USAir_757
Topic Author
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:30 am

What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Fri Oct 13, 2000 3:19 pm

I see photo after photo in airliners.net, of planes cut in half, with holes cut in that half, etc.

What is the point of that??

Is it really nessecary? Why can't they just remove the parts they need, so that the aircraft could later be purchased and restored to new condition? I'm curious to know...


USAir_757
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
Guest

RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Fri Oct 13, 2000 3:37 pm

It is cheaper to buy a new airliner then it is to restore and they are cheaper to operate. Also once you have the aircraft down to metal, it is worth more to make soda cans out of then any other things. Sad but true!
Iain
 
wilcharl
Posts: 1151
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RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Fri Oct 13, 2000 3:43 pm

am i incorrect in saying a bird is worth more chopped then it is hole?
 
Guest

RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Fri Oct 13, 2000 4:01 pm

You are perfectly correct!
Iain
 
Guest

RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Fri Oct 13, 2000 4:16 pm

To give you an idea of values: you can buy a run out B727-200A for around US$900k with -15 midlife engines. The engines themselves have a value of between US$600 - 800k each; landing gear is worth US$100k and APU US$50k. The TCAS and windshear systems are worth US$100k. The airframe is worth some US$60 - 100k as scrap metal, so you'll see that you can recover some US$2.5 million - US$1.5 million profit overall.

The reason why more people are not doing this is that each aircraft that is parted out is one less potential customer for the recovered spares.
 
USAir_757
Topic Author
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RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Fri Oct 13, 2000 4:25 pm

I still dont see the point...the metal for soda cans can be made new...and from other soda cans...only ONE aircraft would be needed to make soda cans, then those soda cans could be made into new ones, and thus an endless loop of making new soda cans out of used ones.

And no offense but most of the new airliners are pieces of crap. Too much computer control. The Flight Engineer is almost completely phased out. Will Pilots and F/O's be phased out next?!

See where i'm comging from?


USAir_757
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Fri Oct 13, 2000 5:11 pm

There chopped so they can fit into the funance for melting down.

Most airplanes don't end up as soda cans. Duraluminum alloy isn't a good one for drinking cans. A lot of them end up as trim on airplanes.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Greeneyes53787
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RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Sat Oct 14, 2000 4:34 am

To take an aircraft apart by drilling out the rivets would take much longer than building the airplane. Rivets go in fast. They come out slowly. So we just cut them up. Now, many aircraft can be cut up easily because the skin is weak and thin. But some are too difficult to scrap that way. The 880s in Mojave were cut with a gas powered hand saw.

But what about our hearts? Our hearts are involved in these beautiful birds or we wouldn't be talking on this forum. And yes I, personally, cringe every time I hear of a scrapping. But cannabalizing doesn't bother me much--probably because one machine dies to let another one live. Listen to me. I am personifying metal.

Greeneyes
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Sat Oct 14, 2000 4:36 am

to make soda cans.
 
SegmentKing
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Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:56 am

Where do you think all the tin for your Campbell's soup comes from???

That's your old Boeing 707!!!
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

The Point Is...

Sat Oct 14, 2000 11:12 am

Old airliners are like old washing machines and cars and the like. Why would you wan't to still fly a tired, old inefficent plane like a (what ever!@##) that has been maxed out as far as hush kits, new interiors, flight deck etc when you can lease a new(er one for less money with lower operating costs? I think the passengers would rather fly in a state of the art A320 or 757 offering the latest in accomidation, comfort and safety as opposed to an old 707 let's say. And the Airlines would rather fly new as well. A pair of CF6's, RB-211's etc are a whole lot cheaper to run and maintain than Conways or JT3D's. Don't forget old planes have more down time than newer ones too. Besides there are explicit limits to how long a plane can fly.

Planes in most ways are a self renewing resource. Old ones are stripped to make spares for other's like it (As oppsed to making new replancement parts for old planes) and once the airframe has been stripped, the metal is recycled for alot of things, not just cans of Bud Lite. Not only that, before break up, lots of old PAX jets server on for a number of years as freighters, ekking out the most from the plane.
 
Guest

RE: The Point Is...

Sat Oct 14, 2000 5:45 pm

Hey they don't make them into soda cans, I think TWA has a band of thieves that comes every night, and steals those junkers, and then they paint them with TWA, and walaa, there you go, a brand new 30 year old md-80 for TWA,
 
Carioca Canuck
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RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Sun Oct 15, 2000 2:54 am

L-188 is correct.

Transport and recycling of metal scrap is easier when the components are smaller.

It's that simple.
 
USAir_757
Topic Author
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RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Tue Oct 17, 2000 4:14 am

What about the L1011???

It's always been a quiet, spacious aircraft.

So why are they being retired/scrapped so darn early?

L1011's are the greatest aircraft ever made. They have more time left then all the airlines think...they aren't DC-10's for heaven sakes. DC-10's are being retired/scrapped at the correct time. Also the MD-11? It's not THAT old...it too is being ditched left and right. Now I've heard some saftey problems on the MD-11 so if this is the reason behind it then please tell me.
-Cullen Wassell @ MLI | Pentax K5 + DA18-55WR + Sigma 70-300 DL Macro Super
 
woodsboy
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RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Tue Oct 17, 2000 4:19 am

All that I know is that I would like to lynch the management of Torco Oil for chopping up the last of the intact Convair 880s at Mojave last spring. How could they do that? How can such a significant piece of aviation history be chopped up and sent to the recyclers? It makes me ill, the companies that engage in the trade of scrap airplanes also make me ill, they should be ashamed.
 
BigGiraffe
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2000 7:58 am

RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Tue Oct 17, 2000 7:15 am

Aviation history only matters to the people on this forum; not to the average businessmen. Their decisions are based on "the bottom line" -- what provides the most profit? If the aircraft are beyond economic use and nobody wants to buy them intact, all they will do is rot in storage. Rotting aircraft aren't worth anything; in fact, they cost money because you have to rent ramp space to park them. Therefore, they part them out because that provides the most income.

The companies could ask you the same question in reverse, since these aircraft will never fly again: "What is the point of NOT chopping them up?" People don't normally store their old refrigerators and lawn mowers, either.

Am I happy to scrap them? No. But that is the harsh reality of the real world.
 
woodsboy
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RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Tue Oct 17, 2000 7:29 am

I agree that the economics of storing fleets of derilict planes is rather prohibitive unless you are the military! But on the other side of the coin, storing old refrigerators and lawn mowers is not quite the same thing, there are hundreds of thousands of those around but there were only 10 or so CV-880s and now there is one. Surely the historical signifigance of saving the last of a type is something that even heartless mega-corporations can appreciate. I can hardly believe that even such aircraft as the Comet have not diligently been saved except for a couple of examples that are thankfully being restored.
 
747-451
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Woodsboy

Tue Oct 17, 2000 1:30 pm

The 880 broken up at Mohave was not the last one. Look for the thread "Convair880/990" under 747-451. There are a few 880's and 990's in existance and being actively resotred. (eg. the Swissair 990 resotred and on display at Luzerne, Switzerland and the 990 restoration going on in Texas)
 
BigGiraffe
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2000 7:58 am

RE: What Is The Point Of Chopping Up Planes

Tue Oct 17, 2000 7:56 pm

If there is an organization that wants to keep a CV 880, for example, as a museum piece, I'm sure the company that currently owns the airframe would be glad to hand it over to them -- provided they are paid at least the same amount as spare parts and recycling would have made. Personally, I'd like very much to see a museum of commercial jets. But money is hard to find for that kind of project. We are still left with the fact that airlines are businesses, and an obsolete aircraft is just like an obsolete refrigerator, except a bigger pain to store.

It is good there are some groups refurbishing some of the aircraft. Too bad the first L-1011 has already been scrapped. That was the most advanced aircraft of its day...