cloudboy
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Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:29 pm

Does anyone know what kind of seating configuration Delta will have on their 739's? Some of these will be replacing 757s, will they be keeping the increased first class section or continue with the 4 rows of first as on other 737s?
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Thread starter):
Does anyone know what kind of seating configuration Delta will have on their 739's? Some of these will be replacing 757s, will they be keeping the increased first class section or continue with the 4 rows of first as on other 737s?

UA has five rows of F on their 739ERs; I presume DL would do the same.
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b727fa
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:20 pm

What I know I'm going to hate is boarding through 1L and that makes predeparture drinks and coats a nightmare with that many pax. Perhaps the best feature of the 757 is that blessed 2L door...alas.
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spiritair97
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 2):

That is my favorite part of the 757. For some reason, that one extra door makes the plane so much nicer looking. Also, seeing a narrowbody with a jetway hooked up to a second door s very cool to me.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:52 pm

I'd expect about 20F 24Y+ and 140Y or something very close to that.

The question is if there will be a closet and lavatory between F and Y. CO's configuration is very nice with the mid cabin lav as it makes the airplane feel much more like a 757 and eliminates Y traffic in F during the flight. However, I would not be surprised if DL sticks 3 lavs in the back.
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BDL757
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 2):
What I know I'm going to hate is boarding through 1L and that makes predeparture drinks and coats a nightmare with that many pax. Perhaps the best feature of the 757 is that blessed 2L door...alas.

Agreed! The 757 just seems to board so much quicker and more relaxed; at least from a GA's point of view.
 
cschleic
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
Also, seeing a narrowbody with a jetway hooked up to a second door s very cool to me.

  
 
jc2354
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:38 pm

I think the 2L door, on a narrow body, spoiled all of us. I looked at the Boeing site for the 737-900, and couldn't find an answer.

Could, would, or does, Boeing offer the option of moving the 1L door further down the fuselage towards the wing? No need to move the 1R door. That would add the convenience of near-mid cabin boarding. First class would remain somewhat quiet without all the congestion and confusion. Cabin capacity wouldn't change. There shouldn't be any structural integrity issue.

Would any airline order it, if it was an available?

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roseflyer
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 7):

Could, would, or does, Boeing offer the option of moving the 1L door further down the fuselage towards the wing? No need to move the 1R door. That would add the convenience of near-mid cabin boarding. First class would remain somewhat quiet without all the congestion and confusion. Cabin capacity wouldn't change. There shouldn't be any structural integrity issue.

I don't see that as an option at all. It has been since the 727-100 and 747-100/200 when Boeing designed non symmetric exit door configurations for a passenger jet.

When it comes to what airlines want, they prefer lower weight rather than boarding convenience. The 737-900ER could have had a full size door ahead of the wing, but it is much lighter to have the class C exit hatch behind the wing.
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:48 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 8):
but it is much lighter to have the class C exit hatch behind the wing.

And I'm guessing DL will forgo those exits and have them plugged like CO did to save weight.
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Polot
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 7):
Could, would, or does, Boeing offer the option of moving the 1L door further down the fuselage towards the wing? No need to move the 1R door. That would add the convenience of near-mid cabin boarding. First class would remain somewhat quiet without all the congestion and confusion. Cabin capacity wouldn't change. There shouldn't be any structural integrity issue.

That might be against regulations. There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes (the nose of the 747 is grandfathered in) but I'm not sure if only a door on 1 side would cut it, or if they need to include doors on both sides of the fuselage in case one is blocked.
 
skymiler
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:38 am

Without the beloved L2 door boarding will be slower, but will the turn-around times be increased to compensate?

It appears to me that they are cut to the practical minimum now (and totally understandable in that the aircraft needs to be full and in the air not on the ground) but just observe the slow grinding process at an airport that has fairly high VTR traffic. BUF in winter comes to mind -- with all the coats, carry-ons and the straggling unloading I have rarely ever seen DL turn their MD80's in 40 minutes without high stress!

It would seem to mt that 50 min would be required for the 739's.
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skymiler
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:54 am

Without the the beloved L2 door the boarding will be much slower, but will turnaround times be increased to compensate?

Having watched many times what happens at gates with high VTR traffic which tend to be slow unloading and loading I think that some of times allocated are on the low side (understanding that the aircraft needs to be full and in in the air). BUF in winter is a good example -- DL struggles to get the MD80's turned in 40 min due to the mess of carry on bags, coats, etc, even with the gentle encouragement of gate agents and on-board F/A's.

It seems that at least 50 min will need to be allocated for the 739
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 10):
That might be against regulations. There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes (the nose of the 747 is grandfathered in) but I'm not sure if only a door on 1 side would cut it, or if they need to include doors on both sides of the fuselage in case one is blocked.

Interesting. I'm curious then how the CRJ series aircraft get away with no aft exit. Pax at the rear of that airplane (a long ways from an exit on the 900 and 1000) have only an exit forward, no way out aft.
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 10):
That might be against regulations. There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes (the nose of the 747 is grandfathered in) but I'm not sure if only a door on 1 side would cut it, or if they need to include doors on both sides of the fuselage in case one is blocked.

What about the CRJ/ERJ series?
 
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 13):
Interesting. I'm curious then how the CRJ series aircraft get away with no aft exit. Pax at the rear of that airplane (a long ways from an exit on the 900 and 1000) have only an exit forward, no way out aft.

Apparently the new rules came in after the CRJ-100 was designed... And just like on the 737 (which I heard wouldn't pass some new rules) the other CRJs are "grandfathered" in. The CRJ/ERJ design would apparently not pass inspectors today.
 
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 15):
Apparently the new rules came in after the CRJ-100 was designed... And just like on the 737 (which I heard wouldn't pass some new rules) the other CRJs are "grandfathered" in. The CRJ/ERJ design would apparently not pass inspectors today.

Wow. That's fascinating. So even new derivatives of the aircraft are grandfathered? I assume it's because they don't certify them as a new type entirely?
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bohica
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 16):
So even new derivatives of the aircraft are grandfathered?

Yes. The most recent example is the 747-8. New rules say there must be exits forward and aft of the passengers. The 748 was grandfathered due to having exits only aft of passengers in the nose section.
 
laca773
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 15):

Apparently the new rules came in after the CRJ-100 was designed... And just like on the 737 (which I heard wouldn't pass some new rules) the other CRJs are "grandfathered" in. The CRJ/ERJ design would apparently not pass inspectors today.

That's very interesting as I too wondered about CR9/CRK having an optional rear door, albeit on the left side only. I don't think what you're saying is accurate since the Fokker 100s (F100 or 100) had an optional rear door in which several airlines opted for it, while it appears the majority did not.

The second door would be a very interesting and good option on a super strech, like the 739/739ER. As we all know, Airbus has placed two large emergency exit doors in front and behind the wing versus having two large forward and rear doors and the pop up window exits over the wing.
I believe 2L is not used on the A321 because of the close proximity to the engine/wing and if they are going to have utilize two doors which is done often in the EU, they always go with the forward and rear doors (jetway @ 1L and a stairway at 4L).

To keep things more efficient and the stress level low, would the optimal time to turn a 739/739ER be 60 minutes for airlines who are very efficient in turning planes around?
 
roseflyer
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 10):
That might be against regulations. There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes (the nose of the 747 is grandfathered in) but I'm not sure if only a door on 1 side would cut it, or if they need to include doors on both sides of the fuselage in case one is blocked.

Which FAR is that? I only know of the FARs 121.291 and appendix J that dictate exit in 90 seconds (with all the associated requirements), flight attendant stationed at all floor level doors, 50 seats per flight attendant, etc. I’ve never seen one that dictates location of exits other than the 90 second requirement. I’d wonder how the A380 got by that FAR since there is no exit at the front or rear of the upper deck.

Quoting skymiler (Reply 11):
Without the beloved L2 door boarding will be slower, but will the turn-around times be increased to compensate?

It might slow it down by a minute or two, but not much more than that. The 757 economy cabin is about 160 seats. The 739 is anticipated to be about 180 seats. It’s an additional 20 seats. Each airline calculates how long it actually takes to board an airplane. If I remember correctly the last time I saw the numbers for an airline, boarding times for 120 seats were 10 minutes, 150 seats 12 minutes, and 180 seat 14 minutes. Numbers were adjusted for winter vs summer and load factor.
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Rdh3e
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Thread starter):
Does anyone know what kind of seating configuration Delta will have on their 739's? Some of these will be replacing 757s, will they be keeping the increased first class section or continue with the 4 rows of first as on other 737s?

Forgive me but which 757's would they be replacing. I see they currently have 8 different configurations of -200's and also they have the -300's. With the -200's ranging from 166 (biz elite) to 184 seats and the -300's coming in at 224 seats.
 
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 20):
Forgive me but which 757's would they be replacing. I see they currently have 8 different configurations of -200's and also they have the -300's. With the -200's ranging from 166 (biz elite) to 184 seats and the -300's coming in at 224 seats.

The PMNW "5500" series 752s and some of DL's original 752s which date from the late 80s are likely the first to go.

This thread should add some detail:

DL To Acquire Used 757s? (by bigbird Jun 14 2012 in Civil Aviation)#1
 
Rdh3e
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
I'd expect about 20F 24Y+ and 140Y or something very close to that.
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 19):
It might slow it down by a minute or two, but not much more than that.

I'd bet they will use the same boarding times as they do for the 184 seat 752's. Since F doesn't board at the same time as Y anyways there really doesn't need to be any incremental time added just because F is the same direction out the door as Y. So I'm with you on the maybe 1-2 minutes, but quite possibly no extra time.
 
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 2):
Perhaps the best feature of the 757 is that blessed 2L door...alas.

Except when they board/deplane from 1L. This happens to me occasionally in ATL and MSP.
 
lucce
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
I believe 2L is not used on the A321 because of the close proximity to the engine/wing and if they are going to have utilize two doors which is done often in the EU, they always go with the forward and rear doors (jetway @ 1L and a stairway at 4L).

LH uses it sometimes in FRA. They have gates with dual air bridges (1L and 2L). I have de-boarded through 2L door only once though and that was in the old configuration but even the current one has plenty of room inside in front of that door versus other door areas.
 
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 10):
There needs to be doors in both directions for evacuation purposes

MD-80/MD-90 have only 1 rear door on the left side. Granted, they have the tail exit as well, but it's not across from the galley door.
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skymiler
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:27 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 22):
Since F doesn't board at the same time as Y anyways there really doesn't need to be any incremental time added just because F is the same direction out the door as Y.


In the last many flights I have been on the gate agents, understandably under pressure, tend to call the next wave hot on the heels of F, if not actually with them, which make for a difficult situation for the F/A's trying to do a ground service in F!. One flight to SJU (a few days ago) there was no call at all -- just a "board now" -- and the results spoke for themselves!  
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cloudboy
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Keep in mind that you don't have to board at the first time your zone is called. In many cases F passengers will end up boarding later - either because they cut it close coming from the lounge, or because they are waiting to have their upgrade cleared. In any case, I think the benefit of 2L as a loading door is also as much not interfering with the crew around the front galley and cockpit area. Door 2L gives more room for passengers to maneuver with their bags and not get in the way.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta's 737-900 Seating Configuration

Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:43 am

MINIMUM turns for domestic flights are as follows (can be less but operationally this is the minimum to get "everything done"):

25 Minutes
CR2
145

30 Minutes
CR7/9
170/175

35 Minutes
DC9
319

40 Minutes
73G/738
320
88/90

50 Minutes
752

60 Minutes
753
763

70 Minutes
764
332/333
777
744

I can see the 739 falling with the 757 for minimum turn purposes.

[Edited 2012-06-16 21:12:34]

[Edited 2012-06-16 21:13:49]
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