JoKeR
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AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:40 am

Cost cutting measures being taken at AF include the slashing of 5,000 jobs over the next 18 months. Hopes are that most jobs will be lost though natural turnover and not through redundancies.

Stock market seems happy with the move. Wonder what the unions will have to say about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18532668
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OA260
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:47 am

Thats going to be a nightmare and I can only imagine the strikes we will see . A Lot of work force to shed its a huge amount.
 
76er
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:53 am

I don't expect a lot of resistance from the unions. AF says all staff reductions will be though natural attrition and early retirements.

Just a short term solution IMHO. AF will still be the old AF..
 
JoKeR
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:58 am

Quoting 76er (Reply 2):
AF says all staff reductions will be though natural attrition and early retirements.

Well the article says that The company estimates some 1,700 jobs could be lost through natural turnover.

That still leaves 3,300 jobs, no?
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76er
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:26 pm

Correct, taken care of by early retirement packages.
 
stlgph
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:32 pm

Quoting 76er (Reply 4):
Correct, taken care of by early retirement packages.
Quoting JoKeR (Reply 3):
That still leaves 3,300 jobs, no?

Our Paris bureau is reporting including attrition, 3,022 out of a 32,121 ground workers will go plus 1,506 of 13,226 flight attendants, and 594 out of 3,954 pilots. 2,056 are being sought to leave among the ground crew on voluntary departures.
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
Wonder what the unions will have to say about this?

This is one thing the unions can't do anything about. As long as they respect seniority, AF management can fire whoever they want and call it cost cutting measures.

All the unions can do is sit in the sidelines and watch the action unfold.

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LH506
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:39 pm

They are also planning to retire / park most of there 744 and 343s over the winter. Only very few routes will remain.
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Amsterdam
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:33 am

They should take out 10.000 jobs to make real advances.
But they won't.
And their flying crews have to make more hours.
It's 2012 and still this company is lagging behind.
They won't make it with their current plans.
 
airproxx
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:16 am

Quoting 76er (Reply 2):
I don't expect a lot of resistance from the unions. AF says all staff reductions will be though natural attrition and early retirements.

Just a short term solution IMHO. AF will still be the old AF..

Same opinion here. This plan has already been discussed with the unions, and they agreed. So no big strike to fear really I think...

But this is definitely a short term action, and the board will need to go further to reduce costs.

The main reason AF has lost its competitive, is the cost of administrative staff.
All these measures concern operational staff: pilots, FAs, ground operations staff... But nothing about the huge amount of people working on administrative tasks, especially in Paris.
During all the numerous mergers AF has been subjected to, a lot of jobs becoming doubled, tripled, even quadrupled, haven't been cut. And now people from the operational side have to pay the price for this very bad management...
I don't buy it.
The ratio between Plane Number / Staff Number is around 185 people/plane, while it must be something like 100 people/plane @ U2...
And as long as AF doesn't solve this "social" problem, the company will keep sinking...
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okay
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:38 am

What you guys think, could such scenario happen that AF would actually go under? In such case, what would happen to KLM, which, as long as I know, is in better shape?

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bobnwa
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:12 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
All the unions can do is sit in the sidelines and watch the action unfold.

Yes, the unions should sit on the sidelines and watch, but this is France we are talking about where the usualgeneral strikes will take place aling with slowdowns. The same situation would hold true in Italy
 
JRadier
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting airproxx (Reply 9):
The ratio between Plane Number / Staff Number is around 185 people/plane, while it must be something like 100 people/plane @ U2...

While 185 might be too high, expecting it to get to the same level as U2 is unrealistic. Not only do they fly long haul routes with crew staying over, managing a hub and spoke network is far more complex than what U2 does, and thus requires more people. Not saying that it couldn't be lower though... far from it!
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FURUREFA
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:18 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 12):
Quoting airproxx (Reply 9):
The ratio between Plane Number / Staff Number is around 185 people/plane, while it must be something like 100 people/plane @ U2...

While 185 might be too high, expecting it to get to the same level as U2 is unrealistic. Not only do they fly long haul routes with crew staying over, managing a hub and spoke network is far more complex than what U2 does, and thus requires more people. Not saying that it couldn't be lower though... far from it!

As a benchmark, United is about 120 per aircraft, excluding express aircraft, which many mainline employees handle.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:01 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):

Cost cutting measures being taken at AF include the slashing of 5,000 jobs over the next 18 months.

There goes the Aircraft washing crews.     
Quoting airproxx (Reply 9):
But this is definitely a short term action, and the board will need to go further to reduce costs.

   As noted:

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 16):
As a benchmark, United is about 120 per aircraft

Its a global market. Either run the operation efficiently enough or lose business.



Lightsaber

[Edited 2012-06-24 06:53:57 by srbmod]
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TeamintheSky
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:48 pm

First off, you never like to hear about redundancies. Losing a job, even if a great compensation package is given can be demoralizing to the workforce, and I hope for the best for all of those affected.

However, as countless threads and numerous (especially on this website) critics have pointed out AF's current situation is well past unsustainable. While I will concede that this is a first step in a long road to right the ship, I am happy they are taking some action. As a flier with 10k under my belt with AF this year and already another 15k booked, I am also delighted to here about how much more efficient CDG for AF and SkyTeam operations is becoming!
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shamrock604
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:01 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 1):
Thats going to be a nightmare and I can only imagine the strikes we will see . A Lot of work force to shed its a huge amount.

This will be done by voluntary means and I think there is recognition of "where the company is" among the staff. Believe it or not, I dont think you will see any widespread unrest. Plus, Spinetta, who rumour has it is somewhat better at the old staff relations thing than Pierre Gurgeon was, is back at the helm.

[Edited 2012-06-24 06:54:14 by srbmod]
 
bastew
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:25 am

I actually flicked through a copy of the Wall Street Journal (Europe) on my flight yesterday and the Air France job story was on page one.

Whether it is a fair way of measuring or not they had a comparison of the number of passengers per employee of europes large airlines. Air France was around 650. Lufthansa was around 830. BA was most 'efficient' at 910.
 
srbmod
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RE: AF To Slash 5,000 Jobs By End 2013

Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:56 pm

Please keep the discussion relevant to the topic, which is AF jobs cuts. If you wish to discuss the merits of connecting at certain airports, please do so in a SEPARATE THREAD.