LAXintl
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Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:03 pm

In further sign of the the Virgin carriers more closely aligning themselves, Virgin America and Virgin Australia joint filed with the DOT for permission to commence joint codeshare services.

Per the application, and consistent with open-skies agreements, the Virgin Australia plans to place its VA designator code on services operated by Virgin America within the United States in conjunction with foreign itineraries.

Carriers state they intend to commence codeshare services in July via points to/from Los Angeles.


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QANTAS747-438
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:13 pm

I thought that was the whole point to starting the "Virgin" group of airlines to begin with?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:50 pm

How does the DL JV fit into this?
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nycdave
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 1):

I thought that was the whole point to starting the "Virgin" group of airlines to begin with?

Not at all. Due to national laws and restrictions at the time of formation, codesharing was at most a future possibility going into business. No, each was formed as a business, aiming for profit, largely due to Richard Branson having some inexplicable (from a business standpoint) love of commercial aviation! The very different services/niches filled by the various Virgin carriers ought to be proof enough that, while under the same global brand, they were/(are) independent businesses with different strategies... Which are increasingly harmonizing offerings across the brands, in anticipation of further global integration.
 
smi0006
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:44 am

Interesting indeed, I must confess I wonder why it took them so long; It took them a while to establish an interline agreement, and thus far they only do bags not boarding passes. I hope we see more synergies between the airlines both operationally and marketing activities.

Minor segway... anyone have any ideas how long the DJ designator will be around before the whole company becomes VA?
 
Gemuser
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:47 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 1):
I thought that was the whole point to starting the "Virgin" group of airlines to begin with?

Again! There is NO such thing as a "Virgin" group of airlines in the normal way we use the word "group". Each is "independently owned & operated". There was no master plan to form a group of airlines, (at least up to Virgin America, I don't know why that was started) each was started as a response to specific local conditions in the local political/economic environment.

The only thing they have in common is that they license the brand name "Virgin" from the Virgin Group in the UK, there is no requirement in that license for them to cooperate with other "Virgin" branded airlines(AFAIK), so expecting them to act like they were a true group is unrealistic. That said this greater cooperation is a good step in the right direction.

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slinky09
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:09 am

Hopefully we'll see codesharing between VX and VS very soon, as well as recognition of FF status on each airline. All good things.

I wonder what this means, if anything, for alliance membership?
 
BA677
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:57 pm

You can already earn miles on Virgin America and Virgin Australia when you are a member of the Virgin Atlantic FF program (Flying club)
 
ryu2
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:08 pm

Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?
 
N659AA
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 4):
Minor segway... anyone have any ideas how long the DJ designator will be around before the whole company becomes VA?

The DJ code will be retired when the carrier converts to the Sabre Reservations System (PSS) later this year or early-2012
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:58 am

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

Because they already fly to LAX where they partner w/ DL who covers probably 5x as many destinations?
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slinky09
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:02 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

Because they already fly to LAX where they partner w/ DL who covers probably 5x as many destinations?

Doesn't mean it's not coming though.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:50 am

Sure one day they could end up in SFO, however keep in mind LA is a much larger local market to/from Australia.
Add in the bonus feed from DL and now VX @ LAX, its only tips the scales even further.
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

As far as I'm concerned, there is no reason the Virgin group of airlines should for their own alliance, and feed each others flights. We just need a VS flight to S. America, and a scissor hub city to work from. I could see Virgin Australia heading to SFO, and give some competition to UA, since QF pulled out. UA is very complacent on that route, IMHO.
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anstar
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 8):
Why doesn't Virgin Australia start SFO service, since it's the main hub for Virgin America?

And LAX seems to have just as many VX flights as SFO these days.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Sure one day they could end up in SFO, however keep in mind LA is a much larger local market to/from Australia.
Add in the bonus feed from DL and now VX @ LAX, its only tips the scales even further.

But isn't it an over-saturation out of LAX ?

LAX-SYD (5x) : QFx2, VA, UA, DL
SFO-SYD (1x) : UA monopoly (ever since QF handed the keys to the kingdom over)
 
LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 15):
But isn't it an over-saturation out of LAX ?

Probably not as airlines seem to fill them and continue adding more.

Look at other markets, NRT, LHR, ICN, TPE, etc with much higher competition and frequencies out of LAX vs SFO.

In reality SF has too much capacity for its local market, and hence why almost 50% of UA Pacific enplanements is connection feed.
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mogandoCI
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
In reality SF has too much capacity for its local market, and hence why almost 50% of UA Pacific enplanements is connection feed.

What's the source of this statistic ? And what's the equivalent metric for LAX (UA or total) ?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 15):
since QF handed the keys to the kingdom over)

Seeing as QF's international "kingdom" is allegedly losing hundreds of millions of dollars annually, and of all the routes to cancel QF chose SFO, I can't imagine it's something anyone is rushing to pick up.
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mogandoCI
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
Seeing as QF's international "kingdom" is allegedly losing hundreds of millions of dollars annually, and of all the routes to cancel QF chose SFO, I can't imagine it's something anyone is rushing to pick up.

"Kingdom" was referring to the gravy train of SFO-SYD that UA can now price gouge as they please, not QF's network

Funny you mention that since QF defenders all insist that SFOSYD was printing cash left and right for QF, but somehow they're willing to murder a cash cow in order to start DFW
 
LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:42 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 17):
What's the source of this statistic ? And what's the equivalent metric for LAX (UA or total)

You can ultimately derive it from DOT stats, but my number was from a "Hub Profile" that was produced as part of the merger workup analysis.

More specifically for SFO in 2009 mere 43.1% of about 7mil United enplanements were local compared with 79.4% of the 5.6mil at LAX.

Some UA SFO routes had connectivity rates as high as 75-80% range, for example SEA where 82% of customers to/from SEA connected to another flight. Very few UA SFO flights actually were under the 50% mark - MCO, JFK, BOS being notables. Compared to LAX, where it was almost reverse, with the bulk of enplanements being local, and only a few flights having very high component of connections - Hawaii and some UAX being those.

Ultimately, SFO as with IAD has flying that is significantly oversized for its local market, and must rely on feed to maintain its size.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
"Kingdom" was referring to the gravy train of SFO-SYD that UA can now price gouge as they please, not QF's network

United does not operate in a vacuum. Segment pricing is still competitive as you have other carriers in the market still. For example NZ, VA, QF, DL, HA, etc all offer SFO-SYD fares which keeps things competitive.

[Edited 2012-06-14 22:06:39]
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MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America/Australia Plan Codeshare

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:52 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
Funny you mention that since QF defenders all insist that SFOSYD was printing cash left and right for QF, but somehow they're willing to murder a cash cow in order to start DFW

As a general rule, airlines don't cancel profitable flying, no matter what anyone on a.net says.
E pur si muove -Galileo