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enilria
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DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:33 pm

This was inevitable. I think it'll be down to 40-50 pretty shortly. The CRJ retirements are a major driver.

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...tting-25-more-flights-memphis.html
 
sw733
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:43 pm

25 flights, but only one destination being elimated...and a very close one (geographically) at that.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:47 pm

Was in MEM this past weekend. Even during the early morning DL bank, there was very little automobile drop off/pick up activity out front. I was surprised how few people were there. I think Delta's service cuts, plus high airfares are putting the airport there in a downward spiral for lower passenger numbers and more cuts.
 
dcaviation
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:53 pm

So where are the people that before the merger were saying that MEM will become ATL reliever?  
 
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enilria
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
25 flights, but only one destination being elimated...and a very close one (geographically) at that.

It's one out of every 6 DL flights. Kind of significant...I said months ago when they announced AMS would be "seasonally" suspended that it was a harbinger of a huge cut and got the usual fanboy responses that I was crazy.

Quoting iahworldflyer (Reply 2):
I think Delta's service cuts, plus high airfares are putting the airport there in a downward spiral for lower passenger numbers and more cuts.

Passengers are complaining about fares, not flights...so far.

Quoting dcaviation (Reply 3):
So where are the people that before the merger were saying that MEM will become ATL reliever?

They are crying...
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:05 pm

So, when is the effective date of these cuts? The article doesn't say and res still shows flights a flight to FSM as of October. Right now there are 2x daily MEM-FSM and 1x daily ATL-FSM. In October (according to Delta.com) that changes to 1 out of MEM and 2 out of ATL.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
sw733
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It's one out of every 6 DL flights. Kind of significant.

I never said it was insignificant. I was just adding a bit of detail.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 5):

So, when is the effective date of these cuts? The article doesn't say and res still shows flights a flight to FSM as of October.

August/September. It is being loaded tomorrow night. It'll be in my OAG thread next week.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
August/September. It is being loaded tomorrow night. It'll be in my OAG thread next week.

Ok.....is that JUST the service MEM-FSM...........will there still be ATL-FSM?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
AWACSooner
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:36 pm

Meh...MEM will be another CVG in about 5 more years, bank it!
 
Metjetceo
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:40 pm

There is a facebook page that was started, where people (on both sides) are getting pretty vocal. There are also political cartoons (I assume from the local paper) on the page too.

The facebook page is "Delta Does Memphis"
 
flyguy89
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:47 pm

I'm just surprised how rapidly they're drawing down MEM, I suppose we can take this to mean MEM-AMS probably won't be returning?
 
peanuts
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Is CLE paying attention?
I hope for them they are hedging for their rainy day. It will come.

Logistically, UA isn't there yet, but they will.

Just inevitable economics at play.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 9):
Meh...MEM will be another CVG in about 5 more years, bank it!

The way it's going make that one year.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 11):
I suppose we can take this to mean MEM-AMS probably won't be returning?

I can imagine them doing it next Summer 3/week, and then it never coming back again. That could even be optimistic.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:56 pm

CVG is also being pulled further down, and DTWHKG is canceled.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 12):

Economics of a largely O&D hub? It would be better to say that geography is working against CLE, not economics.

Also NE Ohio is a much, much larger market than the Tri-State area. I don't think you can say what happens to MEM will be what exactly happens to CLE, even about a post legacy hub operation.

[Edited 2012-06-22 12:05:09]
 
rwy04lga
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
DTWHKG is canceled.

What??? Effective when?
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 15):
Also NE Ohio is a much, much larger market than the Tri-State area.

Yes, but no larger (and probably less economically healthy) than southwest Ohio/northern Kentucky.
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izbtmnhd
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):


I wasn't aware this a was thread about CVG?

As for the Cleveland metro, it has low unemployment compared to most of the country and the area is doing better than you (and most Americans) probably think as of late.

More people live in NE Ohio than SW Ohio/Northern KY. Not by a ton, but Canton makes a difference

[Edited 2012-06-22 12:39:22]
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 18):
As for the Cleveland metro, it has low unemployment compared to most of the country and the area is doing better than you (and most Americans) probably think as of late.

I'm fairly conversant with the economic data. Did I say that Cleveland was doing poorly economically? No, but I think Cincinnati is doing somewhat better.

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 18):
More people live in NE Ohio than SW Ohio/Northern KY. Not by a ton, but Canton makes a difference

If we are considering CAK bleed for CLE, we need to consider DAY and LEX bleed for CVG.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 16):
What??? Effective when?

Looks like the last month of operation is AUG12
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
peanuts
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 15):
Economics of a largely O&D hub? It would be better to say that geography is working against CLE, not economics.

Whichever the reason, in the end, the numbers will force UA to determine the fate of CLE.
It's not only up to UA really. They need to stay competitive as well. Looks to me like DL is a leader in cost cutting and finding further efficiencies from the merger. UA is a ways behind. But it is bound to happen.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 21):
Looks to me like DL is a leader in cost cutting and finding further efficiencies from the merger. UA is a ways behind. But it is bound to happen.

DL started from a weaker position as far as hub cities and 50 seat operations, though UA probably also has too many 50 seaters. But the reduction in Saab flying as well as possibly growth of the DH4 fleet with YX will help keep more current 50 seater routes flying, I think.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
rwy04lga
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 16):
What??? Effective when?

Looks like the last month of operation is AUG12

Thanks! I have to fly that route just to add it to my map.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
smoot4208
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:24 pm

Looks like CMH, DEN, DSM, OMA, PHL, PIT, SGF, TPA, FSM, LIT, and OKC all lose a frequency. Not sure where the other 14 flights are coming from. Also, I don't see any cuts from CVG as of now atleast
 
HPRamper
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting dcaviation (Reply 3):
So where are the people that before the merger were saying that MEM will become ATL reliever?

But MEM is an ATL reliever...in that ATL seems to be relieving itself on MEM.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:03 pm

Quoting dcaviation (Reply 3):
So where are the people that before the merger were saying that MEM will become ATL reliever?

The idea that an airline would invest so much time, money, and effort into managing a "reliever" hub is so absurd I don't know how it ever gained traction and credibility.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
But MEM is an ATL reliever...in that ATL seems to be relieving itself on MEM.

  
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
and DTWHKG is canceled.

That's the bigger news IMO...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
The idea that an airline would invest so much time, money, and effort into managing a "reliever" hub is so absurd I don't know how it ever gained traction and credibility.

But that's just how CVG started as a hub.........as a reliever for ATL.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
MSPNWA
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
I think it'll be down to 40-50 pretty shortly. The CRJ retirements are a major driver.

I agree on both counts. That's a 16.7% reduction just like that. And with a hub structure, that cut just compounds itself and leads to more in short order.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
CVG is also being pulled further down, and DTWHKG is canceled.

DTW-HKG is the big news. Interesting.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 29):
DTW-HKG is the big news. Interesting.

Is it really "cancelled" or is it just being made seasonal?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:18 pm

When do you think we can start a new thread called,"New WN Destinations from MEM"?
 
sr117
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 30):
Is it really "cancelled" or is it just being made seasonal?

It still seems to be showing up in schedules beyond August (September) for me.
 
point2point
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 28):
But that's just how CVG started as a hub.........as a reliever for ATL.

The only question that I would have with these relievers is it that MEM is #1 and CVG #2, or vice-versa?

At any rate, sad to see but I think that both MEM and CVG will soon be joining the ranks of PIT, STL, BNA, RDU, MKE, COS, MCI, and IND, just to name a few former hubs. The jury is still out with me with CLE since I think it's got enough of the basics needed to be a hub, yet geography is the factor working against it. CLT and SLC are a couple of others out there maybe to be watching.

Economy of Scales and Utility Maximization in action........



 
 
spiritair97
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 31):

My money is on very very soon.
 
flyguy89
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
CVG is also being pulled further down

What further cuts would that be? The CVG hub is really already as small as it could be.
 
Flighty
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:45 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
It's one out of every 6 DL flights. Kind of significant...I said months ago when they announced AMS would be "seasonally" suspended that it was a harbinger of a huge cut and got the usual fanboy responses that I was crazy.

Of course. This was part of the DL-NW merger. People knowledgable about the industry knew that MEM would become a defensive focus city and nothing more. The MEM hubbing is a cost with zero flow revenue to fund it. Zero!! Because it can all be recaptured at ATL.

But of course, to the sheeple in the government and so forth, DL denied they were planning the obvious. After all... in theory, a reduction in competitive outcomes would be an illegal result of a potential merger.
 
boeing6594
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:58 pm

Has DL given up any gates at MEM? If so, where?
 
compensateme
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting SR117 (Reply 32):

It still seems to be showing up in schedules beyond August (September) for me.

It's been pulled from the electronic timetable. Although still available for sale, DL will not sell less than a "B" fare.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
compensateme
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 35):
What further cuts would that be? The CVG hub is really already as small as it could be.

As small as it could be, seriously?

You do realize DL still serves places like GRR, GSO and GSP from CVG?
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
FWAERJ
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting boeing6594 (Reply 37):
Has DL given up any gates at MEM? If so, where?

IIRC, DL has consolidated at Concourse B at MEM. In other words, there's plenty of open gate space in A and C at MEM.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
flyguy89
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:15 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 39):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 35):
What further cuts would that be? The CVG hub is really already as small as it could be.

As small as it could be, seriously?

You do realize DL still serves places like GRR, GSO and GSP from CVG?

Yes I'm quite aware, and you do realize DL is only operating ~120 daily flights from CVG right? I would say that is about as small as a hub can be to still be banked and used as a connecting complex, so it isn't really possible for them to just come in and cut 25 flights and call it a hub. If they significantly cut anything further, that will be the day CVG becomes a spoke or DL announces 'new' focus city status for the airport.
 
compensateme
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:31 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 41):

Yes I'm quite aware, and you do realize DL is only operating ~120 daily flights from CVG right? I would say that is about as small as a hub can be to still be banked and used as a connecting complex, so it isn't really possible for them to just come in and cut 25 flights and call it a hub. If they significantly cut anything further, that will be the day CVG becomes a spoke or DL announces 'new' focus city status for the airport.

A "hub" merely enables connectivity. CVG could handle six flights per day -- for example, inbound arrivials from LGA, BOS & DCA connecting via CVG and continuing onto LAX, SFO & SEA -- and it'd still be functioning as a hub. There's no official definition as to what qualifies as a hub, focus city, etc. and thus the concept is heavily subjective and subject to interpretation.

What's not subjective as that as long as CVG's structured in flight banks designed to connect, it's functioning as a hub. And that can be done with 40, 60, 80, 100, 120 or 650 flights.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
michman
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:44 pm

STL was down to 82 flights a day before AA finally pulled the plug on the hub. While CVG and MEM are getting there, they are still above the limit of what one could still consider to be hubs.

[Edited 2012-06-22 16:53:34]
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 16):

AUG 29th looks like the last day.

Quoting mayor (Reply 28):

Yes but CVG could flow traffic from the NE to the west. MEM is nearly right on top of Atlanta and has pretty much the same traffic flows.
NYC and DTW are killing Cinny.

Quoting SR117 (Reply 32):

not planned to come back. Sad Delta can't make this market work. This is why I have said starting Asia from the west coast would likely give them a better chance.

Quoting mayor (Reply 30):

read above. Could change though.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 35):

ha. stick around, youll see that it can get smaller.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 36):

But of course, to the sheeple in the government and so forth, DL denied they were planning the obvious. After all... in theory, a reduction in competitive outcomes would be an illegal result of a potential merger.

They aren't as stupid as you make them out to be. Everyone knew CVG/MEM cuts were coming.

but hey. Keep MEM and CVG and just keep burning money, going back into BK, just so you can fly for cheap because airlines are a service and not a true business. *sigh* e

Quoting metjetCEO (Reply 10):

people can be so stupid sometimes. Now they will have no hub and higher fares.....fail.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
compensateme
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:25 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 44):

not planned to come back. Sad Delta can't make this market work. This is why I have said starting Asia from the west coast would likely give them a better chance.

How would starting Asia from the West Coast give DL a better chance? SEA has similar O/D to DTW, but signifiantly more compeition. LAX is saturated and significantly out of the way for DL's core Midwest/Eastern markets; connecting via NRT is more sensible.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 45):
connecting via NRT is more sensible.

And miss out on the high yields of the non-stop PAXs.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 45):

How would starting Asia from the West Coast give DL a better chance? SEA has similar O/D to DTW, but signifiantly more compeition. LAX is saturated and significantly out of the way for DL's core Midwest/Eastern markets;

Lower fuel cost and much better feed.
Some the largest marks to Asia have to back track to go to DTW. (and lets face it, United owns the east of the Mississippi to Asia.)
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
compensateme
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 46):
Some the largest marks to Asia have to back track to go to DTW. (and lets face it, United owns the east of the Mississippi to Asia.)

1. United does not own "east of the Mississippi to Asia."

2. Geographcilly, connecting through DTW to HKG is more advantagous for nearly every city east of Dallas.

3. Total trip time, connecting through DTW to HKG is more advantagous for nearly every city outside the Pacific Time Zone with direct service to DTW as connecting through SFO/LAX requires a double connection though SLC.

4. Much of the territory we're referring to produces little traffic to Asia, anyway.

5. SEA has similar overall O/D traffic levels to Asia as DTW, and significantly more compeition.

6. While LAX & SFO - HKG have oodles more O/D traffic to HKG as DTW, it'd be tough for DL to break into the market against UA, CX, etc.

7. While connecting via NRT to HKG has its disadvantages, if DL can't make DTW work, it's the best option and certainly better than the financial blood bath that would brew at LAX & SFO.

8. No reasonable high-yield passenger is going to travel NYC-LAX-HKG or ORD-SLC-SFO-HKG when faster, better alternatives exist.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
sr117
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:04 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 44):
not planned to come back. Sad Delta can't make this market work. This is why I have said starting Asia from the west coast would likely give them a better chance.

That's really too bad. I wonder what they'll do with the spare 777. Wish they would provide service from somewhere in the West Coast, the problem is where though.
 
United1
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RE: DL Cutting 25 More Flights In MEM

Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:12 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 47):
8. No reasonable high-yield passenger is going to travel NYC-LAX-HKG or ORD-SLC-SFO-HKG when faster, better alternatives exist.

You are correct they are more then likely going to fly UA or CX out of NYC or Chicago....it's no surprise that a route that depends so heavily on connections (vs O&D) is being cut when DL can simply flow those passengers via NRT.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 46):
United owns the east of the Mississippi to Asia.)

I don't know if I would go quite that far but they are certainly dominate US carrier service to China and HKG.
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