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Dear All,

Etihad Airways has officially announced that they will be launching new nonstop flights to GRU-Sao Paulo effective June 2013. No schedue nor frequencies have been mentioned though but it is now official as per the link below:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/etiha...o-route-from-june-2013-460254.html

http://www.ameinfo.com/etihad-airways-fly-brazil--302451

A346 announced as aircraft type

Excellent news!   



A long flight indeed! As it stand now, would be the 24th longest regularly scheduled passenger flight in the world and will just edge out AUH-SYD as EY's longest flight.

Showing the flight inserted into its neighbors in the World’s Longest Flights 19 June schedules:

6597nm DXB-GRUº Emirates 77Wx7 

6581nm TLVº-LAX EL AL ˇ 77Ex5[4]
(6545nm AUH-GRU Ethiad 346x7 scheduled June 2013) 

6534nm TPE-YYZ EVA 77Wx3 

6510nm AUHº-SYD Etihad ˇ 346x11 / V Australia 77Wx3

World's Longest Flights, 19 June Updates (by yeogeo Jun 1 2012 in Aviation Polls)

yeo

I am so jealous with GRU. They will now have the 3 best Gulf carriers (among the 3 best airlines in the world).

When will be the time for MEX? At least to have one of them.

Congrats GRU.

Best Regards,

That's quite a flight! Flying over the middle east, Africa, transatlantic and onto So. America!

I wonder how much a ticket on that flight will cost

Some say ARN is next. 4w with 332. Anyone knows more?

...and the recurring rumour of EDI also, but given the multiple previous rumours over the years, I am not sure I would read too much into that. With a relatively small market I suspect Emirates would fight their corner very well indeed.

Congratulations to Etihad and GRU! Now, Sao Paulo (and soon IAD) will join JFK in terms of the cities in the Americas served by all "big three" Gulf Carriers.

EY really likes to announce their new routes a long way out, don't they... Seems a bit silly IMO. Good news though!

I wonder where they will be getting the A346 capacity from? I doubt they have enough slack in the fleet for a daily flight of this length...

I understand the flights will operate on a daily basis...

Quoting olli (Reply 3): I am so jealous with GRU. They will now have the 3 best Gulf carriers (among the 3 best airlines in the world).

And SQ too (via BCN).

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 4): I wonder how much a ticket on that flight will cost

It may well be very reasonable. When QR launched their DOH-GRU-EZE route they sold tickets from £350rtn from Spain and apparently less from South America. Similarly I seem to recall EK having fares of around £400 for LHR-GRU via DXB when they first launched the flight.


Dan  

Congrats to GRU! Exciting news for EY too, some more expansion from them is always nice to see!

Quoting qf002 (Reply 8): I wonder where they will be getting the A346 capacity from? I doubt they have enough slack in the fleet for a daily flight of this length...

Indeed their schedule seems pushed of late, they are wetleasing a VA 77W to cover AUH-KUL for an extended period. Must be an expensive exercise?

What does their upcoming deliver schedule look like?

Quoting qf002 (Reply 8): EY really likes to announce their new routes a long way out, don't they... Seems a bit silly IMO. Good news though!

I always feel EY is trying to play catch up to QR and EK with their expansion, they seem to like to be included in the press a bit an announce these things way out. Whats their future route schedule looking like?

I must confess (as obvious from my questions above) to not follow EY with as much interest as I should, I love their branding it sits well with me. How is AUH coping with their expansion?

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 4): I wonder how much a ticket on that flight will cost

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11): Similarly I seem to recall EK having fares of around £400 for LHR-GRU via DXB when they first launched the flight.

That would be a dream, because lately EK and QR are charging average 1500~1700 USD return even on low season...

Very good news for Brazil and for Sao Paulo. Not so good news for Qatar and Emirates as the competition will put further pressure on fares. It will be a while before Emirates can have the confidence to add a second flight. I expect GRU's new terminal to fill up as soon as it opens.

How did EY manage to get slot at GRU? I know it's already saturated unless EY can arrive, turn around, and depart during the odd hours.

Quoting olli (Reply 3): I am so jealous with GRU

If Mexico City gets their act together you'll see EK, EY, QR, and even TK serving MEX. At the current state, it aint gonna happen, in fact the airport even hampers growth for AM.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 12): What does their upcoming deliver schedule look like?

Etihad should have another 8 77W's joining the fleet over the course of 2012/2013 and then 787's & A380's from 2014.

With all 3 Gulf airlines flying to GRU one has to wonder how much traffic has been connecting through Europe before ? This the "BIC" connection ( Not BRIC), Brazil to India and China.

Quoting vincewy (Reply 15): How did EY manage to get slot at GRU? I know it's already saturated unless EY can arrive, turn around, and depart during the odd hours.

I don't think they have. It's my understanding that slots for the summer of 2013 will only be awarded in November.

Quoting olli (Reply 3): When will be the time for MEX? At least to have one of them.

What is the bilateral status with Mexico? That could inhibit launching the service.

The reality is, the mid-east carriers need expanding demand to enter many markets. Is MEX growing in passenger numbers? If not, expect a delay before service starts.

Lightsaber

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 12): Indeed their schedule seems pushed of late, they are wetleasing a VA 77W to cover AUH-KUL for an extended period.

Really? I hadn't heard this... Is VA cutting back on routes to facilitate this?

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 12): they are wetleasing a VA 77W to cover AUH-KUL for an extended period. Must be an expensive exercise?

That's only a once weekly rotation, while VA's plane is sat in AUH for a ridiculously long period of time between flights (something like 36 hours?!).

Quoting sydscott (Reply 16): Etihad should have another 8 77W's joining the fleet over the course of 2012/2013

I hope we don't end up having our A346's replaced with 77W's into SYD   

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21): That's only a once weekly rotation, while VA's plane is sat in AUH for a ridiculously long period of time between flights (something like 36 hours?!).

Ah ok, makes sense. I didn't think VA had the Aircraft numbers to spare one permanently without reducing flights.

....and there goes the rumor that was discussed in a few German message boards that EY wants to get rid of their A340s as soon as possible....

Quoting Truemanqld (Reply 22): I didn't think VA had the Aircraft numbers to spare one permanently without reducing flights.

It's still shockingly bad utilisation considering VA only have 5 (or 6?) aircraft.

Quoting QF002 Relpy 21
"I hope we don't end up having our A346's replaced with 77W's into SYD"

Well at least they are not like EK's with 10 Abreast. You will won't need to go on a diet just don't forget the ear muffs  

Hi all

Please excuse me for the ignorance and if my info is a bit outdated.

I´m just wondering if there is enough demand for 3 gulf carrier flights into GRU. (if I´m not mistaken EK and QR run daily, don´t they?). And for connecting Asia with GRU there´s also TK and SQ.
Also considering that EK does DXB-GIG

I don´t know, just some thoughts.

Cheers
Lanas.-

I am in Sao Paulo right now. I have been coming here for 15 years for business. This giant city has changed so much in that time. Each visit I see a new skyscraper or office complex with gardens etc that look more and more like Singapore (in patches - not all SP).

Our business here is booming - it is "the place to be". Restaurants, hotels and bars. I am staying in the Unique Hotel- outstanding in every way and awesome design.

I have no doubt why these airlines are coming here. And there will be more. But GRU can barely manage the traffic. Yesterday I saw an Iberia A346 sitting in line for an hour waiting to take off..flanked by AF and TAM. I flew United here and there were 4 United ac at the gates and a UA 777 parked.

Sao Paulo is becoming a big world city. My question is will these "elite" carriers tag on GIG too or eventually have a non-stop to Rio de Janeiro? Because today's Rio is not your daddy's Rio either. With the start of Brazils "silicon valley" in Rio, it too is booming too with business as well as it's famous tourist roots.

To get to Rio, are all these elite airlines using TAM to hop over? Because that it the ultimate irony...arriving GRU in F or C after an 18 hour flight...and then have to board an A320 packed - all Y seating and with Ryan air seat pitch.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 8): I wonder where they will be getting the A346 capacity from? I doubt they have enough slack in the fleet for a daily flight of this length...

Apparently EY still has a few 77W deliveries for 2012/2013. Besides this, the route is planned to start in 2013 so any aircraft changes can still happen. I saw EY when I was in Singapore, very nice livery!!!


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Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography


In any case, good luck to EY on this new route. I'm also jealous at GRU getting so much traffic from all over the world!!! Besides the big 3 Middle Eastern airlines, they also get service from CA, SQ. Are there more airlines flying scheduled service from Asia to GRU???

A388

Congrats to GRU and EY! This is fantastic news.

Quoting vincewy (Reply 15): If Mexico City gets their act together you'll see EK, EY, QR, and even TK serving MEX. At the current state, it aint gonna happen, in fact the airport even hampers growth for AM.

Well, it is not as easy. On the one hand, you have the altitude issue. That is something that cannot be changed. At 2,240 meters / 7,350 ft. above the sea level, very long haul or ultra long haul flights ex-MEX get difficult, and these times are not easy times for fifth freedom rights applications. A345s and 77Ls would have to be used for flights to, say, DXB, and I am not sure there is a sufficiently big market to sustain regularly scheduled service between Mexico and the Middle East.

On the other hand, with the U.S. as our northern neighbor, a substantial chunk of the traffic between Africa, Europe and Asia (including the Middle East), on the one hand, and Mexico, on the other hand, is routed via U.S. hubs. European and Canadian hubs with nonstop service to MEX also serve as connecting points. Given the potential price advantage of flying one-stop via these hubs and the need of most people to break such a long trip into two more manageable segments, it seems to me one-stop flights would continue to be favored by many.

I would like to know a bit more about your sources and reasons for stating that the airport hampers AM's growth. It is true that an altogether new airport should have been the solution several years ago instead of just building the new T2, but the MX demise has resulted in the opening of take-off and landing slots that AM, Interjet, Volaris and Viva Aerobús have all taken advantage of. Sure, AM will probably need a brand new multi-runway (with simultaneous landing and take-off capabilities) airport in several years to use as its hub near Mexico City, but my personal opinion is that for the time being AM is doing fine hubbing at MEX's T2. Remember, also, that UA has consolidated at T1 after the consummation of the UA-CO merger, so there is a bit more room for AM at T2 now.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19): What is the bilateral status with Mexico? That could inhibit launching the service. The reality is, the mid-east carriers need expanding demand to enter many markets. Is MEX growing in passenger numbers? If not, expect a delay before service starts.

AFAIK, it has been executed by both countries. I am not sure if the Mexican Senate has ratified it, but I would imagine it has.

MEX is once again at 2008 pax levels I think (i.e., pre-global financial crisis/swine flu levels). Unless something goes awfully wrong, traffic will continue to grow. The large Mexican carriers, i.e., AM, Interjet, Volaris and Viva Aerobús have all been recording year-on-year traffic growth since the collapse of MX almost two years ago, and some of the foreign carriers serving Mexico such as the American carriers, CM and LA have also been growing substantially.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 29): A345s and 77Ls would have to be used for flights to, say, DXB, and I am not sure there is a sufficiently big market to sustain regularly scheduled service between Mexico and the Middle East. On the other hand, with the U.S. as our northern neighbor, a substantial chunk of the traffic between Africa, Europe and Asia (including the Middle East), on the one hand, and Mexico, on the other hand, is routed via U.S. hubs. European and Canadian hubs with nonstop service to MEX also serve as connecting points. Given the potential price advantage of flying one-stop via these hubs and the need of most people to break such a long trip into two more manageable segments, it seems to me one-stop flights would continue to be favored by many.

I'm not in the know regarding market demand between the Middle East/Asia and Mexico but I can imagine the market demand is thin from the Middle East to MEX. The higher elevation apparently also is an issue but than again, if the market can support flights nonstop, more power to those flights. This is where the 787 can be an attractive option as this aircraft can open a lot of thin long haul flights, such as routes to/from the Middle East to MEX(?)

A388

Quoting A388 (Reply 30): I'm not in the know regarding market demand between the Middle East/Asia and Mexico but I can imagine the market demand is thin from the Middle East to MEX.

Maybe, but if you combine it with demand from MEX to India, Africa etc....it can fill a flight easily. There is even traffic to KUL and MNL which is very price sensitive and some of which would no doubt go via DXB if given the option.

A MEX-DXB flight could theoretically use CUN as at least an outbound stop.

Quoting A388 (Reply 28): Are there more airlines flying scheduled service from Asia to GRU???

Korean Air via LAX, 3X weekly and goes onward to ICN.

Also, while not Asian, important to note that Ethiopian Airlines and Kenya Airways have both stated intentions to serve GRU within the next few years. ET will soon receive its first round of 787s which it intends to send on a few long-haul routes, as well as some 777-300ERs, which will hopefully free up the 77L frames to fly to GRU.

KQ seems a bit further off, sometime in 2014 or 2015 once it gets its first batch of 787s. This will be especially interesting to watch at GOL continues to cozy up to DL/SkyTeam, which could provide partnership opportunities for KQ.

If KQ and ET are indeed successful in building up their Pan-Continental strategy, they could provide a strategic link between the China and Brasil corridor, as well as everywhere in between, with the advantage of belonging to global alliance memberships (something that the non-aligned Gulf Carriers cannot compete against).

Of course, as with anything that pertains the GRU, the primary challenge continues to be airport infrastructure and capacity constraints.

[Edited 2012-06-04 13:22:15]

Quoting behramjee (Reply 1): A346 announced as aircraft type

EY is not getting any more A346s. Will there be a 3-class version of the 77W? Or will they remove F class from other markets in order to serve GRU?

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17): This the "BIC" connection ( Not BRIC), Brazil to India and China.

I wonder if there are not some further connection into Russia. Does anyone have the travel numbers DXB/DOH/AUH to Russia? Is there a way to exclude European Russia from those numbers? I do not think the traffic would be huge, but it would be possible for some traffic to flow through the mid-east hubs to Russia.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 29): AFAIK, it has been executed by both countries. I am not sure if the Mexican Senate has ratified it, but I would imagine it has. MEX is once again at 2008 pax levels I think

Thank you. Then it would depend on if the bilateral was signed and EK's aircraft availability.

Lightsaber

It looks like EY will not be outdone!