LOWS
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Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:07 pm

Pretty straightforward question. They would seem to be an ideal candidate for Star membership, they have a good safety record and fly a modern fleet.

...so why not?
 
JU068
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:09 pm

Wouldn't Utair be a more suitable candidate? After all some Star Alliance carriers are moving their operations to Vnukovo.
 
gkirk
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:58 pm

Aren't they pretty much a charter airline?
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LOWS
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
After all some Star Alliance carriers are moving their operations to Vnukovo.

Only Lufthansa and 4U, I think. And they're still operating at DME, surely.
 
irshava
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting gkirk (Reply 2):

Wow a charter airline with a fleet of 83 aircraft and 28 on order... impressive.  
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 3):
Only Lufthansa and 4U, I think. And they're still operating at DME, surely.

At the moment SQ still have there flights through DME on it's way Singapore to Houston. I think that LH has already some flight to Vnukovo. 4U has changed fully to VKO!

Hard to say if UN is really simply charter even they have some destinations that are only in Winter e.g. On the other hand they do have a very high Business Class!!

I'm sure that Sky Team is no question cause of SU out of SVO and Star Alliance is out of the question. For me it would be One World for sure!!! But only my guess!!!
 
PHX787
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:54 pm

TransAero is rapidly expanding and I think they'd be a suitable member for Oneworld or *A. If they join Skyteam, that only spells one thing   
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LOWS
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 5):
tar Alliance is out of the question. For me it would be One World for sure!!! But only my guess!!!

Why? They already have S7. I figured it would be * or nothing.
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 7):

But I'm pretty sure S7 doesn't do long haul.... Not an expert in Russain aviation but could S7 and Transaero merge? Giving Transaero a good short haul network, giving S7 a good long haul network. Could it work? If they are both in OW then each can compliment each other.
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
After all some Star Alliance carriers are moving their operations to Vnukovo.
Quoting LOWS (Reply 7):
Why? They already have S7. I figured it would be * or nothing.

Can be possible that Star will move fully to Vnukovo incl. SQ. And remember SQ had to reduce some flight on its Houston leg from daily to 4 or 5 a week. What ever the reason was I doubt that will enter Star.

Also UN has flights out of Vnukovo also.

Yes, S7 is OneWorld and there would be all the space for coming aircraft that are on order and have just been there in DME and building is going on!!!
 
fvtu134
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:31 am

Personally I think the Business model of UN is not really aligned with the typical Star Alliance carriers with a heavy portion of charter flying.

I personally hadn't heard about a potential move of LH to VKO. That would surprise me with DME being the absolute prime point of entry for Moscow (quality/comfort wise) and most carriers know it. There is a reason why carriers like UT Air which were heavily VKO dependent also started operations in DME.

With UTAir going through some renewal they could be looking at partnerships and the work they do towards Oil&Gas regions may bring Star some high paying/high mileage customers however the question is whether Star thinks that they are the right partner.

S7 is now integrated into OneWorld. I fly them several times monthly and still consider them the best carrier in Russia service wise. While I was surprised that Star let this one slip away (I know they were eying them) it is Star's loss and OneWorld's gain.

As an outside possibility, I would maybe consider Ural Airlines. They are now also heaviliy DME focussed and expending towards other cities. While they may not have the large fleet yet, they seem to be investing and flying modern equipment. Having never flown them myself I cannot say much about them apart from the fact that their airplanes look nice  

FVTu134
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JU068
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:37 am

In addition to Lufthansa and Germanwings, Turkish Airlines operates up to 19 weekly frequencies from Istanbul to Vnukovo. They also operate a daily flights from both Ankara and Antalya, but then I guess that the latter is a charter flight.

On the other hand you have 14 weekly frequencies operated by Lufthansa from Frankfurt, 14 from Dusseldorf and 12 flights from Tegel/Brandemburg.

Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa are the most important Star Alliance carriers in Europe and if both of them have so many frequencies then I guess we will see a clear shift of Star Alliance towards Vnukovo.

The interesting thing is that Transaero is adding some flights from Vnukovo. Regardless of that, I still think Utair is the better candidate for Star Alliance than Transaero.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:48 am

I think Transaero have a similar problem to VS. They are really two different airlines in one. A scheduled operation and a charter operation. If the charter part were to be spun off a merged UN/UT could be very attractive to Star. UN has a great safety record compared to most other Russian carriers, but unfortunately, from what I have read, their customer service record is not so great.
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:08 am

Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 10):
That would surprise me with DME being the absolute prime point of entry for Moscow (quality/comfort wise)

Yes, me too!!

Quoting ju068 (Reply 11):
Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa are the most important Star Alliance carriers in Europe and if both of them have so many frequencies then I guess we will see a clear shift of Star Alliance towards Vnukovo.

And what about LX? They have multiple flight from ZRH and GVA each day!

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 12):
but unfortunately, from what I have read, their customer service record is not so great.

Yes, I was reading this also, but made my own experience and was very good. Should take the chance and if then not under 8hours flight!
 
JU068
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:13 am

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 13):

And what about LX? They have multiple flight from ZRH and GVA each day!

But Swiss operates to DME not VKO, the same as Austrian.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:20 am

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 13):
Yes, I was reading this also, but made my own experience and was very good. Should take the chance and if then not under 8hours flight!

Thanks for that. It is always difficult to judge an airline which one has not yet flown as these things are quite subjective, I know that in the past I have been pleasantly surprised by airlines I wasn't expecting much of ( Iran Air for example ) and severely disappointed by airlines that others have raved about ( I found EK to be far below the image they present in their advertising, in fact in 3 sectors with them in J I had two completely unacceptable experiences , one in the air and one on the ground) .

If I am in Russia in the next few years I will probably try UN over the others for their safety record as much as anything.
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:50 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 14):
But Swiss operates to DME not VKO, the same as Austrian.

In this way it makes it clear & at the moment there are two flight's in to DME with LH (FRA & MUC).

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 15):
If I am in Russia in the next few years I will probably try UN over the others for their safety record as much as anything.

Should do and book it online... the offers are really good!!! I know that people complain about some services. As you on EX I had the same on SU even can't compare the companies on same level. Been on SU a couple of times but had my experience also like you. Not only on flight but on ground also!! But little off-topic now!!  
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 8):
Not an expert in Russain aviation but could S7 and Transaero merge?

I proposed the same question in a previous thread, and the idea was rejected by the a.net "Russian" experts. My ideal scenario would be for S7 and UN to merge while SU switches to *A.
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dazeflight
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:45 am

The fact that several Star Alliance Airlines continue to have flights to DME is not relevant to the observation that after the inauguration of the new International Terminal, VKO was able to catch a substantional amount of LH and TK flights. Just like LH was one of the first movers from SVO to DME, this could be a clear sign that Star Alliance is checking out how VKO works from them. Quite understandably so as DME's has gone down the drain from the best Moscow Airport to the worst, if you ask me - at least regarding international flights. Bot VKO and SVO are more comfortable nowadays. Apart from that, it should be pretty well known that LH and UTAir already have a cooperation.
 
kventz
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting LOWS (Thread starter):
...so why not?

UN's CEO Olga Pleshakova said they just do not need to join to any alliance by now. Indeed, UN grows so rapidly, any membership can slow them down.
 
kventz
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:56 pm

Quoting gkirk (Reply 2):

Aren't they pretty much a charter airline?

Not really...

Quoting LOWS (Reply 3):
Only Lufthansa and 4U, I think. And they're still operating at DME, surely.

LH has moved about a half of their flights to VKO (Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf) leaving Munich and Frankfurt in DME.
And you fort about TK. They have moved all their Moscow flights to VKO.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 11):
The interesting thing is that Transaero is adding some flights from Vnukovo.

Because DME can not hold them already, they grow much faster than DME capacity.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 14):
But Swiss operates to DME not VKO, the same as Austrian.

There are huge reconstruction works in VKO now: second part of terminal A, runway and apron massive reconstruction, new rapid-exit taxiways construction. All works should be finished this year. Let's see how the balance between DME, SVO and VKO all change next year.  
 
vegetables2001
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:39 pm

Why would they want to be member of an alliance?

The most successful airlines these days (EK/FR/SW) aren't.
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dazeflight
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:50 am

^ You realize those airlines have totally different business models, right?

Having said that, I am unsure what Transaero could gain through an Alliance membership. Seems for now they are better off without.
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting KVentz (Reply 20):
LH has moved about a half of their flights to VKO (Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Dusseldorf) leaving Munich and Frankfurt in DME.

Not all are in DME

FRA - DME

LH1444
LH1446
LH1448
LH1450

FRA - VKO

LH1470
LH1472

MUC - DME

LH2526
LH2528
LH2530

MUC - VKO

no flights
 
JU068
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:50 am

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 23):

You forgot to add Berlin, they have almost double daily flights.
That means Lufthansa's operates up to 4 daily arrivals, I think that should make it a considerable international player in VKO.
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:25 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 24):
You forgot to add Berlin, they have almost double daily flights.
That means Lufthansa's operates up to 4 daily arrivals, I think that should make it a considerable international player in VKO.

Ok   but getting slightly off-topic..  
 
airevents
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:58 am

In my opinion, UT Air would be much better contribution to Star network wise. They have service to any major city in Russia (with the exception of the Far East, but that is coming now with a couple of 767s due to be delivered) and often multiple daily frequencies. They have a huge hub operation at Vnukovo in place, much more comfortable to use now with the new terminal in use. I would not rule out Transaero joining Star or any other alliance but for Star Alliance, with Russia still largely a white spot for them, UT Air would be much more interesting. After all, Transaero does have a decent scheduled network but much of their flying is things like Yekaterinburg to Bangkok or Moscow to Maldives, thus more of a focus on leisure flying.
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redzeppelin
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:58 pm

All of the Russian carriers will become much more attractive as alliance partners if and when Russia's visa regulations are relaxed. I think that leisure travel to Russia is artificially low due to visa requirements. Russian airports are well positioned to connect flights between Europe and Asia, but even transfers can sometimes require an expensive visa.

What about the Ukrainian carriers? Anybody see Aerosvit or UIA joining an alliance? Kiev could be an excellent connecting point for certain routes, they just opened a nice new terminal there, and there are no visa restrictions for most western countries. Thoughts?
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 27):
ll of the Russian carriers will become much more attractive as alliance partners if and when Russia's visa regulations are relaxed. I think that leisure travel to Russia is artificially low due to visa requirements. Russian airports are well positioned to connect flights between Europe and Asia, but even transfers can sometimes require an expensive visa.

Agree with you!!! I had actually the same thought today about the Visa's. Getting some information from Russian Embassy here in Switzerland they told me that I do need a Visa if fly to Moscow (in my case was DME) and transfer the same day on a other flight. From a TR I saw that there is a Transit in DME that there is no Visa required!! When I was there simply didn't see it!!! So got a Visa with double entry as on the way back was staying at a hotel. Maybe somebody can really say if one need's one there!

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 27):
Kiev could be an excellent connecting point for certain routes, they just opened a nice new terminal there

Not only a connection point but also a great stopover ... City is wonderful and also the new Terminal they built...  
 
LOWS
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 27):
What about the Ukrainian carriers? Anybody see Aerosvit or UIA joining an alliance? Kiev could be an excellent connecting point for certain routes, they just opened a nice new terminal there, and there are no visa restrictions for most western countries. Thoughts?

I think OS holds a stake in one of those. UIA, maybe?
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 28):
Getting some information from Russian Embassy here in Switzerland they told me that I do need a Visa if fly to Moscow (in my case was DME) and transfer the same day on a other flight. From a TR I saw that there is a Transit in DME that there is no Visa required!! When I was there simply didn't see it!!! So got a Visa with double entry as on the way back was staying at a hotel. Maybe somebody can really say if one need's one there!

Russia allows visa-free transit in some situations. There is a maximum layover of 24 hours, you must arrive and depart from the same terminal, and not all airports allow it. The US State Department suggests that everyone get a visa, even if you think you don't need it. If a flight is cancelled, delayed, or departs from a different terminal unexpectedly, you could be in a big mess. I know from experience. I swore after transiting DME/SVO in 2001 that I would never do it again... I need to write a retro trip report about that one some day.

[Edited 2012-06-12 09:45:12]
 
B738FlyUIA
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:01 am

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 30):
Russia allows visa-free transit in some situations. There is a maximum layover of 24 hours, you must arrive and depart from the same terminal, and not all airports allow it. The US State Department suggests that everyone get a visa, even if you think you don't need it. If a flight is cancelled, delayed, or departs from a different terminal unexpectedly, you could be in a big mess. I know from experience. I swore after transiting DME/SVO in 2001 that I would never do it again... I need to write a retro trip report about that one some day.

Yes, I do understand you!! In the end I did have the visa. The best is if you know that you will travel at least 4 or more times to or through SVO/DME/VKO.... then get one for a year!!! then one is more free to buy a ticket today and fly tomorrow for example!!

And if you do a TR in retro style then let me know!!!
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Why Hasn't Transaero Joined An Alliance?

Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting B738FlyUIA (Reply 31):
And if you do a TR in retro style then let me know!!!

It is now posted:
Comedy Of Errors: 2001 Ukraine Trip Retro Report (by redzeppelin Jun 20 2012 in Trip Reports)