bioyuki
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SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:31 pm

SFO is closing Runway 28L this weekend for construction, starting Friday, June 1st at 8PM PDT and it will remain closed through Monday, June 4th at 8AM PDT. Runways 28R, 1L and 1R are unaffected. Arrival capacity at SFO will be halved from 60/hour to 30/hour.

What are airlines, especially UA, doing with regards to this shutdown? Are airlines reducing flights during this time period?

Link: http://www.flysfo.com/web/page/about/news/pressrel/2012/sf1234.html
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n471wn
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:51 pm

Airports all around are in an expansion mode and there sits SFO doing nothing about their runway situation----there will never be a better time than now for SFO to get off their butts and propose something---even Obama is supporting infastructure growth......
 
anonms
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
Airports all around are in an expansion mode and there sits SFO doing nothing about their runway situation----there will never be a better time than now for SFO to get off their butts and propose something---even Obama is supporting infastructure growth......

SFO's consistently been trying to propose runway expansion projects, but NIMBYs and environmentalists keep shooting them down.
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n471wn
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting anonms (Reply 2):

SFO's consistently been trying to propose runway expansion projects, but NIMBYs and environmentalists keep shooting them down.

Yes I know that but these envoronmental whackos have now been quiet for several years and now is the time to reopen the debate
 
gigneil
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
-even Obama is supporting infastructure growth......

Only Obama is supporting infrastructure growth. The right would let all our bridges, airports, and railways disintegrate.

NS
 
flyingcat
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:25 pm

I never under stood why they don't pull an LAX and claim that for reasons of safety they need to separate the runways. Unfortunately they will have to override the restriction that they they have to restore an equivalent amount of bay for every cm they fill in. Also they must be at least 22 agencies who watch the bay like a hawk. They got rid of the redevelopment agencies you would think they could unfund several more.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:25 pm

I thought when SFO got clouds, they went down to a single runway arrival pattern. How is this different?
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flyabunch
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):

My thoughts exactly. This will just be a typical four day storm system type slowdown.

mike
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):

I thought when SFO got clouds, they went down to a single runway arrival pattern. How is this different?

  

Quoting bioyuki (Thread starter):
What are airlines, especially UA, doing with regards to this shutdown? Are airlines reducing flights during this time period?

This isn't anything too drastic SFO can't cope with at all. We'll be ok over here  
 
flySFO
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:57 pm

What happens when a heavy needs to use the sole arrival runway for departure? Or even worse, if the winds change to where both arrivals and all departures have to use 28R?
 
as739x
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:00 pm

Its actually been a very entertaining day at SFO.

As of 1300 the airport is using 28R for all arrivals and departures. Thank goodness for a Saturday schedule, however there are still some good delays. And to cap it off there is a fire on the NE side of Mt. San Bruno and firebomber have been on station since 1330 doing drops. First time I have ever seen this in person.
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warden145
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
Yes I know that but these envoronmental whackos have now been quiet for several years and now is the time to reopen the debate

Say one word about re-opening the possibility of adding runways and the environmentalists and NIMBY's will stop being quite rather quickly. They've only been quiet because they've won (so far).

Besides, where would the $$ come from? The state doesn't have it, and Congress is so deadlocked that there's no way the discussion would go anywhere even if the environmentalists/NIMBY's didn't loudly voice their opposition. It's a shame too, since SFO desperately needs the runways...
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WingedMigrator
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
Yes I know that but these envoronmental whackos have now been quiet for several years

They're busy fighting high-speed rail. Give them a few months until that falls apart too.
 
anonms
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 12):
They're busy fighting high-speed rail. Give them a few months until that falls apart too.

I'm not an environmentalist wacko, and even I think it's a waste of time and money...
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roseflyer
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:28 pm

SFO currently has a 1400ft ceiling and clouds at 400ft. That means the lowest acceptance rate of 30 planes per hour anyway even with all runways open (presuming that it is open again). SFO is down to its slowest operation. That's resulted in the longest flow control that SFO gets. Having a runway closed does not really make much of a difference.

SFO flow control is very predictable. Today it is actually rather typical for a low visibility day. If the visibility was higher, I'd actually think that the closure would have meant something more. They only thing affected by the closed runway is when a heavy jet needs to takeoff of 28R.
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LAXintl
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 5):
I never under stood why they don't pull an LAX and claim that for reasons of safety they need to separate the runways

Because LAX did not move its airport boundary one inch when it relocated runway 25L. It was all rebuilt inside the existing property, not something that can be accomplished at SFO without encroaching into the bay.
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n471wn
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:26 pm

[quote=LAXintl,reply=15]Because LAX did not move its airport boundary one inch when it relocated runway 25L. It was all rebuilt inside the existing property, not something that can be accomplished at SFO without encroaching into the bay.

Who cares about encroaching into the Bay? Not me as the Bay will be just fine.
 
warden145
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 16):
Who cares about encroaching into the Bay? Not me as the Bay will be just fine.

The environmentalists care, a LOT. As far as they're concerned, any sort of man-made bay filling for any reason is pure evil and will destroy the world as we know it. For that matter, they'd just as soon shut the airport down and restore the bay to the state it was in before the airport was built. And, for better or worse (for worse IMHO), the environmentalists have quite a bit of power in the Bay Area.
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n471wn
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting warden145 (Reply 17):
And, for better or worse (for worse IMHO), the environmentalists have quite a bit of power in the Bay Area.

Sadly you are right and all we can do is to fight them as hard as we can!!
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:36 pm

Reasons SFO won't get a runway that is clearly needed:

1) NIMBY;
2) 2200 environmental groups will sue;
3) No federal $$ available and money that is available go to other projects;
4) The overall cost of such a project would be at least 2x to 3x the cost of that project at other airports in need of another runway.

Such a project would take four to five years assuming no litigation delays. I won't begin to estimate the costs due to the SF Bay mitigation which would be extensive to allow for necessary runway separation.

Here's a question though:

*Once all of the new GPS enabled nav aids are implemented in the air and on the ground, will that help regarding a/c separation? I know there is a rule about so many feet of horizontal separation needed between runways for certain types of ops...perhaps the new nav gear will enable airports such as SFO to operate at full speed in low vis conditions?

*If so, the need for another runway is abated and the new nav gear could open up more operational options in all weather conditions.
 
n471wn
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:40 pm

Actually I have wondered why the smaller international carriers do not just go to Oakland---Martinair Holland used Oakland for many years as did Corsair (how we miss both carriers and especially those cheap Corsair flights to Tahiti).
Oakland ought to try and land some more carriers. Keep in mind that Oakland (OAK) is closer to Fisherman's Wharf than SFO!!
 
warden145
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 20):
Oakland ought to try and land some more carriers. Keep in mind that Oakland (OAK) is closer to Fisherman's Wharf than SFO!!

Keep in mind that, for commercial flights, OAK is a one-runway airport under all circumstances...although, with that said, that can be taken into account for flights and whatnot.

And, re: OAK being closer to Fisherman's Wharf than SFO is, you're right, but that's as the crow flies. Realistically, without traffic, you're looking at about 45 minutes from OAK into SF, compared to 20 to 25 from SFO (unless you're off 19th Ave). With traffic...I have two words for that: Bay Bridge.

OAK could stand to expand some (if WN would let them    ), but I don't see it replacing SFO...
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mikeology
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:36 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 20):
Actually I have wondered why the smaller international carriers do not just go to Oakland---Martinair Holland used Oakland for many years as did Corsair (how we miss both carriers and especially those cheap Corsair flights to Tahiti).

This summer Arkefly (OR) has a summer schedule to Oakland. OAK-AMS. Apparently it starts this week June 7th. Its not much but is something for OAK. Not sure what loads are like. Haven't seen much advertising for it other than an article on sfgate.
 
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legacyins
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RE: SFO To Close Runway 28L June 1-4

Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting mikeology (Reply 22):

I believe the flight stops either in LAS/LAX. The loads on charters are high in the 90s to 100% no matter where they fly from. It is based on low fares and package deals with hotels and tour operators.

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