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Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon May 28, 2012 4:06 pm

Does anyone have an idea when B6's international terminal at JFK will be complete???
 
IcelandairMSP
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Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon May 28, 2012 4:31 pm

Some of this hinges on the fate of T7. Should AA and BA come to an agreement to complete T8 and accommodate BA's operations, T7 can feasibly be taken down and a replacement for both T6 and T7 can be built jointly. If BA wishes to remain at T7, a different plan will have to be adopted, either expanding from T5 without a master plan to incorporate T7 or a two-phase terminal to be completed when BA finally wishes to either move from T7 or have it replaced altogether. I think most of us suspect BA will wish to complete T8 as AA doesn't seem to have any major expansion plans.

Regardless, I would expect movement first to complete T8 before anything new for B6. But once everything is in motion, I can see everything being wrapped up by 2020.
 
N757ST
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Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon May 28, 2012 5:41 pm

Construction starting in fall, finished 2014ish.
 
B6JFKH81
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Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon May 28, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting IcelandairMSP (Reply 1):
Regardless, I would expect movement first to complete T8 before anything new for B6. But once everything is in motion, I can see everything being wrapped up by 2020.

 

B6 is already moving forward with the T5i project. T6 was fully torn down to make the room for T5i, and as N757ST stated construction should start by the end of this year. B6 has never expressed interest in taking T7's property over as well based on everything I have seen....
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jfklganyc
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Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon May 28, 2012 8:27 pm

"Some of this hinges on the fate of T7. Should AA and BA come to an agreement to complete T8 and accommodate BA's operations, T7 can feasibly be taken down and a replacement for both T6 and T7 can be built jointly. If BA wishes to remain at T7, a different plan will have to be adopted, either expanding from T5 without a master plan to incorporate T7 or a two-phase terminal to be completed when BA finally wishes to either move from T7 or have it replaced altogether. I think most of us suspect BA will wish to complete T8 as AA doesn't seem to have any major expansion plans.

Regardless, I would expect movement first to complete T8 before anything new for B6. But once everything is in motion, I can see everything being wrapped up by 2020."


This post is inaccurate.

B6 is making a small addition to T5, which will infringe only slightly on the T6 land.

There is no connection to T7 whatsoever. And the project is certainly not waiting for a T8 completion.

The PA will work with those willing to spend $$ first. B6 is willing to do that, AA can not do that right now.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon May 28, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
The PA will work with those willing to spend $$ first. B6 is willing to do that, AA can not do that right now.

If AA had the funds, why could the Terminal 5 expansion and the Terminal 8 buildout not occur simultaneously?
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B6JFKH81
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon May 28, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
If AA had the funds, why could the Terminal 5 expansion and the Terminal 8 buildout not occur simultaneously?

They could, they are completely different terminals operated by completely different airlines. The only thing that *COULD* hold things up would be the staging areas located off the AOA. With the T2/3/4 thing going on with DL, then a T5i thing going on with B6 and a T7/8 thing happening with all those parties (AA, BA, etc.), there might not be enough space on airport grounds to have the staging areas for the various construction firms. I doubt that is the case considering how many vacated buildings and lots there are here at JFK, but you never know LOL!
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B6JFKH81
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Thu May 31, 2012 9:49 pm

Folks, it looks like the new thread has been deleted so I am updating this one. Here is the press release indicating that the PANYNJ has given the go-ahead for the building of T5i:

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1701319&highlight=

The expansion on the former site of T6 will house 3 new gates and convert 3 existing ones to make a 6 narrowbody a/c gate international wing, but the design also allows the space to be swapped to a 3 widebody + 1 narrowbody gate area. A few hardstands will also be out there.

This will really help to get all of B6's operations under one roof as currently all inbound B6 flights that require customs clearing upon arrival at JFK go to T4. This also allows opportunity for some of the many interline (and some codeshare) partners to move over, and helps free up space at T4 which is getting quite crowded.

Mods, I hope this doesn't classify as a "bump", but the other thread vanished so I thought I would update this one.

~H81
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STT757
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Thu May 31, 2012 10:30 pm

According to the Port Authority it's going to be three phases:

T5i phase One:

convert 3 existing domestic gates to be able to accommodate international arrivals

T5i phase two:

build and additional 3 new gates for international arrivals

T5i phase three:

build four additional gates for international arrivals, plus three hardstand parking positions.

[Edited 2012-05-31 15:36:41]
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jfklganyc
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Thu May 31, 2012 11:24 pm

So with this, B6 will free up space at T4...a lot of space.

LAN went to T8. And I have a feeling (if the B6 and PA press releases allude to anything) that B6 partner airlines may end up at T5i.

There were a lot of questions about space in T4 with DL moving in...and we are starting to see some answers
 
tharanga
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Thu May 31, 2012 11:33 pm

Is that really enough room to manage widebodies from partners, along with B6's own narrowbodies? I guess it'll depend on how schedules overlap - any thoughts on who would fit, and how?
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Thu May 31, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting tharanga (Reply 10):
Is that really enough room to manage widebodies from partners, along with B6's own narrowbodies? I guess it'll depend on how schedules overlap - any thoughts on who would fit, and how?

Based on the sketches that I have seen, A330/B767s are not a problem. So, you could see EI move over (do they pre-clear??). Not sure about who else might. Here are the partners:

http://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/?intcmp=ft_partnerair

Aer Lingus
American Airlines
Cape Air
El Al
Emirates
Hawaiian Airlines
Icelandair
Japan Airlines
Jet Airways
Korean Airlines
LAN
LOT
Luthansa
Qatar Airways
Singapore Airlines
South African Airways
TAM
Turkish Airlines
Virgin Atlantic

Obviously not all of them are interline agreements at JFK (Cape Air, for example), and some have a good home already and wont be moving. It does raise an interesting question though.

Obviously, T5 is our home, so we're not (hopefully) going to go and enter into a bunch of servicing and terminal space contracts that put us in a situation where we can't handle our own flights because there are some other airlines at our gates.

Hope that helps shine a little light on possibilities....
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
tharanga
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:13 am

Well, let's work with that list.

American is obviously out.
Hawaiian, I think, we already know is in.

Aer Lingus is what, double daily to DUB in the evening, and sometimes in the evening to Shannon?

filling out the list, combined with knowing when there are gates free from B6's own operations, we could work out the possibilities.
 
airbazar
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting tharanga (Reply 12):
Aer Lingus is what, double daily to DUB in the evening, and sometimes in the evening to Shannon?

Doesn't Aer Lingus have pre-clearance? They don't need an international gate.
I think it's fair to exclude all A380 operators, and possibly 747/773/A346 operators too. I'd exclude most alliance carriers such as JL, LATAM, KE, etc. That leaves very few left, if any. This is really for B6.
 
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STT757
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
Doesn't Aer Lingus have pre-clearance? They don't need an international gate.

Exactly, they don't need an FIS.
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N623JB
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:12 pm

I think that B6 should keep T5-I for only B6 Int'l arrivals,both narrowbodies and widebodies.
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Av8tor
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:33 pm

Quoting N623JB (Reply 15):
I think that B6 should keep T5-I for only B6 Int'l arrivals,both narrowbodies and widebodies.

Exactly!
 
nycdave
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:00 am

So will the final design basically involve just building the existing pier straight out from gates 26/27 towards the space T6 was in? That could actually be nice -- look like a coherent terminal, rather than a terminal with an add-on!

Any idea which gates will be converted in the first phase?

Also, why doesn't EI already fly to T5? While I know B6 makes heavy usage of all the gates they have, I have to imagine they could squeeze in a couple of widebody EI flights per day, if they had at least one convertible gate.
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:08 am

Quoting nycdave (Reply 17):

Well gates 9 and 12 already have the tarmac markings for the a330 for Hawaiian. For the exception of passenger seating in terminal...I couldn't see why gate 27 couldn't be used either. Even with its wingspan...I don't think it'd block gate 26.
 
B777ER
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:47 pm

Any concept drawings showing a final buildout look on the net?
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 17):
So will the final design basically involve just building the existing pier straight out from gates 26/27 towards the space T6 was in? That could actually be nice -- look like a coherent terminal, rather than a terminal with an add-on!

T5 was actually designed with the expansion in mind so it will flow nicely both visually and functually.

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 18):
For the exception of passenger seating in terminal...I couldn't see why gate 27 couldn't be used either

I think that is the biggest problem...the seating/waiting area. It gets crowded in that part of the terminal with an E190 or A320 operating down there, I couldn't imagine what a full A330 would be like.

Quoting B777ER (Reply 19):
Any concept drawings showing a final buildout look on the net?

I Googled it and found a few pics through the JetBlue Blog, not too many things out there though. The only things I saw before were from internal communications so I couldn't post them, but these are on a public blog now:

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FoxBravo
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 20):

Looks great! Thanks for posting--I hadn't been able to find any renderings. These are roughly as I had imagined, but it's nice to be able to visualize it clearly.

It looks like this still leaves room for future expansion on the old T6 site.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 21):
Looks great! Thanks for posting--I hadn't been able to find any renderings. These are roughly as I had imagined, but it's nice to be able to visualize it clearly.

It looks like this still leaves room for future expansion on the old T6 site.

You know, I'm looking at that middle picture which I guess would be the customs clearing hall, and I am getting flashbacks to the old T6 Sundrome for some reason...wonder if that is on purpose, hmmmmmmmm.

As far as future further expansion goes, STT757 shows that there just might be extra gates added:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
T5i phase One:

convert 3 existing domestic gates to be able to accommodate international arrivals

T5i phase two:

build and additional 3 new gates for international arrivals

T5i phase three:

build four additional gates for international arrivals, plus three hardstand parking positions.

I don't know where they would fit hardstands if they expand out another 4 gates, but I guess there is enough space if they are indicating extra gates and hardstands.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
B6MoneyGuyJFK
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 17):
Also, why doesn't EI already fly to T5? While I know B6 makes heavy usage of all the gates they have, I have to imagine they could squeeze in a couple of widebody EI flights per day, if they had at least one convertible gate.

I'll start off by saying that I have no first hand knowledge and that this is just my opinion.

I think this will happen fairly soon (As in before T5i opens), but I also think that we want to get used to doing the servicing for Hawaiian first. Lets get our feet wet, get used to turning a larger aircraft around, and then we can take on another partner. I think that the Arrivals / Departures of Hawaiian / Aer Lingus would make it possible to use the same gate and check in desk at different times of the day.
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FoxBravo
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 22):
As far as future further expansion goes, STT757 shows that there just might be extra gates added

I was assuming that the green aircraft in the drawing represented "phase two" and the red aircraft were "phase three," with the orange aircraft being the hardstand positions--in which case it looks like there would be room to extend the terminal for yet another 3 gates where the hardstands are. Or maybe I am reading it wrong--are the green aircraft existing gates?

Quoting B6MoneyGuyJFK (Reply 23):
I think this will happen fairly soon (As in before T5i opens), but I also think that we want to get used to doing the servicing for Hawaiian first. Lets get our feet wet, get used to turning a larger aircraft around, and then we can take on another partner. I think that the Arrivals / Departures of Hawaiian / Aer Lingus would make it possible to use the same gate and check in desk at different times of the day.

This all makes sense to me.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
tharanga
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:17 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
Doesn't Aer Lingus have pre-clearance? They don't need an international gate.

I'm just trying to see if their operations would fit with B6's own operations in T5. They don't need an international gate, but they do need to fit a widebody in there.

People keep saying that maybe a partner or two might move into T5, along with Hawaiian - I just wonder if that'd actually work.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:25 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 11):
So, you could see EI move over (do they pre-clear??).

EI have 2-3 flights per day into JFK, (SNN x 0.5 daily, DUB x 2 daily)
However only 1 of the DUB flights pre-clears. Timing wise the 2 DUB flights are not scheduled on the grourd at the same time. (1800 STD vs 1900 STA)
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Status Of B6 Int'l Terminal @ JFK?

Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:13 pm

Green are existing gates

Red are additional gates with T5i

Orange are hardstands


The 3 gates on that end are long jetways from existing T5. Looks like they will build in front of those

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