LY777
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Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 11:04 am

AF and TN are the only carriers that operate the route.
Why are there no US airlines on that route?
This route seems to be so profitable... I don't understand
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Byrdluvs747
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
AF and TN are the only carriers that operate the route.

If TN joins OW, then we definitely won't see AA metal on that route.

[Edited 2012-05-24 05:24:54]
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B747forever
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 11:35 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
This route seems to be so profitable...

How can you tell that?
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SRT75
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 11:43 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
This route seems to be so profitable... I

Several US carriers have had CDG service from LAX in the past, but have never been able to maintain that service. I think DL was one of the last US carriers to give it a try. With Skyteam, no need now for DL to use its own metal on that route.

Given AA's (and UA if I recall correctly) flop on the route, I'm not sure how profitable it is.
 
peanuts
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 11:43 am

DL is "doing" the route, on AF metal...
Same thing right?
This is not 1980/90's. We live in age of JV.
 
SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 11:58 am

Quoting peanuts (Reply 4):
DL is "doing" the route, on AF metal...
Same thing right?
This is not 1980/90's. We live in age of JV.

Exactly. According to RA, its the same as a DL flight...and to be treated as such.
 
jfk777
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 1:28 pm

After selling their LHR routes TWA replaced their LAX to LHR with LAX to CDG with a 763ER nonstop, usually 3 times weekly.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 2:34 pm

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
This route seems to be so profitable...

Considering TWA, AA and UA have all pulled out, I doubt it. Also UA dropped its SFO-CDG.

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
AF and TN are the only carriers that operate the route.

Remember however that a fair number of passengers for each airline are transit to French Polynesia, so its not solely a Paris-LA market these guys are carrying.

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 3):
I think DL was one of the last US carriers to give it a try.

DL never operated the route.

Its sole LAX-Europe nonstop was LAX-FRA.
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United787
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 7:01 pm

My guess:

DL - They JV with AF already as stated above.

UA - SFO would make more sense and but even though LAX and SFO are UA hubs, the route would be almost entirely O&D because UA has no feed on CDG and there would be little connecting traffic on the west end except for some inter-California flights.

AA - Same issue as UA.

If anything, I could see SFO-CDG being a future 788 route for UA...
 
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United787
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 7:04 pm

Duplicate Post

Filller - Filler - Filler

[Edited 2012-05-24 12:19:12]
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Also UA dropped its SFO-CDG.

No LAX-CDG or SFO-CDG on UA metal... Kinda shocking.   
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AirGAbon
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 9:42 pm

A lot of the high-yield passengers between CDG and LAX are only O&D from Paris, and at a lesser level France. Mostly French pax rather than US pax. So the capacity in P and J offered by AF with 2 daily 77W is enough to catch this demand.

The problem with TW, UA and AA was that their good load factor on this route, was only O&D Y passengers. Very low yields considering the distance...

And only 3 weekly flights are continuing to Tahiti, it means 17 AF weekly flights CDG-LAX-CDG. Now with the A380 there will be less frequencies.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Thu May 24, 2012 9:56 pm

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 10):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Also UA dropped its SFO-CDG.

No LAX-CDG or SFO-CDG on UA metal... Kinda shocking.

Not shocking. CDG isn't a Star Alliance hub. UA has plenty of connecting options to CDG via their other hubs and alliance partners.
 
laca773
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Fri May 25, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 11):

And only 3 weekly flights are continuing to Tahiti, it means 17 AF weekly flights CDG-LAX-CDG. Now with the A380 there will be less frequencies.

I don't believe the CDG-LAX-PPT-LAX-CDG will be affected. I believe the schedule is staying the same. It's the CDG-LAX-CDG flights that are being affected. They are going from 3x daily during the busy summer season, down to to 2x daily on the busiest days because of the upgauge of the afternoon flight from a 77W to a A388.

I'm interested to know how Air Tahiti Nui does in this market? Do they have a lot of premium demand? Flying the A343 is not very efficient with the cost of fuel being what it is. This route would be better served with a A332 or a 77E.
 
jporterfi
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Fri May 25, 2012 7:02 am

I would think some U.S. passengers would want this route enough to justify at least one U.S. airline being on this route, but I suppose AF does the job. Can anyone see AA or UA relaunching this route anytime soon? Even with AF serving the route, I would think that a flight by DL (maybe on a 763 or 764) to complement this service would be profitable and competitive, especially during seasons of high-demand.
 
laca773
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Fri May 25, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 14):
I would think some U.S. passengers would want this route enough to justify at least one U.S. airline being on this route, but I suppose AF does the job. Can anyone see AA or UA relaunching this route anytime soon? Even with AF serving the route, I would think that a flight by DL (maybe on a 763 or 764) to complement this service would be profitable and competitive, especially during seasons of high-demand.


If that's the case and there are some U.S. passengers who want to fly on a homeland carrier, so be it. AF offers a decent product nose to tail, though their J cabin needs a more modern seat and cabin, amenity kit. Across the board, their catering is better than anyone else in the market.
 
christao17
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Fri May 25, 2012 8:05 am

You can fly from LAX to CDG on UA, US, DL, and AA with only a single stop. If there isn't the demand to fill the nonstop flight profitably, there is no reason for US carriers to fly the route.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Fri May 25, 2012 6:57 pm

This route is NOT profitable for US carriers. What makes it work for AF is the beyond CDG connections. The avg fare from LAX isn't much higher than from east coast gateways. So from US carriers standpoint why fly 2000 more miles for 0$ more revenue?
 
mercure1
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Fri May 25, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
I'm interested to know how Air Tahiti Nui does in this market? Do they have a lot of premium demand?

TN primary focus is to connect FP with metropolitan France. LAX just happens to be in the middle. About 60-70% of passengers are transit, so the focus is not about trying to compete in LAX-CDG sector.
This is also the case with AF CDG-LAX-PPT service, where the bulk of passengers are transit as well via LAX.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Fri May 25, 2012 8:57 pm

I think when you subtract all the Tahiti transit passengers that both TN and AF carry, the LAX-Paris market becomes much smaller, and one that is quite leisure heavy.

It probably also says a lot about market realities, that no US carrier has been able to support LAX-Europe service beyond London over the long run in recent times. Even UA @ SFO only manages a FRA link besides LHR, and that is very much dependent on its Star/LH link.
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AADC10
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Fri May 25, 2012 9:19 pm

I speculate that UA may give SFO-CDG another shot, as well as LAX-FRA as part of their alternating season strategy. While it does not quite balance out, the plan is to use the 787s and alternate them with the 772s and 744s (and later with the A350s) is regions that have alternating seasonal demand so destinations that are stronger during the North American summer such as Asia and Europe will get larger planes in those seasons while regions that are stronger during the winter such as India, South America and Australia will get larger planes in the North American winter. Some key routes like to LHR and NRT will probably get the same size aircraft most of the year.

UA might send a 787 or converted Ghetto Bird on SFO-CDG or LAX-FRA routes as they clearly could not support a 772 but might work with a smaller plane, particularly during the summer.
 
laca773
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Sat May 26, 2012 12:40 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 20):
I speculate that UA may give SFO-CDG another shot, as well as LAX-FRA as part of their alternating season strategy. While it does not quite balance out, the plan is to use the 787s and alternate them with the 772s and 744s (and later with the A350s) is regions that have alternating seasonal demand so destinations that are stronger during the North American summer such as Asia and Europe will get larger planes in those seasons while regions that are stronger during the winter such as India, South America and Australia will get larger planes in the North American winter. Some key routes like to LHR and NRT will probably get the same size aircraft most of the year.

UA might send a 787 or converted Ghetto Bird on SFO-CDG or LAX-FRA routes as they clearly could not support a 772 but might work with a smaller plane, particularly during the summer.

In these economically turbulent times, I don't see any of this happening ever for UA. It was just a short few years ago, UA had started LAX-FRA-LAX only to end it a short time later with LH re-starting their second flight. It doesn't make sense for them to start this route even more so now, than previously.

Perhaps SFO-CDG-SFO could possibly work with the 788 or a 76W, but again, I don't see it happening. AF knows this is a leisure heavy market and thus fly it that way accordingly, with a A388 during the peak seasons which have a very large Y cabin with much smaller J & Y+ cabins (I do know they have P on this a/c, but it's just a few seats, when the rest of the year they fly this market with JWY 77E/A343/A332s. UA tried to get this market to work for years and it was a struggle for them as was LAX-CDG when they flew it years ago with the 763ER.
 
UALFAson
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Sat May 26, 2012 12:59 am

Also keep in mind the demographics of the city. Not that there aren't French or other Europeans who reside in L.A., but the city (and state of California as a whole, for that matter) have much larger Asian communities and ties to that continent, just as the U.S. East Coast has more ties to Europe than it does to Asia.

Furthermore, the flight time between the two cities is about 11 hours, making it fairly difficult for business or leisure travelers to work in a "quick" trip between the cities, the way folks in the Northeastern U.S. might be able to.

As much as I love Paris, given the price of fuel and Europe's economic woes, I don't see any U.S. airlines starting any Cali-Paris routes anytime soon.
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LJ
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RE: Why No US Airlines On The CDG-LAX Route?

Sat May 26, 2012 9:12 am

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 11):

And only 3 weekly flights are continuing to Tahiti, it means 17 AF weekly flights CDG-LAX-CDG. Now with the A380 there will be less frequencies

AF has 14 weekly CDG-LAX-CDG flights, 3 of which continue to PPT.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
They are going from 3x daily during the busy summer season, down to to 2x daily on the busiest days because of the upgauge of the afternoon flight from a 77W to a A388.

The morning flight AF066/5 is the A380, not the afternoon flight. AFAIK they'll do 14 weekly in S12 and 10 weekly in W12.