AWACSooner
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United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:51 am

 
azstar
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:04 am

Some international fares are incredibly low. You can fly from LAX to SYD for as little as 205.00 each way. IAH to LHR for 175.00 each way. A big problem for airlines is that some countries and/or overseas airports charge HUGE taxes or fees. Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines) and Great Britain is almost as much. So, on a 400.00 fare, the cost of the ticket is pushed to almost $1000.00 with additional taxes and fees. Airlines are not making huge amounts of money on most fares, but the public doesn't realize, or care. They just think they're getting ripped off.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:12 am

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
They just think they're getting ripped off.

For $100 to haul a bag from NYC to LHR, I'd say that's being ripped off!
 
Mir
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:30 am

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
Airlines are not making huge amounts of money on most fares

They could always raise them if they're having trouble making money.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
DLD9S
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:42 am

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
A big problem for airlines is that some countries and/or overseas airports charge HUGE taxes or fees. Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines) and Great Britain is almost as much. So, on a 400.00 fare, the cost of the ticket is pushed to almost $1000.00 with additional taxes and fees.

Sorry, but most of that "tax" is really fuel surcharges that go directly to the airline just like the base fare... Proper taxes, security fees and surcharges are more in the $75-$150 range...
717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
 
maxamuus
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:49 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 2):

For $100 to haul a bag from NYC to LHR, I'd say that's being ripped off!

Wonder what Fedex charges for a 50 lbs. package same day service from NYC to LHR ?
 
HPRamper
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 5):
Wonder what Fedex charges for a 50 lbs. package same day service from NYC to LHR ?

I think we would easily be talking four digits for same-day service. That hundred bucks isn't so bad!
 
SPREE34
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:56 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
They could always raise them if they're having trouble making money.

Therein lies a big part of their problem. I'm over simplifying, I know, but they have been under pricing themselves for so long, they've deminished the percieved value of the product.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
PHX787
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 2):
For $100 to haul a bag from NYC to LHR, I'd say that's being ripped off!

I checked UA for SFO-NRT (and for practicality sake, PHX-NRT with a layover) and it's $2,000. Round trip. Outrageous to have to pay that much more for international bags.
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ordbosewr
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:09 am

Here is the DL policy for NA to Europe:
80 USD/CAD or 56 EUR² if checked in online
100 USD/CAD or 70 EUR² at the airport

So, the UA policy matches the DL policy in conceptual terms.

I do not see this as outrageous. If people don't want to pay it there are MANY ways to get around this fee and some do include for those that do not travel that much.

edit: for pointing out the DL policy is for 2nd bag

[Edited 2012-06-13 20:10:12]
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:18 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this only applies to certain African countries...unless I'm somehow reading this wrong.

http://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/travel/Pages/CheckedBaggage.aspx

Quote:
**For tickets purchased on or after June 1, 2012, for travel on or after June 1, 2012, a second bag service charge of $100 applies for travel between North America, South America, Europe, the Middle East and Africa to/from the following countries in Africa: Algeria, Botswana, Egypt, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Morocco, Mozambique, Nambia, Tunisia, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.

The bolding is mine.

Edit: Yeah, I think I'm reading it wrong. The wording isn't very clear. Good thing I'm *G I guess..

[Edited 2012-06-14 02:22:54]

[Edited 2012-06-14 02:23:23]
 
trav110
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:41 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 5):
Wonder what Fedex charges for a 50 lbs. package same day service from NYC to LHR ?
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6):
I think we would easily be talking four digits for same-day service. That hundred bucks isn't so bad!

Just calculated it on Fedex, to get a 50 lb suitcase from NYC to LHR the fastest option would be leaving Friday and arriving Monday, and that's $1544. Not even a same day option available.
 
Josh32121
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:58 am

This charge is for the second bag--not the first. Why is it so ridiculous to charge for the second piece???
 
kalvado
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting trav110 (Reply 11):

Just calculated it on Fedex, to get a 50 lb suitcase from NYC to LHR the fastest option would be leaving Friday and arriving Monday, and that's $1544. Not even a same day option available.

with guaranteed delivery to the door and money back in case of 10 minutes delay.
Once airlines have anything remotely similar in CoC, then comparison would become valid.
 
airbazar
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:32 pm

Quoting kalvado (Reply 13):
with guaranteed delivery to the door and money back in case of 10 minutes delay.
Once airlines have anything remotely similar in CoC, then comparison would become valid.

There's more to it. No one decides last minute that they need a second bag. It's people who travel on vacation that usually need a second bag and those people don't need last minute, same day delivery. I find $100 to be a rip-off considering they're already ripping me off with the fuel surcharge on top of the fare which includes fuel costs but i think pax are learning to pack lighter as a result of these baggage fees. Where I see a problem is traveling with sports equipment like skis and golf clubs which in many cases it's considered a second bag. I'm not a golfer but for $100 it's a lot cheaper to rent skis for the week than to carry my own.
 
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par13del
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
A big problem for airlines is that some countries and/or overseas airports charge HUGE taxes or fees. Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines) and Great Britain is almost as much.

I would expect the airlines also make money on the taxes, after all, they do not remit those taxes to the government immediately after they collect them. Smart companies probably deposit those funds in high interest daily accounts and probably remit to the government on a monthly basis minus the interest, heck I would not be shocked to know that some governments actually pay the airlines a fee for "collecting their taxes"

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
They could always raise them if they're having trouble making money.

Agree, let the blame fall where it should rather than join the movement to "hide" the problem.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 2):
For $100 to haul a bag from NYC to LHR, I'd say that's being ripped off!

FedEx, DHL and others should apply to the airports to obtain space close to the airline counters like the guys who shrink wrap your bags, I'm certain with the added volume these companies can beat the airline prices, especially since they are flying older more gas guzziling a/c, flying on their own schedule, and charging premiums prices to companies who want products delivered overnight. So just as the same a/c has a first class and Y, each flight would be carrying priority bags / packages as well as those that were given to them two days earlier.

Shipping pax bags is already a new business, there are some who have already started, until somone big like DHL or FedEx does the same.........
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
I find $100 to be a rip-off considering they're already ripping me off with the fuel surcharge on top of the fare which includes fuel costs but i think pax are learning to pack lighter as a result of these baggage fees.

Why is it a ripoff to charge for a 2nd bag? I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground? Your bag adds weight, that weight makes the plane heavier, which means more fuel has to be burned to get from point A to point B. If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me. If you don't want to pay it, learn to travel with less stuff.
 
hohd
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:36 pm

Not many check 2nd bags since the fee was high at $70. DL and UA decided that they will not lose any more business by raising it to $100 as those who opt to check for second bag are going to pay $30 more anyway.

But it is a problem for people buying tickets in Africa, Middle East or India, as many buy from travel agents who mistakenly or delibrately tell them that 2 bags are allowed to US (since some airlines do and some dont) and get into shouting matches at the airport with the staff.
 
kalvado
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:36 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me.

Those flying non-rev should be royally pissed off by such approach.
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:39 pm

Quoting kalvado (Reply 18):
Those flying non-rev should be royally pissed off by such approach.

Non-rev benefits have nothing to do with this discussion.
 
StarAC17
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:46 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 12):

This charge is for the second bag--not the first. Why is it so ridiculous to charge for the second piece???

Because when you are flying long haul you may be going for a longer period of time and warrant 2 bags. Also most airlines on international long haul allow 2 bags. Many times I have been charged for a heavy first bag and I could have simply walked over to the travel shop and bought a duffel bag for $10 and checked the second bag free of charge.

Question now does this apply on a points ticket without *A status in Y and when does this take effect?
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kalvado
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 19):

Non-rev benefits have nothing to do with this discussion.
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me.

You are contradicting yourself. Common argument towards non-rev is that "the seat would be empty otherwise, so airline doesn't loose anything". Similar argument could apply here - that hold space would be empty otherwise.
Incremental cost of fuel for flying a person trans-atlantic is around $20, bag - $5; ground handling of a bag is probably same $5 at most.
(edit:grammar)

[Edited 2012-06-14 07:46:46]
 
Rdh3e
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 4):
Sorry, but most of that "tax" is really fuel surcharges that go directly to the airline just like the base fare... Proper taxes, security fees and surcharges are more in the $75-$150 range...


EWR-LHR
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $16.70
U.S. Security Service Fee $2.50

LHR-EWR
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $16.70
U.S. Customs User Fee $5.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee $7.00
U.S. APHIS User Fee $5.00
U.K. Air Passenger Duty $100.67
U.K . Passenger Service Charge $53.41

It's $19.20 on the way out and $188.28 on the way back for a total of $207.48

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines)

You must be including fuel surcharge or something which is not a government item.

LAX-SYD
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $16.70
U.S. Security Service Fee $2.50
Australia Passenger Service Charge $25.16

SYD-LAX
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $16.70
U.S. Customs User Fee $5.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee $7.00
U.S. APHIS User Fee $5.00
Australia Passenger Movement Charge $46.36
Australia Passenger Service Charge $25.16

Totals to $150.08
 
nethkt
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:54 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 20):
Because when you are flying long haul you may be going for a longer period of time and warrant 2 bags. Also most airlines on international long haul allow 2 bags. Many times I have been charged for a heavy first bag and I could have simply walked over to the travel shop and bought a duffel bag for $10 and checked the second bag free of charge.

That's because you people carry everything you can, more than what you really needed.
Solution? easy, pack what is really needed!!
Reuse a few sweaters and limit yourself to maximum of two fancy outerwear when travel to colder climate.
It's not like everyone is going to Milan fashion week.
And when you go to warmer climate you carry lighter stuff, hence more costume/outfit to carry with.
No need to throw your junk and carry them with you. It's a waste of energy too!
More fuel burn due to junk items being carried with you.
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
Mir
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground?

I believe we have reached the point where airlines are making so much off of baggage fees that they can afford to keep base fares lower than they otherwise would. So who is really subsidizing whom?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Rdh3e
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
I believe we have reached the point where airlines are making so much off of baggage fees that they can afford to keep base fares lower than they otherwise would. So who is really subsidizing whom?

-Mir

Airlines waive baggage fees for so many customers that they are still making a loss. I've studied it in depth, baggage fees are only charged on something like 30% of bags.
 
ORDJOE
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:05 pm

To fedex a 50lb package from Chicago to london is $525 USD and that will take 5 days, so 100 for real time delivery is not too bad in comparision.

In all honesty I can make 1 roller carryon and a checked bag last me 2 weeks if not longer, I do not understand why people would need a second checked bag unless they are shipping their worldly goods over. In this case I have no problem with this charge as in my mind your ticket is for what you need to bring, not to corrier over goods to another country for what ever reason.


I often do not even try to bring any checked bags, especially when I go to asia I bring the bare minimum amount of clothing and just get it laundered over there for next to nothing (I like to get it laundered before I leave, makes packing much quicker and it is nice to when I get home I have clean clothes right away)
 
boeing773W
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:15 pm

It is so sad to see what American airlines are doing. I understand that the American market is competitive and airlines are really struggling but European carriers for example allow you 2 free bags of checked in luggage on routes to and from North America and some destinations in South America. Service, food and IFE are generally better too and planes are overall newer. I won't even comment on Gulf airlines or some major Asian airlines.

Given the choice between say, BA, LH, AF, LX, EK, QR, CX, SQ (too name a few) and an American carrier, I just don't see why anyone would choose to fly on the latter. But maybe I just don't fly American carriers enough to appreciate the positive things about them.
 
sirloin
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:21 pm

My question to all of those who say that they don't feel they should be subsidizing those of us who check bags would be the following: assuming it is really you who is subsidizing free bags, you did it for decades without complaint, so why is it a problem now? None of you would have said anything if fees for the first bag had never been discussed, but since they were, all of a sudden it's a problem?

Also consider the effects that a refusal to check bags has. It ties up security lines while those with 2 full-sized carry-ons (which certainly don't meet the 1 carry-on, 1 personal item requirement) have to sort through everything, only to be followed by those of us who take a grand total of 5 seconds to sort our meager amount of carry-on items in preparation for being screened. It's those who refuse to check bags that slow down boarding processes trying to get all of their stuff situated while those of us who checked our bags can easily just plop ourselves into our seats and be good to go. Lastly, it's those who refuse to check bags that force those who already did to check even more because all of the overhead bin space is completely gone.

I have nothing against the businessmen and businesswomen of the world who are the self-proclaimed kings and queens of carry-ons as their willingness or ability to pay the high fares keep the airlines going. I'm just saying that each type of passenger makes some sort of sacrifice for the other, and with these baggage fees, each type likely subsidizes the other in some fashion. I'm personally in favor of simply raising fares because you know what? Everybody, from the high rollers to the once-a-year vacationers, shares the burden, and it seems more ethical to me to sell your product at a price that can actually make you money instead of short-selling it and then nickel-and-diming people to make up the cost. It just seems silly.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:44 pm

As I've said before, the airlines are all but begging congress to start passing legislation banning this practice. It already happened with ground delays. Now it is going to happen with baggage fees.
-Doc Lightning-

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UAL777UK
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:56 pm

Unless I am going to the middle of the jungle, in which case I would not carry a lot anyway I just dont get why people need to check in a second bag anyway, especially if its clothes. Too many people travel with so much junk in their baggage it just staggers me when I check in some time and see what people think they can get away with. Jeez its 2012, ever heard of a washing machine? And please dont get me started on the size of some passengers carry on luggage!

I say UA, DL should charge these fees, mark my words others will follow.

Rant over.
 
HPRamper
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting trav110 (Reply 11):
Just calculated it on Fedex, to get a 50 lb suitcase from NYC to LHR the fastest option would be leaving Friday and arriving Monday, and that's $1544. Not even a same day option available.

The same-day service is generally always an option - you just have to go through different channels to obtain it. It is not offered on the website nor at most locations. It is handled generally via third party contract and will probably cost twice what the overnight price would be, if not much more.

Quoting par13del (Reply 15):
FedEx, DHL and others should apply to the airports to obtain space close to the airline counters like the guys who shrink wrap your bags, I'm certain with the added volume these companies can beat the airline prices, especially since they are flying older more gas guzziling a/c, flying on their own schedule, and charging premiums prices to companies who want products delivered overnight. So just as the same a/c has a first class and Y, each flight would be carrying priority bags / packages as well as those that were given to them two days earlier.

For domestic shipping, FX would still cost more than the airlines are charging, unless the passenger is ok with their luggage arriving three or more days after they do. Internationally customs would be an issue and could potentially hold up luggage as well, plus they would be giving a deep discount which I don't see anyone doing. FX, UPS and DHL already carry luggage for the airlines, items that were misrouted or that missed a flight. It's a very normal occurrence for these companies to be the ones to deliver someone's late luggage to their house and I'm sure the airlines pay a pretty penny for them to do so.

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 26):
To fedex a 50lb package from Chicago to london is $525 USD and that will take 5 days, so 100 for real time delivery is not too bad in comparision.

If you ship something priority overnight on Fedex, it will not take 5 days unless it's over a weekend and customs REALLY holds things up, especially on a one-stop flight like ORD-STN.
 
cmf
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
Some international fares are incredibly low. You can fly from LAX to SYD for as little as 205.00 each way. IAH to LHR for 175.00 each way. A big problem for airlines is that some countries and/or overseas airports charge HUGE taxes or fees. Australia is almost $500.00 (yes, regardless of the fare charged by the airlines) and Great Britain is almost as much. So, on a 400.00 fare, the cost of the ticket is pushed to almost $1000.00 with additional taxes and fees. Airlines are not making huge amounts of money on most fares, but the public doesn't realize, or care. They just think they're getting ripped off.

100 USD for a 23 kg bag is a rip off when they sell a ticked covering a passenger weighting somewhere between 40 and 100+ kg plus one bag at 23kg + a lot more space and structure for 205 USD.

Your use of taxes is irrelevant in this discussion.

Quoting kalvado (Reply 13):
with guaranteed delivery to the door and money back in case of 10 minutes delay.
Once airlines have anything remotely similar in CoC, then comparison would become valid.

I think very few people are prepared to pay 14 times as much for those extras.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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Tugger
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
Why is it a ripoff to charge for a 2nd bag? I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground? Your bag adds weight, that weight makes the plane heavier, which means more fuel has to be burned to get from point A to point B. If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me. If you don't want to pay it, learn to travel with less stuff.

Your example is erroneous. Luggage does not require safety equipment and personal care (of some level), it does not require a seat and entertainment and food, it does not require emergency equipment, the list goes on. If you could move passengers the same way as luggage (not that modern air travel isn't trying to get there) it might work but it doesn't.

Quoting sirloin (Reply 28):
My question to all of those who say that they don't feel they should be subsidizing those of us who check bags would be the following: assuming it is really you who is subsidizing free bags, you did it for decades without complaint, so why is it a problem now? None of you would have said anything if fees for the first bag had never been discussed, but since they were, all of a sudden it's a problem?

Actually it has now become a fact that it is those with bag fees that are subsidizing the other passengers. And those "others" those that don't pay a fee don't want to lose that subsidy....

Tugg
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AWACSooner
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting nethkt (Reply 23):
That's because you people carry everything you can, more than what you really needed.
Solution? easy, pack what is really needed!!

So what am I going to do when my wife and I have to pack luggage because we are moving from the US to Germany in January? I guess that people leaving for extended trips or moving should only pack one small suitcase too?
 
AWACSooner
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 33):
Actually it has now become a fact that it is those with bag fees that are subsidizing the other passengers. And those "others" those that don't pay a fee don't want to lose that subsidy....

THIS!!!

Basically, this is the shining example of the airlines having a knee-jerk reaction because they couldn't manage their businesses correctly for so long...and now we're paying for it. Frankly, we should let the capitalist system work and let the whole lot go under...Chapter 11 be damned!
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 34):
So what am I going to do when my wife and I have to pack luggage because we are moving from the US to Germany in January? I guess that people leaving for extended trips or moving should only pack one small suitcase too?

No one is forcing you to do anything. If you dont want to pay the price, dont pack the bag.

Besides, if your moving to Germany for anything work related, wont the cost be covered by your job?
It is what it is...
 
imag
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:51 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 30):
Unless I am going to the middle of the jungle, in which case I would not carry a lot anyway I just dont get why people need to check in a second bag anyway, especially if its clothes. Too many people travel with so much junk in their baggage it just staggers me when I check in some time and see what people think they can get away with. Jeez its 2012, ever heard of a washing machine? And please dont get me started on the size of some passengers carry on luggage!

But what about the coming back part? I always fly with minimal luggage to the US, wash stuff on the go, but generally bring stuff back. Not high value stuff, but I love things like grits, Thanksgiving handwashes, American Eagle...all the unique stuff. Suddenly from having a free second bag not so long ago, to paying $100, it makes things not so cheap anymore. So I'll just cut back my shopping. That and start carrying a full hand luggage, rather than the small backpack with just the essentials.

But hey, it's business, I'm sure it won't be long until everyone is charging $100 and more. But I'm also free to take my business elsewhere and generally avoid United.
 
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ODwyerPW
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 7):
Therein lies a big part of their problem. I'm over simplifying, I know, but they have been under pricing themselves for so long, they've deminished the percieved value of the product.

Very simply put!

We travel Mexico to New York serveral times a year, often staying in New York for upwards of 6 to 8 weeks. We used to drive it. The rational was we were able to visit friends and family along the way and when we arrived, we had our car for the entire duration, not relying on relatives (who absolutely objected to us renting a car for such an extended period). Furthermore, we really enjoyed those trips (5 to 6 days each way). Expensive, yeah.

However, as we get older (we are only 40, but still), we dont drive as fast, as long and prefer nicer meals and lodging. We have priced ourselves out of driving. It is too expensive.

Now we fly. We bus it from Guaymas, Sonora, Mexico to Tucson AZ. Then fly Tucson AZ to Albany NY. The return is the reverse. Sometimes, we will drive our car from Guaymas to Tucson and leave it in remote parking (yeah that costs too) at the airport. Lets us do a little shopping and errands in Tucson before returning to Guaymas. We might even break up the trip by staying in a hotel after the flight...and completing the drive the next day. Expensive, yeah.

Point is, travel is expensive... my wife and I have excepted that when we go Mexico to NewYork it is going to cost $1200 and 2 to 3 days with the bus/drive/fly combo. Or it is going to cost $2000 and 10 to 12 days with the all drive combo. Flying wins out, every time. We take the money saved and put it in an envelope for my inlaws so that they can buy something nice for the house in exchange for their hospitality.

7 Years ago, we stopped expecting to find $200 X 2 = $400. It's not sustainable for the airlines and doesn't cover the cost of moving two people and 3 to 4 bags of their goods across the continental us. Want to save money on travel...buy local...carpool to work...and live within 50 miles of relatives. Otherwise, pay up.
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Rdh3e
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 33):
Actually it has now become a fact that it is those with bag fees that are subsidizing the other passengers. And those "others" those that don't pay a fee don't want to lose that subsidy....

Tugg

I've already posted this once, but bags as a business lose money. Only 30% of bags are even charged a baggage fee, so no baggage fees are not subsidizing anything, they're not even paying for the infrastructure it takes to manage checked luggage.
 
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):
No one is forcing you to do anything. If you dont want to pay the price, dont pack the bag.

Besides, if your moving to Germany for anything work related, wont the cost be covered by your job?

yes he will fill it out on his travel voucher (though many airlines don't charge those on official orders), because if he is moving to Geilenkirchen for NATO AWACS the gov't covers all costs on the flights to BRU (the normal airport of choice unless you have animals (then it is FRA).

This just matches the Delta fee already in place.
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UAL777UK
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting imag (Reply 37):
But what about the coming back part? I always fly with minimal luggage to the US, wash stuff on the go, but generally bring stuff back. Not high value stuff, but I love things like grits, Thanksgiving handwashes, American Eagle...all the unique stuff. Suddenly from having a free second bag not so long ago, to paying $100, it makes things not so cheap anymore. So I'll just cut back my shopping. That and start carrying a full hand luggage, rather than the small backpack with just the essentials.

But hey, it's business, I'm sure it won't be long until everyone is charging $100 and more. But I'm also free to take my business elsewhere and generally avoid United.

Hey, find me a Brit that in the past has not taken an extra bag and stuffed it full of clothes etc in the past and thown it all in the hold..........but those days of oh so sheap stuff, cheaper oil etc have gone and the current economics dictate that airlines will do this. UA I am sure will probably look at this to try and encourage people not to bring that extra bag and not charge as opposed to wanting to get their hands on the dosh but if they do, so be it. As i said others will follow and as you say, you have a choice you can fly with someone else anyway.
 
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 35):
Quoting tugger (Reply 33):
Actually it has now become a fact that it is those with bag fees that are subsidizing the other passengers. And those "others" those that don't pay a fee don't want to lose that subsidy....

THIS!!!

Basically, this is the shining example of the airlines having a knee-jerk reaction because they couldn't manage their businesses correctly for so long...and now we're paying for it. Frankly, we should let the capitalist system work and let the whole lot go under...Chapter 11 be damned!

Could not agree more! Let's remember, just another small step on the way to "Air Amtrak"!

For what it is worth, it will help destroy the air/sea business from the U.S. to the Baltic and Mediterranean cruises in the summer months. If one travels, for e.g., on a 12 night Med cruise, tough to get away with just a carry-on, no less one bag alone. Air/sea from the U.S. to Europe is way off this year due to the cost of the air fares. Now with $100 2nd bag baggage fees, that will only further serve to decrease that business.

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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:18 pm

UA elites and *A Gold probably get the 2nd bag free.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
They could always raise them if they're having trouble making money.

Passengers, particularly the non-elites (aka Kettles) book on price. Fares are dictated by market forces and the fares are barely high enough to be profitable on average. Most airline CEOs will tell you that they do not set the fares. Airlines are so commoditized that for most, the economy experience is largely the same and airlines just set whatever fare is needed to keep the planes full. Expanded networks and refined algorithms are able to predict demand and price sensitivity better than ever so the airlines have a good idea of how many seats in each bucket at whatever fare keeps the planes full. The goal is to limit the number of unprofitable passengers and a la carte fees reduce those numbers. Elites get perks and the Kettles pay fees to get back some on those deeply discounted fares.
 
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 15):
I would not be shocked to know that some governments actually pay the airlines a fee for "collecting their taxes"

they do here in BZE. It is a common practice, especially in smaller countries.
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irelayer
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:32 pm

The "second bag" fee for international just seems like gouging unprepared travelers. The point is they can get away with it, just like Spirit can get away with selling you a 9 dollar fare and then charging you 40 bucks for your carry on.

The unfortunate part is it's sort of a bait and switch. I pay UA $1,000 dollars for a trip to Europe just for the privilege of getting to the airport and finding out that I owe even more money. A la carte pricing is kind of stupid for something like air travel. For me, I'd want to pay everything up front and not have to worry constantly. Then you have air travel booking sites that let you sort by lowest price...

The solution? I think the closest we can get is to offer the a la carte pricing but do it up front, at the time of booking. Yes you don't know if you will be checking bags or not 3 months or more in advance. BUT you do know that you would pay $25 for unlimited bag checkin 3 months in advance. And you'll pay $20 for an "upgraded" meal. And you'll pay $20 for a nice amenity kit with a neck pillow, headphones, etc. Point is, compared to the initial price shock ($1,000) the "add-on" options don't seem to bad, relatively speaking. Whereas at the airport that initial price shock has been paid off, it's a sunk cost already, and anything extra seems like a huge horrible inconvenience.

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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:36 pm

I have to say that those who think this practice is OK, or "good" or "about time", because many people carry "so much junk", should really think twice before stating something like that.

Most international pax coming to the USA (and then leaving) go back to their countries with lots of purchases that they make while here in the USA (is an economic benefit for the USA). These are people who are the majority of foreing visitors and turists to the USA. We can also include those traveling from here to visit family overseas, and usually they travel once a year and take as much gifts as possible.... these are the BULK of all international travel from the USA. We are not talking about the business traveler who get their tickets paid for by their company. We are not even talking about those people like many of us here, who love to fly and try to find a way to get in an airplane as often as possible. YES, for people like us, it doesn't really matter, but for the GREAT majority of people that travel internationally from the USA, this type of charge makes a difference.

What people who are defending USA airlines for making these type of charges don't you realize, is that airlines don't have to depend on bag fees to be profitable. There are plenty of international airlines that don't have such huge charges and are always profitable. For example, most (if not all) airlines from latin America, allow 2 bags FREE. You have LAN, AVIANCA, COPA, TACA, etc, that are profitable and still allow 2 free bags. Those airlines are only expanding and people are choosing them instead of AA, DL, UA or US when travelling to/from the USA to Latin America.

Also remember too that countries like Brazil, have a 70 pound, 2 bags free policy to any airline that travels to their country, so to Brazil, UA, AA and DL have to allow 2 free bags of 70 pounds no matter what. So take apart Brazil, and the market in latin america is growing more for Latin carriers than USA carriers, simply because the bulk of pax are not happy paying for tickets and then having to find out they have to pay an extra bag. So it probably will be similar when flying to other destinations in due time. In all honesty, when flying US airlines internationally, their levels of pax comfort is still below other options and that is why other airlines are booming while US airlines are struggling .

I just think this is not the best way to get customers and keep them....can they learn anything from Southwest? Wait till they start flying internationally...
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AWACSooner
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:37 pm

This is the equivalent of throwing the frog into boiling water vs. slow boiling the frog...
 
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 16):
Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
I find $100 to be a rip-off considering they're already ripping me off with the fuel surcharge on top of the fare which includes fuel costs but i think pax are learning to pack lighter as a result of these baggage fees.

Why is it a ripoff to charge for a 2nd bag? I never bring a 2nd bag with me on any flight, so why should my ticket price cover the cost of lifting your 50 lb suitcase off the ground? Your bag adds weight, that weight makes the plane heavier, which means more fuel has to be burned to get from point A to point B. If it already costs $2000 to move a 200 lb person, $100 for an extra 50 lb (in addition to how ever much carry-on and your first bag) does not seem at all unreasonable to me. If you don't want to pay it, learn to travel with less stuff.

But what if it's a necessity to travel with more stuff?

Quoting nethkt (Reply 23):
That's because you people carry everything you can, more than what you really needed.
Solution? easy, pack what is really needed!!
Reuse a few sweaters and limit yourself to maximum of two fancy outerwear when travel to colder climate.

I'd rather pack more and not need it than pack little and need more. I remember when I went to Europe in 2005. We were told to bring 1 bag (which in the end was a problem when other brought 2 bags) and I had to stuff it. The only day I had to do laundry (which I had mentioned over and over since I joined the tour group) I couldn't go because I was underage and no adults in my group wanted to get out of the hotel. Do you have any idea on what it's like to reuse underwear? I didn't mind the shirts or the pants since it was rather cool and I bare sweat. Sometimes, packing just what is needed is not practical.

To put it into an airline's perspective, airlines don't fuel their planes only on what is really needed. They also take into account delays and auxiliary fuel for a diversion, and even then pilots are known to ask for a bit more.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
As I've said before, the airlines are all but begging congress to start passing legislation banning this practice. It already happened with ground delays. Now it is going to happen with baggage fees.

I know it's not the place, but Congress (especially this one) won't act on this. Ground delays were one thing because it was out of customer's hands whether an airplane stayed on tarmac for hours without providing its passengers with basics (and even then, the flight should be cancelled and passengers taken off). However, they'll hinge on the excuse of the free market and that you are free to select the airline of your choice. For instance, United is charging $100 for your second bag to FRA? Find another airline that will charge less.
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RE: United Ups The Baggage War: $100 For 2nd Bag Intl

Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:39 pm

Now we know what the cargo uplift of widebodies is for. The oh so profitable 2nd international bag.  

For myself, I wouldn't be happy. But as a cheap flyer, airlines have to figure out some way to get money out of me...

For business, I'm a different customer. But then again, its not my money.  
Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 12):
This charge is for the second bag--not the first. Why is it so ridiculous to charge for the second piece???

We are in agreement.

Quoting jmbweeboy (Reply 42):
For what it is worth, it will help destroy the air/sea business from the U.S. to the Baltic and Mediterranean cruises in the summer months. If one travels, for e.g., on a 12 night Med cruise, tough to get away with just a carry-on, no less one bag alone

How will it destroy the cruise business for $200 or $400 per couple/family? (One or two bags, fee for each way.)

Articles I've found indicate the cruise industry is growing, but I'll reply as if the Baltic/Mediterranean industry is impacted.

Quoting jmbweeboy (Reply 42):
Air/sea from the U.S. to Europe is way off this year due to the cost of the air fares.

I'm certain there are *many* other factors having a bigger impact than airfares:
1. Weak dollar
2. Costa Concordia in the media
3. Film of Greek riots on TV has certainly cut interest in Mediteranian cruises.
4. The persistant economic malase.
5. New competition (The cruise industry is growing quickly in Asia, Dubai, and other new locations.)

Airlines are not making money. Like it or not a huge part of the airfare goes to fuel and oil at above $75/bbl is tough for airlines to deal with if they have newer equipment. This is one way to try and make more revenue. Not a big deal.

Greece is (was?) 17% of the European cruise market. Is their economic situation effecting booking? Note, the way the numbers are done for this article, I think they are so trailing, but if correct, indicate growth!
http://www.maritime-executive.com/pr...despite-difficult-economic-climate


The cruise industry always needs new customers and the Costa Concordia has impacted sales:
http://cruisefever.net/0531-cruise-i...ing-from-costa-concordia-accident/

Besides, Nude cruising is becoming more popular.  http://www.eturbonews.com/29709/nake...-cruising-enjoying-vigorous-growth

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