doulasc
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Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sat May 12, 2012 5:44 pm

What do you think the future has in store for the Embrarer E-190 fleet at JetBlue.I hear the fleet will top at 75 aircraft down from a 100. At the time I haven't heard of any plans for any new short haul aircraft at JetBlue.I can't wait to see their Airbus A-321.
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sat May 12, 2012 5:49 pm

The E190 will continue to play an important roll in starting up new cities with light demand, serving shorter-haul routes that you don't want to flood with extra seats/capacity, and even handling the longer/mid-length thinner routes. I also see it playing a role in "connecting the dots" when/if the airline starts doing so. You will probably see B6 try to get rid of some of the older birds while new deliveries come in to reduce the fleets age while increase reliability. I don't see the plane going anywhere for quite some time as it does serve an important role in what the airline is trying to do (IMHO).
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N766UA
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sat May 12, 2012 5:57 pm

I'm hoping they keep them around; I prefer flying them to the more crowded feeling 320.
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LAXintl
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sat May 12, 2012 6:38 pm

I think it will comes down to economics and network strategy.

In one of the earnings calls from last year when they announced the reduction of the eventual E190 fleet, they basically said that while the E190 was a decent plane, they saw better case for growth of the A320 family and NEO at the airline.

Also 11 E190s were sold for 2013-2014 delivery. That was announced last summer.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sat May 12, 2012 8:07 pm

Still no 190s at lgb but since it's slot restricted i guess no real shocker so we might not see any out west for a while
 
flyby519
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 1:13 am

What is the advantage of the E190 vs A319? I've heard the heavy checks on the 190 are almost as much as a 320. It is a bit discouraging to see the original 100+100 order turn into a max of 75 airframes.
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LAXintl
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
Still no 190s at lgb but since it's slot restricted i guess no real shocker so we might not see any out west for a while

E190s came and went. JetBlue opted to pull E190s off West Coast operations.
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Moose135
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 1:42 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 2):
I'm hoping they keep them around; I prefer flying them to the more crowded feeling 320.

I flew one for the first time a couple of weeks ago between JFK-CLT and back, and I agree, it's a nice ride!
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BOS2LAF
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 5:05 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
Still no 190s at lgb but since it's slot restricted i guess no real shocker so we might not see any out west for a while

They nixed the E190s on the West Coast for 2 reasons:

-No maintenance base out west. If the lone MCO-AUS-LGB flight had a mechanical in LGB, they were screwed.

-LGB wouldn't allow the E190 to be considered for the commuter slots. B6 figured it'd be a waste of a regular slot when they could use it for a 320.

I really think that LGB is boxing themselves in with these tough restrictions, and they could've been much more of a hub for B6 if they were even just a little more flexible. I would not be surprised to see more LGB ops slowly transition to LAX.
 
BOStonsox
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 6:48 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
The E190 will continue to play an important roll in starting up new cities with light demand, serving shorter-haul routes that you don't want to flood with extra seats/capacity, and even handling the longer/mid-length thinner routes.

The E190 seems perfect for expanding BOS. If they want business traffic to medium-sized cities with less demand like BOS-CMH/IND/CVG, or higher frequencies on shorter routes like BOS-JFK/Washington, the E190 would be good for those.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 7:09 am

Lgb has restrictions but it's a very busy airport its slot restricted for a reason. with Boeing leaving though and a new terminal I think they might find some more flex in the future and be able to arm twist a little more
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 8:47 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 5):
What is the advantage of the E190 vs A319? I've heard the heavy checks on the 190 are almost as much as a 320. It is a bit discouraging to see the original 100+100 order turn into a max of 75 airframes.

E190 carries fewer passengers and is more efficient than the direct Airbus competitor, which is the A318.

The E190 is basically the DC-9 replacement. Similar size, similar range.
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N757ST
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 10):

LGB isn't busy, trust me. This is all people near the airport not wanting the noise... Nothing more, nothing less.
 
divemaster08
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Send some down to GCM!

Would love to see them fly from either FLL,MCO or JFK down here! As AC seem to be showing, the E190 is great for these longer, thinner routes to the Caribbean!
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jfklganyc
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 12:43 pm

The E190 is 2/3 the size of the 320 (in terms of B6 seat configuration) but does not burn 2/3 the fuel or have 2/3 the mx xosts or have 2/3 the flight crew operating cost.


So. . . The plane has higher seat costs than the 320. This is a problem on B6s leiure routes which tend to generate lower yields
 
icebird757
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 8):
No maintenance base out west. If the lone MCO-AUS-LGB flight had a mechanical in LGB, they were screwed.

Actually we have a MX base here at LGB, the problem with the E-190 out here was that we did not have the space to keep all parts necessary for the 190.
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jfklganyc
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 2:07 pm

"Actually we have a MX base here at LGB, the problem with the E-190 out here was that we did not have the space to keep all parts necessary for the 190."

Well that was a smart business plan, wasn't it?
 
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United_fan
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 2:26 pm

B6 sends the -190's to ROC off and on from JFK.
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JHCRJ700
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 7):

Quoting N766UA (Reply 2):
I'm hoping they keep them around; I prefer flying them to the more crowded feeling 320.

I flew one for the first time a couple of weeks ago between JFK-CLT and back, and I agree, it's a nice ride!

I look forward to my flights up to Boston because I know I'll be flying on an E190. I've heard some people complain about it being a rough ride but I haven't noticed I think they are great.
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strfyr51
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 2:52 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 5):

Why would you expect the heavy checks to cost less for virtually the same size airplane?? The Engine overhaul might be less but I doubt it.
 
BOS2LAF
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting ICEBIRD757 (Reply 15):
Actually we have a MX base here at LGB, the problem with the E-190 out here was that we did not have the space to keep all parts necessary for the 190.

I should've clarified... No 190 maintenance base.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting N757ST (Reply 12):
LGB isn't busy, trust me.

I dont know what airport you are looking at, but in 2011 LGB had 311,577 movements.

That's almost 900 per day on average !
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icebird757
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 16):
Well that was a smart business plan, wasn't it?

Well when this space was acquired 10 years ago, there was no plan for a second a/c type so they had no idea at that time they would need more space. Overall, as a station here, we need more space for MX, parts, and crewmembers as a whole.
LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
 
SuperCaravelle
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 5:44 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 14):
The E190 is 2/3 the size of the 320 (in terms of B6 seat configuration) but does not burn 2/3 the fuel or have 2/3 the mx xosts or have 2/3 the flight crew operating cost.


So. . . The plane has higher seat costs than the 320. This is a problem on B6s leiure routes which tend to generate lower yields

Depends. They can charge a higher price for an E190 service, as they have less supply, at least in the short run (until another airline offers the same destinations from the same origin (city)).

Also, if you cannot fill up an A320, an E190 is still more efficient, despite the lower efficiency per seat. The A380 has the lowest cost per seat but isn't the most efficient on many routes.

[Edited 2012-05-13 10:44:30]
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Sun May 13, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 20):
I should've clarified... No 190 maintenance base.

B6 has its own MX in both LGB and SFO (it was OAK instead of SFO when the E190 was flying on the west coast). MX techs were trained for the E190 and there were A LOT of E190 parts in LGB...I would know, I'm the person that shipped them all back. Skids and skids worth:


Quoting ICEBIRD757 (Reply 15):
Actually we have a MX base here at LGB, the problem with the E-190 out here was that we did not have the space to keep all parts necessary for the 190.

Everything was fitting just fine with the exception of some of the largest items like spare engines/APUs/Cowls, but the vast majority of support items there was plenty of space for.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 8):

-LGB wouldn't allow the E190 to be considered for the commuter slots. B6 figured it'd be a waste of a regular slot when they could use it for a 320.

I really think that LGB is boxing themselves in with these tough restrictions, and they could've been much more of a hub for B6 if they were even just a little more flexible. I would not be surprised to see more LGB ops slowly transition to LAX.

That's a big one right there, not being granted the capability to use the E190 in the "commuter slots". B6 already opened LAX and moved a lot of the TRANSCON activity to LAX. If the E190 was allowed to use the commuter slots, I think you would see A LOT of "connecting the dots" with B6 and the E190....and maybe we would have needed the extra planes that were on order.
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Viscount724
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 4):
What is the advantage of the E190 vs A319?

Landing fees in the U.S. are based on maximum landing weight (maximum takeoff weight in most of the rest of the world), so those fees should be significantly lower for the E190 which is much lighter than the A319 (both landing and takeoff weights are roughly 40,000 lbs. lower for the E190).
 
N757ST
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):

A vast vast majority of LGB ops are general aviation operations on 25L/R. 30/12 is not even close to busy.. I fly the airbus I there almost weekly. It's quite similar to DAB in that regaurd... A busy airport in theory but not reality.

[Edited 2012-05-13 23:16:02]
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 12:55 pm

"A vast vast majority of LGB ops are general aviation operations on 25L/R. 30/12 is not even close to busy.. I fly the airbus I there almost weekly. It's quite similar to DAB in that regaurd... A busy airport in theory but not reality."


The funny thing is, if they had allowed B6 to use those commuter slots for the 190, B6 would not be at LAX. They would have a full-fledged west coast hub in LGB.

At the end of the day, who does it hurt most ... B6 and the airlines or the city of Long Beach which could use the economic activity?
 
richierich
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
The funny thing is, if they had allowed B6 to use those commuter slots for the 190, B6 would not be at LAX. They would have a full-fledged west coast hub in LGB.

That's not a given - B6 has been courting the business market more and more, and while LGB works as a great alternative to LAX (I happen to prefer the former to the latter), one has to be realistic and know that many biz folks will only consider LAX when going anywhere in Southern California.

But I do agree that things could have been very different for LGB had they exempted the E190. I wondered if that is why B6 sent them out west a few years back, in order to try and convince the local officials that "Hey! These planes are pretty quiet, see?!"
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BOS2LAF
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
or the city of Long Beach which could use the economic activity?

We have a winner.

My gut says that once the growth in BOS levels off and after SJU does the same, we will see B6 make a bigger push out west, and in my own opinion, LGB will suffer the same fate as OAK.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 3:52 pm

Agreed. I could see a full push at LAX and LGB being drawn down to a few transcons to BOS and JFK.

Then all the NIMBYs can sleep quietly
 
AADC10
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
I dont know what airport you are looking at, but in 2011 LGB had 311,577 movements.

Most of that number must be GA or something since the slot restrictions do not add up to anywhere near that number. If there is a capacity problem anywhere at LGB, it is in the terminal.
 
Av8tor
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 4:37 pm

The people of LGB are shooting themselves in the foot. The E190 is quieter than most "commuter" jets. They want the service, but they won't change the stupid law. I hope B6 pulls out of LGB completely and moves the entire operation to LAX.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Mon May 14, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting N757ST (Reply 26):
A vast vast majority of LGB ops are general aviation operations on 25L/R. 30/12 is not even close to busy.. I fly the airbus I there almost weekly. It's quite similar to DAB in that regaurd... A busy airport in theory but not reality.
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 31):
Most of that number must be GA or something since the slot restrictions do not add up to anywhere near that number. If there is a capacity problem anywhere at LGB, it is in the terminal.

Yes bulk was GA, with about 30,000 being air-carrier.

The point is, LGB is hardly some sleepy little airport. Its a quite busy facility, (one of the busiest in the state) and the effects on the community are pronounceable. Each movement cumulative adds up to one big eye sore for residents.

Regarding the terminal, there is a renovation project ongoing where a new concourse will be built.

Quoting Av8tor (Reply 32):
The people of LGB are shooting themselves in the foot. The E190 is quieter than most "commuter" jets. They want the service, but they won't change the stupid law.

Why are the people shooting themselves in the foot? They already have a very busy airport as neighbor. The goal is to reduce community impacts, not increase them.

And the E190 can be louder than other authorized "commuter" aircraft. For instance both authorized CRJ200 and EMB-145 have lower CNEL ratings.

And its not just noise. Its things like vehicular activity. Bigger planes = more passengers = more traffic
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jmacias34
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Tue May 15, 2012 2:27 am

Does jetBlue have any financial investment into the modernization of the Long Beach Airport?
 
LAXintl
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Wed May 16, 2012 10:33 pm

Outside of long term leases, and ongoing operating fees, no JetBlue does not have direct investment in the facilities at LGB.

They did however push hard for the improvements, including CEO repeatedly meeting with civic leaders.
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nycdave
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RE: Future Of JetBlue's E-190 Fleet

Thu May 17, 2012 12:57 am

I'd imagine they've got to be more efficient than the A319/320/321 on the short-haul routes in the northeast out of JFK and BOS, which are more likely to draw business travel, as well... SYR, ROC, BUF, ALB, BTV, PWM...