bristolflyer
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Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Fri May 18, 2012 8:51 pm

I have only ever sat in the front part of an airliner once and I noticed how different the sound was compared to being in the middle/back. Hardly any engine noise on takeoff then a lot of air noise as we gained speed. Anyone else noticed this? Seems like the pax at the front (the people paying the big bucks) may have a noisier ride than the people at the back (the cheap people like me).
Fortune favours the brave
 
ikramerica
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Fri May 18, 2012 8:52 pm

Yes, front is low on engine noise (not on vibration though), and on a widebody, not a lot of wind noise either. Narrowbody you are closer to the nose and hear more. But to me the loudest noise during cruise is usually the A/C system anyway.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Mike909
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Fri May 18, 2012 9:08 pm

Recently sat in the nose of a 747. Significantly quieter than all other parts.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 1):
Narrowbody you are closer to the nose and hear more.

It is still noticeably quiet at the front of the aircraft. Next time you're at the front of a 737, A320 series aircraft, just have a quick walk from the front to the back.
 
AA737-823
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Fri May 18, 2012 9:30 pm

I recently sat in row 40 of a Swiss A330-300, powered by Rolls Royce. Even at cruise altitude, the exhaust noise was quite loud during step climbs. Once things calmed down and leveled out, though, it was a pretty quiet ride.

But I far prefer the buzzsaw sound of fan blade in business class to the exploding exhaust sound of row 980 seat Z!!!!!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Fri May 18, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 2):
It is still noticeably quiet at the front of the aircraft. Next time you're at the front of a 737, A320 series aircraft, just have a quick walk from the front to the back.

Just responding to the air movement factor. In a widebody (other than a 747), even in 1A you are further from the raydome than in a 737. Usually large galley, larger entry doors, crew rest areas, etc. ahead of you. And widebodies tend to have more insulation and larger expanses of undisturbed sheet metal/CF on the skin to allow for better flow.
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B6JFKH81
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 19, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 1):
Yes, front is low on engine noise

I have found on my flights on the A320, E190 and B737 that forward of the wing you do get that buzzsaw sound though which you don't hear overwing or aft of the wing. It could be quite the annoying sound sometimes. Never had the chance to sit too far forward in a widebody though so I can't compare.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 19, 2012 1:58 pm

I've found the flight deck to be very loud just from the rush of the wind.
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penguins
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 19, 2012 2:43 pm

I found sitting in any seat on an AA 757 during takeoff and climb to be excruciatingly loud.
 
B2468
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 19, 2012 3:09 pm

Is there a breakdown on the sources of cabin noise? To me, most of the noise seems to come from the blowers up in the ceiling. I remember on a flight a few years ago, about 5 minutes or so after takeoff, the blowers up in the ceiling turned off for about 10-20 seconds, and the cabin was filled with this very pleasant, relaxing hum from what I assume was the engines (I was on an A346, sitting just aft of the wings). When the blowers turned back on, though, the cabin was again filled with the headache-inducing white noise.

I once sat in the front (I believe row 10) of a CA 74E (reg. B-2468, my namesake), and didn't notice any difference in cabin noise...the white noise from the blowers seemed to me to be the worst.

[Edited 2012-05-19 08:18:46]
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ghifty
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 19, 2012 6:24 pm

I don't think the cabin is discernibly louder or quieter in different parts of the plane, per say. It's just you hear different noises. Forward of the engines, I assume you hear the buzzsaw. Aft of the wings, you hear the jetblast.. which one's more pleasant is entirely subjective.
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Mike909
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 19, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting penguins (Reply 7):

I found sitting in any seat on an AA 757 during takeoff and climb to be excruciatingly loud.

Yes I also find 757s louder too.
Never been on an A380 yet, but are they noticeably quieter?
 
bristolflyer
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 19, 2012 11:30 pm

Quoting penguins (Reply 7):
I found sitting in any seat on an AA 757 during takeoff and climb to be excruciatingly loud.

I have often noticed that 757s are quite easy to distinguish (from the ground) due to the buzzsaw sound. Something to do with the design of the engines?
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sun May 20, 2012 12:38 am

I 've found that the noisiest seat on the plane is usually the one next to the couple with the crying baby   

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 10):
Never been on an A380 yet, but are they noticeably quieter?

Yes, I did find it to be quite.....I've done only one flight on a SQ 380, sitting on the upper deck, behind the wing......pretty quite and smooth ride......
 
spacecadet
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sun May 20, 2012 4:47 am

I'd rather have wind noise than engine noise, personally, but it is subjective. Engine noise has a particular "bassy" note to it that can be really tiring over a long flight. I know when I used to fly 744's JFK-NRT a lot, I'd step off the plane and literally feel dizzy and have a splitting headache pretty much every time (I fly economy, so in the back). It's like being subjected to listening to someone who's outfitted their car with one of those subwoofers designed for no other purpose than to annoy everyone in a 2 mile radius for 14 hours straight. Now on 77W's, which are a bit quieter generally and definitely have less engine noise, I feel fine at the end of a flight on this route. And I can sleep on 77W's, which I could never do on 744's due partly to the noise.
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CanadianNorth
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sun May 20, 2012 4:52 am

Definately a difference in noise on the aircraft I work on. With the good old 748s sitting in the jumpseat or first few passenger rows (assuming it's in full pax configuration and not combi) the scream of the darts can get be incredibly loud, meanwhile the back couple rows you generally hear nothing more than a relaxing hum for most of the trip.
Way to go, nice and slow, never late, 748!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sun May 20, 2012 5:41 am

There is a reason premium seats are put up front. Noise has quite a bit to do with it.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 1):
But to me the loudest noise during cruise is usually the A/C system anyway.

Not in the back of an MD-80. I love engines... I cannot stand JT8D noise in the back of a T-tail.

Quoting penguins (Reply 7):
I found sitting in any seat on an AA 757 during takeoff and climb to be excruciatingly loud.

I've found the AA 757 to be far more pleasant than last third of the AA MD-80. *Any* seat on the 757. I prefer the newer 738s to the other two aft Y cabin; or the front cabin of any... But usually I'm back in coach.  
Quoting spacecadet (Reply 13):
I feel fine at the end of a flight on this route. And I can sleep on 77W's, which I could never do on 744's due partly to the noise.

I would agree. Certain planes are easier to sleep on throughout the plane than others.

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 12):
I 've found that the noisiest seat on the plane is usually the one next to the couple with the crying baby  

Baby noise isn't that bad. Its the boorish drunk who thinks they're interesting and wants to argue the whole flight.

Lightsaber
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Mike909
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sun May 20, 2012 9:08 am

If it seems Boeing's newer widebodies like 77W are getting quieter, would love to hear noise of 787!
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sun May 20, 2012 9:29 am

Quoting bristolflyer (Thread starter):
Hardly any engine noise on takeoff then a lot of air noise as we gained speed. Anyone else noticed this?

Noise definitely varies, significantly, depending on where you are in the aircraft.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 6):

I've found the flight deck to be very loud just from the rush of the wind.

This tends to be a side effect of planar (flat) flight deck windows. Airplanes with smoothly fared flight deck windows (e.g. 787) tend to have much less wind noise in the flight deck.

Quoting B2468 (Reply 8):

Is there a breakdown on the sources of cabin noise?

The OEM's absolutely have it; it's part of their contractual guarantees. However, I've never seen it published anywhere the rest of us can see it.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 9):
Forward of the engines, I assume you hear the buzzsaw.

This should only be a problem on takeoff; most engines that I've experienced don't generate buzzsaw noise once they're down to cruise thrust.

Quoting Mike909 (Reply 16):
If it seems Boeing's newer widebodies like 77W are getting quieter, would love to hear noise of 787!

787 is great (not A380 great based on the annecdotes I've heard, but great none the less). From front to back the major noise sources I've experienced are:
flight deck/forward cabin: very quiet, primarily wind and ECS noise
mid-cabin: systems noise (you're right above the center hydraulic pumps and ECS packs)
aft-cabin: wind noise and jet blast
aft end: systems noise (the galley chillers are in the aft cargo bay)

Tom.
 
Jackbr
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sun May 20, 2012 10:48 am

If you watch YouTube videos of 707 take offs and landings, the engine noise is so loud the buzz saw can be heard even aft of the wing

I'm curious to know, did all 707DC- 8s etc have the buzz saw/engine whine noise far down the cabin on take off, or was it the standard exhaust rumble you'd hear on, say, a 767
 
taieridrome
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sun May 20, 2012 10:57 am

Sat in the back of an SQ 777 from SIN to CHC last year and I dont think I have ever experienced a more noisy flight than that one. Have travelled tens of thousands of k's on many different aircraft and this one flight stands out above all others. Have been in the rear section on many flights.
 
masi1157
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Mon May 21, 2012 1:11 am

Yes, there is a breakdown of noise sources in A/C cabins. The manufacturers know it, at least partly, but the airlines usually don't. I could tell you alot about that breakdown in Airbus A/C, but I won't. A few words though: During cruise the air conditioning system is inaudible in most of the cabin (not quite on A320), except in mid cabin above the mixing unit. Other systems are also audible only very locally. Front cabin is dominated by high frequency broadband turbulent boundary layer noise (what others calles "wind noise"), aft cabin (especially on twins) by low frequency broadband engines' exhaust jet noise.



Regards, masi1157
 
ikramerica
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Mon May 21, 2012 3:19 am

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 11):
I have often noticed that 757s are quite easy to distinguish (from the ground) due to the buzzsaw sound. Something to do with the design of the engines?

RR engines on 757 are very loud.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
Not in the back of an MD-80. I love engines... I cannot stand JT8D noise in the back of a T-tail.

Why I never, ever sit back there.

Quoting masi1157 (Reply 20):
During cruise the air conditioning system is inaudible in most of the cabin (not quite on A320)

Certainly not on the A320, 737, 757, early 767s, etc. The same sound is heard once they pressurize on the ground.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ZaphodB
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Mon May 21, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 18):
I'm curious to know, did all 707DC- 8s etc have the buzz saw/engine whine noise far down the cabin on take off, or was it the standard exhaust rumble you'd hear on, say, a 767

Sadly I never rode on the DC-8 but I did fly the 707 and lots of VC-10s ... buzz saw no. Loud and much more high pitched than what you hear nowadays even on a NB. The closest thing you will get to that nowadays is sitting in the back of a DC-9.

I like the front end of the MD-8x / MD-9x - very quiet.
 
masi1157
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Mon May 21, 2012 4:35 am

@ikramerica: I can't quote with the browser of my cell phone. But you noticed that I talked about "in cruise"? However, what do you mean with "pressurize on ground"? The cabin is not pressurized on ground, but of course you hear the ECS system and ventilation on ground. After all it is >10dB(A) quieter then, than during cruise.

And if you didn't hear buzzsaw noise on DC8, B707 etc., no wonder! It will only occur when the blade tips are supersonic.


Regards, masi1157

[Edited 2012-05-20 21:40:09]
 
hoons90
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Mon May 21, 2012 4:48 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 9):
It's just you hear different noises. Forward of the engines, I assume you hear the buzzsaw. Aft of the wings, you hear the jetblast.. which one's more pleasant is entirely subjective.

Definitely the buzzsaw!

Here's a video I took of it last year, simply amazing sound and it's too bad that my camera doesn't record better quality sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8E4pxMDA2s#t=1m42s
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Viscount724
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Mon May 21, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
There is a reason premium seats are put up front. Noise has quite a bit to do with it.

And why propeller aircraft with 2-class configurations had F class at the rear, as far from the props as possible.
 
CargoIT
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Tue May 22, 2012 3:14 pm

No one has mentioned the sound of a DC10 at takeoff. Buzzsaw doesn't quite describe the sound. The sound was more like 3 Detroit 6-71s.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Tue May 22, 2012 7:29 pm

I always fly with a set of Bose Headphones to cancel out the noise,from experience, however anything from the wing backwards is noticable even with them. Most of my flying has been on 777's,but agree that the 757 with RR engines is
really loud.
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warden145
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Tue May 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting CargoIT (Reply 26):
No one has mentioned the sound of a DC10 at takeoff. Buzzsaw doesn't quite describe the sound. The sound was more like 3 Detroit 6-71s.

Never been on a DC-10, but I've spent enough time around 6-71's to say WOW!!!
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bikerthai
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Wed May 23, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 5):
do get that buzzsaw sound though
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 17):


Noise definitely varies, significantly, depending on where you are in the aircraft.

  

In the front of the aircraft you do get the buzzsaw which comes from the resonance waves coming off the fan blades.
The engine acoustic treatment (in the fan cowl) is supposed to help kill these waves, but they can't handle all the resonance frequencies as the fan changes RPM.

The buzzsaw is extra difficult to dampen out. The standard fiberglass insulation won't do the job.

As others have noted, the front do get aerodynamic noise. Also doors are extra noisy.

In front, specially in the business and first class region, additional insulation often are added for the high paying passenger.

Some other noise (specially over the wing box) comes from vibration coming from the engines though the wings. You can't do much about this.

The jet noise behind the engine is a broad band type spectrum noise. I think that is why the sound canceling headphones have problems with it.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
baje427
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Wed May 23, 2012 5:03 pm

Compared to the A320 series the 757 is louder but to me its not that loud I found it quieter than the 737-800.

Quoting penguins (Reply 7):
737
 
softrally
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Wed May 23, 2012 5:18 pm

I've been on multiple 772ER (PW engines) flights recently. I always sat at the back, about row 40~50. They were all fairly noisy flights. As I walked through the plane, I noticed that it was much quieter in the middle and in the front. The A/C in the 777 is very noisy compared to other aircraft.
Flown on: 738, 744, 762/763, 772, 77W, 788, A306, A318/319/320/321, A332/333, E145, E190, CRJ700
 
masi1157
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 26, 2012 12:19 am

@bikerthai: Buzzsaw noise actually has nothing with resonances. It is a sound composed of the frequency of rotation of the fan (not! the blade passing frequency!) and many multiples of it. Not only does it sound like a buzzsaw, also the spectrum and the time signal look like that. It is only generated when the blade tips are supersonic.

Btw, I never heard of "fiberglass insulation" in the nacelle inlet treatment. But yes, most silencers have problems with the low frequency portion (50-80Hz and higher harmonics) of buzzsaw noise.


Regards, masi1157
 
iberiadc852
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 26, 2012 1:29 am

Once i flew in a brand new IB-346 in the very first seats in Business, so you can imagine very far from the engines, and when it began to raise the nose I had to laugh because such a quiet and long elevation I just felt I was in a modern lift, I couldn't believe it. I imagine 346 is quiet all over the cabin, but I think there must be big different in such long plane between the first seats and just after the engines.
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
trent1000
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RE: Noise Difference In Different Parts Of Plane

Sat May 26, 2012 1:41 am

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 12):
I 've found that the noisiest seat on the plane is usually the one next to the couple with the crying baby

Next to? That would be about 4-6 rows in any direction.

About the A380 cabin noise:

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 12):
Yes, I did find it to be quite.....

quite what??   I've found found the A380 to be very quiet.  

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