fly2yyz
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:57 pm

Hey guys,

Just wanted to see what your views on this was? I saw that Ontario is still showing on their route map. I thought they would have wanted to wipe it off of their map...but its still there.

Any thoughts?
 
as739x
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:29 pm

Nope. They did awful on the route. My wife worked the flight at least 10 times and it was never more then 75% full. And the CEO even admitted they underestimate the loyalty of AC passengers. There are numerous destinations that they can fly to that will do better the YYZ.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
pnwtraveler
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:12 am

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:25 am

There are 5 AC flights a day, up to 3 BA, and numerous charters to other centres in Britain than LHR. The route has been somewhat soft due to the British economy for the last few years and there just isn't the room for another carrier. Virgin came in with a premium approach and it just didn't resonate with enough business flyers. We will see how YVR does. Canadians travel in First Class less often, so that is why the Executive First for AC works well. Halfway between First and Business but with J Class fares. Without the First Class approach I don't see how Virgin can make itself stand out from the competition.
 
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legacyins
Posts: 1819
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:28 am

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 2):

VX= Virgin America
 
AS739BSI
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:35 pm

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:48 am

IAH and ATL to me are better fish to fry given there isn't too much competition to those airports from SFO and LAX. LAX-IAH is dominated by UA with a few AE departures in between. You also have WN going to HOU. SFO-IAH is nothing but UA with WN doing OAK-HOU. I think VX could probably add some much needed competition at IAH from SFO. LAX I am not sure if people would stick to AE RJs or would take the opportunity to switch over to a VX mainline. ATL you have FL and DL in both markets. VX would be nice to have in order to stimulate some fare competition. Now what I am not sure is if VX were to start these rotues would they be sustainable or do these markets already have more than sufficient capacity? I think IAH would be best right now given UA's troubles currently. ATL I am not so sure about.

YYZ I do not see happening given the load factors and the high taxes at Canadian airports.
 
pnwtraveler
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:12 am

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting legacyins (Reply 3):
Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 2):
VX= Virgin America

My bad. Friday nights after a long week and I skimmed to fast.

Same answer different details haha. No with all the competition already on YYZ to LAX I don't see room there for another airline either.
 
SANFan
Posts: 3696
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:22 am

I would expect that with all the potential new cities that VX probably has on their list for new routes (from LA and SF), we shouldn't expect to see any "do-overs". I would put the chances very close to zero that Virgin America would serve YYZ again for many years. (Same for SNA.)

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lostsound
Posts: 459
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 1:43 pm

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:08 pm

I think if VX was to return to Canada, it would probably be A319 service to YVR. YYZ is too expensive and the YVR-LAX route is dominated by loyal AC/WS passengers. However the YVR-LAX route, also pretty heavy, shows less single-airline devoted passengers.
 
ACT7
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:27 pm

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 2):
There are 5 AC flights a day, up to 3 BA, and numerous charters to other centres in Britain than LHR. The route has been somewhat soft due to the British economy for the last few years and there just isn't the room for another carrier. Virgin came in with a premium approach and it just didn't resonate with enough business flyers. We will see how YVR does. Canadians travel in First Class less often, so that is why the Executive First for AC works well. Halfway between First and Business but with J Class fares. Without the First Class approach I don't see how Virgin can make itself stand out from the competition.

I know we're talking about VX and not VS, but VS startedto YYZ just before 9/11 and flew to LGW. Bad choice imo. There is always room for another premium carrier between YYZ-LHR.

VX I don't see happening either for a while. I don't see them even flying to YVR. That route is pretty saturated as it is, but now that VS flys there they may have some feeder traffic that they could capitalize on.
 
pnwtraveler
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:12 am

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:51 pm

Back in the day prior to WestJet becoming the size it is, Alaska started LAX-YYZ service. It was also portrayed as a premium service for no additional cost. I remember much ado being made over the better meal service, in flight movies, 2/3 across MDwhatevermodel service, etc. It didn't last long.

The biggest big wigs fly private. The next tier of First flyers are pretty slim. My point about the J Class vs. First Class still applies, in that Canadian businesses are more conservative and hence aren't likely to spring for a true First Class fare on a flight of that length. And if they are frequent fliers, chances are they are already tied into a FF plan, like Star Alliance or One World. If so those J class upgrades are addictive and status once achieved is hard to ingnore. So to truly compete you would have to match frequencies are at least come close. Offer to match status or better the incentive to fly on that route. All of which is very expensive and makes breaking in and getting a reasonable return difficult.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:16 pm

I think if VX were to try to serve the Toronto area again they would just fly to BUF. It is much cheaper to operate from, has lower taxes, has no competition to LAX and SFO, and has quite generous incentives out for flights to the west coast.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3019
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: A VX Return To YYZ? Possible?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:28 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 10):
I think if VX were to try to serve the Toronto area again they would just fly to BUF. It is much cheaper to operate from, has lower taxes, has no competition to LAX and SFO, and has quite generous incentives out for flights to the west coast.

   This is effectively what Allegiant and Spirit do by serving IAG. The burden of an international crossing lies with the customer and thus results in greater simplicity for the airline.