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FlyASAGuy2005
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717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 3:55 pm

Hot off the press,

- DL has formally announced that they have "in principle" come to an agreement to lease 88 FL 717s. Config will be 12FC 15EC 83YC. They also said they plan on picking up about 70 more 76 seaters as they retire more 50-seaters to right-size the fleet.

- All merit and non-contract scale employees will receive another across the board raise in Jan 2013. This is on top of the raise coming in July. There was an annual employee survey conducted and the results sowed that everyone would rather more of their money coming in their regular check rather than depending on the uncertainty of profit shaing so the profit sharing calculation will be adjusted and base pay will go up.

I will not post the entire memo but here's a small piece explaining the 717 an large RJ deal..

Quote:
We’ve talked a lot about the steps we’re taking to continue improving the products and services we offer customers, to retire less efficient aircraft and maintain capacity discipline by continuing to right-size our fleet and network to match customer demand. As part of our work with the Delta pilots, we are making a major strategic shift in our mainline fleet – once again leading the industry. It is time to complete the dramatic reduction of 50-seat RJs and significantly increase and upgrade our mainline fleet.

First, we’ve reached an agreement in principle with Southwest Airlines and Boeing – to lease 88 Boeing 717 aircraft for the mainline that will replace inefficient 50-seat RJs. The Boeing 717 aircraft will be extensively refurbished, with new seats, galleys, in-flight Wi-Fi and cabin upgrades. Once refurbished, the aircraft will seat 110 passengers with 12 first class seats, 15 Economy Comfort seats and 83 economy seats. These aircraft will give our high value customers even more opportunities to upgrade to first class and Economy Comfort seats, extending our industry leading position as the U.S. airline with the most first class seats.

Second, Delta will increase the two-class 76 seat regional jet fleet by 70 airplanes, which will increase our total large RJ fleet from 255 to 325.

I think we can wave bye-bye to a very large part of the DCI CR2 fleet.

[Edited 2012-05-22 08:59:40]

[Edited 2012-05-22 09:08:48]

[Edited 2012-05-22 09:11:55]
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NWAESC
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 3:58 pm

Where'd you see that? Nothing on the company website or other usual outlets...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 1):

Check you delta.com email.

Mods, please don' delte i'm suea press release will come out in some minutes.
What gets measured gets done.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 1):
Where'd you see that? Nothing on the company website or other usual outlets...

Company wide email just sent out by Ricahrd Anderson.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:06 pm

This is sad... While I like the MD-95*, I was hoping the rumours circling around will turn out to be false and that Delta would order CSeries...

*) sorry Boeing, Mad Dog will ALWAYS be the Mad Dog!
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NWAESC
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:11 pm

Just saw it. Thanks, guys!
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BDL757
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:11 pm

I'm quite excited because we're (non-contract ppl like myself) getting a raise this coming July and now another one in January 2013!!

I'm also please to see a new mainline aircraft in the 110 seat range as this is perfect markets in NYC, DTW, and possibly LAX. My only question is: Is the company already assuming that the pilots are going to vote in favor of the current TA?
 
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seabosdca
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:15 pm

Some clever internal PR positioning to release this now. This will make the pilots look like the grinch to the entire rest of the company if they reject the TA.
 
nicksair
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:19 pm

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1624


That is the press release.

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STT757
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
They also said they plan on picking up about 70 more 76 seaters



I'm sure the pilots will not be thrilled by this, I guess the 717 deal is DL's attempt to quell the negative RJ reaction.
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flyabr
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:25 pm

Which 76 seater will Delta get 70 more of, the CRJ900 or E175??
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting nicksair (Reply 8):

Thank you nick.

Fair use from above link..

Quote:
Delta to Take Delivery of Boeing 717 Aircraft Upon Ratification of Pilot Tentative Agreement
Delta to upgauge fleet while replacing less efficient aircraft
Pilot agreement and aircraft transactions provide value to Delta people, customers and shareholders
May 22, 2012



ATLANTA, May 22, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) will begin taking delivery of Boeing 717 aircraft as early as 2013 upon ratification of a new tentative agreement covering Delta's more than 12,000 pilots. The tentative agreement was approved on May 21 by the Master Executive Council (MEC) of the Delta Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), and now will be presented to pilots for review and ratification through June 30.

(Logo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20090202/DELTALOGO )

The tentative agreement provides career growth opportunities as well as pay and benefits improvements for Delta pilots, while providing Delta productivity gains and additional aircraft flexibility, including an opportunity to accelerate its domestic fleet restructuring to provide a better customer travel experience.

If ratified, the agreement will accelerate Delta's domestic fleet restructuring strategy. To this end, Delta has reached an agreement in principle with Southwest Airlines and Boeing to lease 88 Boeing 717 aircraft currently in service at Southwest subsidiary AirTran Airways that is conditioned upon pilot ratification of the tentative agreement. The aircraft will primarily replace inefficient 50-seat regional jets and some older DC-9 aircraft still in service, on a capacity-neutral basis.

The tentative agreement also provides Delta with additional flexibility to acquire up to 70 larger two-class, 76-seat regional jets as the Boeing 717 aircraft are delivered to Delta. Delta currently operates 255 larger two-class regional jets; the fleet will be increased to 325 aircraft.

"These actions pave the way for us to restructure and upgauge our domestic fleet, which will lower our costs, provide more pilot jobs and improve the onboard experience for our customers," said Delta CEO Richard Anderson. "The addition of the Boeing 717s, additional large regional jets and the planned replacement of 50-seat aircraft continue Delta's commitment to operating an efficient, flexible domestic fleet that offers customers even more opportunities to upgrade to our First Class and Economy Comfort cabins."

In addition to aircraft flexibility, the tentative agreement will provide for productivity enhancements as well as improvements to the total compensation package for Delta pilots, including increases to base pay. The agreement also provides for a modification of the profit sharing program for pilots so that it pays 10 percent of profits, compared with 15 percent today, on the first $2.5 billion of profits effective Jan. 1, 2013. The plan will continue to pay 20 percent of profits above $2.5 billion. A voluntary early retirement option recently offered to Delta's other employee groups also will be available to Delta pilots upon ratification of the tentative agreement.

"Delta, our pilots and ALPA continue to benefit from a very constructive, proactive relationship, one that is unprecedented in our industry," said Mike Campbell, executive vice president – Human Resources and Labor Relations. "This tentative agreement represents an investment in our pilots and our company as it gives Delta significant fleet flexibility, the ability to continue running a reliable operation for our customers, and a profitable enterprise for shareholders and for all Delta people. The fleet changes provided by this agreement, coupled with the productivity and profit sharing changes, cover the investments in our employees.

"We strongly support the Delta MEC's endorsement and are optimistic that Delta pilots will ratify the tentative agreement," Campbell said.

Pilots have approximately five weeks to review and ratify the tentative agreement. If approved by the June 30 deadline, the agreement would take effect July 1, 2012. The agreement becomes amendable Dec. 31, 2015.

Negotiating committees for Delta and ALPA announced on May 15, 2012, that a tentative agreement had been reached. During the next several days the tentative agreement was reviewed and subsequently approved by the Delta MEC on May 21.
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enilria
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
They also said they plan on picking up about 70 more 76 seaters

I'm sure the pilots will not be thrilled by this, I guess the 717 deal is DL's attempt to quell the negative RJ reaction.

The CRJs don't make money at this fuel level. Excepting the profit sharing reduction, this is great for DL pilots. It is very bad for AirTran pilots as they will lose their seniority fence and fall to the bottom at WN.
 
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
This will make the pilots look like the grinch to the entire rest of the company if they reject the TA.

No reason for them to do so. It's good for the pilots and it's good for the company.
 
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
L has formally announced that they have "in principle" come to an agreement to lease 88 FL 717s

Interesting. After years of DL watching them come and go with FL at ATL, now DL will be flying them!

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
I'm sure the pilots will not be thrilled by this, I guess the 717 deal is DL's attempt to quell the negative RJ reaction.

Indeed, if you follow the link to the presser, you will see it is titled Delta to Take Delivery of Boeing 717 Aircraft Upon Ratification of Pilot Tentative Agreement.

Not very subtle...

However the PR does go on and describe the agreement that the MEC has agreed to and the pilots will vote on:

Quote:

ATLANTA, May 22, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) will begin taking delivery of Boeing 717 aircraft as early as 2013 upon ratification of a new tentative agreement covering Delta's more than 12,000 pilots. The tentative agreement was approved on May 21 by the Master Executive Council (MEC) of the Delta Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), and now will be presented to pilots for review and ratification through June 30.

The tentative agreement provides career growth opportunities as well as pay and benefits improvements for Delta pilots, while providing Delta productivity gains and additional aircraft flexibility, including an opportunity to accelerate its domestic fleet restructuring to provide a better customer travel experience.

If ratified, the agreement will accelerate Delta's domestic fleet restructuring strategy. To this end, Delta has reached an agreement in principle with Southwest Airlines and Boeing to lease 88 Boeing 717 aircraft currently in service at Southwest subsidiary AirTran Airways that is conditioned upon pilot ratification of the tentative agreement. The aircraft will primarily replace inefficient 50-seat regional jets and some older DC-9 aircraft still in service, on a capacity-neutral basis.

The tentative agreement also provides Delta with additional flexibility to acquire up to 70 larger two-class, 76-seat regional jets as the Boeing 717 aircraft are delivered to Delta. Delta currently operates 255 larger two-class regional jets; the fleet will be increased to 325 aircraft.
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 10):
Which 76 seater will Delta get 70 more of, the CRJ900 or E175??

Please be the E175.

CR9s are better than CR2s, but the 175 blows then both away from a passenger comfort perspective.

The PR specifically states "regional jets" so I think we can rule out a Q400 or ATR-72 order.


Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
I think we can wave bye-bye to a very large part of the DCI CR2 fleet.

I seem to remember that some frames are nearing the CR2 design life. If so, some of those will obviously go, and I could see a lot of retirements when the others start bumping up against heavy checks.

This is obviously a minor consideration, but at certain airports a 76-seater will be a tight fit in the gate areas designed for 50-seaters. The CRJ-200 has a 69ft wingspan, vs. 81ft for a CR9 and 85ft for an E175.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:51 pm

I hope DL puts AVOD on these aircraft, although it is unlikely due to these aircraft primarily being used to replace RJ flying.

Also, about the seats, will DL keep the existing Recaro seats that Airtran installed, or will DL install their own seats such as the Weber 5751 or B/E Aerospace Pinnacle?
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cv640
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 13):
No reason for them to do so. It's good for the pilots and it's good for the company.

Even with these aircraft there is no way to hide what this contract really is. Way too many loop holes, way short on compensation, I can't believe our MEC signed off on this. I guess they've just given up and want DPA on property.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 13):
No reason for them to do so. It's good for the pilots and it's good for the company.
Quoting cv640 (Reply 17):
Even with these aircraft there is no way to hide what this contract really is. Way too many loop holes, way short on compensation, I can't believe our MEC signed off on this. I guess they've just given up and want DPA on property.

What happens if the AMR contract comes in way below this DAL contract?
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lightsaber
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:09 pm

Please serve my crow well done with a Worcestershire sauce. I never thought this would happen.

This is out in the wild:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/del...lot-tentative-agreement-2012-05-22

Quoting flyabr (Reply 10):
Which 76 seater will Delta get 70 more of, the CRJ900 or E175??

Who will bid more aggressively?

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 15):
I seem to remember that some frames are nearing the CR2 design life.

It doesn't matter. DL cannot afford to subsidize the fuel of the CR2 fleet anymore. The cost per passenger is just too high. It is time to scrap CR2s and replace them with CR9s or E175s.

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bnatraveler
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 15):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
I think we can wave bye-bye to a very large part of the DCI CR2 fleet.

I seem to remember that some frames are nearing the CR2 design life. If so, some of those will obviously go, and I could see a lot of retirements when the others start bumping up against heavy checks.

Sounds like the PNCL Ch.11 makes even more sense here (especially the DL $70+ million DIP financing) - they will dump CR2s and transition to large RJs through the bankruptcy process. EV/OO will probably keep CR2s for now and those will be the last to go.
 
cv640
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
What happens if the AMR contract comes in way below this DAL contract?

SWA can compete with us while paying their pilots 42% higher then us.

AA has a ton of problems, labor is just one of them, plus they will get a nice pay raise in a merger with USAirways
 
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STT757
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:26 pm

I don't understand, why are DL pilots willing to lay down on the 70+ seat RJ issue where as pilots groups at other airlines are ready to go thermal nuclear?
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RL757PVD
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 22):
I don't understand, why are DL pilots willing to lay down on the 70+ seat RJ issue where as pilots groups at other airlines are ready to go thermal nuclear?

Probably because they enjoy the stability of working for a profitable company. I think the way the RJ fleet is pegged to the mainline fleet makes sense and protects the pilots interests.
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commavia
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:38 pm

I wonder how contingent this deal is on the pilots approving the TA. For instance, if the TA is rejected, does Delta have to pay some sort of break-up fee to Southwest/Boeing, or can they just proceed with the 717 leases anyway?

Either way - smart move on Delta's part to take advantage of a favorable situation to replace tons of uneconomic RJ flying with larger, more efficient, relatively young/low-cycle jets. The only question now becomes which markets are going to get cut over the next few years as Delta largely exits the 50-seat flying business. Much of that flying is likely to move up to 70-76-seaters or larger, but there are also routes Delta is flying today that I think will struggle to profitably fill anything even that large.
 
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting BNAtraveler (Reply 20):

9E stated that they will be a 50 seat aircraft airline coming out of bankruptcy. I think maybe they will be the ones flying the CR2 and everyone else will end up with larger jets. Of course things change so who knows what will happen going forward.
 
threeifbyair
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
It doesn't matter. DL cannot afford to subsidize the fuel of the CR2 fleet anymore. The cost per passenger is just too high. It is time to scrap CR2s and replace them with CR9s or E175s.

Completely agree. With ~300 frames, though, it will take a while to wind down CR2 flying unless DL plans to drop a lot of those routes entirely in the interim. If the 717s take over some of the routes currently flown by 76-seat RJs, those could help replace much of the CR2 fleet. The 70 new 76-seat orders would more or less take care of the rest, but even so, the CR2s will still be around for several more years.

If DL made an order tomorrow, how soon could it get a new CR9 or E175 into service?

Wikipedia says BBD has 66 unfilled CRJ-700/900/1000 orders and EMB has 249 E170/175/190/195 orders (are they all produced on the same line?).

BBD would seem to have an advantage if DL wants to move quickly.
 
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:52 pm

I would gladly give up my job flhing for a regional if it meant the opportunity to fly at a stable major airline. If we give up 2:1 crj200 for 900's I would call that a win for DL pilots. Eliminate a total of 70 regional jets while getting 88 more mainline sounds like a good start to me.

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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 5:59 pm

This is positive to the mainline pilots, as any way you cut it the ratio of regional aircraft to mainline aircraft will shift close to 10% (88 717 a/c as a ratio of a 700 a/c mainline fleet) even with the additional 70x 76 pax regional, As 737-900 and more MD90's come on board, as Delta keeps capacity steady it basically means 2-3 CR2 out the door and more flying for mainline pilots. I fully expect a call for hiring 500 new mainline pilots during Q3 2011. With the new tentative contract amenable for in 2015, it means the pilots and the airline can further tinker with increasing the mainline ratio.
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 16):
I hope DL puts AVOD on these aircraft, although it is unlikely due to these aircraft primarily being used to replace RJ flying.

AVOD on 717 and larger RJ deployed on shorter hops? Seriously?

Obviously you haven't flown an AVOD-equipped DL aircraft lately. If you had, you would have noticed most passengers were too busy utilizing their laptops, tablets and smart phones to even notice the PTV. Sure, it's a nice option to have. But in 2012, it's one that appeals to few passengers to justify the cost on a short-hop.

At least you didn't suggest pink seats.
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timf
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:04 pm

The 9E fleet is newer than most of the EV/OO/OH fleets since NW was a relative latecomer to the RJ game compared to DL, so it would make sense for those to be the ones that stick around longer. There will likely be some coming out of all of the fleets though, since OO will still need them for certain at-risk and EAS services.

In any case, it's good to finally have official confirmation of this long standing rumor. The 717 is a great aircraft and I look forward to having those in the DL fleet instead of CR2s.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:24 pm

70 new 76 seat RJs = 5320 seats
88 new 110 seat 717s = 9680 seats

Total = 15,000 seats

"replaced on a capacity ceutral basis"

15,000/ 50 = 300 -50 seat RJs exiting the fleet...aka pretty much all except perhaps a small handful.

For those who want to continue the math, can figure out how many beer cans per aircraft...
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KingAir200
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting timf (Reply 30):

The 9E fleet is newer than most of the EV/OO/OH fleets since NW was a relative latecomer to the RJ game compared to DL

   OH is down to only relatively old 100s. OO's newest was delivered in 2003 and they've picked up several 100s that have left OH in the last 6 months. EV's are somewhat more spread out age wise, but nonetheless the bulk of their fleet is older than 9E's. I'm interested to see where RP falls in the grand scheme of things. Do the ERJs stay or go?

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 29):
But in 2012, it's one that appeals to few passengers to justify the cost on a short-hop.

Exactly. If I'm going to pay for an entertainment option, I'd much rather buy wifi access.
 
Josh32121
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:35 pm

Won't the 717's be used to replace DC9-50's, too? That wasn't specifically mentioned, but haven't the -50's been on the chopping block without a clear replacement for their capacity until now?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 29):
Obviously you haven't flown an AVOD-equipped DL aircraft lately. If you had, you would have noticed most passengers were too busy utilizing their laptops, tablets and smart phones to even notice the PTV. Sure, it's a nice option to have. But in 2012, it's one that appeals to few passengers to justify the cost on a short-hop.

Actually, I had an AVOD 738 on PHX-JFK on an overnight flight last Thursday/Friday. While most people were sleeping in the flight, I saw a lot more people using the IFE than I saw using their tablets and laptops. It's all about convenience.

[Edited 2012-05-22 11:42:48]
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:41 pm

A lot of 50 seat RJs were planning to leave the fleet in the next 3-7 years anyways, however there will still likely be a fleet of 75-100 left by 2020. Most of these will be the 9E aircraft that DL leases direct and are the youngest CRJs in fleet.

In the end it can be capacity neutral based on the replacement of the 18 remaining DC-9-50s and 50 seat RJs.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:41 pm

It looks like the pilots have agreed:
http://www.ajc.com/travel/delta-pilot-deal-allows-1443590.html

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 31):
15,000/ 50 = 300 -50 seat RJs exiting the fleet...aka pretty much all except perhaps a small handful.

Per Wikipedia, I count 348. Would DL really keep 48 RJs? Perhaps at ATL, DTW, LGA/JFK, and ??? I wonder if there will be seat growth despite the neutral claim.

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dtw9
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 37):
It looks like the pilots have agreed:

Not yet. The MEC agreed, the pilots have yet to vote
 
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 34):
Won't the 717's be used to replace DC9-50's, too? That wasn't specifically mentioned, but haven't the -50's been on the chopping block without a clear replacement for their capacity until now?

There will probably be 17, or 18 or perhaps 19 DC9-50 frames in operation throughout this summer with an announced retirement date stretched out to 2013. I am sure once the 717's are coming on property they may accelerate the retirement of this orphan fleet, but I would certainly love to see a 40 year old DC9 in the Delta Climbing colors next to a 717 in the Delta Climbing colors. Talk about a fabulous full circle.
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cv640
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 37):
It looks like the pilots have agreed:

We won't even start voting on it for at least a week, so no one other then our leadership has agreed.
 
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mayor
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 37):
It looks like the pilots have agreed:
http://www.ajc.com/travel/delta-pilo....html

Still has to be voted on..............
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
capitalflyer
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:03 pm

Seems ditching the 50-seaters in favor of larger planes flies in the face of what had seemed to be the trend of increasing frequency. Larger planes on regional routes will mean fewer flights (33% reduction?), meaning lower total fuel costs and maybe even higher fares. Good for Delta, bad for pax (although I would rather fly on a 175 than a CR2 any day).

Will there be SCASD cities that will lose service all together as a result? This was the niche for the CR2s.
 
compensateme
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 35):
Actually, I had an AVOD 738 on PHX-JFK on an overnight flight last Thursday/Friday. While most people were sleeping in the flight, I saw a lot more people using the IFE than I saw using their tablets and laptops. It's all about convenience.

No, it's all about making money, so unless those "conveniences" are drawing a premium. I travel frequently and noticed that since the introduction of tablets & explosive popularity of smart phones, fewer and fewer passengers are making use of their PTV, even on long-haul flights. AVOD systems are costly; don't expect other passengers will be willing to pay more for the enjoyment of a few passengers (usually kids). After all, they can always bring their Power Puff Girls & Dora The Explorer DVDs on board free of charge.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
lhcvg
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 15):
Please be the E175.

CR9s are better than CR2s, but the 175 blows then both away from a passenger comfort perspective.

The PR specifically states "regional jets" so I think we can rule out a Q400 or ATR-72 order.

Remember though - CR9s are said to have somewhat better economics for the airline than E-Jets. That may play trump in the final decision (accounting for price of course).
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:10 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 43):
No, it's all about making money, so unless those "conveniences" are drawing a premium. I travel frequently and noticed that since the introduction of tablets & explosive popularity of smart phones, fewer and fewer passengers are making use of their PTV, even on long-haul flights. AVOD systems are costly; don't expect other passengers will be willing to pay more for the enjoyment of a few passengers (usually kids). After all, they can always bring their Power Puff Girls & Dora The Explorer DVDs on board free of charge.

But there are still enough people who use the system that makes its installation worthwhile. Plans have already been finalized to have AVOD factory-installed on the 739ER fleet, and I don't see that changing. While I would agree that it is unlikely that DL will install AVOD on the 717 fleet, don't expect it to go away on other aircraft. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that DL will pull out the seats/systems on whichever 75X's are retired, and retrofits them onto newer 757s without AVOD. This would be similar to when DL retired some of their domestic 763s and took their seats and IFE and installed them on the 76Ts.

[Edited 2012-05-22 12:13:15]
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
ulfinator
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:10 pm

The blog posting I saw related to this topic has a very interesting typo in it. Check out the second to last paragraph. Apparently the "The 717s have 10.296 seats.". haha. A decimal point versus a comma really changes the meaning.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...outhwest-airlines-to-sublease.html
 
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aloha73g
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:14 pm

The 717 is a great plane! I love flying on them as a passenger on HA's interisland flights and also enjoyed working them as an FA. Will be nice to see the 717 in DL's fleet.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 44):
Remember though - CR9s are said to have somewhat better economics for the airline than E-Jets. That may play trump in the final decision (accounting for price of course).

I remember hearing that NW preferred the E-175 over the CR9. This could also be a factor as well.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
compensateme
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Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 45):
. Plans have already been finalized to have AVOD factory-installed on the 739ER fleet, and I don't see that changing. While I would agree that it is unlikely that DL will install AVOD on the 717 fleet, don't expect it to go away on other aircraft. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that DL will pull out the seats/systems on whichever 75X's are retired, and retrofits them onto newer 757s without AVOD.

The longest 717 flights will likely be 2.5-hours, with most flights shorter than that; the 739 will be operating many flights 4-hours in duration or longer. The latter has a case for AVOD, the former does not.

I certainly don't expect DL to remove the existing AVOD systems after spending millions installing them. But the oldest installations are approaching 10-years and the touchscreens becoming "buggy." I'd be surprised if DL moved these into other a/c...
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
MountainFlyer
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RE: 717 And Large RJs For Delta! Other Tidbits..

Tue May 22, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 31):
15,000/ 50 = 300 -50 seat RJs exiting the fleet...aka pretty much all except perhaps a small handful.
Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 34):
Won't the 717's be used to replace DC9-50's, too? That wasn't specifically mentioned, but haven't the -50's been on the chopping block without a clear replacement for their capacity until now?

Several articles (including the one below) mention the 717's as being replacements for the remaining DC-9s, so it is not all to replace CR2s.

Also, this WSJ article mentions that the 717's will be subleased???

SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
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