FSDan
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UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:20 am

It's been a while since I last posted one of these threads, so I spent some of my free time over the last few weeks looking through the schedules for the four US-based legacy airlines and gathering the following numbers.

To ensure a fair comparison, I used the same date for all four airlines: Thursday, July 26, 2012. I like using Thursdays because they seem to me to be the most "average", although they usually tend to be more of a peak day than not. Data was gathered from the UA and US online timetables, the AA booking engine, and the DL desktop timetable. There will undoubtedly be further minor tweaks to the schedules, but I would expect this to be a fairly accurate representation of what the peak summer schedule will look like.

For each legacy carrier, I will show the data for all stations with 100+ departures. Due to the number of stations for some airlines (DL and UA), I will create a separate thread for each to keep it manageable. Also, I'm grouping aircraft by body type (not differentiating engines, interiors, ETOPS, etc.) to simplify things. For example, I won't differentiate M82 from M83 (if there's a difference in the frame, I'm unaware of it...), but I will denote M88 and M90 separately. I'm sorry if that bothers you. Additionally, I'm going to use the same aircraft codes across all the threads for consistency's sake (for example, I'll note 737-700 as 73G for all airlines, even though DL uses the 73W code). Once again, sorry if that bothers you.

Here is the data for UA:


IAH

SF3: 3
DH4: 7
ER4: 307
CRJ: 10
CR7: 45
E70: 2
319: 8
320: 16
735: 25
73G: 31
738: 99
739: 48
752: 23
753: 9
762: 3
763: 2
764: 7
777: 4

Total: 649


ORD

ER4: 211
CRJ: 68
CR7: 100
E70: 45
319: 53
320: 67
735: 4
73G: 4
738: 13
739: 17
752: 40
763: 10
777: 8
744: 2

Total: 642


EWR

DH2: 26
DH3: 13
DH4: 32
ER4: 130
E70: 31
319: 8
320: 12
735: 14
73G: 12
738: 72
739: 23
752: 44
753: 3
762: 1
763: 5
764: 7
777: 11

Total: 444


DEN

EM2: 7
ER4: 85
CRJ: 112
CR7: 70
E70: 19
319: 26
320: 45
735: 1
73G: 3
738: 17
739: 13
752: 35
753: 3
763: 3
777: 1

Total: 440


SFO

EM2: 68
CRJ: 49
CR7: 37
319: 36
320: 34
73G: 4
738: 19
739: 8
752: 47
753: 3
763: 9
764: 1
777: 8
744: 7

Total: 330


IAD

SF3: 27
DH4: 21
ER4: 69
CRJ: 33
CR7: 38
E70: 8
319: 16
320: 27
735: 1
73G: 1
738: 5
739: 2
752: 20
753: 2
763: 7
764: 1
777: 14

Total: 292


LAX

EM2: 55
ER4: 1
CRJ: 27
CR7: 27
319: 7
320: 29
73G: 3
738: 13
739: 5
752: 35
753: 16
777: 4
744: 1

Total: 223


CLE

BEH: 11
DH2: 33
DH3: 7
DH4: 1
ER4: 102
CRJ: 3
CR7: 8
319: 2
320: 6
735: 3
73G: 3
738: 11
739: 11

Total: 201
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N8911E
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:34 am

Thank you for the info.. Does anybody know if UA is going to put a 744 on the SFO-ORD run this summer.. IIRC, they didn't have it for Summer 2011, but they did for Summer 2010. I am of course speaking of the early morning flight (6am)
 
drerx7
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:36 am

23 752 flights @ IAH is like 3x what it use to be...very good.
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codc10
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:36 am

Quoting N8911E (Reply 1):
Thank you for the info.. Does anybody know if UA is going to put a 744 on the SFO-ORD run this summer.. IIRC, they didn't have it for Summer 2011, but they did for Summer 2010. I am of course speaking of the early morning flight (6am)

It's not currently in the schedule. I don't expect to see it. UA's 747 fleet has shrunk by 4 frames since 2010 (if my math is correct) but many of the 'usual suspects' still have 747 service, so the fleet is stretched about as thin as UA wants to have it to maintain dispatch reliability.
 
compensateme
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:46 am

Quoting N8911E (Reply 1):
Does anybody know if UA is going to put a 744 on the SFO-ORD run this summer..

You do realize it's already June, right  .
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SHUPirate1
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:49 am

In terms of number of seats, which is larger, IAH or ORD?
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FSDan
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:06 am

Quoting N8911E (Reply 1):
Does anybody know if UA is going to put a 744 on the SFO-ORD run this summer..

The only widebodies on ORD-SFO as of the summer are 763s. 3x westbound and 1x eastbound I believe...

Also, as of the date I used for the data above (late July), the 744 won't be on ORD-FRA anymore. ORD-FRA will be 2x 777.

Only 744 routes from ORD will be ORD-NRT and ORD-HKG. It's really low utilization though, as the ORD-NRT and ORD-HKG flight depart an hour or two before the NRT-ORD and HKG-ORD arrive, so it's a 20+ hour turn/RON for both aircraft at ORD.
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n782nc
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:24 am

Impressive that SFO jumped from about 270 to 330 daily departures in a single year.

Knowing how bad UA needs gates right now, what ever happened to their plan to place all SoCal departures in Terminal 1? I haven't heard anything about it since it was announced and there's not any mention of it on SFO's website.

[Edited 2012-06-05 21:25:45]
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codc10
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:47 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 6):

Also, as of the date I used for the data above (late July), the 744 won't be on ORD-FRA anymore. ORD-FRA will be 2x 777.

Yes, sadly mine was one of those affected. The seat map shows an IPTE 777 but there is always the possibility that an old one will sneak into the schedule. I'll also miss 1A  !
 
jporterfi
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:03 am

Quoting FSDan (Thread starter):
IAD

SF3: 27

I didn't know that many Saab 340Bs were operated for UA! Where do they fly them to out of IAD? Airports a very short distance away like BWI, RIC, ORF and CRW?
 
AA737-823
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:19 am

So that's 10 total 744 flights a day with a fleet of, what, 24?????

Doesn't seem to bode well for the need of a 744 sized aircraft...
 
jporterfi
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:23 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):

Keep in mind that the airports on the other end of the 744 routes aren't listed here. Because the routes are so long, wouldn't they need two aircraft for every city pair? Based on that logic, it would turn into 20 utilized aircraft, with 4 not being utilized, which is not so bad. Please feel free to correct me if my logic is flawed.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:29 am

Out of interest, how are they rotating the 2 747s needed for LAX-SYD-MEL in and out of LAX? Via SYD?

Looking at the timetable LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO and SFO-SYD-LAX are definitely doable, or are they using an occasional sub on a domestic flight?
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Beardown91737
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:56 am

The 744s are on TPAC from SFO and LAX, plus SFO-FRA. All 10.5 to 13.5 hour flights times. That puts the utilization in a different perspective than if they were doing EWR-LHR all day.
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KLASM83
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting FSDan (Thread starter):
LAX:ER4: 1

Makes me wonder where this ER4 goes and whom operates it. Is it a Mexico run, like in the CO days, or is it a funny one-off IAH run?
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ADent
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:14 am

CLE
Mainline: 36
RJ: 113
Prop: 52

DEN
Mainline: 147
RJ: 286
Prop: 7

EWR
Mainline: 212
RJ: 161
Prop: 71

IAD
Mainline: 96
RJ: 148
Prop: 48

IAH
Mainline: 275
RJ: 364
Prop: 10

LAX
Mainline: 113
RJ: 55
Prop: 55

ORD
Mainline: 218
RJ: 424
Prop: 0

SFO
Mainline: 176
RJ: 86
Prop: 68
 
jporterfi
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:27 am

Quoting KLASM83 (Reply 14):

It goes to DGO. LAX-DGO is operated as flight 4323 on Fridays and flight 4518 on Sundays. DGO-LAX is operated as flight 4153 on one Saturday (1st Saturday of the month maybe? I'm not exactly sure how that section of the timetable works.) and as flight 4707 on the remaining Saturdays and on Thursdays. The flights are operated by EV (ExpressJet) as a CO contract.
 
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KLASM83
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:43 am

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 16):

Ok, I see how that works, now. Just like the old times. Thanks for the info!
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jetskipper
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:14 am

It looks like ORD lost all of their LCAL 757-300 flights.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:48 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 5):
In terms of number of seats, which is larger, IAH or ORD?
Quoting ADent (Reply 15):
IAH
Mainline: 275
Quoting ADent (Reply 15):
ORD
Mainline: 218

IAH has nearly 60 more daily mainline flights vs. ORD, that pretty much answers your question.
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mogandoCI
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:55 am

In terms of WB only : (sad that LAX mini-hub only has 5)

SFO (25)

763: 9
764: 1
777: 8
744: 7

EWR (24)

762: 1
763: 5
764: 7
777: 11

IAD (22)

763: 7
764: 1
777: 14

ORD (20)

763: 10
777: 8
744: 2

IAH (16)

762: 3
763: 2
764: 7
777: 4

LAX (5)

777: 4
744: 1

DEN (4)

763: 3
777: 1

CLE (0)
 
usairways85
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
So that's 10 total 744 flights a day with a fleet of, what, 24?????

Doesn't seem to bode well for the need of a 744 sized aircraft...

They do fly the longer stage legnths, however I feel like there are always 2-4 sitting at the ORD MTC center.

How many 762's remain? only 1 flt out of EWR for the summer.
 
FSDan
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:49 pm

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 9):
I didn't know that many Saab 340Bs were operated for UA! Where do they fly them to out of IAD?

CKB, CRW, MGW, BKW, SHD, CHO, JST, AOO, SCE, ABE, BGM. Also currently HPN but that service is ending before the date I used for the above data.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 16):
It goes to DGO. LAX-DGO is operated as flight 4323 on Fridays and flight 4518 on Sundays. DGO-LAX is operated as flight 4153 on one Saturday (1st Saturday of the month maybe? I'm not exactly sure how that section of the timetable works.) and as flight 4707 on the remaining Saturdays and on Thursdays. The flights are operated by EV (ExpressJet) as a CO contract.

   Yeah, it only got included in this report since it departs in the wee hours of the morning on Friday, which I figured was more like Thursday from a spotting perspective...
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jporterfi
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 21):
How many 762's remain? only 1 flt out of EWR for the summer.

According to planespotters.net and airfleets.net, 7 are in active service, but I'm not sure how accurate that information is. They are N76151, N73152, N76153, N69154, N67158, N68159, and N68160.
 
cle757
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:07 pm

CLE has a few 757's as well
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wilsonleiser
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:00 pm

Does anyone know what flight does the 764 operate out of IAD?
 
codc10
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:05 pm

Quoting wilsonleiser (Reply 25):
Does anyone know what flight does the 764 operate out of IAD?

IAD-HNL.
 
je89_w
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 10):
So that's 10 total 744 flights a day with a fleet of, what, 24?????

Doesn't seem to bode well for the need of a 744 sized aircraft...

For what it's worth, UA880/UA879 NRT-HNL-NRT will be upgauged from a B772 to a B744 starting tomorrow (8 June), and will remain on that route for the summer season.

Coincidentally, UA882/UA881 NRT-SIN-NRT will be downgauged from a B744 to a B772 starting tomorrow (8 June), although I am uncertain whether the B744 will return on this sector at the end of the season.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:30 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):

What's also interesting is how SFO has 3 more 757 flights than EWR (47 vs. 44). I thought EWR would have had the most because of the TATL routings but looks like they took a few off.

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 18):

Yeah what happened to those?

Quoting cle757 (Reply 24):

Are they still on the skeds for the summer? It's not listed by the OP
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airzim
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 20):
In terms of WB only : (sad that LAX mini-hub only has 5)

True but LAX is also getting a bunch more 753 flying. An ASM comparison would be interesting.
 
lhcvg
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 13):
That puts the utilization in a different perspective than if they were doing EWR-LHR all day.

Could they do two full LHR turns in that same time, or just one and a fraction of trip #2?

Quoting wilsonleiser (Reply 25):
Does anyone know what flight does the 764 operate out of IAD?

Offhand the 76H will run the IAD-HNL flight, as those are specifically tasked for HNL work. But we may eventually see some come onto European routes too.
 
codc10
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:45 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 30):

Offhand the 76H will run the IAD-HNL flight, as those are specifically tasked for HNL work. But we may eventually see some come onto European routes too.

Correct, but the 76H will remain in the EWR/IAH/IAD/SFO-HNL rotation. The 12 internationally-configured 764s (all soon to have flat beds, AVOD, power throughout) are candidates for some IAD service down the road.
 
lhcvg
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 31):
Correct, but the 76H will remain in the EWR/IAH/IAD/SFO-HNL rotation. The 12 internationally-configured 764s (all soon to have flat beds, AVOD, power throughout) are candidates for some IAD service down the road.

Good catch - didn't mean to imply the H's would see int'l service! But I'd have to belief some of those IAD routes are candidates for 764 int'l birds. IIRC and if Seat Guru is to be believed, those are a slightly less premium-heavy config than 763's and PMUA 777's, so that would seem ideal for some of the routes with less premium demand.
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 28):

I see UA993 CLE-SEA as a 757-200 currently in flight.
 
N960AS
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:06 pm

Yes, strange to see the lack of widebodies out of LAX, although I guess the 753 is the domestic 763 replacement. Sad for us that love the 2-3-2 of the 767 when in E/E+ but I guess best to use the 763 for their range. To compare, LAXIAD in terms of widebodies: (at the start of 2012) had 2x 777 and 1x 763, now it's down to 1x 777. IADLAX was usually a morning 763 and afternoon 777, now it's just the 777. However, today and tomorrow a 744 is on the route!
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 33):

Also see UA1160 LAS-CLE as a 757-300

Maybe it changes in July?
 
N8911E
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 4):
You do realize it's already June, right

Yeah, but it feels like late July/early August around here already   lol
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:00 pm

Hey FSDAN, thanks for the threads. Really appreciate the work, they're really interesting to digest and discuss. Keep them up!..

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 28):
What's also interesting is how SFO has 3 more 757 flights than EWR (47 vs. 44). I thought EWR would have had the most because of the TATL routings but looks like they took a few off.

The 757-300s have been pulled from EWR big time, obviously to support the West Coast-Hawaii flying. EWR-MCO alone usually flies with between 5-9 757-300s year round. Add 2 or 3 for LAS, another 2 or 3 for LAX and SFO, plus FLL, SJU, SDQ, PBI, IAH etc.. The 757-300s will probably make their way back to ORD and EWR in bigger numbers for the Winter season to Florida.

Last Summer EWR had 46 757-200 and 9 757-300 flights;

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/5121141/
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kgaiflyer
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 18):
It looks like ORD lost all of their LCAL 757-300 flights.
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 28):
Yeah what happened to those?

One each: to IAD-DEN; IAD-LAX, and IAD-SFO
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):

As a result, more 752s to EWR. PMUA will serve BOS, LAX, SFO, DEN, SEA, MCO, ORD, TPA, LAS on and off throughout the summer to pick up the slack of the lost 753s. Plus PMCO 757s will be on the usual suspects PBI, MIA, DEN, SFO, LAX, MCO and ORD (new)
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FSDan
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting cle757 (Reply 24):
CLE has a few 757's as well

Apparently they are going away during the peak summer schedule. I guarantee at least 99% accuracy on these threads  
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 28):
Are they still on the skeds for the summer?

No.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
Hey FSDAN, thanks for the threads. Really appreciate the work, they're really interesting to digest and discuss. Keep them up!

Thanks! I hope to keep posting them periodically. I think it's an interesting barometer of how the industry is changing and how mergers affect aircraft distribution among the hubs.
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point2point
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:22 am

Quoting FSDan (Thread starter):
DEN

...

Total: 440

For all of the talk of UA downsizing (or rightsizing) the DEN hub, isn't this 440 number about the same amount of flights pre-merger that UA/CO had together at DEN?

 
 
mogandoCI
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 41):
For all of the talk of UA downsizing (or rightsizing) the DEN hub, isn't this 440 number about the same amount of flights pre-merger that UA/CO had together at DEN?

approx half of that 440 is from 50-seater or smaller. i'm guessing the "downsizing" comes from down gauging, but keep the frequency (the only card UA can play)

not that i enjoy all those RJs left and right
 
capitalflyer
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 9):
Saab 340B

I think these will be on their way out as Colgan is under the pall of the Pinnacle bankruptcy. With it will probably go service to some of these close by small city destinations.
 
capitalflyer
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:28 am

Quoting ADent (Reply 15):
EWR
Mainline: 212
RJ: 161
Prop: 71

IAD
Mainline: 96
RJ: 148
Prop: 48

I would expect EWR will send its RJs and props to IAD while adding mainline over time.
 
WROORD
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:29 am

I thought UA had 744 on ORD-LHR morning flight?
 
FSDan
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:05 am

Quoting WROORD (Reply 45):
I thought UA had 744 on ORD-LHR morning flight?

I don't believe there is a UA ORD-LHR morning flight... and no ORD-Europe 744s this summer.
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UNITED777ORD
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RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:54 pm

Will UA keep the current number of flights at CLE through the end of the year or will they begin to downsize CLE in the fall?
 
codc10
Posts: 1750
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 47):
Will UA keep the current number of flights at CLE through the end of the year or will they begin to downsize CLE in the fall?

I don't think United has given any indication that they will downsize CLE. To the contrary, the public statements made by the company's leadership have been quite positive.

Of course, seasonal reductions in capacity for the slower part of the year are assured. Nevertheless, that they are operating about 20% more flights on peak-days than their contractual minimum of 170 bodes well for the hub.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4411
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: UA Summer 2012 Departures By Hub And Aircraft Type

Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 47):
Will UA keep the current number of flights at CLE through the end of the year or will they begin to downsize CLE in the fall?

The betting seems to be on downsizing. In another thread, the poster translates CLE flights into seats, namely 12,900. This is interesting considering CLE's O&D has ranged between 10,000 and 15,000 over good times and bad. Assuming its at the low end of that range currently, it's fair to estimate that UA currently is running a load factor approaching 70% just on O&D. It makes the flow traffic from hubbing trivial.

One ominous sign is that CLE-IAD frequency is slated to rise from four to six in August; that argues for further near-term elimination of smaller spoke routes to the southeast like ATL, GSP, CLT, RIC, and maybe RDU.

[Edited 2012-06-07 12:19:56]

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