A320ajm
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Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 4:37 pm

Breaking on Sky News...

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16228034

I thought all aircraft were protected against lightning? Any ideas what might have been the reason for the return?

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A320ajm
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falkerker
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 4:44 pm

AFAIK, they are all protected, it was probably just a precautionary measure. It's the President of France, after all.
 
A320ajm
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting falkerker (Reply 1):
It's the President of France, after all.

Surely it is the same safety measures though regardless of who is flying on the aircraft....

Regards,
A320ajm
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dirtyfrankd
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 4:57 pm

What kind of aircraft was it?
 
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larshjort
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting A320ajm (Thread starter):
I thought all aircraft were protected against lightning?

Aircraft are protected so lightning strikes do the least amount of damage to the aircraft, but you will always end up with a entry hole where the the lightning hit the aircraft.

/Lars
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BE77
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 2):
Surely it is the same safety measures though regardless of who is flying on the aircraft....

Generally the same for sure.
The aircraft are 'protected' in so much as a strike should not make one crash or explode, but it doesn't mean there is no damage. Parts can fall off, holes burned through, wires get fried, and all sorts of weird and wonderful things can happen that leave the airplane flying, but make it not properly airworthy.
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dirtyfrankd
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 5:14 pm

Does anybody know whether it was his A330 that was struck, or whether it was one of the older A319s or Dassault Falcons?
 
GCT64
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 6):
Does anybody know whether it was his A330 that was struck, or whether it was one of the older A319s or Dassault Falcons?

The BBC news was showing a Falcon 7X, but not clear if that was the original aircraft (that then returned) or the second (replacement) aircraft.
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N14AZ
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 5:18 pm

I knew Merkel would send some flashes into his direction but this really goes too far!!!  
 
columba
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 8):

I knew Merkel would send some flashes into his direction but this really goes too far!!!  

Where is the like button  
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 5:41 pm

There was no lightning only a "risk of lightning". The Falcon 7X went back to Villacoublay after which Mr Hollande boarded a Falcon 900 and started back to Berlin again.

Le Point is a serious publication. I don't put them into doubt.

Quote
Le Falcon 7X a fait demi-tour alors qu'il était en route pour Berlin, de peur d'être frappé par la foudre. Un front de cumulonimbus traverse, en effet, l'est de la France. Les risques étaient pourtant quasi nuls
English:
The Falcon 7X made a turnaround while it was on its way to Berlin by fear of being struck by lightning. A cumulo-nimbus front crossed the East of France. However the risks were almost nil.

http://www.lepoint.fr/politique/avio...cautions-15-05-2012-1461835_20.php

I looked at my own airport live departures and arrivals online. I did not see any of the Air France or Lufthansa flights headed to all the airports in Germany having any delays about that same time or before or after.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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Aesma
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 5:57 pm

Reports are indeed contradictory. But here, we know about planes. If the 7X hadn't been hit, then it wouldn't have made a U-turn, but merely a detour. Furthermore, there wouldn't have been a change of plane. François Hollande took an older Falcon 900 for the successful trip.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A320ajm
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
English:
The Falcon 7X made a turnaround while it was on its way to Berlin by fear of being struck by lightning. A cumulo-nimbus front crossed the East of France. However the risks were almost nil.

Are certain aircraft better equipped to deal with lightning/bad weather as this suggests? Or is there another reason?

A320ajm
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Aesma
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 12):
Are certain aircraft better equipped to deal with lightning/bad weather as this suggests? Or is there another reason?

The Falcon 7X is very similar to the Falcon 900 so I doubt there is much difference in the way they handle lightning. And the 7X being newer it would have benefited from things learned with previous aircraft, including possibly tighter regulations.

No, the reason there was a change is that the 7X (dubbed Carla One) has been hit.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
No, the reason there was a change is that the 7X (dubbed Carla One) has been hit.

Many sources saying different things. I looked at the Ministry of Defense website there is no official report on the flight to Berlin.

Le Monde and Liberation the two most notorious left wing news sites are not reporting the flight either.

Le Parisien, the widely read Parisian newspaper has this information
http://www.leparisien.fr/election-pr...elon-jouyet-15-05-2012-2001104.php

Quote:
l'avion du président de la République a été... touché par la foudre au bout de quatre minutes de vol. Il a dû faire demi-tour et prendre un avion de secours
English:
the presidential aircraft was... hit by lightning after 4 minutes of flight. He (the President) had to catch a substitute aircraft.

The Falcon 7X can't have reached a high altitude after only 4 minutes in flight. I see them taking off from Nice airport all the time when I am there.

These jets all belong to the Ministry of Defense. The Falcons are based at Villacoublay (an air base West of Paris).
http://www.ba107.air.defense.gouv.fr/
The A-330 stays at an air base in Evreux. The two Falcon 7X were bought new during Nicolas Sarkozy's presidency.

  

[Edited 2012-05-15 11:39:39]
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
A320ajm
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
The Falcon 7X can't have reached a high altitude after only 4 minutes in flight. I see them taking off from Nice airport all the time when I am there.

With all due respect, I don't see how you seeing them take off can lead you to deduce they can't be high after only 4 minutes in flight. The Dassault website states the rate of climb of the Falcon 7x is 3000 ft/min. That would be 12,000 feet after 4 minutes. I'd say that was a fairly high altitude. Although I don't really see the relevance of this to the story unless you are referring to the height of cumulonimbus clouds, but if I remember my Meteorology classes correctly, they can form from around 500-13,000 feet and I'm sure up to 70,000 feet in some extreme cases.

Regards,
A320ajm
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LOWS
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 8:55 pm

I had just read on Twitter on the way home that it was an A320. Is this true or the Dassault?

Does it concern anyone that he was going to a conference on Greece and was struck by lightning?
 
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 8:58 pm

Mai bine să-ţi fie rău decît să-ţi pară rău.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 10:25 pm

I studied one year at a technical school parallel to Villacoublay airbase's runway (and live under the path of the runway) so I'm used to seeing them. They can climb for sure, especially with a light load.

But of course lightning strikes can happen at any altitude, even 0 feet !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
airproxx
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Tue May 15, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
François Hollande took an older Falcon 900 for the successful trip.

Good old metal never dies!
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Francoflier
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 7:39 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 16):
Does it concern anyone that he was going to a conference on Greece and was struck by lightning?

If that isn't a sign that he shouldn't try to mess with the policy already set by Merkel and Sarkozy, I don't know what it is...
 
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 7:49 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 20):
If that isn't a sign that he shouldn't try to mess with the policy already set by Merkel and Sarkozy, I don't know what it is...

absolutely, but I rather think that it was

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 8):
I knew Merkel would send some flashes into his direction but this really goes too far!!!

ZEUS sending the message.....

 

Anyway, nice start.

BTW, for dinner they had fresh asparagus with sauce Hollandaise....
 
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chieft
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 9:32 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 8):
I knew Merkel would send some flashes into his direction but this really goes too far!!!

Well, heaven cried and it was a wet day anyway, when Mr. Hollande had its introduction as president. Thus, the flashes were then logical, weren't they? ;-D


Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
chieft
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 9:36 am

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 3):
What kind of aircraft was it?

A german newspaper showed this photo and the article said, that this Falcon was the aircraft affected by the lightning strike:


Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 11:39 am

What's the big deal? Lightning hits planes all the time.

Planes are designed/built to take lightning strikes. I have been in at least a dozen of them in my life once was in really crazy weather on a United flight. The captains/pilots kept the airplanes flying. There was no turn around back to the airports.

Lightning strikes on airplanes are nothing unusual, and generally there is no damage. This is not news. It happens all the time. They only made it a big deal as it was the new French president's inaugural day followed by a flight to Berlin. I wonder what it cost to the taxpayers to charter a 7X and a 900 for this one trip. Can't he just fly on Air France same as everybody else? They can block the front cabin for him and his people.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
GCT64
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 11:57 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 24):
I wonder what it cost to the taxpayers to charter a 7X and a 900 for this one trip

The 7X and the 900 are both part of the French presidential/VIP fleet (which is much larger than just those two aircraft and extends up to an A330), so they weren't chartered as such.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 25):
The 7X and the 900 are both part of the French presidential/VIP fleet (which is much larger than just those two aircraft and extends up to an A330), so they weren't chartered as such.

This is true but same as for Air Force One they all cost money to run. They don't fly on water tanks, no remote control, they need ground staff, maintenance, fuel, security, pilots, ATC, cabin attendants, meals and drinks and more even.

France is not Monaco. Prince Albert pays for his own Falcon 900 himself -- formerly used by his father Prince Rainier III.

The French Presidential fleet belongs to the Ministry of Devense. All incurring costs are covered by tax payers money - not by any sponsors/private money.

How much is an hour of Falcon 7X and how much is an hour of Falcon 900 if chartered with onboard luxury service?
Any idea?

I pay my taxes to France therefore I should be allowed to know how much these Presidential flights are costing with all the officials travel expanditures.

       
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
PanHAM
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
I pay my taxes to France therefore I should be allowed to know how much these Presidential flights are costing with all the officials travel expanditures.

you should be able to read that in the national budget which is public domain and can be viewed by each and every citizen. Might be a bit difficult if France still has the cameralistic version but with a little bit of time.....


The other point is security. A corporate jet is a business tool and requiring a President or Prime Minister to charter commercial raises a couple of problems. Availability is the least, Security is the most. Take this little example, a falcon which is chartered is hit by lightning. The jet had been thoroughly mchecked by the secret service for explosives, surveillance tools etc. . The jet hjas to return to base and an alternate must be hired. Takes hours to check the aircraft out and trip is cancelled. Grand blamage pour le President de la Republique.


The corporate jets are availoable when needed, they are operated by the airforce they are kept clean of contraband and the pilots have a military career and don't need to be undergoing a background check. The President has his used environment, his communication equipment with the usual high security.

A functioning transport brigade actually saves money over flying commercially.
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Aesma
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
Prince Albert pays for his own Falcon 900 himself

You're saying that implying he earned this money by some legitimate way.

And it's a bit rich of you, after supporting Sarko and Carla, the ones that actually made us buy the Falcons and a freaking A330 !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BrouAviation
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 24):
Can't he just fly on Air France same as everybody else? They can block the front cabin for him and his people.

I am sure he costs of the tickets, the security measurements around the flights at the airports of departure and arrival and all the other consequences of your proposal far outweigh the costs of a returntrip to Berlin on one of the owned Falcons.

What would you say if he missed his first important international conference because the AF A320 he was supposed to be on went AOG for whatever reason? You'd think AF would bring in another A320 as quick as the airforce arranged another Falcon?
He is not 'as everybody else'. He is the elected CEO of the Republique Francaise company so to speak, which had a turnover of about 2145 billion EUR last year.
Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 28):
You're saying that implying he earned this money by some legitimate way.

Family money is legitimate. Prince Albert's travels and personal jets maintenance come out of his own pocket, his personal security is reduced to a driver and a bodyguard while the French president and government travel are costing Millions always from taxpayer's pockets.

With 32 members in the new government - not counting the Prime Minister I can't imagine what it is going to cost for the French taxpayers. His whole campaign motto was that he would forget austerity and start spending again so here we go!

From today on, Hollande's team will make miracles. Just like Jesus multiplied the breads and fishes. Hollande and his government will get the European Central Bank chief to multiply Euros by the several Billions for France only. The deficit will have all vanished in no time as if it never existed. In a year time Hollande will claim to whoever wants to hear him he is the New Messiah, the Saviour that has cometh for all Mankind.

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
falkerker
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
Family money is legitimate. Prince Albert's travels and personal jets maintenance come out of his own pocket,

Yeah, the money he earns by his hard work every day...
Presidents need security, specially if your the President of the French Republic, his meetings are exceedingly more important (and hence need whatever means of transportation is necessary) than Prince Albert´s (one is discussing the Euro policy, the other, probably the dress policy for the F1 GP)

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 29):
He is the elected CEO of the Republique Francaise company so to speak, which had a turnover of about 2145 billion EUR last year.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
His whole campaign motto was that he would forget austerity and start spending again so here we go!

I´m sure Miss Le Pen´s motto of Racial Superiority is far better, as proven by some austrian bloke with a moustache some decades ago   
 
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breiz
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Wed May 16, 2012 7:56 pm

The reason I have heard, is that, although planes are structurally safe to sustain lightning strike, the electronics on board may be affected.
As a safety precaution, it was therefore decided to turn back to Villacoublay to have the plane checked. It was however faster to use the spare Falcon 900 to transport President Hollande.
The Falcon 7X was only 4 minutes into her flight so the return did not take long.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Thu May 17, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 24):
Lightning strikes on airplanes are nothing unusual, and generally there is no damage.

Fatal crashes have also been caused by lightning strikes, including this Pan Am 707 in 1963 that killed all 81 aboard. The lightning strike ignited fuel fapors in a fuel tank and caused an explosion which resulted in disintegration of much of one wing. I'm sure that's not the only crash involving lightning.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19631208-0
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Fri May 18, 2012 11:37 am

Hollande is on board the A330 today on the way to the G8 and NATO summits. Also travelling with him on the A330 are his concubine and a number of government members.

They did not want to fly there on the Falcon 7X as it would have looked like a dwarf near to Air Force One so they chose to fly on the A330 (says the article). It seems contradictory that they might want to sell the A330 if they take such considerations into context.

I have got no time to translate the whole text. This is the link to the article.

Should Hollande sell Sarko-Force One?
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/hollande-do...endre-air-sarko-one-082400699.html

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
BE77
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RE: Hollande's Plane Delay - Lightning

Fri May 18, 2012 1:14 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 30):
From today on, Hollande's team will make miracles. Just like Jesus multiplied the breads and fishes. Hollande and his government will get the European Central Bank chief to multiply Euros by the several Billions for France only. The deficit will have all vanished in no time as if it never existed. In a year time Hollande will claim to whoever wants to hear him he is the New Messiah, the Saviour that has cometh for all Mankind.

Good luck with that  
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
looked like a dwarf near to Air Force One so they chose to fly on the A330

Should get the sales team from Airbus pretty excited - sounds like there is another A380 order coming in soon.
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