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clickhappy
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A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:34 pm

An Airbus spokesman told AFP that the repairs "would take weeks" but declined to confirm the eight-week timeframe, equivalent to 30,000 hours labour, reported by FlightGlobal.

http://news.yahoo.com/airbus-says-a3...crack-repairs-weeks-192753742.html

Who pays?
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Thread starter):
Who pays?

It would have to be Airbus, would it not?

They specced the material and they assembled the parts in a way that stressed the material.
 
SKY1
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Thread starter):
Who pays?
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
It would have to be Airbus, would it not?

Interesting remark:

Quoting news.yahoo.com:
Airbus has said it will cover the cost of the repairs but will not pay any compensation for lost revenue during the work

I dunno why   but I think is the right time to take my resumé in the Airbus' legal affaires departament.

Many A380 customers could take Airbus into court as I don't think airlines will be satisfied only for covering repair cost
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tdscanuck
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 2):
Many A380 customers could take Airbus into court as I don't think airlines will be satisfied only for covering repair cost

They wouldn't get very far, I think. Aircraft warranties are very well contracted and codified and they've been like this for decades. No customer is surprised by this position. If the legal precedent comes down that OEM's are liable for lost revenue during repair, customers will suddenly find their airframes are considerably more expensive.

Tom.
 
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par13del
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 2):
Interesting remark:

Why, the OEM is responsible for the finished product that is sold to the airlines, you don't really expect an airline to sue one of Airbus siub-contractors for sub-standard work which created the wing crack issue?
 
SKY1
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
They wouldn't get very far, I think

It's much better for both getting a friendly agreement than go to face a suit, but for sure airlines are not going to be conformed and happy for the very first Airbus offer.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
Confuscius
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:15 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 2):

Airbus is very lucky not to have Air India as an A380 customer.
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lightsaber
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
They wouldn't get very far, I think. Aircraft warranties are very well contracted and codified and they've been like this for decades. No customer is surprised by this position. If the legal precedent comes down that OEM's are liable for lost revenue during repair, customers will suddenly find their airframes are considerably more expensive.

   The same is true with 787 delays. Boeing has only so much liability. Same with Airbus and the cracks.

If the airframers were truly liable for everything, air travel would be far too expensive.

Lightsaber

Late edit:
Wow... adding effectively the time of 3 C-checks is very significant. And the A380's C-checks are not 2 or 3 day jobs a la the 717.  duck 

[Edited 2012-06-10 16:28:43]
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SKY1
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
The same is true with 787 delays.

I disagree, it's not the same at all ...mechanical issues are way different to any delay in delivery.

It's more similar with the QF A380 engines issue. Dunno what happened in the end with it, but it's more serious any mechanical matter than delays which is pretty common these days on this business.

But I agree it wouldn't get very far, as try and reach a friendly settlement is the most usual. But my point is I don't think so airlines will do nothing and say "amen" to Airbus.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
ltbewr
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:48 am

Maybe the '30,000' worker hours includes the work needed and done since the event occurred, the prep engineering and during the repair as I suspect this is not in the mx databases/books/manual to figure out how to repair, supervisory and management time, testing and research, financial work, dealing with suppliers/subcontractors and their time as well, and leaving fudging room for the for sure unexpected problems that will come up. Such a calculation may be for internal and external accounting purposes, or trying to milk the insurance company for as much as possible to pay for the repairs.
 
something
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:04 am

German law follows the notion of ''Vertragsfreiheit'' (''freedom of contracts''), which means that you can write into a contract whatever clauses you wish if both signatories to the contract agree on it. Provided, it's all within the realm of legality. It is reasonable to assume that the purchasing contract between Airbus and their customers indemnifies Airbus of liability claims to the degree agreed on.

If that weren't the case, §434 BGB ff. apply. Following §437 BGB, the customer would be free to rescind the contract (ie, give the plane back) and claim indemnity (''Schadensersatz statt der Leistung'') or they could keep the plane and sue Airbus for the damages incurred due the 'defect as to quality' (''Schadensersatz neben der Leistung''). In legal terms this means: Airbus didn't deliver a free-of-defects article according to §433 Abs. 1 S. 2. BBGB, so the customer can invoke §280 Absatz 1 BGB.

Furthermore, there is §284 BGB, ''Ersatz vergeblicher Aufwendungen''. Instead of invoking §280 Absatz 1 BGB the vendee can alternatively invoke $284 BGB. This would allow the vendee to sue the vendor for the expenses he would have had, had he been delivered a flawless product (ie, if Emirates has to pay A380 crew they can't deploy, they could sue Airbus for their salaries etc.).

Legally speaking, the vendee's recourse is abundant. If any of Airbus' customers have signed a contract that specifically indemnifies Airbus of such claims, it's their own fault they're now getting nothing.

The customer enjoys a much cozier protection than the provider by the law. If a customer opts out of these legal protections, it's usually in exchange for some other form of gain. In simpler terms, if EK can't shake their forgone revenue out of Airbus, it's because they chose not to when signing the purchasing contract. If EK did in fact relinquish these legal protections, they won't have done so without receiving something in return. Nobody could see this coming and their gamble didn't quite work out. You win some, you lose some. It's a business, it's a strategy. Nobody is pissed at anyone but themselves here.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
jetfuel
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:25 am

This is turning into a major disaster for the A380. Its costing the airlines who have them millions
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kanban
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:35 am

While not saying so, I would bet that behind the scenes Airbus is sweetening some future sales prices as indirect compensation.. In some cases Boeing has compensated for repair and inspection man-hours, but never lost revenue.
 
phxa340
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:50 am

A bump , albeit, timely one, into the long successful life of the A380. Any engineer will tell you as technology evolves ... it creates new unforeseen issues, this is one of them. Like the 787 , an issue was identified ... and fixed. This isn't exactly the doomsday scenario some make it out to be.
 
frmrCapCadet
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:09 am

What does that come to - 15-20 worker years per plane, some $1.5 million. Not that welcome but not all that much against the current list price of a new plane.
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something
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:15 am

Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 14):
What does that come to - 15-20 worker years per plane, some $1.5 million

Unless of course they're getting a major tax break. Faulty designs are quite the job creators after all..
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
CM
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:25 am

Someone who knows the exact numbers can refine this, but here are some rough calculations based on what Airbus has told us.

>>>Airbus has set aside around $250M to cover the cost of A380 wing rib repairs.

>>>They have also told us there are 71 aircraft affected.

$250M into 71 aircraft = $3.5M per aircraft. If you allocate $500K for parts (a total guess on my part), that leaves $3M for labor. At $90 per hour for labor (typical fully burdened rate for US or Europe), that would work out to about 33,000 labor hours.

Whether 30,000 labor hours is close to the mark or not is hard to tell. It seems like a lot, but the math points that direction. What's definitely not on the mark are the people claiming this activity will take a couple days and will fit into a normally scheduled maintenance check. Don't kid yourselves; this is a major modification with an effort similar in scale to a D-check.

[Edited 2012-06-10 21:53:29]
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:42 am

Never mind the cost or hours.

If there are 20 people working on one aircraft and they work 40 hours per week, 30 000 hours translates to 37 weeks or about 9 months!

Maybe I am off in the number of hours per week a bit, or perhaps even more than 20 people can fit around an aircraft.

But still. I hope I did some math error, because this would mean that each aircraft is down for a significant amount of time!!!
 
Wisdom
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:23 am

Quoting CM (Reply 16):
Whoever came up with the 30,000 labor hours is probably pretty close to the mark. What's not on the mark are the people on a.net claiming this activity will take a couple days and will fit into a normally scheduled maintenance check. Don't kid yourselves; this is a major modification with an effort similar in scale to a D-check.

It will have to fit into the schedule of a heavier C-check to avoid major disruptions. The heavy C-checks are due after 72 months, unfortunately this isn't due for another 2 years for the earliest A380's.
30.000 man-hours is already quite something comparable to a complete lighter C-check for something the size of an A380.

Fortunately for them, the location of the ribs are quite easily accessible compared to narrowbodies and RJ's.

I think that Airbus would be better off doing the repairs themselves by establishing a dedicated team who goes around doing only that. That way they have control on costs by paying them directly and also would develop a fixed process that would ultimately save up to 30% on wasted materials and engineering resources. This would also ensure that the repairs are made to standards, and would take out the element of corner-cutting, (I like to call it on-paper maintenance) as practiced at maintenance facilities worldwide, which could lead to brand image risk for Airbus if something happens down the line.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:46 am

Quoting CM (Reply 16):
>>>They have also told us there are 71 aircraft affected.

So Airbus have confirmed the entire fleet is affected?

News reports keep saying "some" planes, so I've been confused to exactly how many airframes are affected.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:56 am

Quoting something (Reply 10):
Furthermore, there is §284 BGB, ''Ersatz vergeblicher Aufwendungen''. Instead of invoking §280 Absatz 1 BGB the vendee can alternatively invoke $284 BGB. This would allow the vendee to sue the vendor for the expenses he would have had, had he been delivered a flawless product (ie, if Emirates has to pay A380 crew they can't deploy, they could sue Airbus for their salaries etc.).

I was going to suggest that an operator could sue A for --at least-- irrecoverable operating costs lost (lease, crew, any licensing fees) during the repairs.

Quoting something (Reply 10):
Legally speaking, the vendee's recourse is abundant. If any of Airbus' customers have signed a contract that specifically indemnifies Airbus of such claims, it's their own fault they're now getting nothing.

And I am inclined to agree here. I would be stunned if any airline signed such a contract, especially given that all current operators signed their contracts before the first A380 flew.
-Doc Lightning-

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Wisdom
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:58 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 17):
If there are 20 people working on one aircraft and they work 40 hours per week, 30 000 hours translates to 37 weeks or about 9 months!

Maybe I am off in the number of hours per week a bit, or perhaps even more than 20 people can fit around an aircraft.

But still. I hope I did some math error, because this would mean that each aircraft is down for a significant amount of time!!!

It works a bit differently.
Of those 30.000 hours, consider at least 5000 hours, but up to 10.000 as done outside the perimeter of the aircraft.
This is time spent by maintenance planners, engineers and logistics/store, during and before the maintenance tasks.

The remaining 20.000 hours involve actual work and would likely be split over 2 or 3 shifts, depending on how much on-wing work can be done simultaneously, which will be the pacing item.
If 4 guys can work simultaneously in each wing respectively, you have 8 workers working on-wing.
In the meanwhile, other workers outside the aircraft will be cutting metal parts and assisting the men inside the wings at a ratio of 2 or 3 to 1.

Considering that and 3 x 9 hour shifts as the overlaps will be counted in the 30.000 hours, the repairs can be done in as little as 5-6 weeks, a bit longer than a regular C-check.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:00 am

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 21):
Of those 30.000 hours, consider at least 5000 hours, but up to 10.000 as done outside the perimeter of the aircraft.
This is time spent by maintenance planners, engineers and logistics/store, during and before the maintenance tasks.

Per frame? Wouldn't a lot of this work get redundant very quickly?
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CM
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:05 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
So Airbus have confirmed the entire fleet is affected?

Airbus originally said 67 were affected, but revised that to 71 the following day:

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...pairs-cost-airbus-105-million-0313

Also, if I am reading this correctly...

http://news.yahoo.com/eads-hit-airbu...cks-charge-064210233--finance.html

...Airbus originally took a €105M ($134M) charge in 2011 for the wing cracks, but followed that up with an additional €158M ($200M) in 1Q 2012. That makes a total of $334M, which is considerably more than I was thinking when I did my math above. Either the parts cost a ton more than I estimated, or there is even more labor involved in the modification than we're estimating. It's also possible there are some other costs reflected in that $334M that I am unaware of. Whatever the case, this is a really costly issue.
 
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747classic
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:54 am

According following Flight Global article :

- Separate repair will cost 8 weeks down time.
- Repairs can also be done during HMV, costing a "few" extra days
- Largest customer Emirates has no additional repair capability (during HMV) and will do an " all in one " repair by Airbus .
- Later built A380's featuring the recently-introduced revised wing design incorporating more twist and a lighter structure will require an earlier and different wing modification.

See : http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...eight-week-repair-downtime-372813/
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Wisdom
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:21 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
Per frame? Wouldn't a lot of this work get redundant very quickly?

This is what I'm saying, if Airbus builds a dedicated team and process, unlike having each airline do it themselves separately, the man-hour resources are likely to decrease with time.

A lot of the indirect work would then become redundant, say going from 10.000 hours to 4.000 hours.
There would still be engineering, planning and logistic work done, but the first 2 would significantly decrease. Logistics will not decrease by much as you still need the parts, raw materials as well as tooling and staff moved to get the job done.

The planning department would still need to plan human resources and prepare the individual tasks that form the repair package.
The different engineering departments would still need to be around to take pictures to measure the advance of the cracks on each frame for statistics, but also to prepare the repair (as most repairs on aircraft have some degree of customization required), monitor the repair, fill the paperwork.

With time, the actual work can also be done quicker as workers gather experience and waste less and less time finding their ways on drawings, get accustomed to the work process, etc...
This could reduce the workload by up to 20% by my estimates, and required man hours by 10% (as reduced workload doesn't convert into reduced resources at a 100% rate, partly due to the human being's lazy nature) from say 20.000 to 18.000 hours, so that total man hours go from 30.000 to 22.000 by the time the process reaches maturity.
 
sweair
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:32 am

Luckily they don't have either Qatar or AI as a customer..   Just ask Boeing how to do the re work  
 
cmf
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:24 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
So Airbus have confirmed the entire fleet is affected?

News reports keep saying "some" planes, so I've been confused to exactly how many airframes are affected.

All planes manufactured are affected as they need to have parts replaced.

Some planes have developed the cracks. The rest of them are expected to develop them.
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travelhound
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:32 am

Quoting something (Reply 10):

I'd assume the conditions of the contract would cover who is responsible for what on the planes already delivered. For the planes still assembly or the ones that will be delivered with the wing defect, the contracural conditions are probably less clear. There might be a fair amount of haggling between the airlines and Airbus over the next couple of years.
 
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Faro
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:37 am

I believe that it boils down to how one defines normal repair work. If such work can reasonably be expected to be required in operating an aircraft, then it's easy to preclude compensation for lost revenue.

How about wing rib cracks? Is there a reasonable expectation that these may develop in operating an aircraft or not? If yes, how about down time? Is there also a reasonable expectation that this should not exceed some specified period? If yes, then there may be grounds for at least partial compensation of lost revenues if this down time is significantly exceeded...


Faro

Edit: And as Lightsaber remarked in Reply 7: "Wow... adding effectively the time of 3 C-checks is very significant. And the A380's C-checks are not 2 or 3 day jobs a la the 717."

[Edited 2012-06-11 03:42:26]
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teme82
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:55 am

Would it be feasible just to replace the wing itself??? If I'm not mistaken the issue is caused how the wing is handled when it's made in the factory?
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something
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:02 pm

Quoting travelhound (Reply 28):
I'd assume the conditions of the contract would cover who is responsible for what on the planes already delivered. For the planes still assembly or the ones that will be delivered with the wing defect, the contracural conditions are probably less clear. There might be a fair amount of haggling between the airlines and Airbus over the next couple of years.

Legally, this is a very interesting point. If the vendee knows about the defect of an article, Airbus is no longer accountable for its repairs. Such an unforeseen circumstance grants the vendee an exit-out option, or ''special right of cancellation''. And this is where things become interesting: The airlines want the A380 but only to a certain (financial) extent; Airbus wants to sell the A380 but only for a certain price. Finding middle ground can prove to be quite difficult especially when one of your customers owns half your production single-handedly.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
aztrainer
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:07 pm

As a compensation could Airbus offer the airlines to complete a C-Check while the 380 is out of service? It seems as if this would be beneficial to the airlines as well as letting Airbus get good data on the wear points of the 380.

Quoting Wisdom (Reply 18):
I think that Airbus would be better off doing the repairs themselves by establishing a dedicated team who goes around doing only that.

Would this be prudent as I am sure they would be better suited to deal with the replacement in France and not at the MX facilities of the airlines. I worked as a heavy machinery mechanic and it was always easier to do the replacements in the shop than out in the field. IMHO

This does bring another question, would Airbus have to send pilots to ferry the plane back to France or would the airline provide the ferry crew?
 
B777LRF
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting teme82 (Reply 30):
Would it be feasible just to replace the wing itself???

Feasible? No - the cost of 142 new wings alone far outweigh the cost required to repair them. Besides, producing 142 wings for replacement will mean 71 new aircraft are not getting them, which in turn would result in 2 years without deliveries and the ensuring loss of cash-flow. No chance.
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting CM (Reply 23):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
So Airbus have confirmed the entire fleet is affected?

Airbus originally said 67 were affected, but revised that to 71 the following day:

This is the correct answer:

Quoting cmf (Reply 27):
All planes manufactured are affected as they need to have parts replaced.

Some planes have developed the cracks. The rest of them are expected to develop them.

Airbus information policy was really confusing: at the beginning of the year they were talking of some airframes and by the statements made by Enders and others one could think this will be fixed by the initial repair campaigns they started at that time. Only later it was reported that this was just an interim solution and that there will be a permanent fix, which will be applied to ALL airframes delivered until then (roughly 120).

Poor A 380s, first the French and the Krauts (I am allowed to say this   ) screwed up the wiring, and now the British screwed up the wings.
 
PanAm1971
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:41 pm

Everyone is fixated on the legal and buisiness aspects of this latest wing cracks issue. While this is understandable, it's vital that we-the aviation community-remember the most important aspect of this is safety. The A-380 carries nearly 500 men, women and children. Resolving this issue ASAP is the # 1 priority... all other considerations are secondary.

I also have to say-while I'm a big Boeing fan-I am truly sorry these issues have plauged an amazing aircraft. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved quickly and permanently.
 
cmf
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 34):
Airbus information policy was really confusing: at the beginning of the year they were talking of some airframes and by the statements made by Enders and others one could think this will be fixed by the initial repair campaigns they started at that time. Only later it was reported that this was just an interim solution and that there will be a permanent fix, which will be applied to ALL airframes delivered until then (roughly 120).

There are two different problems. They first was "easy". It is the second that is creating all the expensive difficulty.
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flightsimer
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):

Airbus themselves said they expected up to 120 A380s to be in fleet before 2014 when the permanent fix comes according to this flight global article.


http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-a380-wing-rib-crack-issue-372288/
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UA735WL
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:59 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 11):
This is turning into a major disaster for the A380. Its costing the airlines who have them millions

This is an issue, but not a program killing disaster if dealt with properly. The reason that people are worked up over it is that anyone in the aircraft industry who hears the word "cracks" thinks of things like the Comet disasters of the 1950s (Those are an example of a program killing disaster!) or Aloha 243 . The fact remains that this fault, while somewhat serious, was discovered and is being dealt with before it can do any harm. As for it costing airlines millions, I would think that Airbus would pay for the replacement, since they did the shoddy engineering work. I can see that carriers would be losing cash from lost revenue, which Airbus would be wise to compensate them for. Airbus can keep the A380 program going strong by handling this in the right manner(Taking up all expenses for repairs and doing it as conveniantly as possible for the operators). Potential customers will be watching to see what kind or customer service (for lack of a better term) that Airbus delivers. This could possibly even help Airbus if they manage to generate goodwill with the affected carriers. However, doing things like requiring airlines to to the repairs in house at their own expense will hurt them.
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flightsimer
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:05 pm

Did we ever get any more information on the type 3 cracks found in one plane? I cant remember if it was EK, Singapore or QF who had the frame... I just remember Airbus saying the cracks were that of neither type up to that point.
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glideslope
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 36):
There are two different problems. They first was "easy". It is the second that is creating all the expensive difficulty.

Let's hope there is not a 3rd.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
United727
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:58 pm

Alright, after reading this, may I ask if a continued problems exists with this issue OR get more serious then already divulged (if this is not the case already), could this potentially mean the end of Airbus (minimally BK??)? Just asking!!!!
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting United727 (Reply 43):
Alright, after reading this, may I ask if a continued problems exists with this issue OR get more serious then already divulged (if this is not the case already), could this potentially mean the end of Airbus (minimally BK??)?

Absolutely, unequivocally - no.
 
UALWN
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting United727 (Reply 43):
may I ask if a continued problems exists with this issue OR get more serious then already divulged (if this is not the case already), could this potentially mean the end of Airbus (minimally BK??)? Just asking!!!!

Yeah, a problem that will cost about $300 million to fix will sink a company with annual income of about $50 billion....  
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340
 
GRIVely
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:20 pm

Totally separate from the engineering and customer service considerations mentioned above this is turning into a PR nightmare. I was at Dulles Airport yesterday and I heard a passenger asking the Air France agent if the CDG flight they were working was a Triple 7 or a "Crack Jet?"

If passengers have already started referring to an A380 that way you know it is not boding well for the aircraft's reputation. Somewhat less humorous a sobriquet than "Jungle Jet" or "Barbie Jet."

GRIV
 
sweair
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:27 pm

Why would this end EADS? They can always rob us taxpayers inside EU if they need  

Airbus would survive even if the A380 would fail as a program. Crack Jet..sounds like something from the ghetto?  
 
cmf
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 35):
Resolving this issue ASAP is the # 1 priority... all other considerations are secondary.

It is being solved. ASAP on the other hand isn't important in this case. They are developing slow enough that there is time to fix it slowly.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 42):
Absolutely, unequivocally - no.

  

Quoting UALWN (Reply 43):
Yeah, a problem that will cost about $300 million to fix will sink a company with annual income of about $50 billion....  

Income doesn't mean a thing if it is all spoken for already. Fortunately Airbus is generating positive cash flow and have plenty of cash so 300 MUSD is expensive but not deadly.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
UALWN
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 46):
Income doesn't mean a thing if it is all spoken for already. Fortunately Airbus is generating positive cash flow and have plenty of cash so 300 MUSD is expensive but not deadly.

If a company cannot withstand an unforeseen circumstance that impacts its bottom line at the level of -0.6% of its income, then it is already in big trouble, cracks or no cracks...
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TaromA380
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:53 pm

How can Airbus hope to attract new A380 customers if they don't compensate current customers for aircraft manufacturer flaws ? It's already the second time customers get their fleet suspended (1st RR rev.A engines) and Airbus is not at all commercial with them.
 
sweair
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RE: A380 Cracks - 30,000 Labor Hours?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Maybe no customer has asked for compensation?