CRJ900X
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Bombardier CSeries Update

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:15 pm

An interesting article from the Financial Post regarding the testing for the Bombardier CSeries. The article also discusses the change in forecast of delivery of airliners for the next twenty years from Bombardier.

Link: http://business.financialpost.com/20...-forecast-over-economic-headwinds/

It appears that the CSeries program is progressing quite well so far, but a lot can change as the plane starts to take shape.

Hopefully the first flight will take place at the end of 2012 as planned.

I am also hoping that at least some of the LOI's (Atlasjet & IFC) firm up their options by/at the Farnborough Air Show. As others have previously stated on the forum, airlines seem to be taking a wait-and-see approach and holding off ordering the plane to see if it delivers on all promises.

Cheers,
CRJ900X
 
connies4ever
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:38 pm

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
Link: http://business.financialpost.com/20...-forecast-over-economic-headwinds/

It appears that the CSeries program is progressing quite well so far, but a lot can change as the plane starts to take shape.

Interesting. I am guessing that with BBD's previous experience managing a global supply chain for the GX family, they have sidestepped at least some of the issues that snagged Boeing on the 787.

I, too, hope for an on-time and successful first flight in December. I believe that may well crystallize some current options or generate new ones. Farnborough will be interesting to watch as well.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
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mad99
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:23 am

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
Hopefully the first flight will take place at the end of 2012 as planned.

I think you'll see a roll out by the end of the year but no flight.
 
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lollomz
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:27 am

It seems that one new plane will be in time..... we'll what will happen about delays.
[url="http://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/collection/Lollomz"]Image[/url]
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:21 am

Who has ordered it? Aside from frontier.
 
r2rho
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:21 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 2):
I think you'll see a roll out by the end of the year but no flight.

Agree. If their CIASTA test facility has not started testing yet, no way there's a first flight in 2012. Unless all the system suppliers have done an extraordinarily good job to deliver everything at the right maturity level and have been managed by BBD in a significantly better way than A&B do with theirs. And even then, it's unlikely. But roll out in 2012 and first flight Q1 2013 seems possible if system testing does indeed start in july.
 
queb
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:51 am

1:1 wood mock-up

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7082/7404252244_6535881ae0_b.jpg
 
columba
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:23 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 4):
Who has ordered it? Aside from frontier.

Lufthansa, but the aircraft are supposed to be for Swiss to replace their Avro fleet
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
queb
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:54 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 4):
Who has ordered it? Aside from frontier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bombardier_CSeries_orders
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 6):
1:1 wood mock-up

A year ago I would have suggested get rid of 1:1 wook mock-ups. But after solving an issue where precision in the wood mock-up allowed a team to *really* understand how the issue arose (coupled with CATIA on our laptops as we inspected the wood model) really helped.

Lightsaber
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 4):
Who has ordered it? Aside from frontier.

Frontier did not order the C Series. Republic Airways Holdings holds the order and has said it is not going to be operated by F9.

We can talk all day about the original intent of the order or the merits (lack thereof) of Republic having a c series order, but that's for a different discussion.
Good goes around!
 
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mad99
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:08 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
1:1 wook mock-ups

i'm told the'll use this for training.
 
MEA330
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:23 am

Korean Air have also ordered the C Series

[Edited 2012-06-21 01:24:25]
 
BE77
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting queb (Reply 6):
wood mock-up

[

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
after solving an issue where precision in the wood mock-up allowed a team to *really* understand how the issue arose
Quoting mad99 (Reply 11):
i'm told the'll use this for training.

I can so easily see the value in this mock up. Excellent tool I am sure. I am in a completely different industry, and work in 3D modeling software all the time. But, when it comes time to explain things and to get people's heads wrapped around it, there are times where a physical model is just so useful. In the bad old days, there would be a 1:120 (1 inch = 10 feet) or 1:600 model in the conference room or lobby that was kept up to date by the local woodcarver / retired employee / high school shop teacher or whoever, and that model would be used regularly by planners and techies to explain to everyone what was going to be done. Now that I am one of the techies, there are days where I really wish we had such models, as it is usually more work to get the message accross using a printout or screen than it would be on a model. Some places are even using virtual immersive 3D or the 3D TV technology which help, but is still not quite the same as the model.
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Aloha717200
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting CRJ900X (Thread starter):
airlines seem to be taking a wait-and-see approach and holding off ordering the plane to see if it delivers on all promises.

787 effect?
 
planemaker
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:33 pm

So far, this account of the CSeries briefing by Leehamnews seems to be the best available: De-risking CSeries but margin is gone.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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mad99
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:42 am

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 14):
briefing by Leehamnews

Thanks for that.

Shenyang is a big problem for bd
 
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ADent
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:29 am

Don't forget that the CRJ-1000 was a year late.
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:19 am

Quoting mad99 (Reply 16):
Shenyang is a big problem for bd

Based on what? Not on the article quoted, as far as I can tell.

Quoting ADent (Reply 17):
Don't forget that the CRJ-1000 was a year late.

That is true. I believe it was almost solely because of one problem with the rudder FBW, and I don't think they were putting nearly the resources into it that they would be for the CSeries, but that just goes to show how easily these things can slip.

I think it will be interesting to see. I can't bring myself to believe that it will fly in 2012, but these days it seems that if it's anything less than a year later, that would still be amazing!

JL
Next flight.... who knows.
 
queb
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:23 pm

Picture of fwd fuse assembly line (Saint-Laurent facility in Montreal). Three already assembled:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5272/7420473036_5e80254173_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bombard...7420473036/sizes/l/in/photostream/
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
But after solving an issue where precision in the wood mock-up allowed a team to *really* understand how the issue arose (coupled with CATIA on our laptops as we inspected the wood model) really helped.

Not much precision in the mock-up, so probably not aimed at resolving DMU clashes.

Quoting mad99 (Reply 11):
i'm told the'll use this for training.

That makes sense. Judged by the presence of wooden assembly tooling, I'd guess this is for sorting out the final assembly process and for training FAL mechanics.
 
ferpe
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 19):
Picture of fwd fuse assembly line (Saint-Laurent facility in Montreal). Three already assembled:

I just don't get it, for the C series we see barebone forward fuselages, empty jigs and a wooden mockup + a system rig and this frame shall fly before end of year. For the A350 we see a 2/3 system equipped MSN001 forward section, we know where all other MSN001 sections are, we've seen then being produced and they are in system equipping since 4 months and this frame will fly next summer   .

Whatever Bombardier is saying it does not jive with me.
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GregsterYUL
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:13 am

I was at YMX today and Bombardier has started work on building new hangers at the CRJ plant..

I wonder if the first test flight will be from YUL or YMX? Bombardier is also still working on software and a flight simulator..
 
RickNRoll
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:31 am

Quoting queb (Reply 6):
1:1 wood mock-up

Complete with wood scaffolding.
 
queb
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting GregsterYUL (Reply 22):
I wonder if the first test flight will be from YUL or YMX?

YMX of course. The prototype a/c will be assembled in a temporary FAL aside of the wood mock-up:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8026/7404252830_da0fcd646f_b.jpg
 
ckfred
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:43 pm

A year or two ago during an earnings call, then AMR CEO Gerard Arpey made some favorable comments about the C-Series. That surprised a lot of people, because the rumor was that AMR was "kicking the tires" on the larger Embrears (170 through 195).

Granted, this was before the bankruptcy filing and Horton replacing Arpey. But, I would assume that BBD has pitched the C-Series to AMR, and the pitch got some positive feedback. Assuming that AMR exits Chapter 11 as a separate carrier, an order for C-Series aircraft wouldn't be surprising.
 
Dash9
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting GregsterYUL (Reply 22):
I wonder if the first test flight will be from YUL or YMX? Bombardier is also still working on software and a flight simulator..

The C will be built in YMX. The only way to do a first flight from YUL would be to ferry the aircraft on a truck up to YUL, quite unlikely.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:03 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 20):
Not much precision in the mock-up, so probably not aimed at resolving DMU clashes.

The wood mockups I've worked with have the steel or aluminum mockup parts incorporated where precision is required. They end up being about half wood by weight.   

So we were actually using the 'wooden mockup' to solve an actuator issue that we suspected would happen when we changed one damper for one better tuned to the aircraft's "shalls". But that is why we had the CATIA on our laptops. (Hand actuating parts isn't the same as 'in flight' motion.)

Quoting ckfred (Reply 25):
Assuming that AMR exits Chapter 11 as a separate carrier, an order for C-Series aircraft wouldn't be surprising.

As much as I love the idea of that scenario, I believe hindsight shows us the C-series was just used for a better deal on the A319s. (Probably in delivery slots... "beat the C-series or...") This doesn't mean zero chance for the C-series, but the chance is very low until the A319 leases expire (IIRC, starting in 2023).

Lightsaber
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ckfred
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
As much as I love the idea of that scenario, I believe hindsight shows us the C-series was just used for a better deal on the A319s. (Probably in delivery slots... "beat the C-series or...") This doesn't mean zero chance for the C-series, but the chance is very low until the A319 leases expire (IIRC, starting in 2023).

Let's assume that the A319s are configured for around 125 to 130 seats (below the MD-80 at 140 and well below the newer configuration for the 738 at 160 seats). That leaves a big gap between the CRJ700 at the current 65 seats. If AA or Eagle (depending on the final scope clause with APA) were to order the 100-seat version of the C-Series, that would basically fit where the F100 used to be. Except the C-Series, from what I understand, can fly the very short hops that the F100 had difficulty with.
 
planemaker
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:54 pm

There is a new article in AW&ST - "Bombardier Races To Keep CSeries On Schedule". As we get closer to Farnborough there might be an increase in articles speculating on the schedule and the order book.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 28):
If AA or Eagle (depending on the final scope clause with APA) were to order the 100-seat version of the C-Series, that would basically fit where the F100 used to be. Except the C-Series, from what I understand, can fly the very short hops that the F100 had difficulty with.

Interesting concept... Let me think on that. I do see a need for a hundred seater at AA. Bombardier needs to have the CS100 out proving itself or the competition would go by default to the E-jets (E-190 or E-195 depending on AA layout).


Lightsaber
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BD500
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:45 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 25):
A year or two ago during an earnings call, then AMR CEO Gerard Arpey made some favorable comments about the C-Series. That surprised a lot of people, because the rumor was that AMR was "kicking the tires" on the larger Embrears (170 through 195).

I saw an article dated June 22 from Flightglobal (Stephen Trimble), but cannot find on their site, it seems the CSeries is not considered for the 100 seats segments.
I'm surprised to see that the MRJ is in the list, because it still is in devlopment, and the EIS is still far away.

From the article:
American Airlines parent AMR Corp has listed aircraft built by Bombardier, Embraer and Mitsubishi as candidates for a fleet of larger regional jets it seeks to operate after emerging from bankruptcy with relaxed scope clause restrictions.

In the category between 79 and 118 seats, American's term sheet includes the E190/E195, CRJ1000 and MRJ-100. The latter is a proposed derivative of the MRJ family still in development.

American Airlines also described a proposal for scope clause relief in the category below 79 seats, and listed "aircraft such as CRJ900, E170/175 MRJ70-90, or comparable aircraft".

By moving to larger aircraft, AMR's strategy is to spread the fuel cost over a larger number of seats.

The term sheet confirms that American is considering several types of aircraft for its potential future regional fleet, including new entrants such as Mitsubishi. The list is not comprehensive, but notable excludes the AVIC ARJ21, Bombarderier CS100 and Superjet SSJ100.
 
ckfred
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:05 am

BD500,

Very interesting. The reason I remember Arpey's comments so well was that AA took forever to put in its order for 787s (which still doesn't confirm until AA has a contract with APA). Arpey commented that AA wasn't about to be a launch customer for a new airplane. Pilots I know at AA started commenting that AA was a early customer for the 707, 727, 767, DC-10, and MD-11, so they were irked that Arpey was dragging his heels on getting AA into Boeing's order book.

So, when Arpey made the comments about the C-Series, pilots were dumbfounded. Arpey didn't want to jump onto the 787 bandwagon, even though AA has always been happy with Boeing aircraft, but he was intrigued by the C-Series, even though Eagle had some issues with the CRJ 700. At the time, everyone assumed that Eagle (or AA, or both) would order some combination of the Embrear 170/175/190/195.

Personally, I wouldn't rule out a C-Series order from AMR, despite what is being published, only because a year ago, no one thought AA would even consider ordering anymore Airbuses after all of the issues that AA had with the A300 and the long-term deal that AA had with Boeing.
 
bahadir
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:35 am

RAH has a shareholders meeting on Aug 1st. I think the questions about soon to be released scope at AMR and C series orders will come up during that.. Let's see what happens.
Earthbound misfit I
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:33 am

Quoting bahadir (Reply 33):
RAH has a shareholders meeting on Aug 1st. I think the questions about soon to be released scope at AMR and C series orders will come up during that.. Let's see what happens.

Keep us posted. No offense, but I'll be very interested to see what Bedford says about this, if much at all.

Edit: And as far as RAH's CSeries order, B.Bedford seems to be pulling at strings...US major airline scope clauses for pilots prohibit the CSeries, while F9 already has the A3xNEO's. So, Bedford's solution seems to be to offer an entirely
new product...a regional airline for an ALLIANCE, not just an airline. I can't quote the source anymore, but, I think it might appear on previous CSeries threads on a.net. Basically, get around pilot scope by flying for Star, SkyTeam, etc, instead of Delta, UA, AA, or UA.

[Edited 2012-06-26 23:56:02]
 
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mad99
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:36 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
They end up being about half wood by weight

this one is all wood, no smoking in or near!

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 20):
training FAL mechanics.

that's what i'm told
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:21 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
Interesting concept... Let me think on that.

In the US, only Republic is considering the CSeries. Republic is now grasping at new ideas to make their 40-strong CSeries order work. Why?

I don't even want to begin why, but the US airline industry has begun a race towards lowest-bidding regionals. For some reason, the CSeries seems to be synonymous with every other Bombardier REGIONAL product. Forget that the -ER's will have US Transcon range and even TATL range in certain configs. It's still a BombardierC.

Basically, to sum up BD500 and ckfred, I think that scope clauses in the US are too volatile right now to accurately assess scope or anything right now. AA probably thinks that it could operate a current E190 for cheaper than AA pilots could currently operate a CS100/300 under their current contract, and are thus evaluating the differences. I'm sure that DL has or is doing the same with slightly different parameters....how would a mainline 717 under current DC-9 payscales operate 2x day for a current 70 seat 3x market....or shuttle 6x DCA-JFK....etc...etc....no limits...how about new routes ATL-DEN or ATL-LAX more freq....? Ok, maybe gate space would become a factor in the later, but really.

The US regional model is failing, and will continue to fail. I don't know the time-frame or rate, but it will continue to fail. If AA or any other regional continues to rely upon the current model, then failure is imminent.

What makes the US regional airline model viable in the future? This will answer any questions....
 
planemaker
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:35 am

Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 36):
AA probably thinks that it could operate a current E190 for cheaper than AA pilots could currently operate a CS100/300 under their current contract

I would have guessed that AA would be looking at the CRJ1000.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:00 am

This is NOT a regional aircraft, and should NOT be flown by US regional carriers.

http://media.bombardiercms.com/cseries/medias/cseries/galleries/cseries_download_low_en_cs014.jpg

http://media.bombardiercms.com/cseries/medias/gallery/cs300CustomerImages/low/06.jpg

http://media.bombardiercms.com/cseries/medias/cseries/galleries/cseries_download_low_en_cs011.jpg
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:15 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 37):

I would have guessed that AA would be looking at the CRJ1000.

I have no idea what AA execs are currently looking at, but the CRJ1000 currently busts the AA pilot contract. And why wouldn't the CR9 come first during contract negotiations?

But, I see your point, that if any larger RJ comes, then it would be the CR9 or 10 first. Why not? But then, scope, scope, and scope. Why is the CSeries so contingent upon scope too? It should fall clearly in the "mainline" category. Why not fly 4x CR10 to XXX instead of 3x CSX?

Continue the speculation! But, I think that the Regional model in the US is failing. Please provide me with successful examples if you think otherwise.
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:20 am

I should make it clear that I'm talking specifically about US regional carriers.

Continue discussion about CSeries developments, and sorry for any confusion. To summarize my posts, I don't feel that the CSeries is meant for the current US regional model. But for some reason, speculation by many airline publications and a.net members relies upon the entry of CSeries into the US market via regional airlines and and the relaxation of US major airline pilot scope clauses. I ask why? To rely upon concessionary contractual negotions (AA) or any other contractual negotiations (other US legacy carriers) for the introduction of a new, efficient aircraft model to a nation is absurd.
 
r2rho
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:17 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 21):
For the A350 we see a 2/3 system equipped MSN001 forward section, we know where all other MSN001 sections are, we've seen then being produced and they are in system equipping since 4 months and this frame will fly next summer. Whatever Bombardier is saying it does not jive with me.

Indeed, the communication strategies of the A350 (very open) and CSeries (secrecy) are complete opposites. Hopefully the lack of CSeries news means that there is no news, but today it is impossible for an outsider to make a knowlodgeable guess on the true status of the program, as we are doing on A350. Unfortunately for us anetters, this means we cannot have CSeries production threads like the highly interesting A350 ones  

My personal opinion remains that if in-house systems integration testing is not starting until july, no way there is 1st flight by end of the year - I expect a 6 month delay.

As for the sales side, the AWST article confirms an impression that many of us have:

"Some customers and Air Lease Corp. Chairman/CEO Steven Udvar-Hazy have urged Bombardier to adopt more aggressive sales tactics and mainline practices such as significant discounting and more extensive performance guarantees. One airline executive says Bombardier also must give its sales staff more freedom in negotiations rather than forcing them to play by a relatively strict rulebook."

BBD seems to be following a very conservative sales policy, which is hurting not only the CSeries (the Q400 is being hammered by the ATR). IMO, BBD should temporarily "swallow its pride" on the CSeries and let themselves get MOL-style "raped" a bit, to give the program some sales momentum. More sales would help generate more sales after them.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 41):

Their sales policy reflects the state of the program at the moment. They probably offered good deals on the current sales to kick start the program then adopted a more conservative approach.

They have no reason to push their sales right now with first flight so close...and who's going to buy now, knowing within a year they will have real world data on the plane's performance and BBD's production abilities.

An airline purchase is a decades long commitment...I don't think many customers really mind waiting a little while longer. Udvar-Hazy is just doing what Al-Baker loves to do; negotiating in public.

Most of the first 3 years production is already filled so there's really no rush. It's not like a customer is going to get a 319 or 73G any sooner.

Bombardier has absolutely no reason to be worried at this point. They can afford to wait for sales. They have very deep pockets, lots of cash in the bank and billions more on the books.

Last year, pundits were sounding the death knells for the Q400 and CRJ's...this year is much better and both programs are still very much alive. They are number one in biz jets and trains, which can float the commercial division along for quite some time if need be.

If sales suck in 5 years, then there's a problem...until then, it's much too early to worry about the CSeries.

On the other hand, more news would be nice.
What the...?
 
BD500
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:15 am

I just saw a video from the cockpit with the Swiss CSeries pilot.
It seems to be a very unique flight deck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9KxdNvIFf8&feature=em-subs_digest
 
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lollomz
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting BD500 (Reply 43):
I just saw a video from the cockpit with the Swiss CSeries pilot.
It seems to be a very unique flight deck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9KxdNvIFf8&feature=em-subs_digest

Very interesting video, thanks for the link!
[url="http://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/collection/Lollomz"]Image[/url]
 
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copa330200
Posts: 173
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 42):
If sales suck in 5 years, then there's a problem...until then, it's much too early to worry about the CSeries.

  

Quoting BD500 (Reply 43):

great video   

no doubt this will be a great airplane for pasangers and pilots  
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lightsaber
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 36):
Basically, to sum up BD500 and ckfred, I think that scope clauses in the US are too volatile right now to accurately assess scope or anything right now.

I've thought about your concept and realized that besides obviously turning scope clauses on their ear, it would be a *huge* competitive advantage to the first airline that allowed the CS100 to be treated as "TCON RJs." It seems like a great idea for SQ and a few others too...

Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 38):
This is NOT a regional aircraft, and should NOT be flown by US regional carriers.

The the airline unions need to be a bit more flexible. I'm tired of seeing the 'majors' run through bankruptcy.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 42):
Udvar-Hazy is just doing what Al-Baker loves to do; negotiating in public.

Most of the first 3 years production is already filled so there's really no rush.

Hey, its worked for Al-Baker adn Udvar-Hazy doesn't quite have as deep of pockets backing him at the moment.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 42):
If sales suck in 5 years, then there's a problem...until then, it's much too early to worry about the CSeries.

100% agree. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be happy to see a few more orders. The C-series will be my #1 interest on the reports from Farnborough; Could they please change it to the 'London Air show' so I do not have to look up the spelling. PLEASE!

To think, I first had friends at Pratt working the engine for the BRX in 1999... Now if my mole at Bombardier would loosen up and have a beer and tell me more of what is happening on the C-series!    Instead, he's being very respectful of his NDA... Where are his priorities.  

Lightsaber
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point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 34):
So, Bedford's solution seems to be to offer an entirely
new product...a regional airline for an ALLIANCE, not just an airline.

I don't really know if this is public or private info, or just something floating around here on a.net. But as a matter of discussion, I don't quite see how this could make sense or be possible. And the big problem would be F9.

SInce we know that Bedford's intention to "spin-off" F9..... if there is a buyer (or whatever the term would be for the one to give $$$ for F9, so I'll use that term) to be found...... well...... the first thing that this buyer (as a matter of due diligence) would put into the contract is a non-compete clause. After all, assuming that someone would eventually buy F9 in whatever form this "spin-off" would entail, why would they then afterwards want to find themselves in competition with Bedford and RAH?

And that's why I see a big problem with this.



 
 
planemaker
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:39 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 42):
Most of the first 3 years production is already filled so there's really no rush. It's not like a customer is going to get a 319 or 73G any sooner.

I think that it is a bit more complex than it may appear and one has to dig a bit deeper.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 42):
Bombardier has absolutely no reason to be worried at this point. They can afford to wait for sales.

I wouldn't say that BBD "has absolutely no reason to be worried." I believe that BBD is very concerned. And I think that it isn't that they can afford to wait for sales but that they have no choice.

Quoting point2point (Reply 47):
I don't really know if this is public or private info, or just something floating around here on a.net. But as a matter of discussion, I don't quite see how this could make sense or be possible. And the big problem would be F9.

A quick google...

Businessweek

Quote:
The CEO of feeder airline operator Republic Airways said on Wednesday that new Bombardier jets could be flown in the U.S. in a partnership with one of the big airline alliances.
Montreal Gazette

Quote:
Regional carrier Republic feeds mainliners Delta and United, and Bedford said the CSeries ”could fit into a global alliance as (a low-cost carrier) component to a broader North American strategy for a SkyTeam or Star or oneworld.”

The CSeries will now be flown by Republic itself, not by Frontier, he added.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
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RE: Bombardier CSeries Update

Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 48):
A quick google...

Okay, I believe you now, and I believed it then.....

However, the basic elements of my post above still remain. I just don't see how any buyer of F9 is going to allow Republic to compete with them in this manner, if they are even half-way competent buyers. Of course, we do not know how Republic is going to "spin-off" F9 or what that will involve, but if future conditions were to be such that F9 is sold stand-alone as an airline that will continue operations, and Republic will have no further interests in F9, I think that you can see my point, yes?

I don't claim to know everything.... or really sometimes anything for that matter..... but my personal feeling here is Bedford/RAH are somehow blowing a lot of smoke here.......


 



[Edited 2012-07-01 10:37:08]