CO764
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Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:53 pm

Hello,
I noticed on Flightradar24 that there are at least two Lufthansa 737-300's (D-ABEE, D-ABEN) that are operating Swiss flights (eg. LX 98K MAN-ZRH) today, and are seemingly temporarily based in Zurich.

Would anyone have any idea why those 737-300's are ZRH-based? I trust Swiss would not want to begin operating 20 year-old 737 Classics!

Thanks,
CO764
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PhilInBRN
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:02 pm

The two 737-300s are operated for Swiss on weekends to cope with the shortage of aircraft. The 737s operate mostly into Germany or AMS. On Saturday and Sunday there are several LX A320 that operate flights on behalf of Edelweiss so LX doesn't have enough own planes to operate their flights. I don't know if this wet-lease is intended to last just for a couple of weeks or for the entire summer. The same situation occured last year already.
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:34 pm

We've been getting the LH 733 for the Saturday afternoon ZRH flight for the past few weeks, it was the same last year. This year I've only seen DABEN so far.

Quoting CO764 (Thread starter):
Would anyone have any idea why those 737-300's are ZRH-based? I trust Swiss would not want to begin operating 20 year-old 737 Classics!

It's not as bad as you may think. While the overhead bins don't compare to the 32S the LH 737s are very well maintained and have recently gotten a new interior. They look fine on the inside and the average Joe wouldn't ever guess the age.

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
by188b
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:48 pm

A few years ago i flew LCY-ZRH-TXL on swiss, the ZRH-TXL flight was operated as a wet lease by LH , according to the cabin crew, they were Berlin based and it was a regular thing. This was also on a Saturday.
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
CO764
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 2):
It's not as bad as you may think. While the overhead bins don't compare to the 32S the LH 737s are very well maintained and have recently gotten a new interior. They look fine on the inside and the average Joe wouldn't ever guess the age.

Agreed but I meant in the long-run. However, I have to admit that the NEK interior is quite impressive.
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Viscount724
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:25 pm

I was booked on an LX flight ZRH-AMS at least 2 years ago and it was operated by a LH 733.
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:20 pm

LH has been operating 733's for LX in the weekends for many years now, nothing special.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
DALCE
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:08 am

Smart move I would say. Use the available equipment within the group. As long as the servicelevel is on par with LX it is fine. Optimizing the fleet-usage within the group is a first step in cost saving!
I have also seen a LH343 in ZRH a couple of years ago, subbing on the ZRH-BOS flights for a couple of days.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
jwhite9185
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:05 am

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 2):
It's not as bad as you may think. While the overhead bins don't compare to the 32S the LH 737s are very well maintained and have recently gotten a new interior. They look fine on the inside and the average Joe wouldn't ever guess the age.

I agree - i was on a LH 733 back in March and if i didn't know any better, id have said it was only a few years old. Certainly much better condition than the EI A320 i was on a few weeks later that was delivered in 2005.
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Stratofish
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:17 pm

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 8):
I agree - i was on a LH 733 back in March and if i didn't know any better, id have said it was only a few years old. Certainly much better condition than the EI A320 i was on a few weeks later that was delivered in 2005.

Are you sure you weren't sleep deprived or anything? Cannot speak about EI Busses but the antique LH Bobbys are a true disgrace. I always try to fly LX instead of LH if the flight is indicated to be operated by a 737 in order to avoid them.

Quoting DALCE (Reply 7):
Smart move I would say. Use the available equipment within the group. As long as the servicelevel is on par with LX it is fine. Optimizing the fleet-usage within the group is a first step in cost saving!

As a customer I'll be seriously pi**ed. A LH 733 is nowhere near an adequate substitution for a LX A32x.

Now that I stumbled across this thread I know what else to watch out for when booking flights, thank you!
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
Dufo
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 9):
As a customer I'll be seriously pi**ed. A LH 733 is nowhere near an adequate substitution for a LX A32x.

Seriously? You sound like someone who doesn't pay for tickets himself. Is there such a difference for a one hour flight?
I seriously think I just creamed my pants without any influence from any outside variables.
 
jwhite9185
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 9):
Are you sure you weren't sleep deprived or anything? Cannot speak about EI Busses but the antique LH Bobbys are a true disgrace. I always try to fly LX instead of LH if the flight is indicated to be operated by a 737 in order to avoid them.

Far from being a disgrace, as i said i was quite impressed with the particular one i went on (D-ABEC). Had quite a new cabin.
@mytripreport
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 9):
Are you sure you weren't sleep deprived or anything? Cannot speak about EI Busses but the antique LH Bobbys are a true disgrace.

Have you ever been on a flight on the New European Cabin of LH? They are great, the planes look like new. Actually I was a bit surprised to see such a huge investment into airplanes which will be gone soon.
 
LXA340
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 7):
I have also seen a LH343 in ZRH a couple of years ago, subbing on the ZRH-BOS flights for a couple of days.

I think this was done at the time because LX had a severe crew shortage and in order not to cancel some flights they wetleased a plane with crew from LH for some days. Supposedly this summer LX will use WK crews to operate some flights operated by an A333.
 
vfw614
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:07 pm

Lufthansa is also operating 733s on behalf of Austrian from VIE to FCO and DUS, so quite a bit of shuffling around capacity within the Lufthansa group.
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:44 pm

Shame, shame on you LX!
I would never put my feet on such old can of trash! I do not want to bet my life because they want to spare (ops, optimize).
Is that Swiss or Delta?
Unbelievable!
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Polot
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 15):
I would never put my feet on such old can of trash! I do not want to bet my life because they want to spare (ops, optimize).
Is that Swiss or Delta?
LX operates many A320s that are not that much newer than these 737s, don't assume because it is an A320 is it a young plane, especially in regards to the Euro airlines...

[Edited 2012-06-17 10:55:03]
 
ZRH
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 15):
Shame, shame on you LX!
I would never put my feet on such old can of trash! I do not want to bet my life because they want to spare (ops, optimize).
Is that Swiss or Delta?
Unbelievable!

C'mon thats ridiculous! These aircrafts from LH are perfectly maintained and probably much safer than newer ons from other airlines.
 
stylo777
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 16):
LX operates many A320s that are not that much newer than these 737s, don't assume because it is an A320 is it a young plane, especially in regards to the Euro airlines...

the 13 oldest A320 were build in 1995/96 (and used to fly for former Swissair...).
D-ABEN is built 1993.

So, now tell me if those two years really matter now?
Looking from another point, oldest LH A320 (D-AIPA) is from 1989, but very well maintained and with the new European cabin shiny new. Nobody would even remark...

  
 
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Polot
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 18):
the 13 oldest A320 were build in 1995/96 (and used to fly for former Swissair...).
D-ABEN is built 1993.

So, now tell me if those two years really matter now?
Looking from another point, oldest LH A320 (D-AIPA) is from 1989, but very well maintained and with the new European cabin shiny new. Nobody would even remark...

It doesn't matter, I am in complete agreement with you. I had no negative connotations with my previous comment, I think you were misreading my intention.
 
stylo777
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 19):
It doesn't matter, I am in complete agreement with you. I had no negative connotations with my previous comment, I think you were misreading my intention.

...and I was actually supporting your comment  
 
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Polot
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 20):
...and I was actually supporting your comment

Well nevermind then. Your smiley in your first post threw me off.

Of course in addition to the A320s about half of the A321s/A319 date from '95/'96 as well; most of their narrowbody fleet was delivered to their initial airlines (mostly Swissair) before the turn of the century.
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 16):
LX operates many A320s that are not that much newer than these 737s, don't assume because it is an A320 is it a young plane, especially in regards to the Euro airlines...


As a technology POV their A320 are 20 years newer that dinosaurs. The 320 is the airplane that brought jets to a new level of safety standards.
Proof is that all others are following. Even Boeing will do it one day, like in their wide bodies. and, BTW, grandfathering on models older than 20 years should be forbidden for the sake of our safety.
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Polot
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 22):
Proof is that all others are following. Even Boeing will do it one day, like in their wide bodies. and, BTW, grandfathering on models older than 20 years should be forbidden for the sake of our safety.

I guess you should still be avoiding those A320s (and the NEO when it comes) then...I mean those overwing exits aren't up to par like with the 737NG. Poor Airbus gambling with our safety 
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting poLot (Reply 23):
I guess you should still be avoiding those A320s (and the NEO when it comes) then...I mean those overwing exits aren't up to par like with the 737NG. Poor Airbus gambling with our safety

Yes, you are right, they should not allow such things as well.
But, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, you cannot compare a classic/jurassic with an A320.
I have flown the classics (long time ago, you know In Europe it is not so easy , was a domestic flight with Olimpic some ten years ago) and the experience was exactly the same of the A300 of Iran Air (done about 5 years ago). That you can compare.
Nobody is blind, I am sorry. Last time I rented a small car they had given me a Ford Fiesta, not a repainted Fiat 128 with new seats.
So, again, shame, shame on you, Swiss Air Lines, from and old time loyal customer.
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
cbphoto
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 15):
I would never put my feet on such old can of trash!
Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 24):
But, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, you cannot compare a classic/jurassic with an A320.
I have flown the classics (long time ago, you know In Europe it is not so easy , was a domestic flight with Olimpic some ten years ago) and the experience was exactly the same of the A300 of Iran Air (done about 5 years ago). That you can compare.
Nobody is blind, I am sorry. Last time I rented a small car they had given me a Ford Fiesta, not a repainted Fiat 128 with new seats.
So, again, shame, shame on you, Swiss Air Lines, from and old time loyal customer.

  Shows how much you know about this industry! Just stick to complaining about the sandwiches and leg room and leave the airlines to be run by the experts!

DL (formally NW) has been running DC-9s that were built in the 60s and 70s, and they have an excellent safety record. How many A320 series planes have crashed in the last 10 years? Again, your comments show you know nothing about how this industry operates!

Good Grief....
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
Andie007
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:59 pm

Same in Vienna on the OS route VIE-FCO...
 
Viscount724
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:06 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 25):
Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 15):
I would never put my feet on such old can of trash!
Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 24):
But, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, you cannot compare a classic/jurassic with an A320.
I have flown the classics (long time ago, you know In Europe it is not so easy , was a domestic flight with Olimpic some ten years ago) and the experience was exactly the same of the A300 of Iran Air (done about 5 years ago). That you can compare.
Nobody is blind, I am sorry. Last time I rented a small car they had given me a Ford Fiesta, not a repainted Fiat 128 with new seats.
So, again, shame, shame on you, Swiss Air Lines, from and old time loyal customer.

Shows how much you know about this industry! Just stick to complaining about the sandwiches and leg room and leave the airlines to be run by the experts!

DL (formally NW) has been running DC-9s that were built in the 60s and 70s, and they have an excellent safety record. How many A320 series planes have crashed in the last 10 years? Again, your comments show you know nothing about how this industry operates!

Good Grief....

Of the 146 737-100/200/300/400/500s LH has taken delivery of in the past 45 years (they were the 737 launch customer), how many have they written off in accidents? None.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:15 pm

D-ABXL is the oldest one, delivered in 1986. When it is retired this year, it has been in service for 26 years.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 27):
Of the 146 737-100/200/300/400/500s LH has taken delivery of in the past 45 years (they were the 737 launch customer), how many have they written off in accidents? None.

I know, hence why age has little too nothing to do with safety! Its about maintenance, training and overall operational culture that dictates how safe an aircraft is! I would rather fly a 1970s jet with an airline that has an excellent safety record, then a plane build last with with a not-so-reputable company!

Most people don't understand that concept (no offense, most of the traveling public is like this) and Aquila3 is clearly one of them. I can understand complaining about luxuries and amenities that might be on a newer airplane, but go rattling your mouth off about it being an unsafe, old can of trash, when clearly you know little about these planes and how this industry works!

Rant over!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:25 pm

Condor, LH subsidy, did have a fatal 732 crash in Izmir, however (around 1988).
 
gabrielchew
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 15):
Shame, shame on you LX!
I would never put my feet on such old can of trash! I do not want to bet my life because they want to spare (ops, optimize).
Is that Swiss or Delta?
Unbelievable!
Quoting Stratofish (Reply 9):
Cannot speak about EI Busses but the antique LH Bobbys are a true disgrace.

Have either of you been on a refurbished LH 737? They're in great shape, far better shape than most of the shorthual BA fleet. I've been on two recently (FRA-DUS and LGW-FRA) and both looked brand new on the inside.



This is an A320, but the seats are EXACTLY the same
http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights: LGW-OPO-LGW,LHR-FCO-CTA-LIN-LCY,LHR-AMS-GRQ-SEN,LTN-CPH-LHR-ORD
 
Stratofish
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:02 pm

Quoting Dufo (Reply 10):
Seriously? You sound like someone who doesn't pay for tickets himself. Is there such a difference for a one hour flight?

Quite the opposite, I do pay with my own money, hence I expect to fly the product I deliberately chose.

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 31):

Not the cabin I got on my last LH733 flights. Granted I avoided them for some time now.
Still, they are second generation (!) 737s that shall have no place in the fleets of modern airlines, regardless of cabin refurbishment.
I know some like old birds, well, not me and I very willing to shell out a little more of my hard earned cash to fly on one. As much as I am willing to pay more and fly airlines that actually pay their staff and treat them well. Ironically (and unfortunately) LH is in a vertical dive in this respect... but well, I am drifting off topic.

Two years are a good couple thousand hours of flying and at least about 1000 cycles. Besides its older design and technology.

I suspect we will see more of this as the implementation of SCORE progresses  
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
PhilInBRN
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:44 pm

The Boeing 737-300 are expected to stay in the Lufthansa fleet for some years. The last plane is planned to be phased out by 2016 hence the recent investment in modern interior fittings.

[Edited 2012-06-17 15:45:24]
 
VC10er
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 15):

You are honestly afraid for your life on Luftansa? LH and all major carriers are more safe than driving a car or even taking a bath. And LH? Common! Luftansa, LX, BA, UA, AS, EK, SQ or Cathay or Qantas etc are all equally safer than 99.9% of what you do every day. Is it that you just don't like 737's for some reason?
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 25):
Shows how much you know about this industry! Just stick to complaining about the sandwiches and leg room and leave the airlines to be run by the experts!

So do you mean that I should leave the forum to the experts like you?
I did not know that this was an EXPERTS ONLY forum.

Or maybe you just cannot afford somebody as a different opinion of yours on an old machine?
BTW, if you do not like my posts, ask for deletion. I am a paying subscriber like you.
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:59 am

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 29):
I know, hence why age has little too nothing to do with safety! Its about maintenance, training and overall operational culture that dictates how safe an aircraft is! I would rather fly a 1970s jet with an airline that has an excellent safety record, then a plane build last with with a not-so-reputable company!

Most people don't understand that concept (no offense, most of the traveling public is like this) and Aquila3 is clearly one of them. I can understand complaining about luxuries and amenities that might be on a newer airplane, but go rattling your mouth off about it being an unsafe, old can of trash, when clearly you know little about these planes and how this industry works!

So, the 25 y/o Fiat 128 (withe the new seats) that they want to give me at Avis/Hertz in place of the new Ford Fiesta had passed the yearly safety check, so it was perfectly safe on the books. Yet, no ABS, ESP, small tyres, etc. But same speed, same number of (new) seats, same room inside. Woud you take it without complain?

And yes, I know, in the US you are used to fly DC9 and older stuff, but this is not the case in EU.
And yes, would I feel at least uncomfortable on LH or LX if I have to fly on such noisy can.
There are reasons why I fly LX and not Ryan and co, and expecting top-notch machines is one of these.
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bennett123
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:17 am

Aquila3

Seems to me that there are two issues here;

"I would never put my feet on such old can of trash! I do not want to bet my life". You confuse old and dangerous.

IMO, the safety record of LH speaks for itself, both the B737 and generally. It has been updated recently, but sure, it is an old design. curiously, the last fatality was with a (then) 3 year old A320.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/operator/airline.php?var=5743

Curiously, you refer unfavourably to FR, but their fleet is MUCH younger;

http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/Ryanair.htm
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:38 am

Ok, if you feel safer on that low-hanging, bumped peel noisy can, good for you. Then hurry up to get a ride on those, otherwise you woud have to go to the US or, closer, North Africa, to get a ride on them in a couple of years.
Maybe Iran Air, besides their 747s they will get some soon too, somehow. It should have the range for South EU.
My feelings however are different, as, I bet, the ones of many LX customers.

BTW I was referring to FR only because, it is commonly perceived here on a.net as a cheaper quality carrirer. I know that they have an execellent safety record, even if the fly only (pretty recent) 738s. I did not want to deinigrate them at all. They probably do a great job for the money since they are so successful. Oh, yes, the money that dirty one.
What I meant was that the customer the flies frequently (mainly C/J , sorry, no complains for the sandwiches or legroom as our self appointed EXPERT insinuated) on LX has normally better quality expectations that getting a classic/jurassic under his (new) seat.
Then, this is a free world, anybody can choose, given the opportunity.
People do Boungee-jumping, it is deemed to be safe, I know a Swiss company that does that, so why not classic/jurassic on LX?
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
DALCE
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:23 am

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 38):
BTW I was referring to FR only because, it is commonly perceived here on a.net as a cheaper quality carrirer. I know that they have an execellent safety record, even if the fly only (pretty recent) 738s.

I prefer a LH 733 or 735 above any FR 738 handsdown. LH is a quality carrier with a very good and strong reputation, although personal taste may differ. FR is the low cost carrier of a low cost carriers in Europe and I would never compare them with LH or LX when it comes down to quality.

I will respect your piont of view about the LH733's being old rustbuckets, but I will totally disagree on that.
An average traveller will not notice the difference between a freshly re-vamped 26year old LH 737 or a 3-year old KL 737NG. They will both be very comfortable and above all.....maintained very well!

However, I don't like LX using LH metal on their flights....but that is a different story
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
speedbird128
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:51 am

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 36):
So, the 25 y/o Fiat 128 (withe the new seats) that they want to give me at Avis/Hertz in place of the new Ford Fiesta had passed the yearly safety check, so it was perfectly safe on the books. Yet, no ABS, ESP, small tyres, etc. But same speed, same number of (new) seats, same room inside. Woud you take it without complain?
Quoting Stratofish (Reply 32):
Still, they are second generation (!) 737s that shall have no place in the fleets of modern airlines, regardless of cabin refurbishment.
Are you guys high?

Aquila- a ticket is a contract of carriage. They could send you on the JU52 if they so desired ( I am imagining your pending hernia over that thought). You have zero say over the equipment they choose. Substitutions happen all the time due to operational requirements.

Strato - So every airline should have brand new aircraft all the time?? Why is that? The aircraft have lifetime design limitations and subject to correct maintenance and operations should safely reach retirement.
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cbphoto
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 35):
So do you mean that I should leave the forum to the experts like you?
I did not know that this was an EXPERTS ONLY forum.

Nope, but when you come on here and post baseless facts, expect to get some heat! You clearly pointed out that 737s, especially LHs ones are old and dangerous, yet you have nothing to back it up! Give my data, give me statistics on why the 737s are dangerous? Otherwise the stuff you are posting on here is just nonsense and really adds nothing to this post!

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 36):
And yes, I know, in the US you are used to fly DC9 and older stuff, but this is not the case in EU.
And yes, would I feel at least uncomfortable on LH or LX if I have to fly on such noisy can.
There are reasons why I fly LX and not Ryan and co, and expecting top-notch machines is one of these.

So what, because we fly DC-9s in the US, do we have a worse safety record then the EU, because we fly "older" airplanes? Again, show me facts where the US has more incidents, based on old equipment?

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 36):
So, the 25 y/o Fiat 128 (withe the new seats) that they want to give me at Avis/Hertz in place of the new Ford Fiesta had passed the yearly safety check, so it was perfectly safe on the books. Yet, no ABS, ESP, small tyres, etc. But same speed, same number of (new) seats, same room inside. Woud you take it without complain?

Seeing as though you like the car analogy so much, I'll stick to it. Take your scenario now, would you rather take a 25 year old Fiat, that is maintained by an impeccable car company and has a guaranteed service record and care program? Or would you rather take a 2 year old Ford Fiesta, from a less then reliable company, that has a poor maintenance record, and is likely to break down on you sometime during the trip? Which car would you take? A Car that has the nice amenities like the Fiesta, but might not get you to your destination, or the car that is "older" (as your say), but will for arguments sake, guarantee that you make it to your destination?
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
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DesertFlyer
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:05 pm

The amount of trolling these two posters are doing is off the charts. Honestly, I imagine very few people would have so much concern if their flight in on an LH 733 or LX A320, most will probably be happy to have their flight operate punctually, safely, and with a pleasant crew, no matter what the aircraft type. Honestly, the product looks very similar between the two aircraft.
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 41):
Nope, but when you come on here and post baseless facts, expect to get some heat! You clearly pointed out that 737s, especially LHs ones are old and dangerous, yet you have nothing to back it up! Give my data, give me statistics on why the 737s are dangerous? Otherwise the stuff you are posting on here is just nonsense and really adds nothing to this post!

Oh, thanks, Mr EXPERT to let me stay on this forum.Very kind of you.
The "nonsense stuff " that I post are my personal feelings, as a frequent traveller on LX, and it is exactly about the topic, so I believe it adds to it, that you like or not, thanks, Mr EXPERT for your kind understanding.
I let the staistics to the EXPERT people like you, I suggest you could open a specific forum for you and your peers, so you can praise each other without being disturbed.

And about the car analogy there is no "Other reliable company "involved. It is "the reliable company" offering a clearly outdated, sub-standard product for the market that it is operating.

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 40):
Are you guys high?

No, I am not , at the moment, while I do not have anything against that, if you are not driving or so.
Are you implying that we should always accept that without having a say?
Unless I did wake up in North Korea this morning or in another place of the like , I can either choose another mean of transportation if I know before booking the trip, or at least complain with the Carrier in case of late change of equipment.
In our world private enterprises still take some care of customers opinions especially if this reflects in their future purchase of a product.
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larshjort
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:42 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 22):
As a technology POV their A320 are 20 years newer that dinosaurs


Technologically the A320 is ~6 years newer than the 737 Classic. So the question is would you rather drive a 1983 Ford Sierra or a 1989 VW Passat. As cars go they are both very unsafe by todays standards. Besides safety in cars depend much more on the design of the car. A 10 year newer a car is much safer, but the difference between top of the line aircraft 1990 vs 2010 is very small.

The safety level of aircraft is a function of training (crew/maintenance), maintenance of the aircraft, company procedures and also age of the aircraft (cycles).

In this case one aircraft is 19 years old and the other is 17 years old, but it could easily have done more cycles than the 737 thereby increasing the risk of fatigue.
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Aquila3
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 44):
Technologically the A320 is ~6 years newer than the 737 Classic.

Fully disagree, sorry.
The Classic made technologically negligible improvements on the Jurassic, while the A320 (rightly so , being a new design) was a "game changer". Strangely this wording seems resereved to other (less innovative in my non expert opinion) aircrafts.
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Viscount724
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 45):
The Classic made technologically negligible improvements on the Jurassic,

The CFM56 was much more than a negligibile improvement over the JT8D.

I don't understand your issues with LH 733s. Not 1 in 1000 passengers will notice any difference between a LH 733 and a LH A320, or between a LH 733 and a brand-new 737NG.

Personally, I prefer any 737 over the A320 family. Yes, the A320 is a few inches wider but that's also very hard to notice. The 737 windows are larger and better positioned and I find the 737 quieter, especially in seats in line with the engines where the A320 family seems very loud especially on takeoff. I think it must have something to do with the slightly larger fan diameter on the CFM56s used on the Airbus models.

Have you flown a LH 733 since the interiors were completely renovated a year or so ago, with seats identical to those on the LH A320 family? They look like new aircraft. LH has always kept their fleet in excellent condition. The only major European carrier that does such a good job in that area, in my opinion, is KLM.
 
Stratofish
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:37 am

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 42):
The amount of trolling these two posters are doing is off the charts.

Whoa, we're having a bad day, haven't we? No need for such language.

Its simply that some are not happy to get a different product than they expect / pay for. A LH 733 is simply not on par with LX metal, regardless of the seats installed.
Also. nobody did question the safety of the 737 in general (although I do feel more comfortable on new aircraft). Neither is this another A vs.B.

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 40):
Strato - So every airline should have brand new aircraft all the time??

When flying a quality european airline that I pay a little premium for, I do expect not to fly on metal that's TWO generations behind. If that meets somebody's criteria of trolling, oh well...
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gabrielchew
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:08 am

Quoting Stratofish (Reply 47):
Its simply that some are not happy to get a different product than they expect / pay for. A LH 733 is simply not on par with LX metal, regardless of the seats installed.

How does the product differ? You've acknowledged that the seats are exactly the same, ergo the cabin is indential. The catering will be as per LX (if it operates as a normal wetlease). Other than the engines etc (which I don't think can be classified as a "product" that a passengers buys) the only other vaiable I can see if the livery (shock horror, it's white and yellow NOT white and red!) and the staff....are the LH staff that awful compared to LX?

A few years ago I booked a BA A320 LHR-HEL flight, but due to the strike I flew on an Air Finland B757 in a charter configuration. I think there I had a grounds to complain as the plane was old, and the seat pitch super tight. However the capacity was much bigger, so I had 3 seats to myself. The staff I thought were friendlier than BA, and the catering was as normal. Switching between LH 737 and LX 320 is NOT a big difference for 99% of customers.
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Burkhard
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RE: Lufthansa B733's Operating For Swiss?

Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:18 am

I have absolutely no doubt that the LH 733 are as safe as a plane can be, with perfect maintenenance well taken care of. There are many 5 year old aircraft I have flown I have more doubts about...

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