sq452
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2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:27 am

It's been about 2 months since the launch of 787 to the US and the first non-stop flight from Boston to Asia on JL's 787. I read that initial forward bookings back when the flight launched were healthy.

Anyone have an update as to how the flight is doing? What are the load-factors like, How many passengers O&D and how many connect to points elsewhere, cargo etc. etc. etc.

Sure the crews and airport staff are in a rhythm now. Sure this flight will be around for a long long time.
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JAAlbert
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:44 pm

Good question. I am boarding a UAL flight at BOS right now and the 787 just taxied by! I almost caused a scene but contained myself. I knew just by seeing the tail its a 787. Huge engines in comparison to the fuselage.
 
G500
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:32 pm

I hope JAL finds sucess at BOS

Don't know why but I feel JAL will do better at San Diego than Boston
 
penguins
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:46 pm

I lived in Boston and there were many Japanese people who I went to school with. They were going to Japan almost every summer and were usually doing so through ORD. It seems like there is a market in Boston from what I have observed.
 
flyby519
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:03 pm

I'd bet there would be a healthy amount of fresh tuna being shipped back as cargo to NRT.
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civetfive
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:36 am

There is probably significant first-mover advantage in being the only nonstop Asian service. Not sure how well JL would so side-by-side with, say KE, but for now its JL's market to lose.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:43 am

I finally got a great sight this past week of the 787 as it was passing overhead on approach to the 4's while I was sitting on the Neponset Bridge...my best friend commented on how "crazy the wings were curving"  

That's flex for ya   
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goboeing
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:38 am

It's almost more than just flexing on the 787...more like envisioning a model airplane made of something flexible hanging from the ceiling with fishing line tied to the wingtips.
 
Mcoov
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:47 am

So who's next into BOS? I'd heard of direct service to PEK on HNA, but that didn't work out.
 
trent1000
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:18 am

What I'd like to know, preferably from seasoned travellers who might be able to make a comparison, is if there is a discernible difference in the cabin humidity level corresponding to less dry nose/throat, & generally less effect from jet lag flying long haul across so many time zones. That's what a lot of Boeing's marketing promoted. Now, is the proof in the pudding??
 
mel
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:24 am

I flew the 787 from Frankfurt to Haneda, and no, there was no discernible difference in cabin humidity. Let's face it - your basically asking if there is a difference between 5% and 15%. 15% is still extremely low.
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tdscanuck
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting trent1000 (Reply 9):
What I'd like to know, preferably from seasoned travellers who might be able to make a comparison, is if there is a discernible difference in the cabin humidity level corresponding to less dry nose/throat, & generally less effect from jet lag flying long haul across so many time zones.

I absolutely notice the difference. I get completely dried out on normal aircraft for any flight over about 3 hours. I've gone over 18hrs on a 787 and noticed no significant drying.

Quoting MEL (Reply 10):
Let's face it - your basically asking if there is a difference between 5% and 15%.

I agree that's the question; it's obviously somewhat an individual effect but, for me, it makes a huge difference. Statistics are funny things...you can take the same number and say the 787 has three times as much moisture in the air.

Tom.
 
col
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:46 pm

Tom, How is the noise level in the cabin? I cannot wait to try the 787, as I hear some great things, but you seem to fly a lot so an idea would be great.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting col (Reply 12):
Tom, How is the noise level in the cabin?

It depends where you're sitting. Forward of the wing it's incredibly quiet (quietest Boeing I've ever flown). The engine noise is very low throughout. Aft of the wing you start to get more noticeable air noise and, at the extreme aft, you start to hear the supplemental cooling units. Overall it's quieter than any other Boeing and quieter than most Airbuses I've flown (but I haven't flown the A380).

There's also a pretty noticeable transient as the center hydraulic pumps spin up to high speed but that only happens at takeoff and approach when there's lots of other stuff going on anyway so I don't find it obtrusive for the majority of the flight.

Quoting col (Reply 12):
I cannot wait to try the 787, as I hear some great things, but you seem to fly a lot so an idea would be great.

I have a skewed impression since most of my time is on the flight deck (which is *by far* the quietest flight deck I've ever experienced) but I've gotten my share of cabin time and I find it very pleasant. The noise is low, the humidity and pressure are high; I get off a 787 feeling like I've just been at the office, rather than been on an airplane for hours.

Tom.
 
N766UA
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
Don't know why but I feel JAL will do better at San Diego than Boston

Dude have you ever been to Boston? You can't throw a stick without hitting a gaggle of Japanese tourists with their tiny new high tech cameras. I have a feeling the route is doing just fine.
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wjcandee
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:05 am

Couldn't agree with you more, Tom. Haven't flown the 787, but I think that most people would notice a 10% humidity difference. As an example, 55% is a pretty typical setting for a dehumidifier, and the humidity will swing a bit around that and end up with something at the fringe of okay. Let that 55% rise to 65%, most people are feeling pretty darn sticky. In my bedroom right now, the humidity is 51% and I'm comfortable-ish. An hour ago, it was at 58% and I turned on the air conditioner because it felt sticky. So 10% is a noticeable difference at the moist end of the spectrum. I have to believe that it's a godsend when it's bone-dry.

I think that the perception of this stuff probably varies from person-to-person, and the effects can be subtle. For example, I have flown the 717 a lot. In more recent years with FL, but back when I was flying TW a lot, I found myself connecting from DC9 to 717 or vise-versa not infrequently. After one of my first couple-hour flights on the 717, with the 100% fresh air and improved cabin environment control, I found myself feeling unusually...I don't know the exact word...maybe "fresh". I remembered thinking that it was an unusually-nice flight, and didn't give it too much more thought. A little later that evening, I remembered the allegedly-improved cabin environment, and connected it to that feeling. A few subsequent times, I had the same reaction, and each time it was getting off the 717 leg. It was subtle, but I have to believe it was a result of the improved system over the DC9. Of course, most people don't know what's going on with the aircraft systems, but it can't hurt the airline if pax get off the plane feeling good and like it was a nice flight.
 
justloveplanes
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:54 am

Physiology plays a part too I think. Long flights dehydrate me now, and I never noticed before.

Some people will notice more than others for sure, I can vouch for that.
 
MAV88
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:04 pm

I'd be interested to see how loads are doing now that the route has been running for 2 months. Once Massport releases their number for May we will be able to at least find out the load factor for the flights.
 
ORDJOE
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:21 pm

It is my understanding fares are really high for this route compared to if one connected through EWR or JFK. I could see this doing well, BOS has tons of biotech, venture capital and other finance, big name law firms, tech, and all the universities especially MIT and Harvard. Those types will pay the fares to avoid connections
Cargo could see doing well, especially overnight

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
Don't know why but I feel JAL will do better at San Diego than Boston

San Diego will probably do fine, but to me it seems that BOS is more of a business center whereas San Diego is more tourism. I could be wrong on that.
 
MAV88
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:13 pm

Massport released the May numbers for BOS. A total of 6,121 flew on the route during May. That works out to an average load of 180 passengers a flight, or a 96.7% LF.

Will be interesting to see how these number adjust since the flight went daily starting June 1.
 
wjcandee
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:58 am

Also not to be overlooked is the fact, as my Japanese friends have explained to me, that native Japanese, as a broad sweeping generalization, will go out of their way to fly a Japanese carrier. As I understand it, despite their best efforts, other nations' carriers have a hard time providing the kind of attentive, mannered customer service and interactions that Japanese folks expect to and do receive at home. My Japanese friends will notice, and not be pleased by, things like f/a's standing in the galley kvetching during a flight, or even just walking past them without acknowledging that they have a request. In other words, conduct by service professionals that we Americans would just roll our eyes at and blow off, native Japanese will see as moderately serious misconduct, and it grates on them. If they don't have to deal with it, they will take the opportunity not to. Accordingly, it doesn't surprise me that JAL can get a premium fare and high load factor when providing this nonstop, because if the hometown carrier also has the convenient nonstop flight, the folks originating in Japan would really prefer to use it.
 
col
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 13):
It depends where you're sitting. Forward of the wing it's incredibly quiet (quietest Boeing I've ever flown). The engine noise is very low throughout. Aft of the wing you start to get more noticeable air noise and, at the extreme aft, you start to hear the supplemental cooling units. Overall it's quieter than any other Boeing and quieter than most Airbuses I've flown (but I haven't flown the A380).

Thanks Tom, this is good news, was getting tired of all the white noise BS coming from some at Boeing. The 380 is very quiet, upstairs especially.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 13):
There's also a pretty noticeable transient as the center hydraulic pumps spin up to high speed but that only happens at takeoff and approach when there's lots of other stuff going on anyway so I don't find it obtrusive for the majority of the flight.

Pretty much same as all Airbus and Boeing, Airbus have that loud gear down locking sound to wake you up on approach, free wake up call.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 13):
The noise is low, the humidity and pressure are high; I get off a 787 feeling like I've just been at the office, rather than been on an airplane for hours.

Again, this is great news, I have this feeling when travelling on the 380, so the 787 sounds like it will offer an even better ride for long haul travellers. I hope the 777NG picks up the lessons learnt from the 787 and not the 77W, in terms of PAX comfort.

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 19):
Massport released the May numbers for BOS. A total of 6,121 flew on the route during May. That works out to an average load of 180 passengers a flight, or a 96.7% LF.

Great start, maybe they could look at direct NRT to BDL, will save me the tunnels and pike run.
 
ASA
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 19):
Massport released the May numbers for BOS. A total of 6,121 flew on the route during May. That works out to an average load of 180 passengers a flight, or a 96.7% LF.

Will be interesting to see how these number adjust since the flight went daily starting June 1.

That is HIGH ... great LF number!!! Meanwhile, BOS-NRT-??? fares on JAL or AA are still too high (beyond my reach   ) ... is that a sign of great demands and bookings for a while to come ... ... (and thus good load factors ahead as well?)


Edited for typoes

[Edited 2012-06-27 07:04:10]
 
JAAlbert
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:14 pm

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 18):
whereas San Diego is more tourism. I could be wrong on that.

San Diego is a big medical and technology research and development center. Qualcomm, which designs the chips that go in every cell phone in existence and many other electronics is headquartered here. Qualcomm alone sees many Asian visitors - engineers and marketing types - coming through its doors every day (per my partner who works there). I think JAL knew exactly what it was doing when it announced a non-stop flight!
 
SANMAN66
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 23):
Qualcomm, which designs the chips that go in every cell phone in existence and many other electronics is headquartered here. Qualcomm alone sees many Asian visitors - engineers and marketing types - coming through its doors every day (per my partner who works there). I think JAL knew exactly what it was doing when it announced a non-stop flight!

Qualcomm pretty much owns San Diego, especially in the Sorrento Valley area. More than half the skyscrapers
has the name "Qualcomm" on the side of them. As for flights, I've heard Qualcomm has their own fleet of private
jets to get the high-ranking executives around. JAL will also be available to connect the other Qualcomm employees
and other medical and technology firms with Japan. Also connecting navy personnel with military bases in the
Asia-Japan area.
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ECFlyer
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:39 pm

I work in Boston and tried to book BOS-NRT-HKG about a month ago (just to do it, and fly the long leg right out of Logan for once). I was unable to find any open J seats, to the point where I thought maybe the route was not yet live. Turns out J was fully booked for almost every day I tried.

I had to postpone the trip for other reasons, but will probably head out that way in a month or two. If I can get on JL's direct flight, and it's not way more expensive than UA BOS-EWR-HKG, I will do it.
 
SEPilot
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting col (Reply 21):
I hope the 777NG picks up the lessons learnt from the 787 and not the 77W, in terms of PAX comfort.

You will probably be disappointed. The main reason that the 787 was able to increase cabin pressure and humidity is the CFRP fuselage; the pressure because of the greater strength and better fatigue properties of the CFRP; the humidity due to the lack of corrosion problems with CFRP. They may be able to improve the 777NG marginally, but it will not be even close to the 787.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
col
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:37 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 26):
You will probably be disappointed. The main reason that the 787 was able to increase cabin pressure and humidity is the CFRP fuselage; the pressure because of the greater strength and better fatigue properties of the CFRP; the humidity due to the lack of corrosion problems with CFRP. They may be able to improve the 777NG marginally, but it will not be even close to the 787.

Thanks for heads up. I am hoping they get some internal noise out of it mostly. By this time there may be lots of 787/350/380 options, will be spoilt for choice.
 
SEPilot
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting col (Reply 27):
I am hoping they get some internal noise out of it mostly.

I suspect that most of the noise improvement on the 787 and A380 is because the engines themselves are so quiet. I would expect any new tech engine to be much quieter than what it replaces, so that will probably happen on the 777NG.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
WarmNuts
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RE: 2 Months On: JL Boston 787 Flights

Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 23):
San Diego is a big medical and technology research and development center. Qualcomm, which designs the chips that go in every cell phone in existence and many other electronics is headquartered here. Qualcomm alone sees many Asian visitors - engineers and marketing types - coming through its doors every day (per my partner who works there). I think JAL knew exactly what it was doing when it announced a non-stop flight!

Don't forget San Diego also has the largest biotech presence in the country (even larger than Boston), and in addition to Qualcomm, both Nokia and Sony maintain a significant presence in SD. Additionally, there are Japanese companies (e.g., Sanyo) who operate maquiladoras right acorss the border in TJ. I am confident the NRT-SAN flight will experience similar LF to the NRT-BOS route.