LOWS
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LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:29 pm

From this evenings's Evening Standard comes the news that London Mayor Boris Johnson will back a second runway at Stansted:

„The Mayor said another runway at the airport would be a “fantastic step in the right direction” to solving the South-East’s air capacity crisis before building a new hub in the Thames Estuary.“

Also: this revealing quote:

„He said: “We have to have a new airport. One of the only reasons I want to assume supreme power in England is to make sure that happens. For God’s sake, don’t quote me saying that.”

goo.gl/CDT48
 
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lightsaber
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting LOWS (Thread starter):
The Mayor said another runway at the airport would be a “fantastic step in the right direction” to solving the South-East’s air capacity crisis before building a new hub in the Thames Estuary.“

He is correct. But how likely is there enough political will to pull this off? We just saw the MUC 3rd runway voted down.
 
Quoting LOWS (Thread starter):
“We have to have a new airport. One of the only reasons I want to assume supreme power in England is to make sure that happens. For God’s sake, don’t quote me saying that.”

   He knows it is a very political decision.

I would also like to see a 2nd runway at LTN for future (ok, far future) growth. Then again, I was a huge fan of the idea of a 3rd LHR runway.

Lightsaber
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David_itl
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting LOWS (Thread starter):
The Mayor said another runway at the airport would be a “fantastic step in the right direction” to solving the South-East’s air capacity crisis

And he doesn't want to explain who will pay for this? It's an extra runway at LHR or no deal as that's where the pressing need is. No point having a runway elsewhere when it's predominantly low-cost airlines using it, one of whom is continually vocal about increased airport charges
 
BMI727
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:39 pm

Maybe Europe should start with building a new sidewalk. Then eventually they can work up to a new runway and perhaps even find it within themselves to build a new airport before all of their flag carriers go bankrupt.
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HPRamper
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:42 pm

STN is also the main cargo airport in the area as well, is it not? It's not just Ryanair.
 
LOWS
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 2):
And he doesn't want to explain who will pay for this? It's an extra runway at LHR or no deal as that's where the pressing need is. No point having a runway elsewhere when it's predominantly low-cost airlines using it, one of whom is continually vocal about increased airport charges

Maybe move the LGW LCCs to STN and then move some LHR traffic to LGW? Make it the unaffiliated and SkyTeam airport?

[Edited 2012-06-18 15:26:23]
 
JER757
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:41 pm

Why why WHY?? LHR is the only LON airport that is at capacity. Even LGW has plenty of open slots.

STN has been seeing reducing aircraft movements since 2007: http://www.ukaccs.info/stansted/stat1.gif

There would have to be a seismic shift in passenger and airline mentality for STN to be seen as a sensible option for long haul trave (which is what the UK needs growth in)l. The availability is there; the runway is sat unused for plenty of time during the day, the landing fees are cheap (compared to LHR) and public transport is acceptable. Yet how many long haul destinations does the place have? None. not a single one.

Unless you're going to shift BA lock stock and barrel from LHR (you'd have to relocate the flying pig squadron as well), there is no point whatsoever.

Boris is great on Have I Got News For You, however as Mayor of London all he cares about is soundbites to please the tabloids.
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bennett123
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:32 pm

"One of the only reasons I want to assume supreme power in England is to make sure that happens. For God’s sake, don’t quote me saying that.”

Says it all really. He wants to be next PM, or should we say "Fuhrer".

The mans ego would fill a barrage balloon, and the amount of hot air he generates would power the UK on it's own.
 
skipness1E
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:18 am

Let me translate :

"I say, you know that half empty Stansted Airport, well I have a jolly idea to annoy "call me Dave". Let's build another runway on the beautiful greenfields of Essex, or better still a super floating island in the Thames Estuary. Genius eh? God forbid we annoy the wealthy of West London. Boris for PM."

You know I voted for him but he's got NO concept of what he's talking about. I wonder how a Tory can be so thick headed. Demolishing Sipson for a third runway at LHR versus concreting over Essex is no comparison.
 
BD338
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:01 am

Another bonkers idea from Boris, let's expand an airport that less and less people are using. Let's see....Estuary Airport (Boris Island), outside the boundaries of the London Mayor, no votes lost for Boris.....Stansted Airport, outside the boundaries of the London Mayor, no votes lost for Boris....Heathrow Airport, inside the boundaries of the London Mayor, lots of votes lost for Boris. Coincidence?

No wonder he is foisting his hair brained schemes on everyone else...
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:21 am

Boris Johnson, what a joke, the only airport that needs a new runway is LHR, everybody knows that!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
I would also like to see a 2nd runway at LTN for future (ok, far future) growth.

All LTN needs is a taxiway extension to both runway ends, a second runway is not needed for now and the forseeable future.  
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
STN is also the main cargo airport in the area as well, is it not? It's not just Ryanair.

Well, there's GSS with their three 748F's, a daily UPS 763, a few daily FedEx flights and some Jet2 and Titan flights for the Royal Mail in the evening/night and that's about it. Oh, and perhaps an Asiana flight a few times per week and the odd Martinair from South America on their way to AMS. Really, STN is not very big when it comes to cargo.
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par13del
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 10):
the only airport that needs a new runway is LHR, everybody knows that!

Well, not in Boris defense but if everyone knows this it will happen when exatcly?
 
point2point
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:54 am

I have to say that I'm in much in awe -- of how LHR manages to operate in its monstrous fashion with only 2 runways.....

And amazed that London proper does what its does with it's whole air system with only 6 runways......

Here in DEN, we have 6 runways, and ready to add a 7th, and it's really nowhere near the activity of the entirety of London.

 Wow!
 
boysteve
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:00 am

Boris may 'support' an extra runway at Stansted, but he has durisdiction over the County of Essex so his opinion does not count.
 
UA735WL
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:04 am

Doesn't LGW need a (real) 2nd runway more than Stanstead?
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scouseflyer
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:43 am

My "two=penneth"

- I thought that "BoJo" has said that he's not going to stand for a third term and can't challenge DC for the top-job unless he's an MP which he won't be able to do until 2016. Meaning if he was party leader he's not going to fight an election until 2020 which is a long time for tempers to cool on unpopular but necessary building works.

- More capacity is needed in the South East of England

- Best place for it is LHR

- BUT that's going to make a god-awful mess of West London and is very unpopular (strange that people who live near an airport are objecting to an airport expanding........."

- Leaving STN or LGW expansion as the only viable options.

- Personally I'd go for STN as it's North of London and thus has a bigger catchment, if lots and lots of land is set aside for it, STN could gradually become like London's CDG (I'm talking over the next 50 years!) and LHR would gradually become the seconadary hub
 
AS739BSI
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:54 am

Here is what I don't get, if you are living next to a busy airport and motorway, why would you not want to pick up and move elsewhere with less noise?
 
r2rho
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:21 am

Given the state of the airport situation in the London area, ANY new runway anywhere would be welcome. Having said that, I think a second rwy at LGW should be first on the priority list (I am aware this is not possible before 2019, but that's how long it would take to build anyway). STN has lots of great room for expansion but is placed too out of the way, LTN is actually better placed. LHR I consider a lost case and should not get any new runway.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:28 am

The issue with LHR isn't just the destruction caused by the building of a 3rd runway, as basically it's in the wrong location. Flights have to go over Central London to reach it - great for views out, not so good for London - and the prevailing wind from the west blows the polution over London instead of away from London. Thus expansion is very controversial.

It's a good question WHY non LCC and Charter flights seemed to have failed to make a go of LGW and STN, LGW has brilliant rail links to London, someone in the financial square mile would get to LGW faster than they would to LHR, and for most people south of the river is far more convenient. LGW has always had this 2nd class image, as the airport for holidaymakers, which EWR doesn't.
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Clydenairways
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:10 am

Borris can say he supports this all he want's, because knowing how long the planning process takes to happen in the UK, he will be long out of office before they actually get started on it.
I'd say 20 years time from now for a second runway to be actually opened.
 
fcogafa
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:27 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 11):
Well, there's GSS with their three 748F's, a daily UPS 763, a few daily FedEx flights and some Jet2 and Titan flights for the Royal Mail in the evening/night and that's about it. Oh, and perhaps an Asiana flight a few times per week and the odd Martinair from South America on their way to AMS. Really, STN is not very big when it comes to cargo.

Heathrow is by far the biggest cargo airport in the UK, in fact I believe the second biggest port in the UK. Of course that is mostly via belly freight, not dedicated freighters!
 
LX138
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:43 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 18):
It's a good question WHY non LCC and Charter flights seemed to have failed to make a go of LGW and STN, LGW has brilliant rail links to London, someone in the financial square mile would get to LGW faster than they would to LHR, and for most people south of the river is far more convenient. LGW has always had this 2nd class image, as the airport for holidaymakers, which EWR doesn't.

There are plenty of non-charter and LCC carriers at LGW, including major airlines from the three big alliances.

BAA has been instrumental in maintaining a 'buzz' factor about LHR to keep rates and yields high there, even though its as easy to send major network carriers to STN and LGW. Hopefully this will change as they no longer own LGW.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 17):
Given the state of the airport situation in the London area, ANY new runway anywhere would be welcome. Having said that, I think a second rwy at LGW should be first on the priority list (I am aware this is not possible before 2019, but that's how long it would take to build anyway). STN has lots of great room for expansion but is placed too out of the way, LTN is actually better placed. LHR I consider a lost case and should not get any new runway.

Unless the government seriously intervenes and almost 'tells' the airlines they must now relocate to STN or elsewhere (similar to BKK and Don Muang), then weaning them off the tradition that LHR rules will be a very hard task. So at the moment, airlines won't make use of a new runway at STN because they will say they prefer LHR because that's where the connections are and it's where their 'passengers prefer to fly into'.

LTN - not sure what the restrictions are on even squeezing in another runway there, anybody from LTN know?
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LOWS
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:59 am

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 15):
- I thought that "BoJo" has said that he's not going to stand for a third term and can't challenge DC for the top-job unless he's an MP which he won't be able to do until 2016. Meaning if he was party leader he's not going to fight an election until 2020 which is a long time for tempers to cool on unpopular but necessary building works.

No, there could be a by-election that he could stand in, and challenge DC the day after he is elected. He could also resign and stand in the 2015 general election, or not resign and continue to be mayor, if he lost his seat in the House of Commons.

[Edited 2012-06-19 04:54:19]
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:07 pm

Less "important" political opposition to a new runway at STN, so it gets backed.

Its pointless as STN has loads of capacity as it is and is too far out for the flag carriers to move to in any meaningful way.

Government paying lip service to transport policy while in actuality just fobbing it off for 20 years for the next lot to deal with.

Meanwhile LHR continues as it is. No new terminal space in the world will help whats happening there. Its not actually the local people who object to LNR expansion - the vast majority of the folks who live nearby are airport employees, but the real opposition comes from the Richmond-Kensington belt.

I'm one of the few people who likes the idea of an enormous intermodal transport hub including massive new aiport at least as big as LNR is now, new super post-Panamax container port, LNG terminal at Canvey Island etc, rail hub, super-high speed rail links into London itself, plus high speed rail links a-la Eurostar to Paris and Brussels etc so we start clawing back the transit pax market. I think its a fantastic idea. It wont ever get built because nobody will let it happen and by the time the government has fought it through courts, appeals, more courts, more commissions and more courts it will take 30- years and untold dozens of billions - which we cant afford.

We cant afford not to of course, but nobody thinks ten years ahead these days. Sad.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
AirbusA6
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting LX138 (Reply 21):
It's a good question WHY non LCC and Charter flights seemed to have failed to make a go of LGW and STN, LGW has brilliant rail links to London, someone in the financial square mile would get to LGW faster than they would to LHR, and for most people south of the river is far more convenient. LGW has always had this 2nd class image, as the airport for holidaymakers, which EWR doesn't.

There are plenty of non-charter and LCC carriers at LGW, including major airlines from the three big alliances

I was thinking of the various carriers that tried to compete against BA using LGW that are no more, BCal, Air Europe, Dan Air.
VS started at LGW but moved into LHR as soon as it could.
The way the US carriers moved out of LGW as soon as they could...
BA's half hearted route network at LGW.

Yes there are intercontinental flights there, but they are mainly in addiition to LHR ones, not instead...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
LX138
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 23):
I'm one of the few people who likes the idea of an enormous intermodal transport hub including massive new aiport at least as big as LNR is now, new super post-Panamax container port, LNG terminal at Canvey Island etc, rail hub, super-high speed rail links into London itself, plus high speed rail links a-la Eurostar to Paris and Brussels etc so we start clawing back the transit pax market.

I'm a fan of that idea too.

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 24):
I was thinking of the various carriers that tried to compete against BA using LGW that are no more, BCal, Air Europe, Dan Air.
VS started at LGW but moved into LHR as soon as it could.
The way the US carriers moved out of LGW as soon as they could...
BA's half hearted route network at LGW.

Yes there are intercontinental flights there, but they are mainly in addiition to LHR ones, not instead...

Yes, it's true. The focus on LHR as I said earlier has not been helped by BAA encouraging it though. It's also fair to say VS are a worthy competitor in the lelsure market against BA out of LGW. Dan Air and Caledonian of course were taken over by BA, and Air Europe was mostly a charter carrier though. So people have tried.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting LX138 (Reply 21):

LTN - not sure what the restrictions are on even squeezing in another runway there, anybody from LTN know?

We have no room for another runway.. we do have room for an extension and are close to getting the go ahead for extended taxiways which will be major improvements. LTN council and the company leasing seem to have big plans for the airport and a huge boost in capacity but this wont come with an extra runway and I think thats right.
 
jumpjets
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 15):
(strange that people who live near an airport are objecting to an airport expanding........."

..maybe you'd think differently if it's the home you have lived in for 30 years that's going to be demolished to make way for the extra runway.

I wish there was a solution to the LHR overcrowding situation that is economically and socially acceptable - but as a west londoner who LOVES LHR even I can see that the long terrm solution has to lie elsewhere.
 
crj200faguy
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:44 pm

I support a 2nd runway at LCY!!!
 
brilondon
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:25 pm

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 28):

I support a 2nd runway at LCY!!!

That has less of a chance of happening then the third runway option at LHR.  
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
crj200faguy
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 29):
That has less of a chance of happening then the third runway option at LHR.  



Come on now it's entirely plausible. lol
 
cambridgeflyer1
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:14 pm

There is no point in building a second runway at STN, the airport is quiet as it is and no where near capacity. Airlines don't want to go to Stansted, both Air Asia X and Air Berlin (mostly) pulling out and moving to LGW.

As people have been saying, LHR is the airport that needs the third runway.
 
Gingersnap
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 27):
.maybe you'd think differently if it's the home you have lived in for 30 years that's going to be demolished to make way for the extra runway.

I agree with you there. It was never going to be a popular decision, but surely anyone who moves near to an airport should expect at some point that they can and will expand. Expansion isn't a recent phenomenon, and it was something that has been a long time coming for many, many years.

The Thames Estuary airport isn't a workable option in the near future, but I do suspect we will build a brand new airport at some point. However for now we need at least another runway at Heathrow; unless of course we're happy to sacrifice economic gains.
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HPRamper
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting CambridgeFlyer1 (Reply 31):
As people have been saying, LHR is the airport that needs the third runway.
Quoting gingersnap (Reply 32):
The Thames Estuary airport isn't a workable option in the near future, but I do suspect we will build a brand new airport at some point. However for now we need at least another runway at Heathrow; unless of course we're happy to sacrifice economic gains.

If at some point another airport is going to have to replace LHR, at what point do you decide to bite the bullet and build the damn thing? Consider that adding a third runway at LHR makes it exponentially less likely that a new airport will even be considered any time in the foreseeable future. If indeed a new airport will be needed, then it will be simply throwing money into a hole that in the end will never give it back.

There will always be a "preferred" airport in any large market that most carriers will seem to gravitate toward (with the notable exception of NYC, although artificial restrictions do change the situation there). LHR will continue to be that airport for London, and while at first glance London has multiple other options - LGW, LTN, STN, LCY - that doesn't mean they will ever be utilized to their potential and if there are no incentives for airlines to "spread the love" so to speak, there is no reason they ever will. It is a fallacy to simply say "London has more than enough runway space" when most of those runways sit underused due to little pressure to change that undesirable situation.
 
connies4ever
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 17):
(I am aware this is not possible before 2019, but that's how long it would take to build anyway).

Absent building a 3rd runway at LHR it seems to me that a 2nd at LGW makes the most sense, notwithstanding the current legal agreement. STN as has been indicated is nowhere near capacity. Legal agreement you say ? These can always be changed, assuming there is someone with appendages big and hairy enough to stare down the oppo's to this proposal. Not sure DC is the right man for the job. Where's Maggie when you need her ? Agree with her or not (and generally I didn't), but she always had the equipment.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
GDB
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 23):

Less "important" political opposition to a new runway at STN, so it gets backed.

Quite.
Cannot piss off your voting base Boris?

Not that his colleagues/rivals in Government are much better.
They are going to have to u-turn on the LHR runway so why not get it out of the way, it's not that their not at all politically shallow opposition to it even garnered them many more seats in the 2010 election, if it had, they might not have to be in a coalition. Some 'Target Seats' for them last time, very affected by LHR, did not go their way.

I also have the felling that if the LHR flightpath only went over, shall we say less 'well to do' areas, that runway would already be here.
But the well heeled (and usually takers of several foreign holidays a year NOT on LCC's), of places like Richmond have the time, the money, the influence, the contacts that others do not.

The Transport Secretary got her seat in Putney on the back on LHR opposition.
The Aviation Secretary is just dense. And looks it.

You know how bad aviation policy is when the likes of Willie Walsh don't even bother to hide his contempt for them any more, in public statements. I've never heard a CEO of BA ever remotely be as frank about government.
Maybe not a sound idea to influence them?
However his statements also indicate he's tried that but given up on them.
 
skipness1E
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:32 pm

There's a wonderful piece in tonights London Evening Standard on the son of a billionaire, MP Zac Goldsmith, looking every inch the powerful miilionaire standing outside a large house saying he will resign the Tory whip of the party does a U Turn on runway three. I wonder of he's smart enough to know that he was set up to look EXACTLY as I described him by a paper that's campaigning for.....runway three at Heathrow.

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/...d-his-runway-betrayal-7865675.html
 
col
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:19 am

Best option is to tell the people you are building three new runways at LHR, making 5 in total. Then negotiate down to 1 or 2 new ones.

Anyway this is the UK we are talking about, nothing will get done, lots of hot air and taxes.
 
jumpjets
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:45 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 35):
The Transport Secretary got her seat in Putney on the back on LHR opposition.

As a Putney voter I'd dispute that - its more likely she got her seat because the residents of Putney finally forgave the Tories for the David Mellor scandal and what was always been a traditional Tory seat went back to its routes [or is that roots].
 
vv701
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RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:08 am

Quoting LX138 (Reply 21):
Unless the government seriously intervenes and almost 'tells' the airlines they must now relocate to STN or elsewhere (similar to BKK and Don Muang), then weaning them off the tradition that LHR rules will be a very hard task.

I have a slight sense of deja vu.

Back in March 1991 when the current passenger terminal at STN was completed no airline wanted to use it.. BAA, the owner of both LHR and STN, effectively tried to stop further expansion at LHR by telling airlines any new flights to LON would have to be operated into STN. The American airlines and others led by AA objected and threatened legal action. BAA capitulated and the British press christened the new, virtually unused STN terminal as "Europe's biggest white elephant",

STN was "saved" by Michael O'Leary. He was appointed CEO of FR in January 1994. He sawSTN's "white elephant" as an opportunity. He negotiated a deal with BAA. This gave FR huge discounts for operatring to new destinations out of STN. These discounts would gradually reduce over the years as the routes became established. As a result FR has 53,244 of the 86,730 (61.4 per cent) air traffic movements scheduled to be operated in the current Sumer Season into and out of STN. See page 10 of the "STN s12 sTART OF sEASON"here:

http://www.acl-uk.org/reportsStatistics.aspx?id=98&subjectId=57

Nevertheless the idea of a second runway at STN has a huge advantage over that for a third runway at LHR particularly for a London Mayor. This is that relatively few electors and none eligible to vote in London's Mayorial elections live under the flight paths into and out of STN.

Building a second runway at STN is, as suggested by the Guardian newspaper back in 2003, likely to create a new "white elephant". Today STN is operating nowhere near capacity - see page 12 in the above link.

Would a second runway encourage any airline not currently operating into STN to move there? Well, if the terms were right (as they were for FR back in 1992), possibly. But it would not attract the business that LHR currently attracts. That is down to LHR's status as an international hub.

There is clearly a reason why the likes of FR and U2 prosper at STN and LGW but do not operate from LHR. There is clearly a reason why AA, CO, DL, NW and US virtually deserted LGW and moved to LHR en mass on the same date, 30 March 2008. There is a reason why CO reportedly paid AF, AZ and GT US$209 million for four LHR slot pairs. And the reason very clearly was not because STN and LGW only had one runway and LHR had two.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
STN is also the main cargo airport in the area as well, is it not?

No. There are certainly more cargo aircraft operating into STN than LHR. FX is the fourth largest operator there when measured by aircraft movements and BA World Cargo operates three 748Fs out of the airport. However almost 80 per cent of all aircraft movements at STN are operated by FR and U2 passenger aircraft that carry little if any cargo.

There are a small number of all-cargo flights into LHR operated by KE and on behalf of BA by DHL. However the volume of cargo carried in the freight holds of passenger aircraft is very high. This makes LHR a significantly larger cargo airport than any other in the UK. Statistically it is 44 per cent bigger than STN. In the first five months of 2012 LHR handled 123,172 tons of cargo, STN 85,263 tons as reported here:

http://www.joc.com/international-air...hrow-cargo-volume-drops-38-percent
 
LX138
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:45 pm

RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 39):
I have a slight sense of deja vu.

Back in March 1991 when the current passenger terminal at STN was completed no airline wanted to use it.. BAA, the owner of both LHR and STN, effectively tried to stop further expansion at LHR by telling airlines any new flights to LON would have to be operated into STN. The American airlines and others led by AA objected and threatened legal action. BAA capitulated and the British press christened the new, virtually unused STN terminal as "Europe's biggest white elephant",

Yes, so to clarify, it should be built at LHR if they cannot be bothered to tell airlines to use STN. If they can be bothered, or if the inappropriately appointed transport minister Justine Greening departs, then there might be a shift in view to adding capacity elsewhere. Saying that, when she does go, then LHR might be more plausible as it won't affect her constituency agenda.
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skipness1E
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: LON Mayor Boris Johnson: Yes 2nd Stansted Runway

Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting LX138 (Reply 40):
If they can be bothered

It's more a matter of favouring who to leave at Heathrow with a competitve advantage over who gets deported to Stansted, skewing the market and falling foul of competition rules.

Heathrow has around 9 B744 freighters a week :
2 from Singapore (Thu/Sat)
4 from Cathay (Sun/Mon/Tue/Fri)
2 from Korean (Thu/Sat)
1 from EVA (Sun)

There is also a single RJ A310F on a Saturday afternoon in addition to the DHL base.