n471wn
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SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:27 pm

Sadly the time has come when SWA is retiring the venerable 500 series of which they have 25. The first two (513 and 519) are in the desert awaiting their fate and both have around 62,000 hours and about the same number of cycles----we will all miss the 122 seat "shorty planes" and while these a/c were built for longer and thinner routes, their flights averaged about one hour....
 
phishphan70
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:30 pm

Will make spotting at SJC a whole lot more bland now.......
 
wnflyguy
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:34 pm

By the end of the year I think WN should be down to 15 airframes.
Wnfg  
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
lat41
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:04 pm

Aren't the 500's newer than the 300s? I beleive they were also introduced by Boeing after the 300 with some modernizations and enhancements.
 
phishphan70
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting lat41 (Reply 3):
Aren't the 500's newer than the 300s? I beleive they were also introduced by Boeing after the 300 with some modernizations and enhancements.

They may be, but their CASM is far far lower than the 300s. That's why the 600 is such a poor selling airplane too....
 
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seabosdca
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting lat41 (Reply 3):
Aren't the 500's newer than the 300s?

They are newer than the oldest -300s, but what matters more is that they don't bring in as much revenue and are only marginally cheaper to fly, while adding complication to the system.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:16 pm

Ironically, I saw two WN 735's land over In 'N' Out one after the other at LAX.
 
bennett123
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:41 pm

Surely with fewer seats, the CASM would be higher, not lower.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting lat41 (Reply 3):
Aren't the 500's newer than the 300s?

In my mind, retiring the 500's before the 300's is putting the cart before the horse. I've flown a couple of WN 300's which should be retired.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
SXDFC
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:43 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):

In my mind, retiring the 500's before the 300's is putting the cart before the horse. I've flown a couple of WN 300's which should be retired.

Its easy to tell which planes WN is keeping, If it doesn't have winglets it wont be staying long.. It could also be due to the fact that their leases maybe ending.

Quoting lat41 (Reply 3):
Aren't the 500's newer than the 300s? I believe they were also introduced by Boeing after the 300 with some modernizations and enhancements

The -300s with winglets will be staying around longer, and will be approaching retirement by 2016, odds are they will be replaced by the 737MAX. Southwest typically keeps their planes between 20-25 years.

One final note, Shamu One ( N334SW ) will be retired this year so get your pics of her while you can. As of now, I am not sure which particular A/C or Nose number will replace 334s role as Shamu One. I am personally hoping for an -800.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:51 am

How long will the draw down last? Any guesses on the last routes?
 
southwest737500
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:06 am

How many planes is WN recieving this year
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
SXDFC
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 10):
How long will the draw down last? Any guesses on the last routes?

It seems as if the -500s are everywhere within the last few years, back in 2005 they pretty much stayed within Texas.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 11):
How many planes is WN recieving this year

As of now, there are 12 -800s on property, with 16 more to be delivered by the end of 2012.

So far they have converted 4 FL -700s with about 9 more sked to be converted by the end of 2012

If you spot a -700 with a 4 digit nose number, its a former FL machine, it has WIFI, and is in the new "Evolve" interior.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
BD338
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:51 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 12):
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 11):
How many planes is WN recieving this year

As of now, there are 12 -800s on property, with 16 more to be delivered by the end of 2012.

The latest 10Q states 31 -800s to be delivered in 2012 (26 owned, 5 leased). 40 -300/500's to be retired in 2012. in 2013 a further 41 -800s are slated to be delivered.
 
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SANFan
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:14 am

I probably should know the answer to this quesiton but is there any place I can find out where the -800s are flying? (Routes in general, or even specific daily appearances?) Are they actually scheduled now in specific markets or are they often just last-minute subs? Thanks in advance for any help with this.

bb
 
SXDFC
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:18 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 14):
I probably should know the answer to this quesiton but is there any place I can find out where the -800s are flying? (Routes in general, or even specific daily appearances?) Are they actually scheduled now in specific markets or are they often just last-minute subs? Thanks in advance for any help with this.

Off the top of my head:

BWI, LGA, LAS, PHX, MDW, FLL.. I am sure there might be more..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
alggag
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:22 am

Good riddance. I'm a WN fan but I've disliked the -500s and they really didn't do anything that a -300 couldn't do.
 
gizmonc
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:31 am

Try doing weight and balance on a 730-300 with no winglets opposed to a 737-500, Right off the bat, the 500 has 17 seats less so the MTOW is lower. It is so HARD to make it work on these HOT summer days with a LOADED 737-300 from the midwest to west coast. Load it up with sufficient fuel and 137 passengers, if there is any freight to take most chances it can not be loaded. Now give me a 737-500 with 17 less passengers and I can put up to 150 bags on that aircraft, some freight loaded with fuel to make it to the west coast. I have loaded a 727-500 probably 4 times out of the last week and no problem getting it to SAN, but had it been a 737-300 there would have been a major problem. GIVE me a 737-700 anyday opposed to a 737-300.
 
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cotparampguy
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:07 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 15):

I saw one in SEA the other day, are they sending it there now too?
 
MSPNWA
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:26 am

Quoting cotparampguy (Reply 18):
I saw one in SEA the other day, are they sending it there now too?

Apparently, yes. Last Saturday I was looking on FlightAware, and it showed a 738 on MDW-SEA. Thinking it might be an error, I looked on WN's website, and sure enough there's a Saturday evening flight scheduled on a 738. It might be Saturday-only, but I haven't investigated it to be sure.

[Edited 2012-06-18 21:26:54]
 
KBUF
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:29 am

Glad I rode on one last month, now knowing this. They'll be missed.
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unmlobo
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:38 am

I didn't know we were already beginning to retire the -500s.

I have always loved them, in fact it was one of my goals to get all 25 tail numbers in my passenger logbook. Sadly I will not get 513, but I have been on 519. Godspeed to you two birds, I guess I better start filling in the rest of the -500s to be log ASAP.
The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of Southwest Airlines its Directors or its Employees
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:52 am

Quoting n471wn (Thread starter):
we will all miss the 122 seat "shorty planes

Not all of us! Good riddance I say. They are a pain in the you-know-what to load. There is a serious lack of cargo bin space, yet they always seem to be routed on notoriously heavy flights out of SAN. They tell us to load them slightly front heavy, but there's about 1/2 the space up front compared to a -700. A SAN to HOU flight for example will have 120 bags and maybe a cart or two of freight and with today's bags, on a -500 if you're a decent stacker you might fit 50 bags up front.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 14):

I probably should know the answer to this quesiton but is there any place I can find out where the -800s are flying? (Routes in general, or even specific daily appearances?) Are they actually scheduled now in specific markets or are they often just last-minute subs? Thanks in advance for any help with this.

bb


I missed it, Bob, but SAN got a -800 last Monday! It was due to a swap up-line so I had no advance notice and was off that day.  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
UA735WL
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:02 am

I will miss the WN shorty 737s...although I do think the 732 was more of a loss than these.
"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions" -Tex Johnston
 
AS739BSI
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:37 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 19):
Apparently, yes. Last Saturday I was looking on FlightAware, and it showed a 738 on MDW-SEA. Thinking it might be an error, I looked on WN's website, and sure enough there's a Saturday evening flight scheduled on a 738. It might be Saturday-only, but I haven't investigated it to be sure.

Wednesday of last week. After I arrived into SEA. There was an 800 parked at B8 which I thought was crazy but it had to be given it had ETOPS on the front gear door and the two window overwings.
 
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cotparampguy
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 24):

Yup that was it. I was flying out on B6 and saw it over there.
 
BCEaglesCO757
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:28 am

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 17):
Try doing weight and balance on a 730-300 with no winglets opposed to a 737-500, Right off the bat, the 500 has 17 seats less so the MTOW is lower. It is so HARD to make it work on these HOT summer days with a LOADED 737-300 from the midwest to west coast. Load it up with sufficient fuel and 137 passengers, if there is any freight to take most chances it can not be loaded. Now give me a 737-500 with 17 less passengers and I can put up to 150 bags on that aircraft, some freight loaded with fuel to make it to the west coast. I have loaded a 727-500 probably 4 times out of the last week and no problem getting it to SAN, but had it been a 737-300 there would have been a major problem. GIVE me a 737-700 anyday opposed to a 737-300.

At CO...well United now, our -500's seat around 114 IIRC. I found them to be a pain on a route such as IAH-MEX as we make alot of stuff 'fit' on the plane. Utilizing all space possible. We've had them on IAH-LAX in the past too. Once again bulked out to the gills when possible.

IMO in terms of payload,commodities,bags,etc... I thought the 700's and 300's to be virtually the same aircraft in terms of what we could get onboard. I'd take both over the 500 any day.

The 500's ? A pain in my a^% if you ask me.

On a side note. I remember when IAH-PTY and IAH-BOG were merely one flight a day,both on 737-700's.. Now BOG has turned into 2 flights, the 1st on a 738,both with a ton of bags. PTY inself has ballooned to a 738 and the second, a 200+ bag monster on the 753. Not sure what it does nowadays, but UA1034 would turn LAX-IAH-PTY on that 753. It had to be at least 12k down, 10k-12k up. God bless the crew who had to turn it  
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 22):
on a -500 if you're a decent stacker you might fit 50 bags up front.

Seen 65-70 in Bin 2 on IAH-MEX and IAH-BJX. Done 72 myself. Bin one...which is basically the doorway...do it good and you can get 20-25 there. So 90-100 before you get to the back. It was always stressed we never want to go to the back if we don't have to. Plus if there is freight and mail..which on MEX there is, we needed as much room as possible.

If you guys at WN decide to venture off into UIO,SAL,SAP or GUA from Hobby. I can't see anything smaller than an 800 on those routes. And if you think HOU-SAN is bad.....good luck with the 'bowling alleys' that are the back of those 800's  

[Edited 2012-06-19 01:30:51]

[Edited 2012-06-19 01:32:47]

[Edited 2012-06-19 01:33:40]

[Edited 2012-06-19 01:35:52]
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:42 am

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 26):
Seen 65-70 in Bin 2 on IAH-MEX and IAH-BJX. Done 72 myself. Bin one...which is basically the doorway...do it good and you can get 20-25 there. So 90-100 before you get to the back.

On a 737-500? I have a hard time believing that. Especially with the size of bags today, no way. in 8 years on the ramp, I have never seen 90-100 stacked up front on a -500. They'd have to all be carryon size in order to fit that many.

90-100, while routine a few years ago is damn near impossible up front on a 737-700 these days.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 26):
good luck with the 'bowling alleys' that are the back of those 800's

Trust me. We are not looking forward to it.

[Edited 2012-06-19 01:54:18]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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SANFan
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:53 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 19):
Thinking it might be an error, I looked on WN's website, and sure enough there's a Saturday evening flight scheduled on a 738.

You have sort of answered my question...

Quoting SANFan (Reply 14):
is there any place I can find out where the -800s are flying? (Routes in general, or even specific daily appearances?)

So please, MSP', tell me WHERE on "WN's website" did you find the information that "there's a Saturday evening flight scheduled on a 738"????? That's exactly what I'm trying to find!

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 22):
I missed it, Bob, but SAN got a -800 last Monday! It was due to a swap up-line so I had no advance notice and was off that day.

Darn! Come on now R, how many times have I asked you to stop taking days off at work? It just means more missed sitings and great photos lost! Hopefully you and your camera will be there some day when an -800 comes a callin'!

bb
 
na
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:18 am

Quoting n471wn (Thread starter):
The first two (513 and 519) are in the desert awaiting their fate

The line neighbour of 519, a LH 735, has been scrapped last year. I doubt that many of SWAs 735, if any, will find a new operator. 735s built before the mid-90s are mostly scrapped nowadays once they are retired by the current operator. UAs 735s of the same age, which are stored since a few years, are being ferried away from Victorville and scrapped at the moment at a rate of two in a month.

Quoting lat41 (Reply 3):
Aren't the 500's newer than the 300s?

Yes and no. SWA has many 733s which are older than the relatively small 735 sub-fleet, but also very many which were built later. They still have some very old 733s from 1985 which are about 5 years older than the oldest 735.
 
usflyguy
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:43 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 19):

-800 MDW-SEA is daily for the evening flight.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:34 pm

Are there any 300s without winglets still or is that only the 500s?
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
na
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 31):

Are there any 300s without winglets still or is that only the 500s?

The old 733s which are being retired rather soon dont have winglets.
 
southwest737500
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:43 pm

It will be sad. I flew on 513 from TUL- DAL.
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
n471wn
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 12):
As of now, there are 12 -800s on property

Actually SWA now has 14 800's
 
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SEPilot
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 17):
GIVE me a 737-700 anyday opposed to a 737-300.

Which is exactly why Boeing built the NG's. 
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
SXDFC
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 31):
Are there any 300s without winglets still or is that only the 500s?

737-300s

A/C 308-351, 657-699

737-500s

A/C 501-528

Quoting n471wn (Reply 34):
Actually SWA now has 14 800's

Sorry for the wrong answer, saw elsewhere that it said 12, obviously now outdated!

Quoting na (Reply 29):
Yes and no. SWA has many 733s which are older than the relatively small 735 sub-fleet,

With the exception of the -200s and the -800s WN has been the launch customer of every plane they flew, so without a doubt WNs -300s ( most of which are now retired ), and their -500s are some of the oldest around.

N501SW - First ever -500 ever built

N707SA - First ever 737NG ever built.

Not sure about N300SW.. I am pretty sure Piedmont might have had the first -300 airframe..

As of 2017 we will prob get the first 737MAX frames too.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 22):
Not all of us! Good riddance I say. They are a pain in the you-know-what to load. There is a serious lack of cargo bin space, yet they always seem to be routed on notoriously heavy flights out of SAN.

  

I never understood why they had a "A" bin on a -500.. you cant really fit anything in there.. I am a bit curious as to if UA/CO -500s have a similar layout.

Quoting cotparampguy (Reply 18):
I saw one in SEA the other day, are they sending it there now too?

I mentioned the routes that were off the top of my head, I am sure there are a few more that I missed.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
n471wn
Topic Author
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 36):
With the exception of the -200s and the -800s WN has been the launch customer of every plane they flew, so without a doubt WNs -300s ( most of which are now retired ), and their -500s are some of the oldest around.

actually 150 300's are still in service at SWA!!
 
MSPNWA
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 24):
Wednesday of last week. After I arrived into SEA. There was an 800 parked at B8 which I thought was crazy but it had to be given it had ETOPS on the front gear door and the two window overwings.
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 30):
-800 MDW-SEA is daily for the evening flight.

Well that answers that. One -800 flight a day.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 28):
So please, MSP', tell me WHERE on "WN's website" did you find the information that "there's a Saturday evening flight scheduled on a 738"????? That's exactly what I'm trying to find!

On the select flight page, click on the flight number. It will bring up some information that includes the aircraft type. Looks like the -800 is a daily RON flight into SEA.
 
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SANFan
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 38):
On the select flight page, click on the flight number. It will bring up some information that includes the aircraft type. Looks like the -800 is a daily RON flight into SEA.

Thank you! I'll give it a try.

bb
 
BCEaglesCO757
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 27):
On a 737-500? I have a hard time believing that. Especially with the size of bags today, no way. in 8 years on the ramp, I have never seen 90-100 stacked up front on a -500. They'd have to all be carryon size in order to fit that many.

90-100, while routine a few years ago is damn near impossible up front on a 737-700 these days

That was in 2007. But 72. There were some carry-on size bags in there. But 72 is 72. Yeah..the lead said the same thing afterward. No way.
 
NWAROOSTER
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:02 pm

I think Southwest Airlines will hang on to the 737-300s as is it, most likely going to take a fairly long time to standardize AirTran's 737-700s to match Southwest's 737-700s. This could be especially true of the cockpit, which may require extensive modifications. Then the AirTran pilots will have to be qualified on the modified 737s. There will be interior cabin modifications that will be necessary along with requalification training for the former AirTran flight attendants.
I still think Southwest bit off more than they can chew, when they acquired AirTran. They have to deal with the world's largest fleet of 717s, which they do not want and may have solved that problem at a lose buy subleasing them to Delta.
Then there is the odd ball fleet of 737-700s that I mentioned above.
Finally, they must qualify and integrate all the former AirTran employees.
I do NOT think Southwest is gaining much with this "merger" and may not gain a good return for all the effort necessary to make a successful airline out of the two carriers.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
FlyHossD
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 27):
Trust me. We are not looking forward to it.

Wait til you get -900s!

As far as the -500 goes, it was fun to fly and easy to land well. As unwanted as they are, I've wondered why CO (now UA) didn't buy the leased planes and keep them around (ala NW and the DC-9s). The used purchase price has got to be far cheaper than the 100 seat RJs; you could buy a lot of fuel with that difference. Plus, you'd have the benefit of avoiding the costs of a new type.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
BCEaglesCO757
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 42):
Wait til you get -900s!

At CO our 900's have carpets,front and back. So you can work it with 3 people. 3+the Lead. One guy in the bin loading or unloading.

Same with the 757-300's. Waaaaaaay too long in the back of the 757-300 to work without a carpet. But if the break, which every now and then they do.......... Not fun. It took FOUR of us one time to unload when it did break and we had to get them from the bulk head to the door.

Though I have done 235 in Bin 3 of 757-300 on IAH-SEA.

And 120 in Bin 4 of a 757-300. Nothing in 1,2,or 3.

[Edited 2012-06-19 12:15:15]

[Edited 2012-06-19 12:17:13]
 
SXDFC
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RE: SWA Begins To Retire The 500

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting n471wn (Reply 37):
actually 150 300's are still in service at SWA!!

The OLDER -300s is what I should have said..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos