Btblue
Posts: 543
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:57 am

Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:36 pm

As subject:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/0...r-aer-lingus-idUKBRE85I19920120619

They have made an $880m bid for the Irish national carrier Aer Lingus. Currently breaking news.

Wonder is IAG will make a counter offer?

Ryanair are a 29% shareholder in Aer Lingus currently.

[Edited 2012-06-19 10:37:11]

[Edited 2012-06-19 10:37:33]
146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3979
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:53 pm

Well this is going to be interesting!

Quoting btblue (Thread starter):
Wonder is IAG will make a counter offer?

IAG have recently said they won't be doing any acquisitions in the near future - though this could tip their hand. I'd rather see IAG have the airline than Lufthansa Group or Air France/KLM, quite frankly.

Quoting btblue (Thread starter):
Ryanair are a 29% shareholder in Aer Lingus currently.

Indeed. Aer Lingus web site says they had €894.8m cash on hand at 31 December 2011... so I still believe the offer is low. The offer of €1.30 per share isn't bad, considering the share price of Aer Lingus has been floating around between €0.90 and €1.00 for quite a long time now.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 14483
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:55 pm

First the Euro 2012 loss, now this! 
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
Quoting btblue (Thread starter):
Ryanair are a 29% shareholder in Aer Lingus currently.

Indeed. Aer Lingus web site says they had €894.8m cash on hand at 31 December 2011... so I still believe the offer is low. The offer of €1.30 per share isn't bad, considering the share price of Aer Lingus has been floating around between €0.90 and €1.00 for quite a long time now.

This gives them enough leverage to veto any management decision to get Aer Lingus more profitable. But i doubt that the competition watchdog will let FR get the monopoly on traffic to and from Ireland.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
TeamintheSky
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:18 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:56 pm

Why is FR so keen on buying EI? Isn't this like the third time they are attempting to aquire?

I know EI isn't the full service carrier they once were, but I don't understand the benefit unless it is to simply take out Irish competition. For the country of Ireland, I sure hope your only option doesn't become FR!
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6, AT, US, AY, BE, EI, LG, AZ, 9W, SG, AA, JL, W6
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 14483
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 4):
Why is FR so keen on buying EI? Isn't this like the third time they are attempting to aquire?

IMHO it's the TATL routes, which are much easier to buy than set up on your own.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
Some rise, some fall, some climb, to get to Terrapin!
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 1957
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 4):
Why is FR so keen on buying EI? Isn't this like the third time they are attempting to aquire?

I dont see this going very far. It is quite clear that neither the EU, Irish nor UK competition authorities will allow this deal through. My guess is that Ryanair is looking to offload the stake and this is effectively putting cards on the table, it is now up to IAG, AF/KL, LH any middle eastern carrier that might be interested and other institutional investors to get involved.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3979
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:10 pm

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 4):
I know EI isn't the full service carrier they once were, but I don't understand the benefit unless it is to simply take out Irish competition. For the country of Ireland, I sure hope your only option doesn't become FR!

What gets me each time that Ryanair make a bid is that they promise that Aer Lingus will remain in its current form and that they will make the airline grow.

To me it makes sense, from the perspective that EI and FR serve completely different markets out of Ireland. Aer Lingus serve all the main airports throughout their European network, offer premium frills like Business Class across the Atlantic, lounge access and so on.

I don't see why they can't make contractual assurances to that effect and be bound to that.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 6):
I dont see this going very far. It is quite clear that neither the EU, Irish nor UK competition authorities will allow this deal through. My guess is that Ryanair is looking to offload the stake and this is effectively putting cards on the table, it is now up to IAG, AF/KL, LH any middle eastern carrier that might be interested and other institutional investors to get involved.

I tend to agree with you there. It may work out that some other airline group will offer even more money and then Ryanair can offload their stake with minimal losses. We shall see what happens.

Now I wait for the usual Irish media frenzy against Ryanair for this... for such a successful Irish company, they certainly are dragged through the dirt in the media. Though a lot of that, it has to be said, is as a result of their own strategy and marketing.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
KBJCpilot
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 7:12 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:14 pm

Time to sit back and watch the fireworks. This should be interesting.

Ryanair to the USA after buying Aer Lingus- talk about a miserable flight.
Samsonite, I was way off!
 
stlgph
Posts: 9176
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:16 pm

RyanAir is offering a 38.3% premium over today's closing stock value price.

Analysts tell me RyanAir believes Aer Lingus' current traffic of 9.5 million passengers can be 14 million 5 years after the merger.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8159
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Setting the transatlantic routes aside, I don't see what FR see in EI.

Bar the LHR routes, which I doubt FR would operate due to congestion hitting their precious on time figures, they can open routes to compete with EI and potentially knock them out of the route.

It does seem FR are keen to be the only nationa player out of Ireland, if this happens it's a great shame for the Irish traveller.
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 20147
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 7):
Now I wait for the usual Irish media frenzy against Ryanair for this... for such a successful Irish company, they certainly are dragged through the dirt in the media. Though a lot of that, it has to be said, is as a result of their own strategy and marketing.

Actually, that seems to be their marketing strategy; make as much negative press as possible because negative press=free press.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21309
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 10):
It does seem FR are keen to be the only nationa player out of Ireland, if this happens it's a great shame for the Irish traveller.

Indeed it would be a disaster and Id rather see FR threaten to cut more routes out of Ireland than see FR the monopoly after any take over. Anyway it wont happen they know it wont . It will be blocked by the powers that be. I just hope that FR sell their stake to another carrier that will enhance EI rather than disrupt or try to disrupt it .
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 4721
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 7):
What gets me each time that Ryanair make a bid is that they promise that Aer Lingus will remain in its current form and that they will make the airline grow.

That's what Ryanair promises now and it sounds great, I'd love to see a thriving Aer Lingus with passenger numbers hitting 14 million but with Ryanair in the driving seat you have to ask at what cost it would come for the airline, staff and passengers?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
I just hope that FR sell their stake to another carrier that will enhance EI rather than disrupt or try to disrupt it .

*cough* Etihad *cough*
 
kaitak
Posts: 9032
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:06 pm

It's just FR looking for notice; they know this hasn't a dog's chance of getting anywhere. The competition authorities won't wear it for a start; as it is, the British competition authority is looking into FR's existing holding in EI; I am just wondering what FR's gameplan is here. Is it trying to force someone's hand?

Just as a matter of interest, does anyone recall what FR paid for its EI shareholding (and the price per share) when it first bought it? How much would they lose at today's stock prices if they were forced to sell?
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:08 pm

God I hope that FR does NOT get EI. I could not stand to see Ryanair coming to the USA. It's exactly the same as if NK bought DL or UA.
 
User avatar
Mortyman
Posts: 4247
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:21 pm

Maybe FR can't stand the thought of DY going transatlantic first ....  
 
tonystan
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 10):
Bar the LHR routes, which I doubt FR would operate due to congestion hitting their precious on time figures, they can open routes to compete with EI and potentially knock them out of the route.

Truth of the matter is that FR have competed directly with EI on many routes yet EI seem to have remained!

The dedicated EI customer base cannot be underestimated in all of this. So much has been thrown at this little airline for so long yet they are still here and all things considered (especially with the economic situation in Ireland) they are doing pretty damn good right now.

We are right to question what MOL sees in EI because Im sure its something very good that perhaps we are missing. He wouldnt be interested otherwise....well except unless maybe is pride is making him do it and thats just not shrude business behaviour!  
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 7):
Now I wait for the usual Irish media frenzy against Ryanair for this... for such a successful Irish company, they certainly are dragged through the dirt in the media. Though a lot of that, it has to be said, is as a result of their own strategy and marketing.

I completely disagree. If anything, the denizens of the main papers seem to laud O'Leary as their little champion, and would only love to see a former state body sold off to teach those pesky workers a thing or two.

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 10):
Bar the LHR routes, which I doubt FR would operate due to congestion hitting their precious on time figures, they can open routes to compete with EI and potentially knock them out of the route.

The thing is it is EI who are giving FR a drubbing! EI just started ARN, and it's doing very well, while FR are having to strategically cancel certain underperforming sectors on the NYO route. FR continue to contract at DUB, while EI are opening new routes and growing. The Aer Lingus regional product is the perfect weapon to compete with FR on routes to the UK regions and Ryanair are feeling it.

Nobody has competed as viciously with FR for as long as EI - they know what they need to do.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 16):
Maybe FR can't stand the thought of DY going transatlantic first ....  

I dont think Ryanair really make any decisions with reference to Norwegian.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 17):
The dedicated EI customer base cannot be underestimated in all of this. So much has been thrown at this little airline for so long yet they are still here and all things considered (especially with the economic situation in Ireland) they are doing pretty damn good right now.

Public opinion is turning against FR - EI offers a product at a price point people can live with, and a product that pitches at a level sufficiently above FR that people find appealing. It gets rid of the worst "excesses" of FR like the boarding scrum, the "in your face" cabins etc etc while maintaining a legacy ethos in some areas. As FR get more expensive, the EI product becomes a better value proposition.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 12035
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 13):
*cough* Etihad *cough*

If this is a strategy to flush out a new bid, there would be worse partners to consider.


This is an interesting turn of events. I do not see the value of FR owning EI. I'll be watching the fireworks.  

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Eagleboy
Posts: 1700
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:29 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:01 pm

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 4):
Why is FR so keen on buying EI? Isn't this like the third time they are attempting to aquire?

-Eliminate the home opposition.
-Do it BEFORE the UK OFT forces FR to sell their share holding.
-Acquire the AOC for access to the US.
-Sell off/takeover the EI shorthaul network.
-Gain total dominance over the DUB owner (DAA)
-Feed pax from all over Europe in "Irelands new LCC T/A airline"
-Acquire the EI cash pile.
-Finally knock that chip of MoL's shoulder.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:14 pm

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 20):
Acquire the EI cash pile.

This is the most interesting part! EI have a cash pile of about 900m euros - so the bid actually values EI at less than zero!

Part of the reason for that is that FR's presence on the list of shareholders actually depresses the share price.

A buyer of EI gets 900m cash, a fleet of nearly 50 pretty new airbus aircraft, 24 daily slot pairs at LHR, slots at all of Europe's major airports in fact, plus an airline that has delivered solid profits when the economy of it's homeland is in the doldrums.

Pretty good deal - and exactly why it will not be accepted.
 
PoianaMarco
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:31 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:23 pm

Tell you the truth no matter what or where or when, I´d rather fly with FR instead EI. Hopefully FR will manage buying EI, in this way everyone is happy..  
The secret behind a good working day is happy guests and to know that you have been giving 110% and not just 100 of seri
 
jfk777
Posts: 5955
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 21):
A buyer of EI gets 900m cash, a fleet of nearly 50 pretty new airbus aircraft, 24 daily slot pairs at LHR, slots at all of Europe's major airports in fact, plus an airline that has delivered solid profits when the economy of it's homeland is in the doldrums.

Given the fact Ryannair owns 29% of Aer Lingus they are only out about 600m in cash, tey get 900m in cash and 24 LHR slots worh a 1,000,000,000 Dollars.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting PoianaMarco (Reply 22):
Tell you the truth no matter what or where or when, I´d rather fly with FR instead EI. Hopefully FR will manage buying EI, in this way everyone is happy..  

You are entitled to your opinion, but surely dont try to claim everybody is happy, because they most certainly are not.

Nobody sane wants a monopoly on air transport in an Island market.
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 14):
The competition authorities won't wear it for a start; as it is, the British competition authority is looking into FR's existing holding in EI
Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 6):
EU, Irish nor UK competition authorities will allow this deal through

Could someone explain to me what a potential FR acquisition of EI would have to do with UK competition authorities? (they're 2 Irish companies aren't they?). The EU/Irish I can understand, but I'm not getting the UK bit! Thanks in advance.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:43 pm

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 25):
Could someone explain to me what a potential FR acquisition of EI would have to do with UK competition authorities? (they're 2 Irish companies aren't they?). The EU/Irish I can understand, but I'm not getting the UK bit! Thanks in advance.

The view is that because the IRL / UK air travel market is so dominated by the two Irish airlines, that a lessening of competition has a detrimental effect on UK customers and so is then a concern for UK competition authorities.
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 26):
The view is that because the IRL / UK air travel market is so dominated by the two Irish airlines, that a lessening of competition has a detrimental effect on UK customers and so is then a concern for UK competition authorities.

OK thanks, I see. My initial thought about that is.......as the UK/Ireland market is a free one, UK based airlines are completely free to start any competing services they wish.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 4):
Why is FR so keen on buying EI? Isn't this like the third time they are attempting to aquire?

IMHO it's the TATL routes, which are much easier to buy than set up on your own.

What value do US-EU routes have? It's Open Skies. Any US or EU-based carrier can fly anywhere they want.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 27):
OK thanks, I see. My initial thought about that is.......as the UK/Ireland market is a free one, UK based airlines are completely free to start any competing services they wish.

Of course that is true. But the authorities know that this wont happen for a number of reasons:

1) BA co-operate with Aer lingus
2) BMI is no more
3) Virgin don't do short haul
4) EZY will not repeat their previous experience of competing with FR in Ireland because it was left with a bloody nose.

So really, there is nobody left on the UK side who will take up the challenge. On the Irish side, you have RE (Who are basically Aer Lingus now anyway) and Cityjet who are already a player in the market but pretty insignificant as things go.

There is already evidence to suggest that fares are increasing (very substantially).

UK competition authorities have already intervened in lesser situations (eg LCY-AMS route - which is just one route obviously - not an entire national market), so there is precedent for their involvement.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28):
What value do US-EU routes have? It's Open Skies. Any US or EU-based carrier can fly anywhere they want.

The thinking seems to be that people would run a mile from a Ryanair Flight across the Atlantic (understandable), and that as EI already enjoy recognition in the market, it is the right way to go.

I am not sure I agree with this, as FR can always set up another company with a new name if they want to start TATL ops.
 
User avatar
MillwallSean
Posts: 861
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:51 pm

Whats the point?
No matter what they offer the possible combination of Aer Lingus and Ryanair has already been turned down by the EU. They wont allow this to happen so the bid wont get off the ground.
It will probably give Ruanair heaps of free publicity though.

Speculation, might this have to do with the UK office of fair tradings expected verdict that would have forced Ryanair to sell their stocks in Aer Lingus?
A way to switch the debate from Ryanair fighting a court order to divest ownership to Ryanair being the company not allowed to purchase an incumbent?
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
greenjet
Posts: 869
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 9:59 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 21):
This is the most interesting part! EI have a cash pile of about 900m euros - so the bid actually values EI at less than zero!

Yes, but don't forget they would also pick up EI's debt and liabilities, etc. too. Finance lease obligations alone amounted to more than 575m euro as of 31 December 2011.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7199
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:42 am

Yet again FR throws EI into dissary and causes significant management time to be spent on fighting off an unwanted takeover plan, rather than on running an airline and competing against FR.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 31):
A way to switch the debate from Ryanair fighting a court order to divest ownership to Ryanair being the company not allowed to purchase an incumbent?

It all sounds like a temper tantrum. just wonder what St. Michaels real game plan is here.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 31):

No matter what they offer the possible combination of Aer Lingus and Ryanair has already been turned down by the EU. They wont allow this to happen so the bid wont get off the ground.

The EU and the UK government seem to be immune to MOL's bullying by media. I would go as far as saying that it actually backfires.

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 25):

Could someone explain to me what a potential FR acquisition of EI would have to do with UK competition authorities?

The UK - Ireland market is a huge one, and the UK competition authorities do not want to see a monopoly in this sector.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 33):
The EU and the UK government seem to be immune to MOL's bullying by media. I would go as far as saying that it actually backfires.

Indeed. You'd imagine he would have actually learned by now. Every time he challenges the EU, they find a way to make air fares more expensive, or disadvantage FR in some way. He needs to shut up for his own good.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7199
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:58 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 34):
He needs to shut up for his own good.

Nobody tells St Michael what to do, and that is his weakness.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2386
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 21):
A buyer of EI gets 900m cash...
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 23):
...tey get 900m in cash...

Let's not forget a pension funding deficit of 700+ million euros.

Quoting btblue (Thread starter):
Wonder is IAG will make a counter offer?
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
...though this could tip their hand.

Despite Walsh's comments regarding EI, I also hope for IAG intervention.   
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2110
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:36 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 36):
Let's not forget a pension funding deficit of 700+ million euros.

Aer Lingus have NO contractual obligation to pay into that fund - no matter what it's staff may think.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:15 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
First the Euro 2012 loss, now this!

  but the problem is, what would come from the combined airline?

Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 8):
Ryanair to the USA after buying Aer Lingus- talk about a miserable flight.

Wait a second, would the combined airline be a low-cost carrier? In comparison on routes, how much does EI charge in comparison to FR?

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 20):
-Eliminate the home opposition.

I'm not familiar with Ireland (besides my birth-grandmother hailing from there) but do they have anti-trust laws there ?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
GIANCAVIA
Posts: 906
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:45 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 35):

Nobody tells St Michael what to do, and that is his weakness.

What weakness is it, Remind me the last time Ryanair lost money. They are rolling in it because of him.. dudes an ass but he has no weakness.
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:47 am

IF it is the intention to finally start A TATL low price network, then Ireland has the best location you can think of. You can reach all of the US using fully packed A333 currently, and MAX/NEO in 10 years for the east coast, with fuel per passenger unheared of. So I think 880Mio really is too low for the 71%, 1.2Bio are more realistic as value. Of course, neither IAG nor AFKL nor LH are keen to invest a billion currently, and no non-EU carrier will take a minority (majority is not allowed) in an airline that is already with 29% in FR hands.

If the market wants it, I doubt that the regulators will comletely stop this. They will give some ruling that makes it easier for other European airlines to fly Ireland-UK, but that's it I expect. In the end, there is no place in Europe for more than 3 network carriers and 3 Low cost carriers ( plus a few specialists). Concentration will go on.
 
User avatar
anfromme
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:30 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 7):
Now I wait for the usual Irish media frenzy against Ryanair for this... for such a successful Irish company, they certainly are dragged through the dirt in the media.

Couldn't disagree more. Remember the whole Hangar 6 farce?
It was a long time until I saw the first reports in Irish media questioning Ryanair's supposedly well-meaning (job creation) motives behind the attempt to bully Aer Lingus out of that building. Actually, FR's strategy at the time relied heavily on the media, who conveniently ignored quite a few factors. (Such as that FR had previously passed on an opportunity to get a lease of the hangar and was now trying to change this after the fact.)
It's a pattern that's frequently observable whenever the media deal with FR/MOL. They seem to love O'Leary's soundbites too much to start asking questions. Some in the media even go so far as hypothesising about how well Ireland would be off if MOL were running the country.


Overall, I feel that Ryanair and Micheal O'Leary get a lot of air time and column space to promote their take on things, with relatively little questioning going on.


Personally, I think that being profitable/commercially successful isn't sufficient justification for anything and everything. Not even in a recession.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 7):
Though a lot of that, it has to be said, is as a result of their own strategy and marketing.

That's the whole thing about them, isn't it?


As you may gather from the above, I am opposed to an EI takeover by FR.
Having said that, I do think that this third attempt is a mix between a publicity stunt and potentially an effort to get rid of their stake in EI at a good price.
So in the coming weeks/months we'll see Aer Lingus themselves and the Irish government opposing the takeover, Ryanair in turn playing a bit of PR cat and mouse with the government. General line being how it's unfair and biased that the government won't sell their share to Ryanair at a point when they need the money and they've also agreed (under the terms of the EU/IMF bailout) to sell their stake in EI.
In the end, Etihad or a European airline group are going to acquire a majority share in EI, accompanied by FR selling their stake under much public swearing and cussing about how they've been continuously treated unfairly, don't see this changing any time soon, so they see no reason to hold on to their share in EI any more, and good riddance, because EI and their new parent are sure to fail anyway.
As to who'll end up taking the government's and Ryanair's shares - besides Etihad (who already acquired 3% rather quietly), BA/IB would come to mind. Their route overlap with EI is minimal; most of the UK-IE operations are only offered under a codeshare operated by EI, not BA.

[Edited 2012-06-20 01:48:42]

[Edited 2012-06-20 01:50:31]
42
 
B738FlyUIA
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:20 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:30 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
IMHO it's the TATL routes, which are much easier to buy than set up on your own.

That would for TATL only or within Europe also?
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7199
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:33 am

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 39):
But he has no weakness.

Someone with no weakness? Really? Is St Michael God or something?

Ryanair is bigger than O'Leary, and the company will survive without him. He runs the company with an Iron fist and has made mistakes.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3129
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 13):*cough* Etihad *cough*
If this is a strategy to flush out a new bid, there would be worse partners to consider.

Once again we have people suggesting non EU buyers for EU airlines, regulations prevent any non EU airline owning a majority stake, this leaves them with lots of of money invested in an airline where they can exert little control. If the airline provides a strategic link which cannot otherwise be acheived it might be worth the hassle, but where would this get Etihad ? onto short haul routes that are of no use to them, and a fe wlong haul flights to places they can fly directly to anyway. Just look at SQ, lots of money tied up in a 49% stake in VS and nothing but a huge book loss to show for it.

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 25):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 14): The competition authorities won't wear it for a start; as it is, the British competition authority is looking into FR's existing holding in EIQuoting BrianDromey (Reply 6): EU, Irish nor UK competition authorities will allow this deal throughCould someone explain to me what a potential FR acquisition of EI would have to do with UK competition authorities? (they're 2 Irish companies aren't they?). The EU/Irish I can understand, but I'm not getting the UK bit! Thanks in advance.

The UK can look at it from the perspective of flights made to UK airports, however as FR have no operational control over EI there's nothing for the competition authorities to look at at present. If FR did buy there's probably still nothiong to look at as the two airlines have little or no overlap. EI's 24 slot pairs at LHR have been mentioned, as FR have no slot pairs at LHR thats definitely of no concern to the authorities, and all FR's flights to London are to airports where slots are freely available.
Of course FR wouldn't need all these slot pairs at LHR if they took over EI, unless BA continued to code share, which seems a little unlikely.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16026
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:09 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 43):
He runs the company with an Iron fist and has made mistakes.

Of course he has made mistakes. Who hasn't? One is not being more aggressive to his revenue team to increase ancillary revenue on a per-passenger basis, which for Ryanair was only $14.74 (converted from €) in 2011 compared with, say, $21.21 for easyJet, $30.79 for Jet2, $16.44 for Norwegian, $25.41 for AirAsia (Malaysia), $15.57 for AirAsia (Indonesia), $22 for Jetstar (Australia), $16.09 for Tiger (Singapore), $34 for Allegiant, and $45.99 for Spirit.

  

[Edited 2012-06-20 05:10:51]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3129
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 45):
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 43):He runs the company with an Iron fist and has made mistakes.
Of course he has made mistakes. Who hasn't? One is not being more aggressive to his revenue team to increase ancillary revenue on a per-passenger basis, which for Ryanair was only $14.74 (converted from €) in 2011 compared with, say, $21.21 for easyJet, $30.79 for Jet2, $16.44 for Norwegian, $25.41 for AirAsia (Malaysia), $15.57 for AirAsia (Indonesia), $22 for Jetstar (Australia), $16.09 for Tiger (Singapore), $34 for Allegiant, and $45.99 for Spirit.


Perhaps he has been too aggressive with the revenue team, there is a limit to what passengers will pay for ancillary items, in particular the baggage charge, this has now reached such a level that passengers really do look at not taking a checked in bag, or seek another carrier which charges less. The latest being a £20 surcharge for bags carried in the summer. As it is FR charge twice what U2 do to carry a bag. Charge a reasonable fee and the ancilalry revenue will probably go up, same applies to catering, pronting out boarding passes etc.
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16026
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:44 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 46):
Perhaps he has been too aggressive with the revenue team


I understand what you said - charge less and your total revenue will increase, which assumes, of course, sufficient price-elasticity. Still, your argument focuses purely upon a la carte pricing - yet does not mention all-important commission-based components.

It seems pretty clear to me that FR's per-person ancillary revenue could, and should, increase - especially when many other LCCs, including some in developing countries, generate far more.

That I put  rotfl  at the end of my previous post means it was a tongue-in-cheek comment and I'm sure you'll agree that this isn't the thread for discussing the matter further.  Smile

[Edited 2012-06-20 05:53:15]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:48 pm

No country should have a cheap LCC as its national airline. Solely on those grounds I wouldn't like to see FR buy out EI.

Ei isn't the best airline in the world but at least it has a good, positive, if not professional, image.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
User avatar
anfromme
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm

RE: Ryanair Makes $880m Cash Bid For Aer Lingus

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:57 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 44):
Of course FR wouldn't need all these slot pairs at LHR if they took over EI, unless BA continued to code share, which seems a little unlikely.

I'd say that an FR-owned EI could say good-bye to pretty much all of its major code-shares, i.e. BA, KL and UA. Only the codeshare with B6 might have a slight chance of surviving in my view. Considering the revenue these are generating for EI (according to their CEO), that would be a most undesirable outcome and significantly weaken EI.
42

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos