aviacsa55
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Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:26 am

I was looking up Wikipedia recently and I noticed that Air Canada is located at National terminals instead of the usual international terminals in the U.S. airports.

Examples of AC national terminal locations:
*ORD - Located at Terminal/Concourse 2E, instead of 5E
*CLT - Located a Concourse A, instead of D
*IAH - Located at Terminal A, instead of D

How come Air Canada's operations are located in U.S./National/Domestic terminals instead of the worldwide/international terminals, if it is a Canadian carrier, not a U.S. carrier? Could it be, partially, a U.S. carrier, to be located with its code-share partner, pre-clear customs, etc.? explain.
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:32 am

Quoting aviacsa55 (Thread starter):
pre-clear customs

That one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_border_preclearance
Wikipedia knows all.

Quote:
The following Canadian airports operate U.S. preclearance facilities:

Calgary International Airport
Edmonton International Airport
Halifax Stanfield International Airport
Montréal-Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport
Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport
Toronto Pearson International Airport
Vancouver International Airport
Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport
 
flyingalex
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:54 am

As mentioned in the post above, flights from certain Canadian airports can pre-clear US immigration and customs in Canada, which means they effectively become domestic flights when they arrive in the US.

Air Canada makes extensive use of these facitilies to operate commuter aircraft to a sizeable number of smaller US airports (places like BDL, SYR, RIC, PVD, MDT, PWM, GRR and many more), giving them a direct link to the rest of the world via Canada. For connecting customers, clearing US immigration at YYZ is a breeze compared to fighting the masses at one of the major US hubs. The process is so easy that Air Canada has become my preferred carrier when I go to the US.
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 2):
The process is so easy that Air Canada has become my preferred carrier when I go to the US.

Haven't done it for wa while, does one still need to go through Canadian immigration first and after that to the US counter?
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flyingalex
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:36 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
Haven't done it for wa while, does one still need to go through Canadian immigration first and after that to the US counter?

No, at Toronto you now bypass Canadian immigration via a sterile corridor directly to the US counters. There is a baggage reclaim belt for US connections at which you pick up your bags, then you go to passport control with your checked baggage. After that comes US customs, then a belt on which you can drop your checked luggage again, and then a transfer security screening. From there you go straight into the US departures area.

It's the same as the procedure as when connecting at any US airport, with the exception that you are actually on Canadian soil for the time being. The big advantage is that only a small percentage of passengers on a given flight to YYZ will be connecting to the US, so the queues at transit pre-clearance are very short or non-existent. Last time I was there, I waited about 30 seconds to be seen by an immigration officer. By comparison, last time I arrived at JFK, it was a 60 minute wait just to get to the desk! My last US arrival, at SFO, was a little better, but I still had to queue for 25 minutes.
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Josh32121
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:06 pm

And strangely...AC moved to the new international terminal at ATL, creating a slightly less convenient arrival experience for most AC passengers since the international terminal has fewer and more distant ground transport options. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind that. I wonder whether it was voluntary on AC's part to move.
 
N766UA
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:31 pm

Because Canada is America's hat. Miami is more foreign than Toronto!  

But yeah it's mostly pre-clearance.
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JoePatroni
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 6):
Because Canada is America's hat. Miami is more foreign than Toronto!

According to this, not quite!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%2...by_international_passenger_traffic
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting JoePatroni (Reply 7):
According to this, not quite!

I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at. My point is that Toronto feels much more familiar and "American" than Miami to me.
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flyingalex
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at. My point is that Toronto feels much more familiar and "American" than Miami to me.

Which is how I understood it. I'm not sure what that comment's about either.
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JoePatroni
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at. My point is that Toronto feels much more familiar and "American" than Miami to me.

Sorry, I misinterpreted what you were saying. In that case, I agree with you!  
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N766UA
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting JoePatroni (Reply 10):
Sorry, I misinterpreted what you were saying. In that case, I agree with you!

Haha okay, glad we're in agreement!
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zrs70
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:48 pm

Truth is, there are many foreign carriers that depart from domestic US terminals (though they can only arrive in a terminal werner customs/immigration is available - with the exception of many AC and EI flights where pre-clearance exists).
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Viscount724
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 12):
Truth is, there are many foreign carriers that depart from domestic US terminals (though they can only arrive in a terminal werner customs/immigration is available - with the exception of many AC and EI flights where pre-clearance exists).

Not just AC and EI. Also all the U.S. carriers that operate transborder services from the 8 Canadian airports with pre-clearance services.

There are at least 9 other Canadian airports with transborder services but which lack pre-clearance. Passengers on those flights obviously have to clear U.S. formalities on arrival. I don't think AC operates any of those routes.

[Edited 2012-06-15 15:18:17]
 
connies4ever
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at. My point is that Toronto feels much more familiar and "American" than Miami to me.

Toronto IS the most American city in Canada. it is really much more plugged into the US economy than any other Canadian city. A good generation ago, I would have said Calgary had that "honour", but no more.

Just as to some, Vamcouver feels more like an Asian city than a Canadian one. Check out the Fairwinds Mall in Richmond, south of the airport. Much signage in Mandarin only.
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N766UA
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:09 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 14):
Toronto IS the most American city in Canada.

Haha I guess I didn't really go out on a limb with Toronto. How about Medicine Hat or St. Johns or some eskimo village out in the Yukon somewhere?

I guess my point is that Canada is right there, and it's, generally, entirely innocuous. To see a Canadian crew isn't quite the same as seeing a German or Russian or Chinese crew. Yeah, it's international but, come on, we're right next to each other.
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brilondon
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting JoePatroni (Reply 7):
Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
Quoting JoePatroni (Reply 7):
According to this, not quite!

I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at. My point is that Toronto feels much more familiar and "American" than Miami to me.

I have no idea what is the point of reply 7. I get the statement that Toronto has a more American feel then Miami, I don't think that the author of post 7 has grasped the idea of the statement that was made.
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connies4ever
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 15):
How about Medicine Hat or St. Johns or some eskimo village out in the Yukon somewhere?

Well, I'd say "The Hat" is a typical Canadian flatland/foothills-type city, kinda spread out for it's size, mostly into cattle, big steaks, and good Beer -- which automatically makes it more Canadian than American, b.t.w.

"Newfie John" isn't really a part of Canada, neither is the island of Newfoundland. Don't forget Newfoundland was an independent country until 1949, when it joined Canada. They have their own distinct identity, and I really recommend visiting. It's a blast there. almost every night. A little hard to understand the locals at times, though.
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yegbey01
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:41 pm

I wondered many times why AC operated out of the International terminal in BWI? makes no sense to me, as it is mostly deserted with very little amenities.
 
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 17):
"Newfie John" isn't really a part of Canada, neither is the island of Newfoundland. Don't forget Newfoundland was an independent country until 1949, when it joined Canada. They have their own distinct identity, and I really recommend visiting. It's a blast there. almost every night. A little hard to understand the locals at times, though.

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Viscount724
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 14):
Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at. My point is that Toronto feels much more familiar and "American" than Miami to me.

Toronto IS the most American city in Canada. it is really much more plugged into the US economy than any other Canadian city. A good generation ago, I would have said Calgary had that "honour", but no more.

To me, YYC still feels much more American than YYZ. Every time I visit YYZ it feels more and more like a foreign city due to the massive immigration in recent years, mostly from Asia but also large African communities from Somalia etc.

In proportion to the population, YYC also has a larger U.S.-born population. In the 2006 census, 4.4% of YYC residents were born in the U.S. compared to 1.8% in YYZ. When I lived in YYC in the late 1980s the U.S. Consulate there was one of their largest. Their website says the current staff is 80.

Some other comparative numbers for YYZ and YYC metro areas from the 2006 census (population data from the 2011 census has been released but not the demographic data). Numbers are percentages of the total population:

Immigrants (not born in Canada) - YYZ 46%, YYC 24%
Mother tongue not English or French - YYZ 45%, YYC 24%
Language spoken at home not English or French - YYZ 27%, YYC 13%
Visible minorities - YYZ 43%, YYC 22%
Asian - YYZ 31%, YYC 17%
Black - YYZ 7%, YYC 2%
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:35 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
To me, YYC still feels much more American than YYZ. Every time I visit YYZ it feels more and more like a foreign city due to the massive immigration in recent years, mostly from Asia but also large African communities from Somalia etc.

In proportion to the population, YYC also has a larger U.S.-born population. In the 2006 census, 4.4% of YYC residents were born in the U.S. compared to 1.8% in YYZ.

Indeed YYC has more of the feel like SLC or DEN in the U.S. and I think the same can be said for YEG as well. The bottom line is yes the demographics of immigrants and ethnicity might shift accordingly, but most U.S. and Canadian communities are VERY similar in culture and scope of population...what can i say; 50 states and 10 provinces along with associated territories of North America.

I for one wish AC would give YYZ-SLC another go now that DL pulled out of that one, and that DL would give YEG a single daily back to SLC rather than push all of it through MSP. I think if WS colaborated more with DL on code-shares, SLC would do better Canadian gateway and get back some of the old Western Airlines movement once had.

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 5):
And strangely...AC moved to the new international terminal at ATL, creating a slightly less convenient arrival experience for most AC passengers since the international terminal has fewer and more distant ground transport options. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind that. I wonder whether it was voluntary on AC's part to move.

I think AC didn't object to this since ATL is a Sky Team hub and AC is about as Star Alliance aligned as a carrier could get. I doubt you would see a similar move at places like ORD, EWR, WAD, DEN or SFO.
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greggariouspdx
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:36 am

I wonder what Eagle is doing with the ORD-Kitchner/Waterloo flights as far as clearance. Does Kitchner have Immigration facilities ?
 
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flylku
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:03 am

Timing of this is funny; I just passed through U.S. Customs immigration tonight at YUL on my way home to DCA on an AC flight.
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RP TPA
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:39 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
There are at least 9 other Canadian airports with transborder services but which lack pre-clearance. Passengers on those flights obviously have to clear U.S. formalities on arrival. I don't think AC operates any of those routes.
Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 22):
I wonder what Eagle is doing with the ORD-Kitchner/Waterloo flights as far as clearance. Does Kitchner have Immigration facilities ?

No, it doesnt. Those passengers would have had to clear immigrations upon arrival in Chicago.

Off the top of my head, here are some other routes that do not have pre-clearance (ie: immigrations is done upon arrival in the US):

YYT (St John's NL)-EWR
YQB (Quebec City)-EWR/ORD (and DTW?)
MSP
YQR (Regina)-MSP
YXE (Saskatoon)-MSP
YLW (Kelowna)-SEA
YYJ (Victoria)-SEA

[Edited 2012-06-16 04:40:43]

[Edited 2012-06-16 04:43:23]

[Edited 2012-06-16 04:44:57]

(obviously, MSP should be at the end of the YQT- line, but I can seem to change that)


[Edited 2012-06-16 04:46:41]
 
connies4ever
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:45 pm

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 22):
I wonder what Eagle is doing with the ORD-Kitchner/Waterloo flights as far as clearance. Does Kitchner have Immigration facilities ?

To my knowledge, no. I don't believe there is anywhere near the transborder traffic levels to the USA out of YKF. In fact I think the Eagle service, 2x daily, to ORD is the only international service out of YKF.

Other significant users are WS to YYC daily with a 737NG, and JV (Bearskin) 5x to YOW and daily to YUL with Metroliners.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:22 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 24):
YYT (St John's NL)-EWR
YQB (Quebec City)-EWR/ORD (and DTW?)
MSP
YQR (Regina)-MSP
YXE (Saskatoon)-MSP
YLW (Kelowna)-SEA
YYJ (Victoria)-SEA

YYJ & YQB are pushing to be th 11th and 12 Canadian airports to be equiped with U.S. pre-clearence facilities. There are other airports that want transporder flights even though they will never house a pre-clearence facility. Example (YQL) Lethbridge would love Delta (OO) to have an SLC flight.
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Airontario
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 24):
Quoting RP TPA (Reply 24):
YYT (St John's NL)-EWR
YQB (Quebec City)-EWR/ORD (and DTW?)
MSP
YQR (Regina)-MSP
YXE (Saskatoon)-MSP
YLW (Kelowna)-SEA
YYJ (Victoria)-SEA

You can add the following as well:
YYG-JFK
YQM-EWR
YXU-ORD

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 25):
To my knowledge, no. I don't believe there is anywhere near the transborder traffic levels to the USA out of YKF. In fact I think the Eagle service, 2x daily, to ORD is the only international service out of YKF.
.

There is the occasional winter charter to the Caribbean, operated by Sunwing I believe.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:18 pm

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 4):
The big advantage is that only a small percentage of passengers on a given flight to YYZ will be connecting to the US, so the queues at transit pre-clearance are very short or non-existent. Last time I was there, I waited about 30 seconds to be seen by an immigration officer.

The facilities are in place to make this transfer even easier. Baggage will soon no longer have to be claimed in YYZ to be pre-cleared to the US. They will be tagged, and held in a room during the transfer, and if US Customs doesn't want to see them, you will never have to even touch them. If Customs does, they will be brought up for inspection.

I am not sure when this process will start.

The reverse is also true, and even easier.

Arrive in YYZ from the US, bypass Canadian Customs/Immigration and Security, quick passport check at a transfer desk, then down to the International Departures area! Baggage as always is tagged right to destination and not handled by the passenger in YYZ.
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Viscount724
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting Airontario (Reply 27):
Quoting RP TPA (Reply 24):
YYT (St John's NL)-EWR
YQB (Quebec City)-EWR/ORD (and DTW?)
MSP
YQR (Regina)-MSP
YXE (Saskatoon)-MSP
YLW (Kelowna)-SEA
YYJ (Victoria)-SEA

You can add the following as well:
YYG-JFK
YQM-EWR
YXU-ORD

Also:
YQB-PHL (US Airways Express)
YKF-ORD (AA Eagle...started this week)
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BE77
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:50 am

Since the thread is already squaking 7500, I'll add another non pre clearnce regularly scheduled city pair of YWH and LKE.
Also multiple YTZ to US destinations witout preclearence.

Back to the thread...the preclearence is really, really helpful for everyone traveling 'Transborder' (which is probably the most common name for it). By having the preclearence, then the flights from the busier Canadian Airports can use any US airport, although I recall that there are a few limitations, such as the US airport must be capable of processing the inbound aircraft for customs probably in case there is an issue with pax that is discovered at any point before the plane reaches the gate in the US.
With a Nexus or GOES membership, the whole thing gets really simple, since there is no real lineup to get through.

It also means that the preclearence airports have three 'terminals' or sets of gates instead of just two...there is Domestic, International, and 'Transborder' or US gates. (well, YYZ has six, with both sets in each of T1 and T3.
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RP TPA
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:26 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 28):
The facilities are in place to make this transfer even easier. Baggage will soon no longer have to be claimed in YYZ to be pre-cleared to the US. They will be tagged, and held in a room during the transfer, and if US Customs doesn't want to see them, you will never have to even touch them. If Customs does, they will be brought up for inspection
.I am not sure when this process will start.

I spoke with someone in YYZ back in January (I work for AC, in the TPA cell center), and they were under the impression that this new process would be in effect by spring break. I had assumed they meant THIS year, but it might be 2013 at the rate they are going. From what I understand, the issue is that the immigrations/customs officials would naturally have the right to inspect the bag if they so desire. There seems to be some sort of delay in getting the bag up to the preclearance area in a timely fashion, based on some pilot programs. Not sure if this is the exact issue, as I'm getting second hand info at best. It works in YUL/YVR, so YYZ should have it figured out before long.
 
Airontario
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:49 pm

Quoting TPA" class="quote" target="_blank">RP TPA (Reply 31):
I spoke with someone in YYZ back in January (I work for AC, in the TPA cell center), and they were under the impression that this new process would be in effect by spring break. I had assumed they meant THIS year, but it might be 2013 at the rate they are going. From what I understand, the issue is that the immigrations/customs officials would naturally have the right to inspect the bag if they so desire. There seems to be some sort of delay in getting the bag up to the preclearance area in a timely fashion, based on some pilot programs. Not sure if this is the exact issue, as I'm getting second hand info at best. It works in YUL/YVR, so YYZ should have it figured out before long.

It was supposed to be up an running in May. A few days before the scheduled start date they announced they were pushing it back. No new date has been given.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why National Airports Terminals For Air Canada?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting BE77 (Reply 30):
Since the thread is already squaking 7500, I'll add another non pre clearnce regularly scheduled city pair of YWH and LKE.
Also multiple YTZ to US destinations witout preclearence.

Also YYJ-SFO (UA Express twice-daily).

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