gilesdavies
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 12:17 pm

I don't really get the thread...

Of course the COO of Airbus is going to say the A350-1000 is better than the 777-300ER, they are barely going to say otherwise.

Also it would be pretty disastrous for an airliner manufacturer to build an aircraft almost 15 years after the 777-300ER was launched that is it meant to compete against, that wasn't better or improved.

But considering Airbus hasn't had any orders since 2008 that would seem to be a concern...

After issues with new aircraft like the A380 and 787, with delays and manufacturing issues cropping up, it makes me wonder if airlines are getting cold feet about ordering aircraft that currently only exist on paper and have not yet been built.

Also it goes as testament to the 777-300ER, on what an excellent aircraft it is and how over the years, it seems to have exceeded most airlines expectation and still continues to pull numerous orders from airlines that haven't operated the type previously. Even though was launched over a decade ago.
 
747400sp
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 12:18 pm

Lets, just wait until the A350 1000 hit the skies.
 
EWRandMDW
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 12:20 pm

Well, he's right ... in a sense. The 777-300ER is real and flying passengers worldwide while the A350-1000 exists on computer screens and blueprints. The 777 has a phantom plane to compete against!
 
Navion
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 12:25 pm

I too found Leahy's comment to be a non-starter as a) it is obvious an aircraft designed almost 15 years after it's intended competition should have some performance improvements and b) Boeing is readying a response when they feel the time is right in the form of the 777X family. Maybe Leahy is taking a proactive approach (i.e. going on the offensive) as he may feel troubled by the interest of some of his customers in the 777X?
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 12:30 pm

It seems logical that the 777-300ER would not compete with the A350-1000.

Leahey's main problem now is that as the A350-1000's EIS is pushed farther and farther to the right, customers are buying 777-300ERs in the interim and that means less of them need an A350-1000 once slots become available.

Quoting Navion (Reply 4):
Maybe Leahy is taking a proactive approach (i.e. going on the offensive) as he may feel troubled by the interest of some of his customers in the 777X?

With the 777X and A350-1000 EIS relatively close (and perhaps getting closer if the A350 program is delayed even more), once airlines are ready to start ordering A350-1000s, Boeing's RFP will more and more not be the 777-300ER, but instead the 777-8 and 777-9.
 
KBJCpilot
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 12:40 pm

He's a salesman. Of course his product is better, prettier, and smells better. Let's just wait until the A350-1000 is really ready to fly and see how his story will compare to reality.
Samsonite, I was way off!
 
pliersinsight
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 12:42 pm

Quoting Navion (Reply 4):
I too found Leahy's comment to be a non-starter as a) it is obvious an aircraft designed almost 15 years after it's intended competition should have some performance improvements and b) Boeing is readying a response when they feel the time is right in the form of the 777X family. Maybe Leahy is taking a proactive approach (i.e. going on the offensive) as he may feel troubled by the interest of some of his customers in the 777X?

It also depends on what you are going to pay for your 777, depending on the discount, the performance increase of the 350 might not be worth the expense up front.
 
col
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 1:26 pm

Just reduce the 77W noise and I will be happy. Seriously though, didn't we have the same topic in Jan, then Feb, then March, then Apri, guess you can see where I am going. Sad thing is that we won't know the answer for a few more years, and Leahy will probably be retired.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 1:28 pm

JL is the gift that keeps giving.  He should be in the arms business, He provides endless ammunition for wars.
Seriously, sell A3510s first, talk later.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 1:39 pm

Dear Mr. Mouth:

Maybe 777-300ER cannot compete with A350-1000.
However, I assure you that 777-9X can.

Signed: the Mighty Triple Seven fan.
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 1:44 pm

Leahy is right that the biggest problem with the A350-1000 is when an airline can get its grubby paws on it. With that being so far in the future, and uncertain at that, and with Boeing planning a response that also at this point is undefined, it is not surprising that customers are sitting on their hands right now. Once the 777X is launched, and the A359 is flying (giving better certainty as to how the A3510 will perform) then we will see how they will compare.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 1:47 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 1):
But considering Airbus hasn't had any orders since 2008 that would seem to be a concern..
Quoting Cerecl (Reply 9):
Seriously, sell A3510s first, talk later.

You both miss the point that has been stated here on A-net over and over again, and which just recently was also confirmed by Boeing on their 777-RFP's. Availability is the biggest problem. As JL quotes:

Even though there have been no new orders for the A350-1000 since 2008, Leahy was bullish about its prospects. “Boeing only started talking about a new 777X after the A350-1000 came out,” he said. “Boeing knows the 777 won’t compete and that’s why they talk about folding wings and crazy things like that,” he said.

He said the most common question that he gets asked is “when can I get availability on the A350?”

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
With the 777X and A350-1000 EIS relatively close (and perhaps getting closer if the A350 program is delayed even more), once airlines are ready to start ordering A350-1000s, Boeing's RFP will more and more not be the 777-300ER, but instead the 777-8 and 777-9.

That is my expectation as well. So then we will see how good both new or renewed offerings are to the customers.

That the "old" B77W will loose against the A350-1000 is just about every thinkable way is logical and comes as no surprise. Boeing knew they would not stand a chance just as the A346 was overtaken by that same B77W. The A35J vs. the B777X is the next interesting contest.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 1:58 pm

John Leahy, Airbus' main salesman, an American who lives in France and doesn't speak French what an oxymoron. Could the world imagine Boeing having a German or French man selling their planes, the unions would have something to say about that. Such a person would have to speak English as it is the " linga franca " of aviation. Leahy a character of French proprtions.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 10):
Dear Mr. Mouth:

Maybe 777-300ER cannot compete with A350-1000.
However, I assure you that 777-9X can.

Signed: the Mighty Triple Seven fan.

I couldn't have put it better myself  

I tend to not pay any attention to anything Mr Leahy says. As Airbus' most prominent salesman, he's hardly going to say anything different, is he?
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
PlaneAdmirer
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 2:16 pm

JL sold a lot of A330's because they are available when the 787 isn't or wasn't. I fail to see how this isn't the reverse.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 2:32 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 1):
Of course the COO of Airbus is going to say the A350-1000 is better than the 777-300ER, they are barely going to say otherwise.

Of course it can't compete - its a paper airplane vs. a flying airplane.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 10):
Dear Mr. Mouth:

Maybe 777-300ER cannot compete with A350-1000.
However, I assure you that 777-9X

Signed: the Mighty Triple Seven fan.

This should read "Dear Mr. Leahy c/o Airbus Toulouse, France..."
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):
Lets, just wait until the A350 1000 hit the skies.

Clearly Leahy would prefer that customers order right now instead of waiting till A351 is flying and/or in revenue service with someone else.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Leahey's main problem now is that as the A350-1000's EIS is pushed farther and farther to the right, customers are buying 777-300ERs in the interim and that means less of them need an A350-1000 once slots become available.

His other main problem is that some important customers are bad-mouthing it in public.

Add that to:

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 1):
After issues with new aircraft like the A380 and 787, with delays and manufacturing issues cropping up, it makes me wonder if airlines are getting cold feet about ordering aircraft that currently only exist on paper and have not yet been built.

and it's no surprise that Leahy is trying to create some interest in the product, even via pointing out his non-existing plane will outperform Boeing's existing plane while ignoring Boeing's next non-existing plane.

I suppose it's time for Randy to make some comments about his non-existing 787-9 beating up Leahy's non-existing A350 line?
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
John Leahy, Airbus' main salesman, an American who lives in France and doesn't speak French what an oxymoron.

On oxymoron is a rhetoric device. This is not what it means, and not how it is used. At all.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
Could the world imagine Boeing having a German or French man selling their planes, the unions would have something to say about that.

Something to truly be proud of.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
That the "old" B77W will loose against the A350-1000 is just about every thinkable way is logical and comes as no surprise.

General consensus appears to be otherwise. From what is being voiced, the A35K will be better on missions up to 6000nm stage length. On longer flights, the 77W remains superior. Even with the new stretched design, the A35K will not be able to replace the 77Ws on all of its missions.

There are markets for both planes, the 77W and the A35K. Purchasing decisions will be dependent on a number of factors, as each operator has its own requirements. Neither plane is going to kill the other off.

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 15):
JL sold a lot of A330's because they are available when the 787 isn't or wasn't. I fail to see how this isn't the reverse.

  

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 16):
Of course it can't compete - its a paper airplane vs. a flying airplane.

To keep you abreast with the development of the last 20 or so years: Airplanes are not designed on paper anymore. They use computer technology these days. These computers use data collected in real life experiences and apply them to said models. As a result, they produce fairly accurate estimates about a machine's real life performance.

This isn't as much of a knee-slapper as referring to the A350 as a 'paper plane', admittedly, but it helps gauging the credibility of such statements. It's obvious that Leahy will emphasize the upsides of his products and that he might even be inclined to embellish the truth a little bit. But that doesn't at all mean that his claims are unsubstantiated fairytales.

As much as many would probably like to think that..
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 3:20 pm

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 6):
He's a salesman. Of course his product is better, prettier, and smells better. Let's just wait until the A350-1000 is really ready to fly and see how his story will compare to reality.

It's getting funny to take Leahy's comments about his products and put it back on a conversation some years ahead, just to see how he's as ridiculous as arrogant.
The A350-1000 will be nothing more than a revamped A330 and I think Airbus is getting pretty embarrassed with that...
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
 
ebbuk
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 3:34 pm

It must be a public holiday in a lot of countries. The usual band of boeing boys are peppering this thread with their wisdoms.

JL is right and we all know it. Will it sell more? Will it hit its design targets? Will it fly on time? These are things we don't know
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 3:45 pm

People fault the guy for doing his job. I take any marketers claims with a grain of salt because I am one of them. I know that it is his job to portray his product in as good a light as possible. Read between the lines and translate the marketing speak into English. In this case you can hear his boss or the Board of Directors saying, "John get out in front of this issue and start countering the lack of sales for the 350-1000, and start spinning like a top." You don't have to like the guy (I am not a fan), but at the same time read statements with a grain of salt, but don't hate the guy for doing his spin.
 
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neutrino
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 3:49 pm

Quoting something (Reply 19):

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 16):
Of course it can't compete - its a paper airplane vs. a flying airplane.

To keep you abreast with the development of the last 20 or so years: Airplanes are not designed on paper anymore. They use computer technology these days.


Call it a pixel airplane then.  
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
neutronstar73
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 3:51 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
He said the most common question that he gets asked is “when can I get availability on the A350?”

Well, Mr. Leahy's answer to that question should have been: "Well, I've just had an opening for several A350-1000s since I had one of my major customers CANCEL several of theirs, so show me the money!"

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 21):
It must be a public holiday in a lot of countries. The usual band of boeing boys are peppering this thread with their wisdoms.

Here we go....somehow I knew this would show up.  

[Edited 2012-05-28 08:56:18]
 
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airmagnac
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 24):
Here we go....somehow I knew this would should up.

Well if the discussion would focus on explaining/demonstrating why the proposition "The Airbus A350-1000 will beat the Boeing 777-300ER on range and fuel burn per passenge" is not true, instead of merely bashing the messenger, maybe it wouldn't show up
My goal as an engineer is to fill my soul with coffee and become immortal
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 4:09 pm

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 25):

Well if the discussion would focus on explaining/demonstrating why the proposition "The Airbus A350-1000 will beat the Boeing 777-300ER on range and fuel burn per passenge" is not true, instead of merely bashing the messenger, maybe it wouldn't show up

As one of those Boeing boys, I have never doubted that the A3510 will beat the existing 77W on range and fuel burn per passenger. The question is how the A3510 will stack up on range and fuel burn per passenger against the 777X, and that is not something that we know much about yet. Since the customers do not know either, nor do they know when they can get either one, those that need planes NOW are buying 77W's. Those that can wait are sitting on their hands.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 4:09 pm

Quoting airproxx (Reply 20):
It's getting funny to take Leahy's comments about his products and put it back on a conversation some years ahead, just to see how he's as ridiculous as arrogant.

Geez, this from someone without the stars and bars next to their name?

You are giving some folks indigestion!

It seems it's time to put this one out again:

Quote:

"Having gone through the A380, learning from our mistakes, watching what is happening with the 787, and coming out four years after the 787, I think we should all be shot for gross incompetence if we have another screw up in the A350 programme. I'm sure we'll be on target."

John Leahy, 2009.

Ref: http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/...Number=2&virtualBrandChannel=11604

It's hard to know which orifice Mr. Leahy is using when he speaks. Some time it's the mouth, some times it's the back side.
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iFlyLOTs
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting something (Reply 19):
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 16):
Of course it can't compete - its a paper airplane vs. a flying airplane.

To keep you abreast with the development of the last 20 or so years: Airplanes are not designed on paper anymore. They use computer technology these days. These computers use data collected in real life experiences and apply them to said models. As a result, they produce fairly accurate estimates about a machine's real life performance.

I'm sure they could print whats on the screen, making it a paper airplane.
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
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airmagnac
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 5:14 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 26):
As one of those Boeing boys


To be clear, I didn't have "Boeing Boys" in mind when I posted, as I think most of those Boys would be mature enough to discuss the merits of their favorite planes against those of the competition without sinking down to insulting a guy who just stated something quite obviously true. And your post shows that !
JL-bashing doesn't necessarily relate to A vs B, it seems to be a sport in its own league  
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 26):
The question is how the A3510 will stack up on range and fuel burn per passenger against the 777X


Actually the Leahy quote in the article only compares the A350-1000 and the 77W. He only mentions the 77X as the answer to the A350-1000 (to reinforce the argument that the 77W can't cut it).
His declarations could be confirmed or rejected by studying/guessing the performances of the respective aircraft. Instead we just get some crude, despising posts about JL. We already know he's a great salesguy with a mouth that can sometimes be too big for his own good. So what's the point ? Don't shoot the messenger, just prove the message is wrong !

As for the sales status, obviously the A350-1000 is not selling vs the 77W. Most likely because delivery dates are too far away and too uncertain, regardless of performance differences between the two.
So the A3510 can very well "be superior" (performance-wise) to the 77W, but sell less ; the two propositions are not contradictory.
Of course JL will choose to point out the proposition that is more positive for his product : that's his job !




[Edited 2012-05-28 10:37:40 subtly rephrased the part about the article mentioning 77X and A350. I made it sound like I think the 77W is on the way out, whereas several Tech/Ops threads have shown that it has a similar payload/range chart than the A3510, and has several other arguments running for it. It is a great plane with many more sucessful years ahead !]

[Edited 2012-05-28 10:44:31]
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astuteman
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 29):
Actually the Leahy quote in the article only compares the A350-1000 and the 77W

Seems to have been lost in amongst the rush to stick the knife in somewhere.....

The 773ER CAN compete on a combination of availability and performance, making up in the former anything it loses in the latter (just as the A330 has with the 787)

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 29):
It only mentions the 77X as the answer to the A350-1000 (reinforcing the argument that the 77W can't cut it).

And reinforcing the argument that Boeing ARE working on something that can.......

JL certainly isn't the only one who can make a loud whistling noise when they want to.....  
Quoting airproxx (Reply 20):
It's getting funny to take Leahy's comments about his products and put it back on a conversation some years ahead, just to see how he's as ridiculous as arrogant.

Seeing this, in the same post as......

Quoting airproxx (Reply 20):
The A350-1000 will be nothing more than a revamped A330 and I think Airbus is getting pretty embarrassed with that...

sometimes you just got to listen to the subject matter experts......  

Rgds
 
BLIKSEM
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 10):
Maybe 777-300ER cannot compete with A350-1000.
However, I assure you that 777-9X can

I fully agree with you .I am sure that Boeing wiil do their homework to ensure that their
worldbeater remains just that. Dream on Leahy.
 
peanuts
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 5:49 pm

Let's just look at the article this thread is supposedly based on:
It's a crap article. Nothing substantial. Used car salesman talk. Not very becoming for an Airbus Salesman. Gorilla thumping chest...

Not sure what the purpose of JL or ATW is with this article...

Let's talk about merit of the planes itself and their place in time of their actual operation.

[Edited 2012-05-28 10:50:10]
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
Could the world imagine Boeing having a German or French man selling their planes

What does nationality have to do with selling planes?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
It's hard to know which orifice Mr. Leahy is using when he speaks. Some time it's the mouth, some times it's the back side.

Doesn't matter as long as he gets the customers to sign.

I'm not a fan of Leahy's style but what greater acknowledgement is there to his success than all the people trying to throw mud and explain away his success.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 33):

I'm not a fan of Leahy's style but what greater acknowledgement is there to his success than all the people trying to throw mud and explain away his success.

One thing I have learned in my 35 years in industry is that having a superior product is only half the battle; and often is the easier half. The other half is selling it. Selling is an art, and those of us who do not have the talent for it often look askance at those who do. I remember the sales manager at the grinding machine company; JL reminds me of him a lot; not only because they have many similar personality traits but they both were very good at selling their products.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
peanuts
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 34):

You are very correct.
The salesman DOES make the difference. To paraphrase a cliche saying: JL could easily sell ice to an eskimo.

So yes, he is good at what he does. It does come at a price however. Nothing is free in life. As successful as he is, people will mock you and dislike you. In the end, people like JL actually don't care. He's the one laughing all the way to the bank.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 6:55 pm

What a guy! Watch the Blood Pressure John. The 350-10 may never be built. It will be too expensive despite the crash of the Euro. He is trying to keep it in the news. Nothing more.

The EU can no longer assist EADS to lower prices. Everyone is broke (except the Germans). The shrinking of the US defense budget will have the same effect on Boeing. 737 Max, 777NG. No clean sheet designs for quite a while from Boeing after the 787 IMO.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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airzim
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 6:59 pm

One of the top salesman for years at Boeing was a Moroccan. Not sure your statement makes sense.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 11):
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting glideslope (Reply 36):
despite the crash of the Euro

Which "crash"? Did I miss anything?

Quoting glideslope (Reply 36):
The EU can no longer assist EADS to lower prices.

Could you please explain how the EU is "assisting" EADS? You mean they calculate the discounts for EADS or what?

@ JFK777: what's the problem with German or French salesman? Even your president has his roots in Africa. And do you know where the name Boeing comes from? (of course you know, was just a rethoric question)

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 1):
Also it goes as testament to the 777-300ER, on what an excellent aircraft it is and how over the years, it seems to have exceeded most airlines expectation and still continues to pull numerous orders from airlines that haven't operated the type previously. Even though was launched over a decade ago.

Well spoken. The 777 is really a(nother) success story of Boeing.
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 7:39 pm

Leah running his mouth...

77W - orders (605)
its direct competition...
a346 - orders (97)

a350-1000 has what (62) orders since they started taking them and nothing since what 2008? Since 01/2008 Boeing has had (269) firm orders.

Since be in France, Leah can draw, develop and build his a350-1000 on all the cocktail napkins from his drunk rants.   
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something
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 41):
Since be in France, Leah can draw, develop and build his a350-1000 on all the cocktail napkins from his drunk rants.

One can only hope that your distinguished analysis presented above is a product of inebriation as well..
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):
Lets, just wait until the A350 1000 hit the skies.

How very true   
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 7:55 pm

In life, I've found that when people mock, they are normally on the back foot and know it.

Time will tell if that applies in this instance.

Rgds
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting boeingfever777 (Reply 41):
Leah running his mouth...

77W - orders (605)
its direct competition...
a346 - orders (97)

a350-1000 has what (62) orders since they started taking them and nothing since what 2008? Since 01/2008 Boeing has had (269) firm orders.

Since be in France, Leah can draw, develop and build his a350-1000 on all the cocktail napkins from his drunk rants.   

How many of those 77W orders are for delivery after the true EIS of the A350-1000?

Answer... None..

The A350-1000 will be better than the 777-300ER in both costs and revenues (though the 10-abreast 77W is a fierce competitor) and I think even Boeing accepts this, which is why they launched the 777-8/9. Now with those two aircraft having commonality with the current 77W fleet, and the 77W likely to garner at least another 100-150 sales in that interim period (for direct 744 replacements and growth - I think SQ for example might want a top-up order, NH and JL will likely want more, DL and UA could use them as 744 replacements, KLM might take more, KE will likely add to their current 5 on order, and TK is very likely to take on more 77Ws). With all of these 77W operators in place, the 77X, which should at worst come very close to the operating economics of the 350-1000, ****might*** have the upper hand.

The A350-1000 certainly has its problems, but here John Leahy is just stating the obvious.
 
abba
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Leahey's main problem now is that as the A350-1000's EIS is pushed farther and farther to the right, customers are buying 777-300ERs in the interim and that means less of them need an A350-1000 once slots become available.



The situation is much like the 330....

And it is highly doubtful if any 777 ever will. No matter what Boeing does - save for a clean sheet.

Remember: It is not enough just to match - or slightly beat - the A351 on CASM if that implies a much higher seat count. Higher seat count means more risk for the airline - and more risk means the need for significantly higher potential revenue. So having the same (or only slightly better) potential revenue on an 777x with - say with 15% more seats - means that the 777x is as dead as the 748i.

The 777x will simply loose out due to the 1.000.000 small things that - taken each on its own - cannot pay for a re-design only for each to contribute their 0.05% improvement that - when added up - makes the difference. Boeing's own talk as to the extent of a potential 777 re-design speaks in my ears volumes about this issue.

I consider the 777x as dead (or as a potential waking corps like the 748i - what a pity, by the way, that this ground breaking aircraft of beauty should end its run is such a undignified manner!!). If I was Boeing I would strongly warn against a Y3 at this point in time as it will prevent Boeing from effectively responding to a new NB from Airbus after the NEO. Boeing - please -keep focusing on the 787 and wait for Airbus to act as stupidly as Boeing did during Phil Condit. Sooner or later they eventually will....
 
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 8:20 pm

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 15):
JL sold a lot of A330's because they are available when the 787 isn't or wasn't. I fail to see how this isn't the reverse.

Ummm...Boeing also sold just as many (if not more) 76's and Triples to cover the gap in service, so I fail to see the point of your argument.
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Quoting glideslope (Reply 36):
The EU can no longer assist EADS to lower prices. Everyone is broke (except the Germans).

The US has been broke for over 20 years ...  
 
davs5032
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 21):


The usual band of boeing boys are peppering this thread with their wisdoms.

Again with this?!? Surely you must realize that your constant complaining about other members' phantom biases despite no logical basis whatsoever only further establishes your reputation as the single most biased poster on the entire member list. I'm starting to think you relish the role however..

Quoting astuteman (Reply 30):
The 773ER CAN compete on a combination of availability and performance, making up in the former anything it loses in the latter (just as the A330 has with the 787)

Sure, however both the 77W and 330's ability to compete are based on unsustainable advantages; such will diminish relatively quickly as the availability of the superior products they compete with increases from production rates ramping up following EIS...the market ever changes. Obviously, A & B are well aware, as they're both considering re-designs to the current models so as not to fall victim to the innovative new products entering the market.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 30):
JL certainly isn't the only one who can make a loud whistling noise when they want to.....  

Lol..no argument there.

Quoting BLIKSEM (Reply 31):
I fully agree with you .I am sure that Boeing wiil do their homework to ensure that their
worldbeater remains just that. Dream on Leahy.

Leahy's not "dreaming," as his statement about the *77W* was accurate IMO...obviously he failed to mention the likely update Boeing will give the 777 to compete with the A350, but he's a salesman (a damn good one at that), and such posturing is sales/marketing 101...nothing unusual.

The 77X won't be a "world beater" as its predecessor was because it will not only have a worthy competitor for the first time, but a competitor that should be slightly better from a strictly economical point of view. However, 77X doesn't need to be a world beater, as it already benefits from a strong market share advantage obtained by the 77W, therefore it only needs to "hold serve" against the A35J for it to be considered a successful venture by Boeing.

Quoting abba (Reply 47):
The 777x will simply loose out due to the 1.000.000 small things that - taken each on its own - cannot pay for a re-design only for each to contribute their 0.05% improvement that - when added up - makes the difference. Boeing's own talk as to the extent of a potential 777 re-design speaks in my ears volumes about this issue.

I consider the 777x as dead (or as a potential waking corps like the 748i - what a pity, by the way, that this ground breaking aircraft of beauty should end its run is such a undignified manner!!). If I was Boeing I would strongly warn against a Y3 at this point in time as it will prevent Boeing from effectively responding to a new NB from Airbus after the NEO. Boeing - please -keep focusing on the 787 and wait for Airbus to act as stupidly as Boeing did during Phil Condit. Sooner or later they eventually will....

The 748i is an irrelevant comparison as it was soundly beaten by even the 77W from an economical standpoint. I disagree that the 77X is dead, and don't think it's as thoroughly dominated as you imply. To say that the 77X will only improve .05% over the 77W when we know it will have new tech wings and engines is laughable. We've seen many projections on here by the mathematically-inclined that show the 77X to be very competitive versus the competition despite its relative age. If the 77X is merely *competitive* economically, the dominant position of its predecessor as to market share and Boeing's ability to sell it @ a discount relative to the A35J will be sufficient to result in sales....not @ the level of the A35J, but surely it won't be "dead."
 
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mayor
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting something (Reply 19):
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 16):
Of course it can't compete - its a paper airplane vs. a flying airplane.

To keep you abreast with the development of the last 20 or so years: Airplanes are not designed on paper anymore. They use computer technology these days. These computers use data collected in real life experiences and apply them to said models. As a result, they produce fairly accurate estimates about a machine's real life performance.

Purely a figure of speech. Take it as such.

Quoting ebbuk (Reply 21):
JL is right and we all know it. Will it sell more? Will it hit its design targets? Will it fly on time? These are things we don't know

And neither does he, although he has to act as though he knows. BTW, have they ever settled on the window shape, yet?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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flylku
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RE: Leahy- 777-300ER Cannot Compete With A350-1000

Mon May 28, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 1):
Of course the COO of Airbus is going to say the A350-1000 is better than the 777-300ER, they are barely going to say otherwise.

Now that would be a thread: "Leahy says 'Our stuff is junk and the 777-300ER is better than the A350-1000'"
...are we there yet?