point2point
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Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:06 am

With a lot of commerce between the U.S. and Mexico along the border, and air service growing, a curious fact seems to be that there is no nonstop air service from the U.S. and 5 cities in Mexico that are on the U.S. border and have commercial airports. These five cities are Tijuana (TIJ), with a population of 1.8M, Mexicali (MXL) pop. 1M, Ciudad Juarez (CJS) pop. 1.5M, Nuevo Laredo (NLD) pop. 600K and Reynosa (REX) pop 500K.

I believe that Y4 tried service between OAK-TIJ, and this barely lasted a year. This one couldn’t work?

Do most of those from the U.S. fly to the nearest U.S. airport – such as SAN for Tijuana or ELP for Ciudad Juarez and then just cross the land border? Or does a Mexican national who is in Tijuana who wants to fly to Chicago cross the border as well and then fly from SAN? It would seem easier just to deal with customs, etc, at the airports.

It seems there’s enough commerce of late as well to warrant some business traffic as well. Or is maybe the drug related border violence keeps the U.S. carriers out of these airports? And if so, then why not the Mexican carriers, since they're there already?

At any rate, its seems as though maybe a DEN-TIJ, or DEN-CJS flight could work. Or maybe an ORD-TIJ or ORD-CJS flight as well. Or maybe DFW-NLD, or DFW-REX, or DFW-MXL, and make these work with connects like they probably do with a lot of the AA Mexico flights that they have there?

Just curious here as to why none of these Mexican border cities have no flights into the U.S.? And I mean none. It seems that at least a couple or so flights here or there could do well.

 



[Edited 2012-06-21 19:12:09]
 
SANFan
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:20 am

As you suggested, I think most people like to stick with domestic flights on either side of the border; they're cheaper and and much easier. We in SAN have issues with Mexico flights being successful since there are so many domestic Mexican flights out of TIJ. And it would be very duplicative to have service from TIJ to US hubs since everything is already offered via Lindbergh Field.

bb
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:22 am

The US-Mexico border towns are amongst the most dangerous cities because of the Cartel violence. That pretty much shut down a lot of the tourism to those cities. There are even federal advisories stating if you no business in the border towns, do not travel there.

Yes...Y4 tried OAK-TIJ, mainly for the connection traffic to rest of Mexico. Allegro Air also briefly tried OAK-TIJ.

Back in the 1980's, I flew LAX-TIJ on an AM DC-9-30 with a whopping 11 people on board.
 
tharanga
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:30 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
I think most people like to stick with domestic flights on either side of the border; they're cheaper and and much easier.

But is it still easier when you factor in having to cross the border by car?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:49 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
Back in the 1980's, I flew LAX-TIJ on an AM DC-9-30 with a whopping 11 people on board.

The Aeromexico DC-9-32 that collided in mid-air with a Piper Cherokee over Cerritos, about 25 miles southeast of LAX, in August 1986, was en route from TIJ to LAX. All 64 on the DC-9, the 3 in the Cherokee, and 15 people on the ground, were killed. The DC-9 was on a 3-stop flight MEX-GDL-LTO (Loreto)-TIJ-LAX. I believe 19 of the 58 passengers boarded in TIJ.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19860831-0

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sr117
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:01 am

As SANFan mentioned above, for border cities like TIJ it makes a lot better sense for people wanting to go to Mexico to use TIJ and for people wanting to fly to the US, Europe or Asia to use SAN or LAX.

Yes, the border wait can be a drag, but lots of people are willing to overlook that if it means saving a few bucks or having more options.

People on the Mexican side of the border are used to long border waits so crossing the border to catch a flight at SAN or LAX isn't really that much trouble. Most people here in the Tijuana region use SAN if they want to go to the US or Overseas.

There are people on the US side that do not like crossing and/or prefer the convenience of nonstop service into SAN, but unfortunately not enough to sustain much nonstop service outside of AS and now Volaris. Besides nonstop service, there is always the option of connecting at LAX or PHX.

Those willing to cross from San Diego to Tijuana (and it will get easier once the new cross border terminal opens), can enjoy pretty much the biggest selection of nonstops available to any US city outside of Houston. And people from Tijuana have unparalleled access to US destinations and beyond through SAN and LAX.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:02 am

Does anyone want to fly to those cities? Honest question, not snark!
 
point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:17 am

Quoting SR117 (Reply 5):
the border wait can be a drag,
Quoting tharanga (Reply 3):
But is it still easier when you factor in having to cross the border by car?

My line of thinking......

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 6):
Does anyone want to fly to those cities? Honest question, not snark!

There are probably some businesses along the border on the Mexico side that would warrant some travel, along with the VFR traffic. A lot of people think that Tijuana is a fun place to be. But other than that, yes, I can see your point. But this is in no offense to anyone in these cities or along the border, there just are a lot of places in the world that people just don't really want to go to.....

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
Back in the 1980's, I flew LAX-TIJ on an AM DC-9-30 with a whopping 11 people on board.

Well, right sizing aircraft would be helpful here. I mean, not even a few small props (although it looks like those are being phased out with time as well)? I left out LAX..... maybe a couple of small props into TIJ or MXL would be enough to give some air service, and save the hassle of a land crossing. I could imagine a good amount of O&D here, is what an airline would want, and then at least LAX has lots of connects. LAX flies to SAN, CLD, IPL, YUM, all short distances, why not TIJ and MXL? Maybe the same can be done from PHX and LAS?

Just thinking that somehow there's some money being left on the table here?

 

[Edited 2012-06-21 20:25:38]
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:02 am

Quoting point2point (Thread starter):
Just curious here as to why none of these Mexican border cities have no flights into the U.S.?

It costs about $80-100 in taxes just to cross the border roundtrip via air before you pay a cent of airfare, so in the case of SAN, you can fly DENSAN for say, $300 or DENTIJ for $380, and the airline gets the same revenue in both cases. Next to no one is willing to pay $100 merely to cross a border--those markets are simply priced out of existence.
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Acey559
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:17 am

You literally couldn't pay me enough to fly to one of those places. I avoid the current Mexico towns we fly to already, and they're resort towns and allegedly "safe".
 
point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:21 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
It costs about $80-100 in taxes just to cross the border roundtrip via air before you pay a cent of airfare, so in the case of SAN, you can fly DENSAN for say, $300 or DENTIJ for $380, and the airline gets the same revenue in both cases. Next to no one is willing to pay $100 merely to cross a border--those markets are simply priced out of existence.

Ah ha! Now we're getting somewhere.

Please answer if this one way, one charge, or is it $160-$200 being charged total for roundtrip? If it's just $80-$100 just one way, one time, then travelers now have to factor in the cost of crossing by land, twice. After all, travelers don't DENSAN and save $80-$100 and then just snap fingers and end up in their destination across the border in Tijuana, or vice-versa in Tijuana...... Money, then time, then other hassles have to be calculated.

Okay.... so now a traveler has to think, eh?

 
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:29 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 7):
Well, right sizing aircraft would be helpful here. I mean, not even a few small props (although it looks like those are being phased out with time as well)? I left out LAX..... maybe a couple of small props into TIJ or MXL would be enough to give some air service, and save the hassle of a land crossing. I could imagine a good amount of O&D here, is what an airline would want, and then at least LAX has lots of connects. LAX flies to SAN, CLD, IPL, YUM, all short distances, why not TIJ and MXL? Maybe the same can be done from PHX and LAS?

Just thinking that somehow there's some money being left on the table here?

Several years ago DL connection tried running LAX-TIJ using rj's, I can't remember if they actually
started the flight, or it was never launched. I believe U.S.-TIJ flights don't work because of the proximity
to SAN and SAN has only limited Mexico flights because of the same reason. I guess the airlines believe
if you want a big selection of Mexico flights, simply go to TIJ, whereas if someone wants to fly to the U.S.,
Canada, or Europe, go to SAN.

[Edited 2012-06-21 21:30:04]
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SANMAN66
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:34 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
It costs about $80-100 in taxes just to cross the border roundtrip via air before you pay a cent of airfare, so in the case of SAN, you can fly DENSAN for say, $300 or DENTIJ for $380, and the airline gets the same revenue in both cases. Next to no one is willing to pay $100 merely to cross a border--those markets are simply priced out of existence.

I guess I posted too early. That's interesting. I didn't know about the extra taxes.
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wedgetail737
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:01 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 6):
Does anyone want to fly to those cities? Honest question, not snark!

Back in the day, TJ (known by San Diegans) used to be quite a tourist attraction and really not a bad place to visit. The drug Cartels really screwed that up and I don't know if TJ will ever recover because of that.

Quoting point2point (Reply 7):
Well, right sizing aircraft would be helpful here.

During the early 1990's, Air LA flew Metros between LAX and TIJ.
 
ScottB
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:09 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 10):
Please answer if this one way, one charge, or is it $160-$200 being charged total for roundtrip? If it's just $80-$100 just one way, one time, then travelers now have to factor in the cost of crossing by land, twice. After all, travelers don't DENSAN and save $80-$100 and then just snap fingers and end up in their destination across the border in Tijuana, or vice-versa in Tijuana...... Money, then time, then other hassles have to be calculated.

I believe he was fairly clear:

Quoting point2point (Reply 10):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
It costs about $80-100 in taxes just to cross the border roundtrip via air

Now, you talk about factoring in time: Time is an important factor. Domestic air travel markets are going to be, with few exceptions, much denser than transborder markets. So a market like ELP-DFW is going to be an order of magnitude (or more) larger than CJS-DFW -- the same is true of TIJ-MEX vs. SAN-MEX. Consequently, the domestic route can support far greater frequency -- and the land border crossing will be worth it for the convenience of greater selection in flight times. And typically residents of cities along the border will be fairly familiar with the patterns of wait times at the border and will be able to plan around that. That doesn't even take into account the added convenience of far more non-stop domestic markets at the border city -- i.e. a non-stop from EWR to SAN vs. a connection at DEN to TIJ.
 
point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:22 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
I believe he was fairly clear:

ooops......correct, sorry.......

Who collects the extra charges?


 
 
CapEd388
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting point2point (Thread starter):
or DFW-REX,

I live in the McAllen area, which borders Reynosa and let me tell you, that city is in terrible shape, one of cities with most violence. I frankly dont think there is enough demand to support a DFW-REX route. Especially when MFE is 10-20 minutes away.
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Byrdluvs747
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:56 am

While not exactly on the border, I think PPE stands a more reasonable chance of air service with a bigger tourist draw than any of the border cities.
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point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:18 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 17):
PPE

It looks as this is on the water, between the Baja Peninsula and the rest of Mexico. It doesn't have any commercial air service, from what I can tell, does it? Beaches must be beautiful there though?

Quoting CapEd388 (Reply 16):
Reynosa and let me tell you, that city is in terrible shape, one of cities with most violence. I frankly dont think there is enough demand to support a DFW-REX route.

That bad, eh? Doesn't sound like that would work.

 
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 18):

It looks as this is on the water, between the Baja Peninsula and the rest of Mexico. It doesn't have any commercial air service, from what I can tell, does it? Beaches must be beautiful there though?

Yes, its on the coast at the top of the sea of Cortez, but Mexico treats it as an special economic corridor(I forgot the name of it) to act like a virtual border town. While it doesn't have commercial air service currently, the new airport is ready once the economy picks up. I think AM or one of the other Mexican carriers were considering service to LAX and/or PHX before the economy nosedived.

My mom lives in Las Cruces, NM(50 miles west of ELP) and all you hear about is the killing that goes on in Juarez. The border towns are now nothing more than junctions for drugs to the US and guns to Mexico. You never really hear anything like that about PPE.

The beaches are nice, but not quite as beautiful as those in CUN.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting point2point (Thread starter):
ELP for Ciudad Juarez and then just cross the land border?

Judging from the number of "State of Chihuahua" license plates in El Paso shopping centers, restaurant parking lots, and even at McDonald's, I'd say folks in Juarez only fly to Mexican destinations from their own airport -- and only 7 destinations are served from CJS.
 
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 19):
My mom lives in Las Cruces, NM(50 miles west of ELP) and all you hear about is the killing that goes on in Juarez. The border towns are now nothing more than junctions for drugs to the US and guns to Mexico

If you've ever been through ELP 's weird two-story TSA setup, you might get the impression something was amiss.   
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 13):
Back in the day, TJ (known by San Diegans) used to be quite a tourist attraction and really not a bad place to visit.

Now folks come across the border to shop in the San Ysidro (tax-free) enterprise zone.  
 
planesavvy
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:44 pm

Out of interest, how much of the reverse is there, ie US border towns with flights to other parts of Mexico? When I lived in McAllen, Texas, years ago they had daily flights to Mexico City and if I recall some to Monterey on metros of Aerolitorral. Are there many of these flying?
 
point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting planesavvy (Reply 23):
how much of the reverse is there, ie US border towns with flights to other parts of Mexico?

I think that the proper reply to your question is that Brownsville (BRO) has an AM RJ to Monterrey (MTY) that goes about 4 times a week? And I guess this flight is so that people don't have to make a drive through supposedly some of the most dangerous parts of Mexico, but I don't know if that's really true or not.

Other than the above, that's about it, I think.

edit added - I forgot that SAN has flights to SJD, PVR, GDL and MEX.

 

[Edited 2012-06-22 08:00:31]
 
RobertS975
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:54 pm

This is exactly the same topic that I posed in a thread several years ago! Because the border crossing experience is so time consuming, I would have thought that direct TIJ service to various hubs in the USA would be viable. The market seems to be telling us otherwise, but one would think that service to hubs like LAX, PHX, DEN, and maybe in DFW would generate enough traffic, given the huge population of TIJ and northern Baja.
 
point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 25):
This is exactly the same topic that I posed in a thread several years ago!

I think that everyone here knows that the search isn't the best on this site. I did a search for this and - nada.

Nonetheless, it seems that nothing really has changed from several years ago.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 25):
Because the border crossing experience is so time consuming, I would have thought that direct TIJ service to various hubs in the USA would be viable. The market seems to be telling us otherwise, but one would think that service to hubs like LAX, PHX, DEN, and maybe in DFW would generate enough traffic, given the huge population of TIJ and northern Baja.

Yes, as well as CJS having at least a couple of flights in some smaller craft could very well be viable.

I guess that ultimately the market knows what it's doing.......


 
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 26):
as well as CJS having at least a couple of flights in some smaller craft could very well be viable.

But CJS doesn't even serve every population center in Mexico -- only seven cities.

OTOH, ELP is only 12 miles away and has five airlines ( AA, DL, UA, US, and WN) serving 14 nonstop destinations.
 
point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:13 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 27):
But CJS doesn't even serve every population center in Mexico

But for the sake of avoiding the land border crossing, one would think that maybe it could have a flight to LAX, or PHX, or LAS, or DEN, or DFW, or IAH, or ATL...... something? Even with a prop?

It's just kind of curious, as stated in my opening, that there are exactly 0 (ZERO) flights from any of these border cities into the U.S. The Y4 OAK-TIJ flight stopped after a very short time, didn't even make it 6 months, IIRC. And I would of thought that this one had a very good chance to work. Maybe the A319 (I think that's what it was) too much of plane? Or SFO or SJC maybe could have worked better.

I can also see where this extra $80-$100 would put a big damper on the volume of traffic - but to have none?

I would think that even these druglords and their minions have to travel sometimes, and they probably could afford it....?

At any rate....... ??

 
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:14 pm

The reason there is no airserve is that cities are close and bus service is cheap and extensive
 
RobertS975
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:53 pm

But a land crossing into the USA at many of these border cities can take several hours! If you have never seen the vehicle lines waiting to cross the border at San Ysidro or Otay,... If I lived in TIJ or Baja and wanted to fly anywhere in the USA or Europe, I certainly would welcome a direct flight to a large American hub.
 
HAWAIIAN932
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:19 pm

Years ago I remember Allegra having a flight a few times a week that went MEX-GDL-TIJ-LAS. I believe it was on an MD-80. Didn't last very long and was not a daily flight.
 
SANMAN66
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:11 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 30):
But a land crossing into the USA at many of these border cities can take several hours! If you have never seen the vehicle lines waiting to cross the border at San Ysidro or Otay,... If I lived in TIJ or Baja and wanted to fly anywhere in the USA or Europe, I certainly would welcome a direct flight to a large American hub.

In San Diego, the radio stations broadcast the estimated border waits along with traffic reports. There has always
been a shuttle service between TIJ and SAN, these little orange and white shuttle vans that says "Rodriguez Int'l-
San Diego airport" in spanish. ( I see them all the time.) The shuttle service existed for years. I speculate that
there just isn't enough pax travelling between the U.S. and TIJ to warrant a successful flight, either that or the
number of pax travelling from TIJ to the U.S. fluctuates to be consistent.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 29):
The reason there is no airserve is that cities are close and bus service is cheap and extensive


Agreed. That's one reason. Before Volaris started serving SAN, they had a scheduled bus service, the same with Aeromexico.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
It costs about $80-100 in taxes just to cross the border roundtrip via air before you pay a cent of airfare, so in the case of SAN, you can fly DENSAN for say, $300 or DENTIJ for $380, and the airline gets the same revenue in both cases. Next to no one is willing to pay $100 merely to cross a border--those markets are simply priced out of existence.

This appears to be the other reason.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:12 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 30):
But a land crossing into the USA at many of these border cities can take several hours!

Takes hours?

Part of El Paso's work force lives in Juarez. There has been public transport between the two cities since 1909.



[Edited 2012-06-22 16:20:31]
 
point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:16 am

Quoting HAWAIIAN932 (Reply 31):
TIJ-LAS

I'm thinking here with this now that G4 is pretty much running out of places in the U.S. to further its model, maybe Mexico could be the next target, especially now that G4 has attained its flag carrier status? We can have LAS-xxx (small Mexican cities) and have places like TIJ, CJS, NLD, along the border, and maybe the likes of some CUU, TRC and DGO all having vacations packages to LAS? And maybe same for some to MCO?

Although not really in any way ideal for connects, well, at least there will be some low cost air service.

I don't really know if I'm serious or not here.......???

 
 
Beardown91737
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:54 am

Mexicali isn't affected by a cross border twin like Juarez is by ELP and TJ is by SD. Mexicali is 650,000+ and across the border, Calexico, CA is only about 40,000, with no major air service. it is also about 90-100 miles east of SAN.
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:43 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 33):
Takes hours?

Part of El Paso's work force lives in Juarez. There has been public transport between the two cities since 1909.

Great pictures. Too bad the streetcar doesn't run anymore. Those days are over. It's strange how the bridge in the second picture still looks the same.

Regarding air service from the US border cities to Mexico, I remember service from ELP to CUU by Aerolitoral not too long ago. CO also used to serve MEX from ELP, although I'm not sure a flight to MEX is warranted these days given the 3-4 daily nonstops from CJS (seems like there used to be more using MD-80s and DC-9s). One source of competition that is easy to forget is the bus; I believe there is a plethora of first class bus service from Juarez to almost every major city that is still relatively inexpensive.
 
DesertAir
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:23 am

This is a great thread. I live in Tijuana and have often wondered why there is no Tijuana-USA flights. I think DL could support two flights a day to ATL and AA to DFW. Since Tijuana is an international business city, I believe these flights could be supported for connectons to midwest and east coast US cities and international destinations. Tijuana also sees a lot of medical tourism which could be a draw. The international boarder in San Ysidro is not for the faint of heart.
 
RobertS975
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:34 pm

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 37):
This is a great thread. I live in Tijuana and have often wondered why there is no Tijuana-USA flights. I think DL could support two flights a day to ATL and AA to DFW. Since Tijuana is an international business city, I believe these flights could be supported for connectons to midwest and east coast US cities and international destinations. Tijuana also sees a lot of medical tourism which could be a draw. The international boarder in San Ysidro is not for the faint of heart.


Or DL service to SLC...

DesertAir speaks the truth about the border crossing... a Tijuana resident that wants to take a flight out of SAN probably needs to leave his house three miles from the border about 6 hours before his flight!
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 36):
Too bad the streetcar doesn't run anymore.

You're correct. El Paso's transit is all Orion and Juarez' transit is all Benz.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 36):
Great pictures

Thank you. I do my best.  

[Edited 2012-06-24 07:56:11]
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 37):
The international boarder in San Ysidro is not for the faint of heart.

A few dozen masked soldiers with automatic weapons never frightened me.   
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
I think most people like to stick with domestic flights on either side of the border; they're cheaper and and much easier.

We have the same "issue" in Canada. The Canadian border city Windsor YQG (across from DTW) has no transborder service either while many smaller Cdn cities do. It's just easier for Windsorites to drive across to DTW. Also, I suspect. US carriers would simply see YQG service as a duplication of their DTW service a few miles away.

Quoting SR117 (Reply 5):
Those willing to cross from San Diego to Tijuana (and it will get easier once the new cross border terminal opens),

Has the new cross border terminal been approved? What is the ETA date?

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 37):
The international boarder in San Ysidro is not for the faint of heart.

I was in TIJ on business a couple of years ago, and decided to walk across the border to San Diego rather than wait a day in TIJ for my flight to YYZ (via MEX). In 2 hours in line, I did not see a single American (or other anglo-saxon) trying to cross the border back into the US. I was in my suit and with a rolling traveller. I also will NEVER do that border crossing again. I also did not want to fly out of TIJ again (I arrived by air into TIJ). TIJ airport is an absolute dump and I was inundated with unwelcome attention in arrivals from Mexicans peddling everything. Very uncivilized and possibly unsafe. I encourage all Americans to avoid TIJ (city and airport).
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 40):
A few dozen masked soldiers with automatic weapons never frightened me.

I was referring to the time most people have to wait in cars or on foot to walk across. I applied and received a Sentri permit that makes walking across very easy. The presence of the Mexican Army has allowed the city to loosen the grip on organized crime violence.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 41):
was in TIJ on business a couple of years ago, and decided to walk across the border to San Diego rather than wait a day in TIJ for my flight to YYZ (via MEX). In 2 hours in line, I did not see a single American (or other anglo-saxon) trying to cross the border back into the US. I was in my suit and with a rolling traveller. I also will NEVER do that border crossing again. I also did not want to fly out of TIJ again (I arrived by air into TIJ). TIJ airport is an absolute dump and I was inundated with unwelcome attention in arrivals from Mexicans peddling everything. Very uncivilized and possibly unsafe. I encourage all Americans to avoid TIJ (city and airport).

GAP (Grupo Aeropuertos del Pacífico) has recently spent millions of pesos remodeling the airport. You would find a completely different experience now. The airport is much bigger, a lot easier to navigate and is very clean and bright. The airport is very secure and venders are not permitted.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 42):
I applied and received a Sentri permit that makes walking across very easy.

I've shopped in the San Ysidro outlet stores with hundreds of Mexican citizens and among scores of cars with "State of Baja-California" license plates.

I'm glad some do make it across.   
 
smoot4208
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting point2point (Thread starter):
or DEN-CJS flight could work.

MX flew DEN-CJS 4 x weekly back in the early 90s.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:40 pm

The Mexican border cities do tend to have very large populations but they are also very poor populations. Poor people tend not to fly to the US for leisure.
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Marcus
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
The US-Mexico border towns are amongst the most dangerous cities because of the Cartel violence. That pretty much shut down a lot of the tourism to those cities. There are even federal advisories stating if you no business in the border towns, do not travel there.

For the love of God please turn off the TV and open a book....or better yet hop on a plane....
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point2point
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:47 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 45):
The Mexican border cities do tend to have very large populations but they are also very poor populations. Poor people tend not to fly to the US for leisure.

I agree with you there. However, the populations are large enough that at least some people would have the resources to take trips now and then.... and also, there could be business and VFR traffic coming into these cities.

I could see LAX being the best airport for this, followed probably by DFW, PHX and LAS. And after that the possibilities would be DEN, ORD, IAH, and maybe even ATL for some flights. Even with the smaller birds.

But there are none. And a lot of inland, not even as large cities have these flights, and they seem to be sustaining. So I guess the airlines know what they are doing.

 
 
Marcus
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 45):
The Mexican border cities do tend to have very large populations but they are also very poor populations. Poor people tend not to fly to the US for leisure.

Wrong....the lowest poverty levels are in the border states with the US and in the Mexico City metropolitan area.

US service from border cities in Mexico and Mexico service for US border cities does not work for one simple reason.....

The market is not there!!!!

If you live on the Mexican side and need to fly to the US or international to a third country...it is quicker, easier and cheaper to take a flight from a US airport and take advantage of a bigger selection of airlines, destinations and prices....backtracking south to MEX to then head north again is wastefull in terms of time and money.

If you live in the US side and are flying to Mexico, it is cheaper to drive in to Mexico and then take a domestic flight than an "international" flight from the US to MEX
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Marcus
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RE: Why No US – Mexico Border Cities N/S Air Service?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 40):
A few dozen masked soldiers with automatic weapons never frightened me.

Ah so you have been in airports and subways in France.....good for you.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown