stlgph
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Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:57 pm

http://ir.allegiantair.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=682480

Seals the deal for Hawaii.

Allegiant says "happy with Hawaii bookings." So, we shall see.

Again,

Allegiant will offer nonstop air service to Honolulu, Hawaii from:

1. Las Vegas — begins June 29

2. Fresno, Calif. — begins June 30

3. Bellingham, Wash. — begins November 15

4. Monterey, Calif. — begins November 16

5. Eugene, Ore. — begins November 17

6. Santa Maria, Calif. — begins November 17

7. Stockton, Calif. — begins November 18

Allegiant will also offer nonstop air service to Maui, Hawaii from:

1. Bellingham, Wash. — begins November 14
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mli717fan
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:09 pm

They've been quite busy over the last year! Besides continuing to connect the dots with their current focus cities, they've added OAK, HNL, OGG. They've also doubled their presence at PGD. Congrats G4, keep up the good work.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:11 pm

Wll GOOOD for YOU, Now! How is your Maintenence Team IN Hawaii??
 
bobnwa
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:02 pm

How did Allegiant obtain Flag Carrier status, and who did they receive it from?
 
srbmod
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:10 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 3):
How did Allegiant obtain Flag Carrier status, and who did they receive it from?

They "received it" from the FAA. In order to be able to offer US-Hawaii flights a US airline has to be certified by the FAA as a "flag carrier".

http://aviationglossary.com/airline-...ag-carrier-far-121-flag-operation/

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...w=text&node=14:3.0.1.1.7.5&idno=14
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:22 pm

Good for them. That process seemed to go about as smoothly as you could expect for an ETOPS certification.
 
PHX787
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:54 pm

Now just sittin' back waiting for the AZA route   


I'm surprised G4 hasn't announced that one yet. You'd think it'd be a good route.
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atcsundevil
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
Now just sittin' back waiting for the AZA route

You'll be sitting back for a while
 
PHX787
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 7):
You'll be sitting back for a while

I had a feeling    any particular reason why?
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atcsundevil
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
any particular reason why?

No idea. That's just what I'm told...that it'll just be the MDs for the foreseeable future. Apparently they have the 57 lines painted on one of the new gates, but I'm guessing they're just planning for the future (hoping, really).
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:15 am

Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
. Bellingham, Wash. — begins November 15
Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
Eugene, Ore. — begins November 17
Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
Santa Maria, Calif. — begins November 17
Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
Stockton, Calif. — begins November 18

Have they announced the dates for suspension of these yet? Stockton is too close to Fresno for both to succeed and the others are way off the reality chart. I think they've taken a page from the Braniff operation book.
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YNGguins
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):
Have they announced the dates for suspension of these yet? Stockton is too close to Fresno for both to succeed and the others are way off the reality chart. I think they've taken a page from the Braniff operation book.

Trust me... do not doubt Allegiant and their ability to project profitable routes. Wink Wink.
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KELPkid
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:51 am

Wow, didn't know Hawaii required flag carrier status. When I saw this thread, I thought maybe they were going to start international casino junkets with their 757's  

So when does WN get flag carrier status?   
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FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:12 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):
Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
. Bellingham, Wash. — begins November 15
Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
Eugene, Ore. — begins November 17
Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
Santa Maria, Calif. — begins November 17
Quoting stlgph (Thread starter):
Stockton, Calif. — begins November 18

Have they announced the dates for suspension of these yet? Stockton is too close to Fresno for both to succeed and the others are way off the reality chart. I think they've taken a page from the Braniff operation book.

Stockton? G4 has been flying SCK-LAS as much as 12X per week. Proximity to FAT (and the even closer SMF, OAK and SJC) hasn't been an issue on that route. Just from the Stockton MSA last year there were about 350 residents traveling each week to Hawaii. Add in Sacramento and Livermore Valley draw and G4 should be able to capture enough to fill at least a flight a week. But the competing Hawaii service at SMF and other airports will be the battle to watch, not Fresno.

Santa Maria? Midway between both Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo (roughly 1 hour to either). So drawing from those 2 areas is what they see. SMX also has a longer runway (8004 ft) than SBA (6052 ft) or SBP (6100 ft). Over 550 people from San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties combined flew each week to Hawaii last year. Capturing 1/2 of that fills the single nonstop that G4 has planned.

Bellingham? G4 has been pulling well from Canada on existing BLI routes. The WSJ said this week Canadians are 62% of BLI passengers. But the battle here with AS is the item to watch.

Eugene? Can they sell 200 seats to Hawaii each week, could be possible. About 300 people per week from just the Eugene MSA flew to Hawaii each week last year. Having the only local nonstop should help G4 capture a lot of that traffic. Then the question is how much will they increase traffic via lower fares.
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FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:15 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
Wow, didn't know Hawaii required flag carrier status. When I saw this thread, I thought maybe they were going to start international casino junkets with their 757's

Watch for some south of the border service now that they have Flag status even if flown on the MDs. Mexico/Latin America to LAS; US to CUN and SJD; and US to Caribbean are all in the near future plans.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
ha763
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:07 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):
Have they announced the dates for suspension of these yet? Stockton is too close to Fresno for both to succeed and the others are way off the reality chart. I think they've taken a page from the Braniff operation book.

None of the cities Allegiant announced are being flown daily. This is Allegiant's style. Plus, the West Coast is the #1 market in Hawaii's tourism market.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
Wow, didn't know Hawaii required flag carrier status.

This is part of the FAA's definition of flag operations and the relevant part in bold:

2)Locations:

a)Between any point within the State of Alaska or the State of Hawaii or any territory or possession of the United States and any point outside the state of Alaska or the state of Hawaii or any territory or possession of the United States, respectively; or

b)Between any point within the 48 contiguous states of the United States or the District of Columbia and any point outside the 48 contiguous states of the United States and the District of Columbia.

c)Between any point outside the United States and another point outside the United States.

http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8900.1/V0...20Cert/Chapter%2002/02_002_001.htm
 
F9Animal
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:17 am

Congrats G4! Finally! Might have to look at a BLI to HNL trip soon.
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7673mech
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:49 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 5):
Good for them. That process seemed to go about as smoothly as you could expect for an ETOPS certification.

I would repectfully disagree.
There is nothing smooth about delaying your service by about 18 months and having to lease out the aircraft for a period.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):
and the others are way off the reality chart.
Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 13):

Eugene? Can they sell 200 seats to Hawaii each week, could be possible. About 300 people per week from just the Eugene MSA flew to Hawaii each week last year. Having the only local nonstop should help G4 capture a lot of that traffic. Then the question is how much will they increase traffic via lower fares

BLI and EUG will work for different reasons, BLI is the obvious BC traffic and the tax savings flying BLI-HNL vs YVR-HNL.
EUG will work because of the better fares, and one of the top markets to Hawaii that currently had no non-stop service. This means people from anywhere in the Willamette Valley will be using this flight, or you can connect via SFO, PDX or SEA and pay more.

G4's EUG flights will see SLE passengers, as it's just as easy and quick to drive from Salem to EUG than to PDX. EUG is on the north side of town, you don't even deal with any part of Eugene proper coming down I-5 heading south, where if you drive from SLE to PDX, you got a whole stretch of I-205 that can be bumper to bumper at any time of day.

I argue G4 will see increased growth in EUG, (Eugene-Springfield is the second largest catchment area in Oregon), plus people from as far away as Medford, Redmond, Roseburg, Albany, Mid and Southern Oregon coast and even possibly Portland if the fares are right will use this flight. Parking at Mahlon Sweet is also much less expensive and easier than PDX, and EUG is more centrally located for more of Oregon than PDX is. This was the first route I guessed when G4 first announced plans to fly to Hawaii and acquire some 757's, I'm proud I was right after all the flack I got, but also because I did put a lot of thought into it before guessing, way back then, at the time I was one of only a handful that guessed anywhere but LAS. AZA & BLI
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
UA735WL
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:06 pm

Am surprised at these routes- I was expecting them to fly to places like Hilo or Molokai from OAK.
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" -Tex Johnston
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
This was the first route I guessed when G4 first announced plans to fly to Hawaii and acquire some 757's, I'm proud I was right after all the flack I got, but also because I did put a lot of thought into it before guessing, way back then, at the time I was one of only a handful that guessed anywhere but LAS. AZA & BLI

Over the years the talk included OAK, AZA, LAX, LGB, etc.

But if you go back to the thread from two years ago when G4 announced actually buying the 757s I was the first that day to post EUG in the thread. Even then I was pointing out that G4 would operate from the smaller unserved cities not the large cities.   
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...735056&searchid=4735192ID4735192

My list back then included the actual routes starting (and some additional nearby markets the routes will be drawing from). The only thing I missed was LAS which is the base G4 is currently using for the 757s,
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
whatusaid
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 20):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 18):
This was the first route I guessed when G4 first announced plans to fly to Hawaii and acquire some 757's, I'm proud I was right after all the flack I got, but also because I did put a lot of thought into it before guessing, way back then, at the time I was one of only a handful that guessed anywhere but LAS. AZA & BLI

Over the years the talk included OAK, AZA, LAX, LGB, etc.

But if you go back to the thread from two years ago when G4 announced actually buying the 757s I was the first that day to post EUG in the thread. Even then I was pointing out that G4 would operate from the smaller unserved cities not the large cities.   
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo.....735056&searchid=4735192ID4735192

My list back then included the actual routes starting (and some additional nearby markets the routes will be drawing from). The only thing I missed was LAS which is the base G4 is currently using for the 757s,

One can only wonder if G4 has figured out Hawaii. Fresno had a huge demand initially and fares went up to $479 OW within two weeks of the announcement of new service, which was actually more expensive than the competition through LAX or SAN. If the seat maps were at the time were accurate from a trending perspective only, once the fares were at parity with AS and AA, bookings slowed dramatically. Now, the fares are down to more realistic levels, about $100 or so under AS which is generally the most competitive alternative. Looking at the seat maps now, and I'm not saying that's an accurate means to judge unsold seats, there are anyway from 40 to 80 unsold seats on each July departure. Bookings look to be picking up again.

G4 had a short window for FAT and LAS and the "greed" factor may have kicked in a little too soon and those initial flights may not perform as hyped. If they don't, I can hear the critics saying G4 stumbled badly.

I wish them well and the flag carrier status opens up many more opportunities for the travel company to expand. I don't think G4 has ever worried about expansion opportunities. Flag carrier status just opened up hundreds of new market pairs for the gas guzzling but cheap MD 80s...
 
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NC1844V
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:04 am

Great News! They are slowly growing, hopefully they can remain profitable with these new changes.

Thanks for sharing.
Steven
 
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 17):
There is nothing smooth about delaying your service by about 18 months and having to lease out the aircraft for a period.

You are surely correct. Their former VP of M&E was let go as a result of trying to add a new fleet type with ETOPS in only 6 months.....an impossible feat.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
robsaw
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting ha763 (Reply 15):
This is part of the FAA's definition of flag operations and the relevant part in bold:

So what practical effect does having the largely anachronistic "flag carrier" status still carry today?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:23 pm

Quoting robsaw (Reply 24):
Quoting ha763 (Reply 15):
This is part of the FAA's definition of flag operations and the relevant part in bold:

So what practical effect does having the largely anachronistic "flag carrier" status still carry today?

"Flag carrier" has a specific meaning to the U.S. FAA. Basically, I think a U.S. scheduled carrier needs flag carrier status if it wants to operate international services, or if it wants to operate between the 48 contiguous states and either Alaska or Hawaii, or between Alaska and Hawai, or between points entirely outside the U.S.
 
ha763
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting robsaw (Reply 24):
So what practical effect does having the largely anachronistic "flag carrier" status still carry today?

To simplify Viscount's answer, basically, the FAA says that a carrier with flag carrier status can fly in international airspace.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:42 am

Quoting ha763 (Reply 15):
None of the cities Allegiant announced are being flown daily. This is Allegiant's style.

It amazes me how well they do with that strategy.

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 19):

Am surprised at these routes- I was expecting them to fly to places like Hilo or Molokai from OAK.

I expect that to be later.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 20):
The only thing I missed was LAS which is the base G4 is currently using for the 757s,

You did well.

I'm curious to see how fast the routes grow...

Lightsaber
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FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Receives ETOPS/Flag Carrier Status

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:55 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
You did well.

I'm curious to see how fast the routes grow...

Lightsaber

Thanks. I honestly thought they would base out of HNL from day 1 to operate to the smaller cities. I didn't think they would work out of LAS or any place else with competition. But that HNL base may still happen.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain