skycub
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City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:04 am

Houston Mayor Annise Parker is planning to announce Wednesday morning that the city and Southwest Airlines have come to an agreement on how to finance a $100 million expansion of Hobby Airport to accommodate international flights, according to a City Hall source.

http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitic...outhwest-to-be-announced-tomorrow/
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tsnamm
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:26 am

Well let's see if UA follows through with the (idle?) threats ...
 
drerx7
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:38 am

Good news! Maybe w will get a little relief from ua airfares.
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Byrdluvs747
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:40 am

As someone in the comments posted, why is this being paid for by the pax. Wasn't WN going to pay for the terminal itself? Why should other airline passengers pay a user fee just to benefit WN? If I were AA, B6, F9 or DL, I would file an injunction.
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Type-Rated
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:52 am

Smisek was on the news today predicting all kinds of gloom and doom for the UA IAH hub if Southwest gets to fly internationally from HOU.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8672834

OK, let Smisek downsize their IAH presence by 10%. There will be other airlines stepping in to fill those voids. I assure you.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
LAXintl
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 2:04 am

     

Great to see Houston not allowing itself to be taken hostage by United.

Competition is a beautiful thing.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 3):
As someone in the comments posted, why is this being paid for by the pax. Wasn't WN going to pay for the terminal itself? Why should other airline passengers pay a user fee just to benefit WN? If I were AA, B6, F9 or DL, I would file an injunction.

Designation of PFC funds is not at the discretion of the airlines, but of the authority collecting them.

There is nothing to contest, as invariably not all facilities would be used by all passengers or airlines anyhow.

Based on your argument, I guess airports like SFO, DTW and now LAX should not be getting new Intl facilities, nor should airports all around America invest any monies in any projects whatsoever.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
commavia
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 2:08 am

Well it appears Southwest's exceptional P.R. machine has succeeded once again.

I'm personally not necessarily opposed to Southwest flying international from Hobby, but I do think - after reading through Southwest's literature and reading the United/Swelbar rebuttal report, that a lot of Southwest's predictions and assumptions really are a bit ridiculous.

Nonetheless, I think it's only logical, whether one supports or opposes Southwest's plans, to expect that this will have some negative impact on United at Bush, which I agree - with United/Swelbar - is most likely to benefit AA at D/FW and to a lesser extent Delta in Atlanta.

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 1):
Well let's see if UA follows through with the (idle?) threats ...

Well of course it won't be doom and gloom as United is painting it - just as it wasn't when AA was spelling doom and gloom for D/FW back in 2005 when the Wright Amendment debate kicked up.

But, personally, I will be less interested to see if United follows through on reducing capacity at Bush 10% than I will be to see if fares in competing markets really drop by the enormous percentages that Southwest predicts they will in their studies and arguments supporting this move.
 
CALMSP
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 3:12 am

City Council still needs to approve. Mayor Porker can say what she wants. Still wait and see. I read somewhere else, WN flight attendants turned down the international piece of their contract??
 
usflyguy
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 3:50 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 7):
I read somewhere else, WN flight attendants turned down the international piece of their contract??

So they go back to the negotiation table. Duh.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
skycub
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 5:29 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 8):

So they go back to the negotiation table. Duh.

LOL! Sorry.... that was one of the best posts I have seen on here in a while. Thanks for the laugh, usflyguy!
My opinions are my own. They are not representative of my employer, my union or my co-workers. They are all mine.
 
BlueDanube
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 5:38 am

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 1):

Not sure they are idle threats. IAH-Auckland, New Zealand looks less promising at this point.
 
wdleiser
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 6:16 am

Quoting BlueDanube (Reply 10):

and that would only hurt UA. That is one flight. Now lets see if UA gets rid of IAH-GIG, IAH-MEX etc etc. UA needs IAH as it is a cash cow for them. If they leave IAH, another airline will fill the void and cash in on the high airfares too and from IAH. Why on earth would you leave an airport with the highest fares in the United States? On another note, UA is making this sound like WN is going to start flying longhaul to Europe and Asia from HOU stealing all of their premium passengers.
 
tsnamm
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 12:40 pm

Quoting BlueDanube (Reply 10):
Not sure they are idle threats. IAH-Auckland, New Zealand looks less promising at this point.

why should a couple of 737's to Mexico resorts and the Carribean have any effect on traffic to NZ? The only reason UA would pull AKL is because they can, and it would have little effect to their network by moving it to say SFO. Otherwise they would simply be spiteful towards Houston by shooting themselves in the foot just to prove a point. I doubt WN's flights from HOU will have a huge impact on UA at IAH at all...
 
BlueDanube
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 12:48 pm

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 12):

I agree that it seems irrational to pull IAHACK simply because WN launching a flights to Mexico, Latin America, and the Caribbean. But UA may make the point that they aren't getting the support from the City of Houston that they thought that they had and that they no longer think that they can make new markets like this work.

So yes, spite could play a role in this.
 
drerx7
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:11 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 3):
Why should other airline passengers pay a user fee just to benefit WN?

They will be CUTE gates, so incumbent carriers may use the facilities as well i.e. Interjet, Volaris, and any charter operations.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 4):
Smisek was on the news today predicting all kinds of gloom and doom for the UA IAH hub if Southwest gets to fly internationally from HOU.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8672834

OK, let Smisek downsize their IAH presence by 10%. There will be other airlines stepping in to fill those voids. I assure you.

Judging by the downturn in service and the 6.7% decrease in passengers - United is downsizing their own presence. United will be foolish to decrease Houston service - as you've pointed out other airlines will fill the void. How do you think Emirates, Qatar, BA, KL, SQ, etc. have been able to entrench themselves at IAH...CO did not have the aircraft to open lucrative routes and compete most effectively. They wisely chose to allocate the resources to build up NYC first.

Quoting commavia (Reply 6):
to expect that this will have some negative impact on United at Bush, which I agree - with United/Swelbar - is most likely to benefit AA at D/FW and to a lesser extent Delta in Atlanta.

This would be foolish and only hurt United.

Quoting BlueDanube (Reply 10):
Not sure they are idle threats. IAH-Auckland, New Zealand looks less promising at this point.

The viability and liklihood of this flight was always in question. If UA fails to start it, they were looking for an excuse to move it to another hub anyway.

Quoting wdleiser (Reply 11):
. Now lets see if UA gets rid of IAH-GIG, IAH-MEX etc etc. UA needs IAH as it is a cash cow for them. If they leave IAH, another airline will fill the void and cash in on the high airfares too and from IAH. Why on earth would you leave an airport with the highest fares in the United States?

Absolutely. Just a bunch of pouting and throwing a fit.

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 12):
I doubt WN's flights from HOU will have a huge impact on UA at IAH at all...

They will not, in fact in the long term I expect UA to grow.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
congaboy
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:20 pm

Cmon folks...we all know this is all spun out of proportion by all parties. The prime benefactor is the City of Houston, and of course they will work with WN. One only needs to look at a similar, but not identical, model at Chicago, the third largest city in the USA. For years the Southwest build up at MDW has co-existed with UA and AA over at ORD. Now we see developments along the same lines (but with an international flair) in the nation's fourth largest city. The PR machines from camp Smisek and Kelly are, in my mind, predictable. UA is not going to draw down 10%, and WN will settle with their labor groups. And they will have a dog-fight fare war for some months, settle in, and co-exist, and continue to re-invest.
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drerx7
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting congaboy (Reply 15):
UA is not going to draw down 10%, and WN will settle with their labor groups. And they will have a dog-fight fare war for some months, settle in, and co-exist, and continue to re-invest.

Yep.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
UAL777UK
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting BlueDanube (Reply 10):

Not sure they are idle threats. IAH-Auckland, New Zealand looks less promising at this point.

Why, because WN are planning it with a 737 with 4 refuelling stops on route?  

For reasons stated above UA will be shooting themselves in the foot if they just throw in the towel to WN. IAH is a massive hub, massive loyalty etc. Sure UA might take a hit on some flights, they need to adjust and stay focused, not throw their toys out the pram and fight on. No point in Smisek moaning, nobody seems to be listening.....not in Texas anyway.
 
drerx7
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 17):
No point in Smisek moaning, nobody seems to be listening.....not in Texas anyway.

That's right - there are alot of emotional strings being pulled...right or wrong logical or not alot of folks down here are still pissed about the move to Chicago...even if "the largest hub" is still IAH. I've started flying other carriers because the service is going down the drain and the fares are sky high on UA here in Houston.

Also, according to the press conference - WN will cover all cost associated with building the facility and then turn it over to the City of Houston, WN gets preferential use out of 4 gates and the fifth gate can be used by whomever at will.
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FlyingSicilian
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 3:29 pm

drerx I agree. Houston fares are very high. IIRC reading here on A.net some reports had them at the highest in the nation.
Smisek is correct in that UA can provide Houston massive connections due to the feed of the hub (3rd most in the USA I think) and that is certainly a benefit but I don't full buy into their argument on losing the connecting passenger they site in the interview.

If Southwest were flying int'l from IAH UA would still lose the two pax. And it could be debated that say if WN used int'l gates at SAT, for example, those same pax flying OKC-CUN would now fly Southwest if it were cheaper; UA still loses the pax.

as an aside, I'd also be happy if Houston Metro got rail lines out to both airports faster or at least faster buses to connect them.
You can bus it between both airports for 2.25$ via #73 to #102 but it can take about 2 hours (at least).
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 3:41 pm

Smisek is already not wildly popular these days in the aftermaths of what has already been a semi-disastrous merger. Obviously, now that it is irreversible, UA should focus more on retaining loyalty rather than leveraging this stupid power struggle against WN in Houston. I'm personally not convinced judging by the way he spun his answers in that interview. Eliminating 1,300 jobs and 10% capacity? That is indeed a threat, not a compulsion. Way to alienate more people.

United has some clear advantages over Southwest within the context of their Latin American network. Those advantages will be fairly preserved, IMO, if WN were to launch international flights from HOU.

And, like others have pointed out, if UA is stupid enough to start to detonate their own hub in IAH by a 737-only airline, well good luck to them, because another competitor WILL indeed come in and fill the void, and make them look even more ridiculous.
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usflyguy
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 3:47 pm

http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...or-international-flights-at-hobby/

So, WN is paying for 100% of the cost of building the terminal and then turning over ownership to the city (getting a debt-free facility); in exchange, WN get exclusive use of 4 of the gates and the 5th gate is a common use gate. The facility will not be financed by passenger usage fees.
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mogandoCI
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 21):
http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012...or-international-flights-at-hobby/

So, WN is paying for 100% of the cost of building the terminal and then turning over ownership to the city (getting a debt-free facility); in exchange, WN get exclusive use of 4 of the gates and the 5th gate is a common use gate. The facility will not be financed by passenger usage fees.

At $100 million cost, how many pax WN needs to fly from HOU to Mexico/Carib to even break even this investment ?
 
diverdave
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 4:24 pm

Interesting that in 2011, HOU had its highest passenger count (9.8 million) covering a period back to 1989.

http://www.fly2houston.com/about-traffic-updates

IAH is down about 2.8 million pax from its high of almost 43 million in 2007.

David
 
2travel2know2
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 22):
At $100 million cost, how many pax WN needs to fly from HOU to Mexico/Carib to even break even this investment ?

I'd believe WN knows that the future 4 WN assigned international gates @ HOU could be used as domestic by them when needed, so for them it'll be also an investment in added gate capacity @ HOU.
Now, if WN is making the investment of USD100 million, would that mean that it's WN who would have the right to give the grant and make $$ out of the concessions at the new facility?
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 4:28 pm

For Houston how can you say no?
Having much lower last minute international fares will be great for business, visitors, and locals. Southwest would just operate the international flights from another gateway city if houston said no and many would take them up on the offer in a second for interntational flights. United is just mad its all talke they are not going to leave or shrink Houston in any way because of this. They might make less money as fares to some markets may drop significantly last minute especially but its not like The united Houston operation is really in any risk from the cities perspective. If united shrank in houston as others said they would be inviting other carriers to move in so they are just angry that southwest is moving in on their hub space. southwest operating some international flights is a problem? At denver they have three or four competitors on almost every major route and in houston they will have one competator in the N/S field on some.....it doesnt seem that bad to me
 
BC77008
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 4:31 pm

So glad that this happened. United (Smisek) needs to be brought down a peg or two. The love Houston had for Continental is no more.
"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
 
ScottB
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 5:21 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 4):
Smisek was on the news today predicting all kinds of gloom and doom for the UA IAH hub if Southwest gets to fly internationally from HOU.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...72834

I'm amazed he could even make some of his statements with a straight face; he sounds like the Iraqi Information Minister:

Quote:
Only good things have happened to Houston since we merged. We've grown this hub. We have 17,000 people here.

Sure, moving thousands of jobs from Houston to Chicago counts in those "only good things," right?

Quote:
I am not threatening anything. This is what will be forced to happen. This isn't a threat.

If you don't hand over what's in the cash register, I will be "forced" to shoot you. But it's not a threat.

Quoting commavia (Reply 6):
I think it's only logical, whether one supports or opposes Southwest's plans, to expect that this will have some negative impact on United at Bush, which I agree - with United/Swelbar - is most likely to benefit AA at D/FW and to a lesser extent Delta in Atlanta.

I'd argue that it probably impacts all players accessing similar traffic flows, since a hypothetical OKC-HOU-CUN passenger on WN might have flown OKC-DFW-CUN or OKC-IAH-CUN. I expect there's somewhat less impact on ATL since the non-stop markets on WN to HOU don't have a lot of overlap with connections which would be logical over ATL -- but it's also reasonable to expect that WN will run some international service from ATL as well. If UA were to reduce service at IAH, the largest beneficiary might even be WN with their large operations at HOU & DAL; if UA cuts a LIT-IAH flight, for example, those passengers might just end up flying LIT-DAL or LIT-HOU.

Quoting BlueDanube (Reply 13):
But UA may make the point that they aren't getting the support from the City of Houston that they thought that they had and that they no longer think that they can make new markets like this work.

So yes, spite could play a role in this.

Absolutely. One could argue that moving the company HQ to Chicago essentially imploded every single ounce of goodwill which had been built up over three decades of the company's presence in Houston. If the HQ were still on Smith Street, I think WN would have been politely told that the City wasn't prepared to move forward with international facilities at HOU at this time. But instead, Houston is seeing higher fares for a lower-quality product up at the big airport -- and there isn't even the salve of "supporting the hometown business."
 
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lightsaber
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 14):
They will be CUTE gates, so incumbent carriers may use the facilities as well i.e. Interjet, Volaris, and any charter operations.

Important to remember that WN is enabling their own competition. However, 4 gates to 1 isn't likely to produce a viable competitor who doesn't have a strong base at the receiving end. (e.g., Westjet or a Mexican airline).

The chance of competition comes down to cost vs. IAH.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 25):
For Houston how can you say no?

I see no downside for the city and in particular business in the city as well as future tax revenue.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 24):
Now, if WN is making the investment of USD100 million, would that mean that it's WN who would have the right to give the grant and make $$ out of the concessions at the new facility?

I would assume it would come out of WN's guarantee for the loan. WN won't pay USD 100 million of their own money. There will be a mortgage (or some other type of loan) secured by the proceeds that WN must guarantee. I'm certain there is some sort of concession revenue that goes to pay off the loan, but that the surplus goes to the city (or other parts of the airport system).

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 25):
If united shrank in houston as others said they would be inviting other carriers to move in so they are just angry that southwest is moving in on their hub space. southwest operating some international flights is a problem?

From a UA yield perspective it will be a problem.  

Lightsaber
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BobbyPSP
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 10:22 pm

This is good news... While I have a strong afinity for UA as a former employee, this was the right decision. It's the American way after all. Capitalism at its best
 
freakyrat
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 10:31 pm

type-rated (reply 4) said "Smisek was on the news today predicting all kinds of gloom and doom for the UA IAH hub if Southwest gets to fly internationally from HOU."

Where is there doom and gloom in Chicago with 2 international airports?

JayLo is just blowing a lot of smoke. It's amazing how he took a great company in the eyes of the traveling public, Continental and totally screwed things up.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 11:11 pm

That's what I wondered? Why is this different than ORD/MDW?
The matter is that UA will have to lower fares to match WN on these competing routes, and Smisek doesn't like it.
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billreid
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 11:39 pm

Southwest is nothing but a group of FOOLS.
Houston has an International Airport. If WN wants to compete at a major league level it needs to grow up.
It LIED to the government about the FL acquisition. Wheres the GROWTH? LOL LOL LOL

Their management are building a plan for disaster!!!
If it wants to fly international, then do it where CBP is and facilities are.
This Nation is in a massive recession so why build a facility where there is one that is NOT at 100% use.

It is simple ....... The WN product can not compete head on.
As a result the city of Houston will lose here.

This will end up in court and cost millions.
It will not be based upon facilities. Instead it will be based upon CBP staffing.
CBP does not have the staff to support HOU for the next ten years and 45 other airports this year have been denied staffing by CBP. Stats show that CBP processing time is up 18% accross the nation in 2012.
As Houston already has a CBP facility how does Washington justify this?
After the merger documents were filed stating NO FL/WN closures they are left with no Senators or Congressman backing them outside of TX. And CBP is staffed from Washington not TX. Burnt those bridges. Nothing left for WN to use, no friends in Washington...
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
drerx7
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
It is simple ....... The WN product can not compete head on.
As a result the city of Houston will lose here.

How do you come up with this ill-logic?

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
As Houston already has a CBP facility how does Washington justify this?

And why can't they utilize some of the staff this is already at HOU to serve private ops? Once the facility is complete some staffing can come from there. Your arguments show that you may not fully understand the ramifications of the situation...the City of Houston very well could have ended up in court had they NOT let WN do this.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
freakyrat
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Wed May 23, 2012 11:53 pm

Houston HOU already has a CBP facility used for private planes and can support air carrier international flights at Hobby and we are not talking about many flights and we are talking about opening in 2015 at the earliest not this year or next year. Who knows where our economy will be in 2015? Who knows what CBP staffing levels will be in 2015?

This will no end up in court. The WN product Can compete head on and Houston is a large spread out city and there is room for international flights from Hobby and Intercontinental just like O'Hare and Midway in Chicago. If they didn't fly from Hobby WN would do the same from Austin.
 
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par13del
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Thu May 24, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
As Houston already has a CBP facility how does Washington justify this?

Expansion, job creation, new hires etc etc. The forcast is for air travel to grow, so why can it not grown in Houston?
WN is looking to offer new service why can UA not do the same, why do we have to take the line that one person is looking to take business away from another?
 
ouboy79
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Thu May 24, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
Southwest is nothing but a group of FOOLS.

Mmhmm. 39 years of consecutive annual profits, yup fools I tell ya.

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
Houston has an International Airport. If WN wants to compete at a major league level it needs to grow up.

Already addressed by others...and WN doesn't compete at a major level? They are #1 in the US Domestic market when it comes to pax carried.

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
It LIED to the government about the FL acquisition. Wheres the GROWTH? LOL LOL LOL

I've seen several new international routes open up (using FL). I would also imagine once the FL network is fully integrated that we will see a net increase in total pax carried than what WN/FL did pre-acquisition. Yes smaller, under performing cities, or cities that just won't work in the WN setup have been closed. Why don't you ask PIT, STL, and CVG how well their hubs made out after those mergers.

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
It is simple ....... The WN product can not compete head on.
As a result the city of Houston will lose here.

So WN should just close up Hobby and move everything over? Do you know the financials behind such a move? Since you are claiming this is a disaster, you must have run the numbers yourself. Surely can't insist that WN operate int'l from IAH without moving the rest of the network over. Which gates did you have picked for them to move in to? WN operates in nearly every major US cities - so how are they not able to compete? Also how does Houston win if HOU is 80% empty after WN is moved over to IAH?

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
After the merger documents were filed stating NO FL/WN closures they are left with no Senators or Congressman backing them outside of TX.

Really? You have proof of this? I'm pretty sure WN never promised that no city would be closed - EVER. So they should just remain in a money losing market? That's not very smart and would definitely be FOOLISH for airline management to do. Then again...it is apparently ran by a bunch of fools according to you.
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Thu May 24, 2012 2:50 pm

This is the right move for the city of Houston to make. For all the reasons stated above, the competitiion will be good in that it will bring some airfares down. No you will not be able to buy a $200 r/t ticket to Cancun. But maybe a $400 ticket? Yes, that's possible. As others have said as well, Houston is a very spread out metropolitan area, and the two airports are about 30 miles and a good 45 minutes apart ( over an hour apart in heavy traffic). I wonder if UA is kicking themselves for stopping the EFD feeder flights several years back. Though as a stand-alone those flights didn't make money, they did serve to open up that whole Bay Area/Pearland/Galveston market for convienient flights out of IAH.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Thu May 24, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 28):
Important to remember that WN is enabling their own competition. However, 4 gates to 1 isn't likely to produce a viable competitor who doesn't have a strong base at the receiving end. (e.g., Westjet or a Mexican airline).

If CM feels they can grab a piece of Houston O/D market with more attractive HOU fares than UA @ IAH, CM could think of flying to HOU. CM is doing something similar to UA already in the NYC market.
And CM has an strong base at the receiving end.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Thu May 24, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting iahworldflyer (Reply 37):
I wonder if UA is kicking themselves for stopping the EFD feeder flights several years back. Though as a stand-alone those flights didn't make money, they did serve to open up that whole Bay Area/Pearland/Galveston market for convienient flights out of IAH.

Do you see UA going SNA-LAX or ISP-EWR ? UA could come out way cheaper offering free connecting bus service.
 
usflyguy
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Thu May 24, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 39):
ISP-EWR

I could see them doing that one.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
panpan
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Fri May 25, 2012 1:02 am

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
Southwest is nothing but a group of FOOLS.
Houston has an International Airport. If WN wants to compete at a major league level it needs to grow up.
It LIED to the government about the FL acquisition. Wheres the GROWTH? LOL LOL LOL

Their management are building a plan for disaster!!!
If it wants to fly international, then do it where CBP is and facilities are.
This Nation is in a massive recession so why build a facility where there is one that is NOT at 100% use.

It is simple ....... The WN product can not compete head on.
As a result the city of Houston will lose here.

This will end up in court and cost millions.
It will not be based upon facilities. Instead it will be based upon CBP staffing.
CBP does not have the staff to support HOU for the next ten years and 45 other airports this year have been denied staffing by CBP. Stats show that CBP processing time is up 18% accross the nation in 2012.
As Houston already has a CBP facility how does Washington justify this?
After the merger documents were filed stating NO FL/WN closures they are left with no Senators or Congressman backing them outside of TX. And CBP is staffed from Washington not TX. Burnt those bridges. Nothing left for WN to use, no friends in Washington..

Is there any part of this that is supported by factual evidence at all? In a realted topic-- what you smokin'????
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1517
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Fri May 25, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
Southwest is nothing but a group of FOOLS.
Houston has an International Airport. If WN wants to compete at a major league level it needs to grow up.
It LIED to the government about the FL acquisition. Wheres the GROWTH? LOL LOL LOL

Their management are building a plan for disaster!!!
If it wants to fly international, then do it where CBP is and facilities are.
This Nation is in a massive recession so why build a facility where there is one that is NOT at 100% use.

It is simple ....... The WN product can not compete head on.
As a result the city of Houston will lose here.

This will end up in court and cost millions.
It will not be based upon facilities. Instead it will be based upon CBP staffing.
CBP does not have the staff to support HOU for the next ten years and 45 other airports this year have been denied staffing by CBP. Stats show that CBP processing time is up 18% accross the nation in 2012.
As Houston already has a CBP facility how does Washington justify this?
After the merger documents were filed stating NO FL/WN closures they are left with no Senators or Congressman backing them outside of TX. And CBP is staffed from Washington not TX. Burnt those bridges. Nothing left for WN to use, no friends in Washington...

Are you Smisek or Tilton? With that much anger/bitterness about this, you must be one of the two...
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
drerx7
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Fri May 25, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting iahworldflyer (Reply 37):
I wonder if UA is kicking themselves for stopping the EFD feeder flights several years back.

Well, they pulled out because in the post 9/11 world and fuel prices it was no longer feasible, especially since the Houston Airport System would have required them to upgrade the facility they used at EFD for new security requirements. I flew them quite often on the route.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
billreid
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Sat May 26, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 33):
And why can't they utilize some of the staff this is already at HOU to serve private ops? Once the facility is complete some staffing can come from there. Your arguments show that you may not fully understand the ramifications of the situation...the City of Houston very well could have ended up in court had they NOT let WN do this.

The legal interpretation on the movement of CBP agents says that the only way this can happen is through new agents being hired. Unless HOU is a designated Port of Entry that means that the city of Houston MUST pay for those agents at 230,000 per agent and for the schedule that is proposed HOU will have to pay for an additional 75-100 agents. This is what CBP is telling ALL airports in the USA.
An application will need to be filed with CBP before te flight activity is approved.

the real question here is whether the tax payer is willing to pay $25,000,000 for staffing per year while IAH is free?
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
LAXintl
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Sat May 26, 2012 3:40 pm

It will happen as its happened in the Los Angeles port district.

New FIS facility opens (ONT in the past, and SNA now in 2012), and bodies get shuffled around. Depending on flight schedules agents get sent to work at the new facilities either part-time a few hours here or there to meet specific flights, or of activity warrants full time postings are created.

Yes there is a general lack of authorized CBP staffing in the nation, and yes there is push back however at the end of the day coverage is provided especially when friendly local senators and congressman write a letter or two.

Houston like Los Angeles is actually one of the larger CBP districts in the nation due to the huge shipping port, so its more a matter of prioritizing work than having to create a huge number of new positions.

Oh an for the payment - remember each inbound passenger pays $28.70 in fees currently that is meant to directly cover such international arrival services at the US port.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
tx2fl
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 7:41 am

RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Sat May 26, 2012 5:11 pm

I wonder what this will mean for Job creation for HOU/Southwest? If jobs will be given internally or externals hired, as there will be plenty airline employees with international experience floating around out there, especially if AA/US merge, there are bound to be layoffs of qualified people.
 
drerx7
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Sat May 26, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting billreid (Reply 44):
Unless HOU is a designated Port of Entry that means that the city of Houston MUST pay for those agents at 230,000 per agent and for the schedule that is proposed HOU will have to pay for an additional 75-100 agents.

It is a designated Port of Entry.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
gizmonc
Posts: 243
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Sat May 26, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting billreid (Reply 32):
: I personally dont think WN is run by a bunch of FOOLS.


Bud you can bet that WN has a plan it is just not exposed at this time. Gary Kelley is a bean counter and carefully plans what his next step is. WN is having growing pains in this economy but still ahead of the game. I still say the reason he purchased FL was for the ATL gates. He may take a while to do more in ATL but I do believe it is coming. WN has a small footprint at LGA and when those slots came open WN put in a bid but GK stated that B6 paid entirely to much for what they got. Slowly he will figure a way to get more flights out of LGA and probably the next move will be JFK. WN took a while to move from being the TEXAS carrier to states beyond. The Wright Amendment has been modified but in Mar 2014 aside from International flights , the BARN DOOR will open. You will see WN incease all kinds of flights out of DAL to major cities. True they might be behind the 8 ball due a reservations system but a deal has been made for that. The workers at WN continue to keep WN in some of the highest ratings among other carriers, especially Customer Service.
 
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STT757
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RE: City Of Houston Agrees With WN International Plans

Sat May 26, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 39):
Do you see UA going SNA-LAX or ISP-EWR ?

Up until about 12 years ago COEX flew EWR-ISP and EWR-ACY, both 5x daily ATR-42.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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