to industry average.

There's no way to spin these numbers. Delta offers below average compensation for all their non-union employees. Pilots on the other hand are near the top compared to other pilots in the industry, just as are the Delta executives.

Quoting rwy04LGA (Reply 44):
Quoting OOer (Reply 43):
The next time you're at LGA and the agent at the gate acts like he just doesn't give a $%*! well think of those travel benefits

I do, all the time. However, all of my coworkers treat me nicely.

Talk to other employees especially crewmembers who commute and ask them who they think the rudest agents are. I'm willing to be that many say it's their own coworkers that work the gates.

Quoting mayor (Reply 45):
I guess it's a generational thing. Back in my day, you did the best job that you could, no matter how much you were paid.

It's easy to play the "generation" card but the truth is that back in the day Delta offered employees above average compensation package and this generosity turned into positive attitudes and more productivity.
 
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RE: DL And AA? An Interesting Article

Mon May 14, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 42):

7.50 an hour is better than being jobless. Would you have been happy with that when you worked at Delta? You would have had a job, and thats the only thing that matters right? didn't think so. smh.

PS hows that pension? sure wish I had one.  
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