aio86
Topic Author
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Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sat May 19, 2012 11:35 pm

I'm curious why ET's ADD-IAD flight is routed through FCO. As far as I can tell, you cannot purchase a seat on the FCO-IAD route and they have a stand alone ADD-FCO segment. If they are simply refueling, it seems like FCO is a bit circuitous compared to a couple other large airports in Western Europe (such as LIS, MAD). Anyone care to share some history of the route? Is it exactly because ET already has a ground crew handling their flights at FCO?

Any idea of this route will be able to go nonstop with the 787? Or is there too much demand on the route for the aircraft?

Thanks!
 
timz
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sat May 19, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting aio86 (Thread starter):
it seems like FCO is a bit circuitous compared to a couple other large airports in Western Europe (such as LIS, MAD).

Total distance is less via FCO than via MAD or LIS.
 
aio86
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sat May 19, 2012 11:58 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 1):

Hi timz, how do you calculate that to be the case. When I plugged this into the great circle mapper it seems to be a longer total routing via FCO. What other resources exist to check these things.

Thanks.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 12:39 am

Possibly because the flight benefits from additional feed due to the relationship between Italy and Ethiopia? Just a guess, but it is interesting that it's Italy and Italy for a time colonized Ethiopia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italians_of_Ethiopia
 
yeogeo
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 1:24 am

Quoting aio86 (Thread starter):
I'm curious why ET's ADD-IAD flight is routed through FCO.

Because Addis Ababa Bole International Airport is a high-altitude airport (2,334 m / 7,656 ft), a/c performance is limited outbound.

The eastbound nonstop is the world's 50th longest reg. sched. flight currently.
From World's Longest thread:
6251nm IADº-ADDº (see footnote ‡) Ethiopian ˇ 77Lx5
footnote ‡: 6251nm ET operates nonstop eastbound only. Westbound: (ET 500) ADD-FCO-IAD

World's Longest Flights, 16 May Updates (by yeogeo May 9 2012 in Aviation Polls)

yeo
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mel
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 1:46 am

I was wondering the same about ADD-YYZ starting next month. I thought the 77L would have enough range, but I guess the killer is the elevation of ADD airport.
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AF022
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 5:05 am

When I checked great circle mapper, direct path to IAD went right over Libya. Are the skies still closed there? That could be the reason for operating via FCO instead of another station..

[Edited 2012-05-19 22:06:14]
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 6:01 am

FCO is one of their stations as well, so most probably makes more sense to stop there.
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Pe@rson
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 6:49 am

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 7):
FCO is one of their stations as well, so most probably makes more sense to stop there.

That was my initial reaction, too, not least because FCO is ET's most-served European destinations by weekly frequency.
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LIPZ
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 7:40 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 6):
When I checked great circle mapper, direct path to IAD went right over Libya. Are the skies still closed there? That could be the reason for operating via FCO instead of another station..

That's not the reason.

ET stops in Rome on the way to Washington since long before the 'Arab Spring' in Libya and in the MENA region in general.
Before the 77L joined the fleet, ET used to fly with 763 and used to stop in FCO both ways to/from IAD. There also was a time when they flew to EWR (early '00s), always routed though FCO (if I remember right, routing was ADD-FCO-EWR-IAD-EWR-FCO-ADD).
At the time they also attempted to request 5th freedom rights between Italy and USA but they were never granted.

News of these days ET will fly to Toronto at the same way they fly to Washington, stopping in Rome westbound.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 4:14 pm

Yes, it is said that the flight to YYZ will stop in FCO. Ethiopia has a long history with Italy, but weren't ET blacklisted from Europe before?

How long will these flights last? There are a lot of new immigrants and probably more on the way with these flights. Maybe they also need the stop in FCO for weight restrictions as well?
 
robertlondon
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 4:52 pm

Having worked for ET in London (a few years ago now !) it's my experience that this service routes via FCO exactly as LHCVG mentions.

Historically Italy and Ethiopia have strong ties and there is a sizeable Ethiopian community in Italy.
The IAD service is very much a diplomatic service (for obvious reasons) but is operated as an extension of the FCO service. As far as I'm aware IAD has never had a direct service from ADD , because of the operational challenges flying out of ADD but also because even with the large diplomatic and UN presence in Ethiopia there is insufficient traffic to warrant this. Perhaps with the introduction of the 787's this will change.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting robertlondon (Reply 11):
The IAD service is very much a diplomatic service

Despite the Washington, DC, area having the greatest amount of Ethiopians in the USA and, probably, North America, and the many connection opportunities to Central and Eastern Africa for which its IAD services are timed? I'd have thought demand for ADD-IAD-ADD would have been from more of a combination of drivers.

[Edited 2012-05-20 10:04:41]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
robertlondon
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):

That's very interesting. I always knew there is a large Ethiopian community across the US and Canada but didn't know it was concentrated in the Washington DC area.

Can I ask where you get this info from ?
 
timz
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting aio86 (Reply 2):
timz, how do you calculate that to be the case.

By making a mistake-- ignore what I said.
 
The777Man
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting robertlondon (Reply 13):
That's very interesting. I always knew there is a large Ethiopian community across the US and Canada but didn't know it was concentrated in the Washington DC area.

Can I ask where you get this info from ?

That is well know for people living in the area. There is also a very large number of people from other countries in Africa that fly via ADD to their countries.

I was on the IAD-ADD flight about 18 months ago (and wrote a trip report) and one person next to me was going to LOS, the other one to FIH.

You can also check Wikipedia which for once is right. Also ET would not have increased service to IAD from twice a week to at one point daily service if it was only for diplomatic service.

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dkny
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting robertlondon (Reply 11):
The IAD service is very much a diplomatic service (for obvious reasons) but is operated as an extension of the FCO service. As far as I'm aware IAD has never had a direct service from ADD

That is completely false. The IAD service is not extension to the FCO service. FCO is a tech stop en route to IAD. No passengers travel on the ADD-FCO sector. It is a fuel stop.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 3):
Possibly because the flight benefits from additional feed due to the relationship between Italy and Ethiopia? Just a guess, but it is interesting that it's Italy and Italy for a time colonized Ethiopia.

No passenger feed, because no one gets on or off in Rome, but I think some cargo is moved.
 
TIA
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting robertlondon (Reply 13):

Can I ask where you get this info from ?

I lived in DC for 3 years. This is not a diplomatic flight. The Ethiopian community in the US is concentrated in DC.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 18):
Quoting robertlondon (Reply 13):

Can I ask where you get this info from ?

I lived in DC for 3 years. This is not a diplomatic flight. The Ethiopian community in the US is concentrated in DC.

According to this 2005 Washington Post article, the 200,000 residents of Ethiopian descent then living in the Washington area comprised the largest Ethiopian community outside Ethiopia.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2005/05/17/AR2005051700677.html
 
TIA
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Sun May 20, 2012 11:24 pm

Off topic, but that article brings back memories. I used to frequent those Ethiopian places.
 
aio86
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Tue May 22, 2012 4:48 am

Thanks for the feedback! My main takeaway is that it is cheaper as it is already an ET station (hence the YYZ routing as well) and that there may be some cargo dropped as well.
 
retrolivery
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Tue May 22, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 18):
I lived in DC for 3 years. This is not a diplomatic flight. The Ethiopian community in the US is concentrated in DC.

As a native Washingtonian, I can 100% back this up. A walk around the U Street/Adams Morgan area alone will see Ethiopian restaurants on many street corners, and in elementary and middle school I had many Ethiopian classmates.

The community's presence in that city is very, very palpable, and is one of the things that makes DC so interesting and unique.
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Sepultallica
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Tue May 22, 2012 4:19 pm

Out of interest, does anyone have any stats on the distribution of African communities throughout the US? As in, which city has the largest "African" expat community - i.e Ethiopians, Nigerians, Kenyans etc counted together. Would it be NYC, DC, LA ranking highest?
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aio86
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Wed May 23, 2012 2:03 am

African communities are much larger on the East coast of the US but there are some important exceptions. For example, Somalis in the Twin Cities area, Nigerians in Texas....

Wikipedia actually does a pretty good job with individual articles on ethnic origin in the US:

i.e. "Ethiopian Americans" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_American

Ghanaian Americans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghanaian_American

Kenyan Americans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenyan_American
 
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Sepultallica
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Wed May 23, 2012 8:56 am

^Thanks for your input mayne, i appreciate it.
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ETinCaribe
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Wed May 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting robertlondon (Reply 11):
Having worked for ET in London (a few years ago now !) it's my experience that this service routes via FCO exactly as LHCVG mentions.

Historically Italy and Ethiopia have strong ties and there is a sizeable Ethiopian community in Italy.
The IAD service is very much a diplomatic service (for obvious reasons) but is operated as an extension of the FCO service. As far as I'm aware IAD has never had a direct service from ADD , because of the operational challenges flying out of ADD but also because even with the large diplomatic and UN presence in Ethiopia there is insufficient traffic to warrant this. Perhaps with the introduction of the 787's this will change.

As mentioned by others, purely technical stop. Not the 787 but the 773ER will replace the 77L next year.

Quoting aio86 (Reply 21):
Thanks for the feedback! My main takeaway is that it is cheaper as it is already an ET station (hence the YYZ routing as well) and that there may be some cargo dropped as well.

That's it, it is already a ET station and is on teh way to IAD/YYZ. No cargo is dropped off.
 
iadbudd
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Wed May 23, 2012 11:26 pm

Fueling and Catering stop only. Back when it was a B767 ADD-FCO-EWR-IAD-EWR-FCO-ADD they also had a crew change in FCO.
 
catiii
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Thu May 24, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting iadbudd (Reply 27):
Back when it was a B767 ADD-FCO-EWR-IAD-EWR-FCO-ADD they also had a crew change in FCO.

And in EWR I would imagine too.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Thu May 24, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting aio86 (Thread starter):
Any idea of this route will be able to go nonstop with the 787?

Nope. No aircraft currently built or planned to be built could operate that route nonstop with a full load and cargo.
 
iadbudd
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RE: Why Is ET ADD-IAD Routed Via FCO?

Thu May 24, 2012 4:06 am

No crew change in EWR. The same crew took it from FCO to IAD. New crew got on in IAD to go back to EWR then FCO. It was only a 36 min flight once airborne between EWR and IAD. Before 9-11, it was barely on ground in EWR for a hour on the way in from FCO. After 9-11 They made all the IAD pax clear customs in EWR then arrived IAD as a domestic flight. This made the ground time from 1 hour to almost 3 hours. Shortly after they dropped EWR.

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