ZKOJH
Topic Author
Posts: 1446
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:25 am

Right everyone lets kick start number -116 - 'cleared for take off runway 23R.....'

In number 115 we looked at many topics including;

* 787 updates and seating ideas
* Snow in CHC and how it effects flights
* NZ and ANA to increase code-share
* Bali flight starts
* NZ looking at Extra flights to the US
* ATR 72-600 updates
* Extra planes (77W's) to be ordered for NZ?
* JQ to take over the SIN route from Jetstar Asia.
* UA cancel IAH - AKL before they even start

and the breaking news

Also welcome back ''NZ1''

NEW CEO of ANZ from JAN 2013 is Christopher Luxon

[Edited 2012-06-19 17:28:46]

[Edited 2012-06-19 17:31:59]

[Edited 2012-06-19 17:33:35]
Vietnam time..
 
cchan
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 8:54 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Thread starter):
Extra planes (77W's) to be ordered for NZ?

While I hope they do, this doesn't look likely. NZ seems to be more focused on the 787 line.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3218
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:32 am

Two of the above bullet points:

Quoting ZKOJH (Thread starter):
* NZ looking at Extra flights to the US

And…

Quoting ZKOJH (Thread starter):
* UA cancel IAH - AKL before they even start

Are very closely related. As I see it, the latter is mostly what's caused the former and NZ want to make sure AA or DL dont get any ideas, particularly with QF out of the picture. But they need to watch the back door for EZ too.
come visit the south pacific
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:47 am

Are the 744s not being used on trans tasman anymore? Was looking at a flight in DEC to BNE and wanted to try get on a 744
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:30 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):

Not as I'm aware of.. Only when they're short/something goes tech. 77W usually goes to MEL and 772 usually goes to BNE.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
byronicle6
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:38 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:34 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):

It does still seem to be operating, but very rarely. I'm also looking at flights to BNE in April and looks like its operating the morning flight on Thursdays and Saturdays during parts of April, but lots of other months looks like its not operating at all, and instead the BNE flights a mixture of 77W, 772 & A320
Travel is my thing
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:37 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 3):
Are the 744s not being used on trans tasman anymore? Was looking at a flight in DEC to BNE and wanted to try get on a 744

There is a 744 most Saturdays started last week on NZ135/136 AKL-BNE-AKL runs into September, remember there are only 2 in the fleet and they can't be everywhere although Tuesday through Friday both are usually parked at AKL. There is a few some weeks to SYD and MEL loaded through the summer schedule in between the daily SFO run making utilization quite high.

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 5):
I'm also looking at flights to BNE in April and looks like its operating the morning flight on Thursdays and Saturdays during parts of April

Thats a defualt schedule, its always says that, it may or may not actually happen.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 2):
As I see it, the latter is mostly what's caused the former and NZ want to make sure AA or DL dont get any ideas, particularly with QF out of the picture.

AKL is said to be chasing another US carrier, AA from DFW or LAX or DL from ATL or LAX??
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:41 am

New Safety video on youtube, what do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmcFKtzcKbQ
 
ZKOJH
Topic Author
Posts: 1446
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:32 am

Think AA have said they won't fly to either SYD or AKL so that would only leave a bid from Delta now that could be nice? a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.

And WHAT is with the new safety video, ! OMG, a very big turn off! NZ are going backwards and it's starting so soon 
Vietnam time..
 
nzrich
Posts: 1094
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 7):
New Safety video on youtube, what do you guys think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmcFKtzcKbQ

I prefer it to the current one which is a mix of the last 4 .
"Pride of the pacific"
 
User avatar
NZ107
Posts: 4946
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:51 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:06 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):
a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.

772 would be more likely though I'd prefer a 764 myself  
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
cchan
Posts: 951
Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 8:54 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:43 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 7):
New Safety video on youtube, what do you guys think?

I don't like the last scene where a NZ 77W disappeared into the ocean off Australia.
 
A330NZ
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:23 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:38 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 7):
what do you guys think?

I think it's awful. What happened to videos where they simply show you what to do in an emergency?? They did one video a little crazy - the body paint - which was still very instructional, but I think they've gotten worse and worse. I personally have to say that the nothing to hide video was the best
 
ZKOJH
Topic Author
Posts: 1446
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:59 am

''Passenger numbers up for Air NZ''

Air New Zealand's long-haul passenger numbers rose 4.8% in May, led by increases in the number of Kiwis departing for Asia and Australia.

The airline carried 910,000 passengers in May, up 2% from a year earlier, it said in a statement.

Christopher Luxon had this to say;

"America's performance is strong - our business across the Atlantic has increased dramatically," he said. "We are constantly looking at where best we can maximise our return for the company and how we can strengthen our existing routes."

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/passenger-numbers-up-air-nz-4938071

is the US market really that good or is just because they have the route to themselves??!

I can only see them taking aircraft from current routes i.e PVG go to 763's ? and using it to increase the US services, or order some 77W's if the numbers are that good to read then take a risk take up the 2 options they all ready had and order one more, would make the market really good.

don't hang on and wait for the 787 which is another 2 years away!
Vietnam time..
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:35 am

I have just seen on the Virgin America site that they are showing AirNZ as an airline partner. They show a lot of airlines as partners - Qantas, Air Pacific, Cathay, Singapore Airlines. I must have missed an announcement about AirNZ joining with them. This may just be baggage interlining, so not much of a deal, but there are some cities, like Fort Lauderdale and Dallas, where using Virgin America would be quicker than using United if United requires connections. Virgin America would be a nice alternative for flights to New York, Washington etc. I wonder if AirNZ will offer Virgin America to NZ based passengers, or is the partnership more aimed at US residents?
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7410
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:51 am

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 14):
I must have missed an announcement about AirNZ joining with them.

It was announced only a few days before I left New Zealand in April.

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 14):
This may just be baggage interlining

Yes to my knowledge is all it is so far
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3218
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:07 am

So what's Rob Fyfe up to next? R&R right now but… Virgin global airline brands alignment and international BFF and smiling assasin for SRB… does anyone know?
come visit the south pacific
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:56 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):
so that would only leave a bid from Delta now that could be nice? a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.

77L is more likely. Also would think it would be from ATL rather than LAX. But I very much doubt it, I think they are happy with SYD.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9853
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 15):
Quoting alangirvan (Reply 14):I must have missed an announcement about AirNZ joining with them.
It was announced only a few days before I left New Zealand in April.

Looks like I also missed it! Pity its only for baggage but since UA and NZ are close in the USA its not really surprising!

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):so that would only leave a bid from Delta now that could be nice? a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.
77L is more likely. Also would think it would be from ATL rather than LAX. But I very much doubt it, I think they are happy with SYD.

HA to HNL with an early morning arrival (roughly 8-10am as the new BNE service will have) with excellent connections to mainland USA?
 
BlackLabel
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
Looks like I also missed it! Pity its only for baggage but since UA and NZ are close in the USA its not really surprising!

A number of NZ fares to/from the US permit travel on VX (and DL, AA, US, UA, HA ,depending on the routes). E.g. FLL-SFO-AKL with VX/NZ is shown as valid routing.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:05 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 13):
"America's performance is strong - our business across the Atlantic has increased dramatically," he said. "We are constantly looking at where best we can maximise our return for the company and how we can strengthen our existing routes."

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/passenger-numbers-up-air-nz-4938071

is the US market really that good or is just because they have the route to themselves??!

The way I read it, they're talking about their Atlantic business, ie LAX-LHR
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:02 am

Again, these figures raise questions as to how a 763 can be more profitable on AKL-DPS than a 20% longer LAX-MAN or SFO-LHR sector.

The standard refrain seems to be that only NZ-market long-hauls are core business. But I find that naive and simplistic, just as I believe that making Pacific island online stopovers impossible on most ex-EU tickets served as a superb incentive for European and British leisure travellers to fly Emirates.

Unfortunately, the fingerprints of the outgoing CEO appear to be all over the new CEO's appointment, and I doubt that there will be any significant review of the contentious changes of the last few years.
 
ZKOJH
Topic Author
Posts: 1446
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:59 am

DPS only runs through to Oct, so you never know they might try another silly route after that?! but I still wonder how it's going make any money, it's aimed at outbound from New Zealand - take out all the operating cost of the flight and wonder what you will be left with !

in regards to flights across the Atlantic from LHR-LAX

at the moment you have ; 8 flights a day to fight with; (might have missed a couple) how does NZ001 compete with all off them? as we know from the LHR-HKG route that is under a lot of pressure!

AA 137
UA 935
UA 925
VS 007
VS 023
BA 279
BA 283
BA 269

And finally

NZ 001
Vietnam time..
 
A330NZ
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:23 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:09 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 22):
how does NZ001 compete with all off them

NZ provides a quality business class product. Also, they are one of only 2 airlines on the route (please correct me if I'm wrong) with premium economy (despite the fact the leg room only suits to hobbits) and as for economy class AKA Sardine can class, I'm not too sure how that does well...
 
richcandy
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2001 4:49 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:16 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 22):
in regards to flights across the Atlantic from LHR-LAX

at the moment you have ; 8 flights a day to fight with; (might have missed a couple) how does NZ001 compete with all off them? as we know from the LHR-HKG route that is under a lot of pressure!

Hi

I might be a bit out of date as its a few years since I worked in the industry.

However NZ 1 as just a LHR-LAX flight was fairly easy to sell. Non-stop service to LAX, daily, with a good product. It was easier to sell sometimes than the north american carriers on the same route. Also as NZ 1 LHR-AKL this was seen as a premium way of getting to NZ. People would pay more to fly NZ to New Zealand as it was (ok incorrectly) thought of as being direct (or more direct)


LHR-HKG is a bit of a different story. Not being a daily service puts them at a disadvantage, plus the other carriers on the route offer at least what is seen to be a very good product.

Alex
 
richcandy
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2001 4:49 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting A330NZ (Reply 23):
NZ provides a quality business class product. Also, they are one of only 2 airlines on the route (please correct me if I'm wrong) with premium economy (despite the fact the leg room only suits to hobbits) and as for economy class AKA Sardine can class, I'm not too sure how that does well...

VS have premium economy
BA have World Traveller Plus

as well and NZ.

UA also used to have a sort of premium economy that at one point could only be sold to UA frequent flyers. I am not sure if it is still offered.

Alex
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:03 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):
a 744 would look sexy in AKL! which is becoming a major 'SKYTEAM zone.

More likely a 777 I would think.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
77L is more likely. Also would think it would be from ATL rather than LAX. But I very much doubt it, I think they are happy with SYD.

MEL and BNE has been mentioned in the past with the VA deal, DL replacing VA on MEL-LAX is plausible IMO.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
HA to HNL with an early morning arrival (roughly 8-10am as the new BNE service will have) with excellent connections to mainland USA?

I'd say so probably something like
HNL 1000 AKL 1830
AKL 2130 HNL 0630
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:54 am

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 19):
A number of NZ fares to/from the US permit travel on VX (and DL, AA, US, UA, HA ,depending on the routes). E.g. FLL-SFO-AKL with VX/NZ is shown as valid routing.

FLL-SFO-AKL would be useful for NZ residents who are taking a cruise in the Caribbean. Would be nice if VX give points in AirNZ FF.
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:14 am

The thing about TransAtlantic flights from the west coast of the USA is that so many time zones are crossed that one daily frequency is plenty.

Traditionally, NZ fares (and costs) have been slightly lower than VS, UA and BA, while the product has been perceived to be superior in Business, Premium Economy and Economy. This made NZ competitive on Trans-Atlantic tickets, while the choice of stopovers at PPT, NAN, HNL, RAR, TBU and APW was a major selling point for leisure travellers from UK/EU to NZ and even Australia.

Unfortunately, that Pacific network has been dismantled, and passengers buying up to the fares which allow them to take codeshare replacements pay a huge fare premium and lose frequent flyer accrual.

And worse still, NZ's Economy product now involves by far the worst personal space of any of the four carriers.
 
A330NZ
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:23 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:23 am

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 25):
VS have premium economy
BA have World Traveller Plus
as well and NZ.

My mistake, I was unaware that VS had a premium economy product. Thank you for the correction
 
ZKOJH
Topic Author
Posts: 1446
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:07 pm

NZ goes 744 daily on the SFO route from the 28 Oct 2012

NZ008 AKL1930 – 1030SFO 744 D
NZ007 SFO1930 – 0530+2AKL 744 D

28OCT12 – 09DEC12 Service operates 6 weekly (Day x3)
eff 10DEC12 Daily

still 9 hrs down time, loss of $$$$$ could they not re-time the return leg?
Vietnam time..
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7410
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 30):
still 9 hrs down time, loss of $$$$$ could they not re-time the return leg?

I would argue this was the case across the longhaul network. YVR/SFO/LAX/HKG/LHR/PVG all involve long periods of downtime. Many airlines have a maximum downtime they will not exceed at outstations of say 2h or 2h30 to ensure that they get the utilisation from their fleets.

However being that the 744 only flies to SFO now means that they are not the top priority for retiming. I would do so for all of the above mentioned flights, not just SFO.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
LondonCity
Posts: 964
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:57 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 25):
UA also used to have a sort of premium economy that at one point could only be sold to UA frequent flyers. I am not sure if it is still offered.

It's still very much on offer. UA's version of Y+ will also feature on the 787. See details:


http://www.ausbt.com.au/united-s-boe...eamliners-including-qantas-to-come
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9853
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 30):
NZ008 AKL1930 – 1030SFO 744 D
NZ007 SFO1930 – 0530+2AKL 744 D

28OCT12 – 09DEC12 Service operates 6 weekly (Day x3)
eff 10DEC12 Daily

still 9 hrs down time, loss of $$$$$ could they not re-time the return leg?

NZ8/7 becoming AKL-SFO-ORD/JFK/ORD/IAH?
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 30):

still 9 hrs down time, loss of $$$$$ could they not re-time the return leg?

Well the 744s basically don't cost NZ jack all to have sitting around anymore so its not a biggie...better to have the preferred timings. Also gives plenty of time for mx... which at their age is probably becoming a lot more necessary even though they seem to live rather easy lives these days.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7410
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
.better to have the preferred timings

preferred for who, the airline or passengers?
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 35):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 34):
.better to have the preferred timings

preferred for who, the airline or passengers?

both. Sure there are some pax who would prefer to arrive into SFO earlier in the morning to allow earlier connections to the East Coast, but for most it still works fine and means they get to have a full last day in NZL. Night departures from US West are preferable to just about everyone as they allow people to have a day working then catch their flight. Even those from the East Coast can get most of a day in.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1136
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:00 pm

I know this is slightly off the general topic, but there has been an ANZ B777 sitting in Las Vegas since
June 17th. Any ideas why its here so long? I figured it was a charter, but why it didnt ferry back to LAX
is a mystery. Nice to see and very rare in these parts!!!!
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7410
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 37):
Any ideas why its here so long? I figured it was a charter, but why it didnt ferry back to LAX

You were correct, an Air New Zealand organised package charter, I thought the packages sold were for 5 nights - but I didn't pay much attention. The aircraft is operating directly back to AKL.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:32 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
NZ8/7 becoming AKL-SFO-ORD/JFK/ORD/IAH?

That probably would'nt work well as NZ doesnt have the 5th freedom rights to make it ork. I doubt they could fill a 744 (or even a 777 or 763 for that matter) of peole to go to JFK etc from AKL. Makes more sense to codeshare
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 39):
That probably would'nt work well as NZ doesnt have the 5th freedom rights to make it ork. I doubt they could fill a 744 (or even a 777 or 763 for that matter) of peole to go to JFK etc from AKL.

Thats 7th or 8th freedom carrying domestic PAX which they simply wouldn't ever be allowed to do. From LAX they could have extended NZ6 to somewhere back when they had connecting flights from SYD, CHC, NAN, PPT, etc. They simply I think decided the 744 was to big back then. Now I don't think they would consider it unless to FRA or MAN.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 31):
However being that the 744 only flies to SFO now means that they are not the top priority for retiming. I would do so for all of the above mentioned flights, not just SFO.

What would you do though. Retime them to AKL-Asia flights as daylight again and maybe US flights depart AKL most likely much later like

AKL 0900 PVG 1700
PVG 1900 AKL 1030

AKL 2359 LAX 1630
LAX 2030 AKL 0430

All longhaul flights departing in the evening atleast offers reasonable connections from everywhere. Asian flights in daylight need to leave a bit later maybe to increase AKL connections but then reduce connections at the other end and US flights returning in daylight leave the US before noon and arrive AKL around 2000/2100 which doesn't offer much in connections also means ex AKL they need to leave by 1800 missing some connections which i'd say are pretty important to NZs long haul routes.
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 40):
Thats 7th or 8th freedom carrying domestic PAX which they simply wouldn't ever be allowed to do.

Oh my bad. Point is though, If QF struggled to fill a 332 (with feed from AKL, MEL, SYD & BNE) , a 744 would be an overkill for NZ from AKL
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 41):
Oh my bad. Point is though, If QF struggled to fill a 332 (with feed from AKL, MEL, SYD & BNE) , a 744 would be an overkill for NZ from AKL

QF run a 744 again now though, go figure really. They seem to do ok up front and in the hold to JFK. The 332 was just J and Y and the 744 no longer has F but does atleast have W.

But for NZ they didn't extend to another port in the past from LAX or SFO and I can't see it in future unless its an International tag but even then it doesn't seem likely atm.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:24 am

What would be great would be if NZ offered a reasonable option of AKL-West Coast-East Coast-Europe (and vice versa) in combination with partner airlines. Prices at travel agents for this type of routing are usually silly enough to warrant splitting the whole thing up and doing it yourself, while the website doesn't recognise any of it as an option.

Is it totally inconceivable that people might want to fly into one coast and out the other? Even as an open jaw for US domestic, it would be handy. Would demonstrate the value of alliances.
 
alangirvan
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2000 2:13 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:17 am

The Qantas service to New York has been a hard one for Qantas. They started it with 747s, and then switched to A330s, which may have been the right size for the number of passengers carried, but an A332 does not have the range to fly from Australia to US West Coast. (Another reason why Qantas could have found a use for the 777. A 777-200ER could fly BNE-LAX-JFK). Now they are back with 747s, but that is not because they need the extra Economy seats on the route.

When NZ is a much smaller market, how would AirNZ hope to fill even a 777 on the LAX-JFK sector, where of course they have no traffic rights. One advantage for Qantas is that they are providing the service between LAX and JFK, not transferring the passengers to US carriers with Buy on Board service.
 
brad330
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:09 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:32 pm

Hi All,

Does anybody know where I can find information on the amount of passengers carried on each air route for domestic NZ operations?

Cheers, Brad
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4946
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 44):
When NZ is a much smaller market, how would AirNZ hope to fill even a 777 on the LAX-JFK sector, where of course they have no traffic rights.

My view is that NYC is a market as good or better than LAX. About all LAX has is Disney and Universal Studios.The population within 100 mile radius of NYC is 28.2m whereas LAX is 17.7m. Great connecting point for tours of the east coast seaboard and into the interior as far as the Mississippi River.
To me AKL-IAH-EWR same aircraft seems attractive. In my view a 250-seater 789 would be quite well sized for the route. NYC is one of the major air cargo points in the world. Imagine N.Z. fresh products gathered in the morning, out of AKL in the evening and on the NYC market a day later. The 789 can haul a full passenger load plus 15t of cargo eastbound AKL-IAH.
I would advocate reducing NZ5/6 to 4x weekly and doing this route the other 3 days one of which should be Saturday for those of us in central Canada who like to travel on weekends. Out of AKL at 1630 PM into IAH at 1330 into EWR at 1745 into IAH at 2300 out at 00.30 into AKL at 0715.
There was discussion on pre-clearing US Customs and Immigration in AKL a few months ago. In my view this is an essential component in growing the US market. The Airport Authority should provide the space pro bono , the airlines should kick in or surcharge the shortfall of passengers below the 400,000 that the US considers to be a minimum to set up such a service. This would help dispel the hangup that Kiwi's have on clearing US Customs particularly in LAX.
Just my    worth.
 
macilree
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:13 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting brad330 (Reply 45):
Does anybody know where I can find information on the amount of passengers carried on each air route for domestic NZ operations?

Brad, there is nothing publicly available on pax numbers by route. When we deregulated the domestic air transport market in the 1980s the Ministry of Transport stopped collecting this data.

You can get total domestic passenger numbers for AKL, WLG and CHC (also ZQN) from each airport company's web site. I follow this data to get an overall picture of what is going on. Note that almost all domestic flights now originate or terminate at these three hubs.

The best bet might be to work out capacity and make a load factor assumption. The University of Otago CATR web site has a report with a network map that shows seat capacity on the main individual domestic routes in 2010 (see page 70).

There are also CPI component series for international and domestic passenger fares available on the Statistics NZ web site.
John Macilree
 
macilree
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:13 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:12 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 40):
Thats 7th or 8th freedom carrying domestic PAX which they simply wouldn't ever be allowed to do.

In the example given it would require eight freedom rights to be exchanged for Air New Zealand to carry domestic passengers within the USA. The USA has not exchanged those rights with New Zealand under the MALIAT or with any other country for that matter.

However, some readers may recall that Air New Zealand was able to carry its own passengers between HNL and LAX even if they had stopped over in Hawaii. I did this in 1986.
John Macilree
 
User avatar
MillwallSean
Posts: 859
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread #116

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:16 am

I just wonder why we see so much speculation on two stop routes?
Wasnt this just what NZ said they wouldn't start more of in the future. Or did I miss some new announcements that they are now back to planning two stops and fuel not killing yields on such routes?

I think its safe to assume that NZ wont add any new 2 stops. Look at the price for a ticket to California and compare that with the price to LHR. they sure don't make that many percent extra flying all the way to LHR. Its not money or resources well spent to add more 2 stops unless they can increase prices accordingly and we see no sign at all of that being possible with the competition that exist on flights to Europe.

If for some reason they were to add an extra two stop id say that would just be shuffling of what they're doing right now.

Also, as far as I understand international isn't profitable. Is it really the right time to add another of the biggest money losers then?

DPS how manys eats are sold to the uncompetitive travel-agent market in New Zealand. I assume thats a route where bundled trips through Flightcentre and the other two agents accounts for 80% of demand.
I assume they did their homework and despite me not believing NZ should be in the charter business, way to low margins, I assume it must be a marginally profitable route or the travel department at NZ must be completely clueless. The information, stats and agreements with primary sales channels they must have had before they launched such a route should make it impossible to fail unless the route planners are paid to guesstimate and that would surprise me...
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.

Who is online