HB-IWC
Topic Author
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 7:17 am

Emirates Airlines will reduce frequency on its DXB LAX route from twice daily to just once daily from August 01. The airline will be terminating the earlier EK217/218 roundtrip, which is operating with B77W and keep the daily EK215/216, which is currently operated with the B77L.

The service reduction seems to be driven by aircraft shortages as well as route performance issues. EK has been hampered by A388 problems. The airline has grounded several of its aircraft and is facing delays in upcoming deliveries. Apart from these issues, there may also be capacity issues on the DXB LAX route, which are prompting EK to withdraw one of the flights in order to redeploy the capacity elsewhere in the network.

I would expect the airline to replace the currently scheduled B77L with the B77W for the sole remaining flight.
 
northstar80
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:29 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 7:31 am

Do you think this is partly because they are facing tough competition from TK? TK has been increasing LAX frequency and doing good on the route.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 7:35 am

I don't think the loads and yields were too shabby. Maybe the second aircraft can be used elsewhere more profitably in the short term if EK are actually short of capacity - after all, the flight is 16h each way so a single daily service uses at least two planes - but this route is a performer (so is SFO). Probably the second rotation will return when capacity issues settle down again.

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
I would expect the airline to replace the currently scheduled B77L with the B77W for the sole remaining flight.

Agreed.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
leftyboarder
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:38 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 8:22 am

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 1):
Do you think this is partly because they are facing tough competition from TK? TK has been increasing LAX frequency and doing good on the route.

I concur. LAX has traffic mostly to Iran and the Middle East rather than India (unlike SFO or SEA). DXB involves backtracking for most of those.
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 9:14 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
EK has been hampered by A388 problems.

Such as? I'm not familiar with EK and their A380s.

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
The airline has grounded several of its aircraft and is facing delays in upcoming deliveries.

Why have they grounded planes? Are delivery delays from Boeing or Airbus?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 4453
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 9:24 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 2):
I don't think the loads and yields were too shabby. Maybe the second aircraft can be used elsewhere more profitably

So when EK added DFW, they took IAH from 2x to 1x daily. Maybe EK is looking to add another destination with the aircraft taken off the LAX run. I think this has been asked before, so please excuse me if this is beaten to death already, but the EK 380's don't have the legs for LAX n/s right? If they did, I'd even speculate an upgauge from a single 777 to 388.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
Quokkas
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 9:34 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 4):
Such as? I'm not familiar with EK and their A380s.

Aircraft have been taken out of service for inspections and repairs due to the infamous cracks issue.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
Danfearn77
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:52 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 11:28 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 2):

The next day, 01AUG, EK upgrade their morning flight at MAN, the EK21/22. It upgrades from an A332 to a 777. Although in fairness I think it's a 773 and not this displaced 77W that takes over.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
 
G500
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:45 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 11:51 am

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 3):
I concur. LAX has traffic mostly to Iran and the Middle East rather than India (unlike SFO or SEA). DXB involves backtracking for most of those.

good post, and probably a big reason why yields are hurting
 
something
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:29 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 11:56 am

DXB-LAX-DXB is a very long flight, so maintaining multiple frequencies becomes negligible as long as seamless connections to the most heavily requested destinations are offered. I would not be surprised if both LAX, SFO and IAH were transformed into daily A388s operations (aircraft's specs permitting) and the freed up 77Ws used to open up new destinations.

But there is probably more to the story. TK offers a vastly superior product especially in economy and first (9 abreast vs. 10 abreast, got a chef onboard vs warmed up galley menus), they offer an economy plus and don't require one to backtrack. They probably fly to more destinations in the region than EK as well. And then there is LH. I know a bunch of Iranians in Orange County and Long Beach, and they all fly LH whenever they visit Europe or 'home'. Their 744s are a bit dated, but that is bound to change with the introduction of the 748 on the route.

Lastly, EK has to carry a lot of fuel on those ULH. Weight that European based airlines can use as cargo revenue.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 12:14 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 2):
). Probably the second rotation will return when capacity issues settle down again.
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
So when EK added DFW, they took IAH from 2x to 1x daily. Maybe EK is looking to add another destination with the aircraft taken off the LAX run.

I agree. Probably a similar issue to IAH. Using marginally profitable route/aircraft to open another destination. The second frequency should be back.

Quoting something (Reply 9):
IAH were transformed into daily A388s operations (aircraft's specs permitting) and the freed up 77Ws used to open up new destinations.

IAH second Frequency has already been announced as coming back. Not quite sure of the date but there is a thread on it in on the HAS spotters site
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
planejamie
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:41 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 7):
The next day, 01AUG, EK upgrade their morning flight at MAN, the EK21/22. It upgrades from an A332 to a 777. Although in fairness I think it's a 773 and not this displaced 77W that takes over.

Oh joy... more traffic for EK to flood MAN with and plaque the surrounding area. Also more poor people that are going to be drawn in to flying on them (everyone I know that's flown on EK said never again).

Still, reducing LAX (as people have said above) is probably due to a shortage of A380s and not poor yields, after all EK do seem to fill their planes (making that 10 abreast on a 777 even worse than it already is)
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11833
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 3:04 pm

I'm surprised to see this. This implies worse premium yield than I thought EK was able to maintain. Is this due to TK? A drop in front cabin yield? I suspect a drop in demand of West coast US to India, but that is just a hunch based on where the people I know are traveling. I would say 60% of those that used to frequently fly to India for business are now going to Thailand or Malaysia; but my sample set is too small to mean anything definitive.

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
there may also be capacity issues on the DXB LAX route, which are prompting EK to withdraw one of the flights in order to redeploy the capacity elsewhere in the network.

If that is the case, than the only way to increase capacity is with reduced RASM. (A380)

Quoting g500 (Reply 8):
and probably a big reason why yields are hurting

I knew Y had poor yields. This implies the front cabin yields are too low too.

Quoting something (Reply 9):
I would not be surprised if both LAX, SFO and IAH were transformed into daily A388s operations (aircraft's specs permitting) and the freed up 77Ws used to open up new destinations.

I would expect that too. The question is, will next year's A388 with the wing twist and MTOW increase have the economical range for DXB-LAX-DXB at EK's very heavy cabin fittings? I would expect JFK to become a daily A388 later too and JFK 2x/day A388. I suspect it will take some time to grow IAD.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 10):
I agree. Probably a similar issue to IAH. Using marginally profitable route/aircraft to open another destination. The second frequency should be back.

One could hope that is the reason. I wonder what the new destination might be? Or is this for capacity to run the A380s through the infamous wing crack repair?

Quoting something (Reply 9):
Lastly, EK has to carry a lot of fuel on those ULH. Weight that European based airlines can use as cargo revenue.

Which makes the flight less competitive for backtracking.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 3:54 pm

Its certainly not loads - in 2011 EK averaged 76.3 LF, and so far 2012 78.8%.

Me says its more to do with the economic nature of the ULH operation, combined with aircraft availability, and desire to utilize them on more profitable flying.

Running a 8300 miles trip is surely challenging in the best economic times and requires good fortune of loads, yield, and reasonable cost such as fuel.

Though, I will say folks like TK, BA, LH, SQ etc will be happy. Removes some seats from the LAX market, and makes them more appealing for 1-stops that EK could have carried before.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
laca773
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting something (Reply 9):
But there is probably more to the story. TK offers a vastly superior product especially in economy and first (9 abreast vs. 10 abreast, got a chef onboard vs warmed up galley menus), they offer an economy plus and don't require one to backtrack. They probably fly to more destinations in the region than EK as well. And then there is LH. I know a bunch of Iranians in Orange County and Long Beach, and they all fly LH whenever they visit Europe or 'home'. Their 744s are a bit dated, but that is bound to change with the introduction of the 748 on the route.

It's well known EK is having issues with their A380 fleet and have been making downgauges on many routes so they can move a/c around to accomodate their flight schedules.

Isn't it true EK wasn't having to discount Y tickets because of the strong demand for their direct service to DXB and fast connections to India and the rest of the middle east? Would the entry of TK into the LA market affect it that much. At the same time, TK has the advantage of being in Star Alliance, so those who are loyal to Star are likely to fly TK over EK.
I think it's widely known TK has more consistent, better service that EK.

I believe the A380s serving SFO & LAX is not possible right now without having to take marked restrictions. I believe they are waiting for the IGW A380s or is it a A380-900?
 
migair54
Posts: 2118
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:24 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 6:12 pm

Reducing capacity will improve the yields and the performance of the route, not everything is capacity, check that they will leave the route on B77L and not B77W, so they are after the yields, only 4 less seat on First but same in business, less in economy but they will pay higher prices due to the fewer offer.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 14):
I believe the A380s serving SFO & LAX is not possible right now without having to take marked restrictions. I believe they are waiting for the IGW A380s or is it a A380-900?

Maybe SFO but I´m not sure if they will upgrade LAX to A380 even if they could make the route. to do that flight daily they need like 2-3 planes and you can see they are reducing to only 1 B77L.
 
boysteve
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
Oh joy... more traffic for EK to flood MAN with and plaque the surrounding area. Also more poor people that are going to be drawn in to flying on them (everyone I know that's flown on EK said never again).

Errr I am not sure why this troubles you so please explain. I have flown EK several times ex-MAN and would gladly do so again, in fact I am in September! Given the choice of heading East on my holidays on an EK A388 or going west on AA metal from MAN then their is simply no comparison, especially in Y! It's EK over AA all the way.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
So when EK added DFW, they took IAH from 2x to 1x daily.

I did read on another thread on here that EK noticed a sizeable number of their pax ex-IAH started their journey at DFW on other carriers, so they just cut out the middle man so to speak.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2358
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 6:34 pm

For ultra long haul markets, having more than one flight a day must be very challenging economically with fuel costs, personnel costs, and then double the seats to fill in the front of the plane. 2 daily LAX-DXB flights is 4 dedicated aircraft? That's incredible. The economics of the route have to be near amazing to warrant to such an intense commitment of resources. And especially in this economic climate I don't think LAX-DXB meets this standard.

More than once daily long haul flying must offer superior economic returns to justify an enormous commitment of resources. I think of CO doing IAH-LHR and EWR-TLV (now UA). These two routes certainly meet a high performance standard.

Plus there are other carriers competing for the same revenue between LAX and middle/far east.
 
peanuts
Posts: 822
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:17 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 15):
check that they will leave the route on B77L and not B77W, so they are after the yields, only 4 less seat on First but same in business, less in economy but they will pay higher prices due to the fewer offer.

That's all fine and dandy in theory but you can't discount here what your competition may or may not do...
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 7:10 pm

Link?

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
The service reduction seems to be driven by aircraft shortages...The airline has grounded several of its aircraft and is facing delays in upcoming deliveries. Apart from these issues, there may also be capacity issues on the DXB LAX route,


No issues on Boeing's side... EK has taken (3) factory new 77W so far this year and they must like it that much they ordered (50) more back in 11/2011. What are you referring too as far as upcoming delivery delays... A388 wing issues holding them up?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 3263
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 7:57 pm

Am I reading this correct, the way the thread is running on this subject.
TK appears to be offering a better First Class experience than EK in the air?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
edgaren
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:52 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 8:06 pm

Wow 4 aircraft involved in 2 ulh flights ???....Can someone please care to elaborate more on the logistics of such operarations ?? I dont think I fully understand it.
 
leftyboarder
Posts: 742
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:38 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 20):
Am I reading this correct, the way the thread is running on this subject.
TK appears to be offering a better First Class experience than EK in the air?

TK does not offer F, rather Y, Y+ and C. Regarding front cabin, EK still has the advantage of F to LAX (as far as I know the a/c they fly there has this right?) but in terms of C TK is slightly better. And EK doesn't have Y+.

Also, overall, EK involves backtracking for some destinations.

But of course to claim TK is the sole reason behind EK's reduction is not something we can back up, as only EK management knows that  
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 3263
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 22):
TK does not offer F
Turkish Airlines First Class On TK 1 June 2010 (by Carfield Jun 12 2010 in Trip Reports)

 
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 2021
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 19):
No issues on Boeing's side... EK has taken (3) factory new 77W so far this year and they must like it that much they ordered (50) more back in 11/2011. What are you referring too as far as upcoming delivery delays... A388 wing issues holding them up?
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 4):
Why have they grounded planes? Are delivery delays from Boeing or Airbus?

I noticed that there is a missunderstanding: EK's next two A 380s are late. One of them has been ferried back to TLS from XFW, most probably to make the temporary modification works. In the past EK sent B 77Ws when having a shortage of A 380s.
 
AirStairs
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 8:58 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 23):

IIRC they have offered F using the Jet Airways product that already existed on their secondhand 77Ws, but have phased that out in favor of Y/Y+/C only as they retrofitted the 77W fleet.
 
Ditzyboy
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:15 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 9:00 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 23):
Turkish Airlines First Class On TK 1 June 2010

It is hard to provide a direct link, but you can check their website. There is no mention of an F product and it is not indicated on the seat maps.

http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-au...rgo-airbus-boeing-all-flight-fleet

You are correct to recall that there was briefly an F product. It was on the 77Ws leased from 9W. I am not sure if the F thing was an experiment, or if TK intended to make F a permanent feature. Nevertheless, it was not part of cabin products on their first delivered 77Ws.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 23):

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 22):
TK does not offer F
Turkish Airlines First Class On TK 1 June 2010 (by Carfield Jun 12 2010 in Trip Reports)

 

TK leased 777s from Jet Airways temporarily and used the First cabin that came with the planes. They've since been returned, and the TK 777 fleet purchased directly from Boeing has no First Class.
International Homo of Mystery
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 9:04 pm

F class was only offered on the Jet Airways 77W as TK kept the 9W configuration. Those birds are gone now that its own 12 77W's have been delivered.

Currently its business, premium econ and regular econ.



=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11833
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Mon May 28, 2012 10:36 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 14):
I believe the A380s serving SFO & LAX is not possible right now without having to take marked restrictions. I believe they are waiting for the IGW A380s or is it a A380-900?

You are correct. However, the 'wing twist' should reduce fuel burn 1.5%. The higher MTOW (IGW) version would also be required. However, in the case of EK, they also need to lighten their cabin fittings. A few extra tons of wood and such is hurting their payload at range. I see no reason the 2013 EK A388s couldn't fly DXB-LAX-DXB, but only if the cabin fittings were lightened. I've heard rumors EK is buying lighter cabin fittings, but I know zero details (nor if it is true).

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
HB-IWC
Topic Author
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 12:24 am

Further to my original post, Emirates will also be temporarily reducing frequency on the DXB CPT route from twice daily to daily from September 01 onwards when the early morning rotation EK772/773 will be suspended as the airline copes with delayed A388 deliveries.

[Edited 2012-05-28 17:28:07]
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18998
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 6):
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 4):
Such as? I'm not familiar with EK and their A380s.

Aircraft have been taken out of service for inspections and repairs due to the infamous cracks issue.

Not only EK is affected by the wing cracking issue. Recent Aviation Week item:
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/awx_05_24_2012_p0-461578.xml&p=1
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 3:48 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 24):
I noticed that there is a misunderstanding: EK's next two A 380s are late. One of them has been ferried back to TLS from XFW, most probably to make the temporary modification works. In the past EK sent B 77Ws when having a shortage of A 380s.

Thanks for clearing this up as the o/t poster didn't make it clear.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
delta2ual
Posts: 558
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:18 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 4:03 am

Quoting boysteve (Reply 16):
Given the choice of heading East on my holidays on an EK A388 or going west on AA metal from MAN then their is simply no comparison, especially in Y! It's EK over AA all the way.

I'm sorry, so you're saying you choose where you holiday based on what airline flies there? So, you'd never go west of the UK because EK doesn't fly west from there?
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11833
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 24):
EK's next two A 380s are late.

Thank you. Between that and the A380s out of service due to wing crack repairs, I could see why a few 77Ws would be pulled.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 30):
Emirates will also be temporarily reducing frequency on the DXB CPT route from twice daily to daily from September 01 onwards when the early morning rotation EK772/773 will be suspended as the airline copes with delayed A388 deliveries.

Interesting. Unfortunately, that just 'broadcast' which routes are weak.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 31):
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/awx_05_24_2012_p0-461578.xml&p=1

Interesting tidbit:
"The aircraft maker next year expects to deliver the first A380 to Emirates Airline with 575 metric tons maximum takeoff weight (MTOW), which boosts the aircraft’s range to 8,500 nm."

If it is 8,500nm, a slightly lighter EK cabin fitting should open up DXB-LAX-DXB!   

I'd like to know more about the 490t and 510t versions of the A380...

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
boysteve
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 6:02 am

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 33):
I'm sorry, so you're saying you choose where you holiday based on what airline flies there?

It's a holiday, I do what suits me for what I can afford and being a plane nut that's a big part of it yes. But explaining myself is going off topic so I apologise to others.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 6:06 am

Assuming the bulk of EK LAX traffic is to India, given current yields and fuel prices perhaps with an ULH sector they are at an operational competitive disadvantage compared to European carriers?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 1):

Do you think this is partly because they are facing tough competition from TK? TK has been increasing LAX frequency and doing good on the route.

This is a huge point. The combination of TK, plus the entrenched EU carriers - especially LH and KL - doesn't help.

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 36):
Assuming the bulk of EK LAX traffic is to India

Not a good assumption.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24560
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 7:21 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):
Quoting eta unknown (Reply 36):
Assuming the bulk of EK LAX traffic is to India

Not a good assumption.

The three largest feed makers for EK's LAX flight are DEL, BOM and BLR. It's a perfectly good assumption.
a.
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2617
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 7:31 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 38):
The three largest feed makers for EK's LAX flight are DEL, BOM and BLR. It's a perfectly good assumption.

Close, but not quite:

Top 10 markets.

DXB
IKA
BOM
DEL
HYD
MAA
BLR
RUH
AMD
KHI
DAC
 
behramjee
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 11:21 am

The actual top 15 markets for EK on the LAX route over the past 12 months were as follows:

DXB 50,000 pax
BOM 24,000 pax
DEL 23,000 pax
IKA 21,000 pax
HYD 16,000 pax
MAA 11,000 pax
BLR 10,000 pax
AMD 10,000 pax
RUH 8000 pax
KHI 7000 pax
JED 6000 pax
DAC 5000 pax
COK/JNB/CMB 4000 pax each respectively
 
sq_ek_freak
Posts: 1179
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 4:48 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting something (Reply 9):
But there is probably more to the story. TK offers a vastly superior product especially in economy and first

I don't believe TK offers First Class anymore. Their Biz product does look outstanding though.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Its certainly not loads - in 2011 EK averaged 76.3 LF, and so far 2012 78.8%.

Me says its more to do with the economic nature of the ULH operation, combined with aircraft availability, and desire to utilize them on more profitable flying.

        

Quoting behramjee (Reply 40):

BOM 24,000 pax
DEL 23,000 pax

It really does seem sometimes that the flight is headed to India rather than DXB. The same can be said for JFK.
Keep Discovering
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2152
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Tue May 29, 2012 5:08 pm

Somehow I suspected that when EK pulled the second daily IAH flight, that LAX would follow the same path. I know that I am comparing two different cities, but overall the move doesn't surprise me given that they are both ULH, and this reflects more on EK heavily monitoring costly routes after such severe downturns in premium traffic.

I agree that the A380 issues was one major driving factor, but also the fact that the Star carriers at LAX are ramping up nicely - TK and LH with the 748-I as examples.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3720
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Wed May 30, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 42):
Somehow I suspected that when EK pulled the second daily IAH flight, that LAX would follow the same path. I know that I am comparing two different cities, but overall the move doesn't surprise me given that they are both ULH,

Again IAH is on its way back, the timeline is over in the Houston Spotters site as the exact month escapes me now. IAH was dropped to start DFW during an aircraft shortage and get a heads up on the competition, not because it had bad yields.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13763
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Wed May 30, 2012 1:24 am

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 41):
It really does seem sometimes that the flight is headed to India rather than DXB. The same can be said for JFK.

101,000 to India v. 50,000 to DXB.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4457
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Wed May 30, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 43):
Again IAH is on its way back, the timeline is over in the Houston Spotters site as the exact month escapes me now. IAH was dropped to start DFW during an aircraft shortage and get a heads up on the competition, not because it had bad yields.

Officially it is not.

EK has said nothing of it and its not on the schedules. Houston Spotters is not a source.

It may come back in the future, but until then, chill out.

[Edited 2012-05-29 18:38:02]
It is what it is...
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Wed May 30, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting boysteve (Reply 35):
It's a holiday, I do what suits me for what I can afford and being a plane nut that's a big part of it yes. But explaining myself is going off topic so I apologise to others.

No need to apologize mate... guaranteed most people on here do the same thing but wouldn't admit to it. Cheers to you for being the bigger man!
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
astuteman
Posts: 6341
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Wed May 30, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Interesting tidbit:
"The aircraft maker next year expects to deliver the first A380 to Emirates Airline with 575 metric tons maximum takeoff weight (MTOW), which boosts the aircraft’s range to 8,500 nm."

If it is 8,500nm, a slightly lighter EK cabin fitting should open up DXB-LAX-DXB!

It almost certainly will, especially if (as I understand it) the 2013 planes get the 1% improvement in SFC that is supposed to be coming through (on top of the new wing twist)

Rgds
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11833
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Wed May 30, 2012 5:11 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 47):
It almost certainly will, especially if (as I understand it) the 2013 planes get the 1% improvement in SFC that is supposed to be coming through (on top of the new wing twist)

I hope so. My rumor mill has gone dead quiet on the GP7200. I'm hearing more about the RR PIP on the T900 than the GP7200. If it is a 1% drop in TSFC and 1.5% due to the wing twist, that adds over 200nm to the A380 range!    Before we even talk about the benefit of the higher MTOW.

Heck, my rumor mill is so dry, I haven't even heard what thrust level the GP72XX will be at for the new 575 metric tons take off weight variant. I suspect a small bump above 72k, but I have nothing but my own 'gut feel' on that.

The original plan was
MTOW (tons) Thrust
560 70k
590 77k

So I wonder if there will be a 74k or 75k plug for the 575 metric ton version?    Or just use the 77k and do all derated takeoffs?    I suspect EK will need more thrust for the LAX takeoff (heck, it is 380nm less distance to MEL and QF is utilizing high thrust). However, I'm not involved in the weight added versus thrust and the 575t MTOW is trying to be done with minimal additional weight (it isn't the A388R by any means). To me, the 575t variant is going to be a very interesting optimization.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
astuteman
Posts: 6341
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: Emirates To Reduce LAX

Wed May 30, 2012 6:31 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 48):
However, I'm not involved in the weight added versus thrust and the 575t MTOW is trying to be done with minimal additional weight

There's no added weight for the 575t as far as I'm aware - it's a paper upgrade.
Funnily enough, the 2013 frames (for EK at least) should actually be about 4t lighter, thanks to 2t off the airframe (by Airbus) and 2t out of the cabin (by EK).

I make the 575t A380 in EK guise (ignoring any SFC gain) to make the 7 500Nm ESAD of DXB-LAX with a ZFW of 352 tonnes, tanking 223 tonnes of fuel.
With 4 tonnes off, these frames should have a DOW (including catering) of 296 tonnes.
Allowing a payload of 56 tonnes - i.e. full pax and about 10t of cargo.

EK's 352t 773ER's currently employed on the route, I make to have a ZFW of 212 tonnes on 7 500Nm ESAD, tanking 140 tonnes fuel.
I understand their DOW, including catering, to be about 175 tonnes
Giving a payload of 37 tonnes

That 4t off the A380's is quite significant in this application.

Curiously, a 575t A380 with SQ's or QF's DOW should be good for about 64 tonnes of payload on the same mission  

Rgds