chiad
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:50 am

Flight global reports that Boeing is to firm B747-8i MoUs:

Quote: Boeing is confident it will convert the 30 commitments it has for the 747-8I passenger variant into firm orders, and also expects to secure near-term incremental sales for the stretched Jumbo.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ure-incremental-sales-soon-372588/
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7077
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:00 am

Fantastic news. No doubt this summers air show will be a winner for the 748i.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:26 am

Great to see the queen coming back.
 
PEET7G
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:32 am

As much as I would love to see orders materialize for the 748i, I still lost all excitement for Boeing's statements like this. I will believe it when I see it. However I will be more than happy about it  
Peet7G
 
sweair
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:59 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:07 am

The 748 has one big advantage, short backlog and compared to the 744 decent economics.
 
by738
Posts: 2444
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:43 am

Cathay ? China ? Transaero ?
 
VC10er
Posts: 2232
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:55 am

Please!!!! Make it UNITED. I just can't imagine United as an all 2 hole airline! I know they have said NO 1000 times. But if Cher can win an Acadamy Award for best actress...anything can happen!

(and I love Cher)
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:20 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 5):
Cathay ? China ? Transaero ?
Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
Please!!!! Make it UNITED.

It's in the article

Quote:
Boeing also holds memorandums of understanding (MoUs) for some 30 747-8Is from a mix of announced and undisclosed customers which include Air China (five), Transaero (four) and an undisclosed customer (15).

whereby 15 undisclosed customer seem to be the airframes for Hong Kong Airlines

Quoting VC10er (Reply 6):
I just can't imagine United as an all 2 hole airline!

   So soon you will join in with Cher singing "If I could turn back times"....  
 
northstar80
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:29 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:25 pm

I bet some are for TK
 
abba
Posts: 1382
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
I bet some are for TK


If 15 is for an undisclosed customer and there are 5 for Air China and 4 for Transaero then there must be 6 unaccounted for if they have MOUs for 30. TK is a good guess as they like to fly all available models (more or less)
 
msp747
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:06 pm

This seems to be an update to orders we had all heard about before. I guess if they had not been firmed up, it is a good sign for Boeing. But it's not like they have orders pouring in from carriers some of us wish would order the 8I. CI, CX, UA, DL are not going to surprise us any time soon with big orders for the plane.
 
md2012
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 1:13 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:21 pm

Great news for the queen of the sky. All these orders will ensure at least 50 years in the sky (since 1970). A fitting Golden Jubilee for this queen.
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:25 pm

Quoting msp747 (Reply 10):
I guess if they had not been firmed up, it is a good sign for Boeing.

I don't get this point. How can it be a good sign?
 
msp747
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat May 29, 2010 6:42 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 12):
I don't get this point. How can it be a good sign?

I thought these were firm orders, but from what I am gathering from this article, they were not. However, if they are now (or soon will be) official firm orders, that is good news for Boeing and the 748's backlog. It is not good news for people who were hoping for a surge of new orders for the 748
 
Reggaebird
Posts: 886
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:54 pm

I hope Boeing isn't counting any of the potential orders from Chinese airlines. Those are not "done" until they are finalized. In my opinion, China appears to use commercial aircraft orders as geo-political tools so finalizing an order for Chinese airlines depends on which way the political winds are blowing.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:55 pm

If 747-8 commitments are like 737 MAX commitments, then carriers have paid Boeing to secure delivery positions so these should become firm orders once all the contract details have been worked out.


Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 18):
I hope Boeing isn't counting any of the potential orders from Chinese airlines.


Hong Kong Airlines is widely believed to be the airline behind the 15 UFOs and it Boeing looked to have planned to announce the order at Paris. However, it appears CAAC has yet to formally approve the deal (at which point they will likely be booked as UFOs as Boeing policy is not to announce a China order by customer until CAAC allocates the planes).

Boeing also believes Chinese carriers will be a major buyer of the 747-8.

[Edited 2012-06-04 07:00:09]
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:13 pm

Can someone refresh my memory on the timetable for ~ 5t reduction in weight and an upcoming PIP from GE.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:16 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 20):
Can someone refresh my memory on the timetable for ~ 5t reduction in weight and an upcoming PIP from GE.

Next year.
 
nimbus111
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:33 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:23 pm

great to hear!! its a beautiful aircraft!! congrats
The more turbulence the marrier :-)
 
PanAm1971
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:28 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:48 pm

I think we'll see more orders once the adjustments are made and the aircraft achieves the orginal operations specs. I've flown in every version of this amazing aircraft... and hope I'll get a chance to fly in this latest version. Can't wait!
 
B777LRF
Posts: 1447
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:13 pm

So, will Boeing firm up those MoUs before or after they finally tell us who bought all those mk. IV 737s? I believe even with the SW order there's still a few hundred unaccounted for, if Boeing's claim of having sold 1K+ is to be substantiated.

Just wondering ...
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
A388
Posts: 7194
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:43 pm

Interesting development for the 748i but to my knowledge from a legal point of view an MoU doesn't mean much as there is no obligation to actually exercise the order with an MoU. An airline can back out at any time if only an MoU is signed. Once the aircraft are actually ordered, that is a different story of course. The question is to what extend do MoU's lead to actual orders. How big of an indicator are MoU's for actual orders?

A388
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7077
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:53 pm

Hong Kong airlines have no need for the 748 or the 380.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 25):
The question is to what extend do MoU's lead to actual orders.

Most MoUs become firm orders. Those that do not are most often due to finances - the airline that placed the MoU can't secure the financing to turn it into a firm order.

Sometimes, an MoU expires, but the airline later places an order when their finances are better. A case in point is W3 - they signed an MoU for four 747-8s back in May of 2008, but that MoU never became an order. Three years later, they signed a new order for two 747-8s.

Based on FlightBlogger noting that Air China may become the next 747-8 operator (before KE and W3), this makes me believe that a 747-8 commitment is like a 737 MAX commitment - more than an MoU, because an airline has cut Boeing a check to secure a production slot, but not yet a firm order.

So I personally am of the opinion that Boeing has deposits on at least 20 747-8s (15 for HX and 5 for CA) and perhaps 24 (UN) and therefore those are very likely to become firm orders.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 1041
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:22 pm

Actually airlines have threatened or have backed out of orders up until the actualy time of delivery.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:25 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
So I personally am of the opinion that Boeing has deposits on at least 20 747-8s (15 for HX and 5 for CA)

Hmm, I always respect your opinion but for me it's hard to believe that in particular the future Chinese operators did already pay a single Dollar or did issue a bank guarentee.

Maybe the situation is different to the MAX, where short-tem production solts become rare very quickly.
 
User avatar
EPA001
Posts: 3797
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:27 pm

If these MoU are all converted it would be a very, very nice boost for the B747-8 program. More 4-holers in the sky is to always a good thing.  .
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 29):
Hmm, I always respect your opinion but for me it's hard to believe that in particular the future Chinese operators did already pay a single Dollar or did issue a bank guarentee.

The Chinese government (through CAAC) is the one who formally approves the orders and then assigns them to the airlines so I expect that if Boeing has been paid to assign production slots to HX or CA, those checks came from the Chinese government.

And with a production rate of only two per month and a backlog of ~80 planes (not counting those already completed), slots for the 747-8 are likely tight so an airline that wants a delivery in the near term would need to buy it's way into the line.
 
crAAzy
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 5):
Cathay ?

I think CX is on record as saying that any decision they make on the 748i will be after a thorough evaluation of their 748 cargo planes. Not sure if they've had them long enough to make a "thorough" evaluation.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 32):
I think CX is on record as saying that any decision they make on the 748i will be after a thorough evaluation of their 748 cargo planes.


We've also heard comments that the 747-8 does not appear to be part of CX's fleet plans and that they look to be placing an order for the A380-800.
 
jreuschl
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:04 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:16 pm

Quoting abba (Reply 9):
Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 8):
I bet some are for TK


If 15 is for an undisclosed customer and there are 5 for Air China and 4 for Transaero then there must be 6 unaccounted for if they have MOUs for 30. TK is a good guess as they like to fly all available models (more or less)

Weren't there reports that TK was not completely happy with the 773 as it needed full cargo/too much plane in general for them?
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11007
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting msp747 (Reply 10):
CI, CX, UA, DL are not going to surprise us any time soon with big orders for the plane.

You could be right about that. But if any one of them decided to order the B-747-8I, and wanted them 30 months after the contract was signed, I think Boeing would do that.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 13):
Guess a question for those UA 4 hole enthusiasts would be what would it cost UA to get out of the 25 a350 order to get to the b748....since the take is that UA is headed to single source airframe supplier down the road. They would get the 748 sooner by far but at what cost?


UA can sell their A-359 order/slots to another airline, thus will be out from under the contract. They could also sell the airplanes as they are delivered. For example US ordered 22 A-358/9s back in 2007, but won't take delivery of the first one until 2017 (10 years after placing the order). This will be an easy way for US to get out from under the A-358 and get all A-359s. The UA airplanes start being delivered (according to the contract) a year earlier in 2016. In addition to the 70 A-350s EK has on order, they have a MOU for another 30. They could take the remaining UA airplanes (3) and all of the US airplanes, allowing US to move up into the slots for UA.

I know its complicated, but 3 way deals like this have been done before, so it is not all that unusual.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 32):
Quoting by738 (Reply 5):Cathay ? I think CX is on record as saying that any decision they make on the 748i will be after a thorough evaluation of their 748 cargo planes.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
We've also heard comments that the 747-8 does not appear to be part of CX's fleet plans and that they look to be placing an order for the A380-800.

I would put those comments, Stitch, more under rumor than anything. CX has not committed to either the A-388 of the B-747-8I. CX has also said in the past, they might become an all twin jet airline (except for their carg ops). CX currently has 6 or 7 B-747-8Fs in its fleet (another 3-4 on order), so they should be getting good data on its operating costs, compared to its B-747-400F/ERFs. They already know the cost difference between operating the B-747-400F and the pax model B-747-400. So they should have very good data.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting LostSound (Reply 32):
I strongly believe UA will be taking their A350s. In fact, I think we'd more likely see them opt for the A350-1000 rather than the 748.

Now that UA has inherited a large management team from sCO that's been very loyal to Boeing, I could actually see 777-8X and 777-9X ordered instead of the 350-1000 (which is RR-only).

More and more airlines are discovering that 77W to 388 is a huge gap in the fleet, and having something in between would be optimal to adjust for seasonality nature of certain markets.
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 28):
I think CX is on record as saying that any decision they make on the 748i will be after a thorough evaluation of their 748 cargo planes.

To this would need to be added ; the progress of the weight reduction program and the GE PIP program. I would think they would want to see achieved results in both of these. How long they can wait is an open question.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19821
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 32):
Now that UA has inherited a large management team from sCO that's been very loyal to Boeing, I could actually see 777-8X and 777-9X ordered instead of the 350-1000 (which is RR-only).

Loyalty and a hundred million dollars or so will buy you a plane. UA will buy the best airframe after their bean counters have checked and triple-checked the numbers. Also, the airline is just too big to use a single supplier.

As for RR, CO has used RR on their 757 fleet and, AFAIK, they have been very happy with them.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5259
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:43 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 3):
lost all excitement for Boeing's statements like this. I will believe it when I see it. However I will be more than happy about it

What about for hints like this?.....   .

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...oeings-hint-on-new-747-stretc.html

Quote:
"Somewhere over the Atlantic, Lund was asked by journalists about the possibility of a '747-9' -- ergo, a new stretch of the 747-8, which itself is a 5.6m (18.4ft) stretch of the 747-400.

As Kingsley-Jones reported yesterday (for Pro subscribers only), Lund hinted such a project could follow the 777-8X/9X. Said Lund:

'The 747 could [be stretched], some day. Once in a while on the drawing board we toy with a few things, but it is not imminent. Boeing's product development priorities are to finish the 787-9, look at a 787-10X, the 737 Max and what to do with the 777. So the 747 [has to wait its] turn on the product development board - we need to wrap up and fly for a little while, while the other models are developed.'

Who knows? After another decade -- perhaps after the demise of Airbus A380 production -- there will be room for yet another stretch of the venerable 747."


Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 20):
Can someone refresh my memory on the timetable for ~ 5t reduction in weight and an upcoming PIP from GE.

Next year.

I guess ten years would be reasonable for something like hinted above.  
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 2747
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
If 747-8 commitments are like 737 MAX commitments, then carriers have paid Boeing to secure delivery positions so these should become firm orders once all the contract details have been worked out
Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
So I personally am of the opinion that Boeing has deposits on at least 20 747-8s (15 for HX and 5 for CA) and perhaps 24 (UN) and therefore those are very likely to become firm orders

Just a question, if a deposit was paid for an MoU / "commitment", does the customer get [partially] refunded in case the deal for whatever reason falls through? And would that deposit be lower than that for a firm order?

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 26):
If these MoU are all converted it would be a very, very nice boost for the B747-8 program. More 4-holers in the sky is to always a good thing

Couldn't agree more!

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
UA can sell their A-359 order/slots to another airline, thus will be out from under the contract. They could also sell the airplanes as they are delivered. For example US ordered 22 A-358/9s back in 2007, but won't take delivery of the first one until 2017 (10 years after placing the order). This will be an easy way for US to get out from under the A-358 and get all A-359s. The UA airplanes start being delivered (according to the contract) a year earlier in 2016. In addition to the 70 A-350s EK has on order, they have a MOU for another 30. They could take the remaining UA airplanes (3) and all of the US airplanes, allowing US to move up into the slots for UA

Not sure of why this continous picking on the A350 . . . in a 747-8I thread . . . ? ?
So let's rephrase that a little for some balance and fun . . .   

UA can sell their 787 order/slots to another airline, thus will be out from under the contract. They could also sell the airplanes as they are delivered. For example DL ordered 18 787-8s back in 2005, but won't take delivery of the first one until 2020 (15 years after placing the order). This will be an easy way for DL to get out from under the 787-8 and get all A-359s. The UA airplanes start being delivered (according to the contract) a year earlier in 2016. In addition to the 30 787-8 QR has on order, they have a MOU for another 30. They could take the remaining UA airplanes and all of the DL airplanes, allowing DL to move up into the slots for UA .

PW100
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
A388
Posts: 7194
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
We've also heard comments that the 747-8 does not appear to be part of CX's fleet plans and that they look to be placing an order for the A380-800.

I would put those comments, Stitch, more under rumor than anything. CX has not committed to either the A-388 of the B-747-8I. CX has also said in the past, they might become an all twin jet airline (except for their carg ops).

I also read in the past that CX was reportedly interested in a stretched version of the A380 (-900) rather than the current model (A380-800). We just don't know what they want yet.

A388
 
northstar80
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:29 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 30):
Weren't there reports that TK was not completely happy with the 773 as it needed full cargo/too much plane in general for them?

I did not see that.
Last month I think, someone posted on Turkish Aviation forum saying that TK was looking to order more 77Ws and also 748i's. It was pure speculation however, I think where there is fire there is smoke  Turkish Aviation May 2012 (by TK787 May 1 2012 in Civil Aviation)#49
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 2474
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:11 pm

I wonder in any of the six or so un-announced MOUs/commitments are for VIPs. If not, then six might be just about the right number for TK. Probably too few for the likes of CX, DL or UA. I'd heard talk that PR might be signing up for a small batch, maybe some are theirs?
 
planejamie
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:41 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting abba (Reply 9):
If 15 is for an undisclosed customer and there are 5 for Air China and 4 for Transaero then there must be 6 unaccounted for if they have MOUs for 30. TK is a good guess as they like to fly all available models (more or less)

Just to speculate (more of a dream really) that those 6 could be for BA? Think about it, they operate a small number of 77Ws and I know people are going on about how they'll just be 77W or A350 and A380 in the future, but given they are being slow at ordering/accepting 77Ws they could be playing the same tactics with the 748i... either that or IB to replace the A346 eventually (though I don't think they're ready for retirement any time soon)
 
SKY1
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:03 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:45 pm

Or things are going to change dramatically ...or IB has and is going to have for years an 346/77W as the biggest airliner in size.

I'd love see an A380/B748I on Iberia colours. The problem is IB has two class of service, the typical standard Business Class and the plain and simple Coach Class. Opering any 747-8I or larger involves offer a lot of seats if your configuration don't have First Class or Y+ ...how many carriers which already are using both, A388 or B748I are offering just 2 class of service? None so far I know
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 35):
What about for hints like this?

The 747X Stretch was to be almost 80m long and the 747-600X was to be 85m long, so taking the "747-9" to 80m or longer is clearly something Boeing feels is possible.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 36):
Just a question, if a deposit was paid for an MoU / "commitment", does the customer get [partially] refunded in case the deal for whatever reason falls through? And would that deposit be lower than that for a firm order?

I would imagine yes and yes.



Quoting planejamie (Reply 40):
Just to speculate (more of a dream really) that those 6 could be for BA?

It's been consistently said that BA's VLA RFP was a sole-source winner. As such, the only time you will see a 747-8 in BA colors is through their leased freighters.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6040
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:21 pm

CX have said that they will have another look at ordering a VLA this year. There have been few clues from them as to which way they are leaning or whether they will actually order anything at all in that category however with the accelerated retirements of the 747-400s in the coming years I would imagine it is forcing them to have a closer look.

They have said in the past that cargo space on the A388 is not very impressive, a fact we know. Cargo is a big deal to CX and contributes strongly to our bottom line, especially in times when passenger yields are down. We know that the 748i has commonality with the 748F and CX have said last week that they "love" the 748F (Would not surprise me to see more of these ordered). Does it mean that they will also "love" the 748i? I'm not so sure.

I think neither of the A388 or 748i suit CX perfectly and anything they order is going to be a compromise on what is needed. At the same time you have the 777X which looks very interesting and the 777-9X may eat into 748i sales for any airline that operates a large fleet of 777s.

Futhermore, our aircraft purchasing manager was in Toulouse last month....

Who knows what they will order. Many of my colleagues believe the 380 and many of them the 748i.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:52 pm

Quoting cx flyboy (Reply 43):
They have said in the past that cargo space on the A388 is not very impressive, a fact we know.

Many bring forward the A380-900 for this reason, as it will offer additional LD3 spaces (looks to be 44). But if cargo is a big deal to CX, will they feel that a plane that can carry twice the passenger load as a 777-300ER, but only offer the cargo capacity of a single 777-300ER, impressive?
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 752
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:48 am

How likely is the tiff between China and the EU over the emissions trading scheme to lead to some quick orders for the 748I, with cancellation or further postponement of the A380 orders? Is it a serious discussion that could benefit Boeing by default, or just posturing at this point? Again, might Airbus orders from other non-European carriers also be in jeopardy, with the 748I being the beneficiary?

Second question, admitting my ignorance: in a potential further upsizing of the 747, what would be more likely: extending the upper deck further aft, or a further stretch of the fuselage from nose to tail? Stretching the upper deck seems like it could have reduced re-engineering and an earlier EIS than stretching the entire airframe. Does increasing the upper deck passenger load capability have to be met with a corresponding belly-load expansion?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 1041
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:08 am

The US, Europe, China, Russia, and India are all big enough and with enough competing interests that tiffs are an ongoing issue. Who likes who? If you don't like the current scoreboard wait a couple months. It will all change.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 47):
How likely is the tiff between China and the EU over the emissions trading scheme to lead to some quick orders for the 748I, with cancellation or further postponement of the A380 orders?

China has approved HX's order for the A380-800, but has not yet approved HX's order for the 747-8, so...
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 3796
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:15 am

WN is buying them to fly out of HOU to AKL!!!!!   



All joking aside, I am happy for Boeing and the 747! I hope it is for a US major (    United!!!    ). May the 747 keep flying for another almost-half-century, and many many more!!!!!         
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
mal787
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:25 pm

RE: Boeing To Firm 30 747-8I MoUs "soon"

Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:09 am

QF will buy 15 frames, as they realised that the 380 is to big, the 380 will be leased to BA for 15 years like they did in reverse with the 763 that BA no longer needed. Giving BA the lift it needs on its US routes ,maybe thats why BA only ordered 12 whale jets

Far fetched but hey who knows who is buying until released by Boeing or the airlines them selves


Mal787   
BN2 Metro, 402,404, Conquest, king air, 707,727.200, 732,733,734,735,736,738,757,762,763,742,743,744, MD11, DC9,Westwind