jigarciar
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 7:07 am

Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:16 pm

Just following the official entrance of Avianca and TACA into Star Alliance, according to El Espectador (Colombian newspaper), the airlines operating under the AviancaTaca holding will all become to operate under the brand Avianca in the very near future. This includes TACA and AeroGal but no reference is made to Tampa Cargo.

Here is the link (in Spanish):

http://www.elespectador.com/impreso/...vianca-se-quitara-el-apellido-taca
 
Summa767
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:57 pm

I would urge caution with this information. The official line has been that the decision to unify all the group airlines under one name is taken, but the decision on which name would happen in 2013, yet the only "newspaper " that has said that the brand will be Avianca is Bogota's El Espectador. I am afraid that Colombian newspapers are not to be trusted.

All other sources have mentioned reported that a name is yet to be chosen, and that it could be Avianca, Taca or something new. I believe that the chances are that El Espectador took it upon itself to arroganty assume that Avianca will be the chosen name, wrongly interpreting what AviancaTaca's CEO said about brand unification.

[Edited 2012-06-23 11:08:41]
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:16 pm

well all other than Avianca would be a big shame!

lets cross fingers.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Summa767
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):
well all other than Avianca would be a big shame!

You will find that Taca fans would disagree!
I personally think that Avianca would be a good choice, but regardless of that, the matter should be treated very sensitively. In Spanish forums this morning on the news ( or most likely pseudo-news) posted above, there were nasty posts demeaning of Taca by Avianca hooligans.
There are things that AV can learn from Taca, and not least on catering and service which is getting worse, not better on AV.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3003
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:54 pm

Considering that Avianca currently has a larger network and a more established name than TACA, it would make sense that the combined entity would keep the Avianca brand.

Even though it's not the same, when America West bought US Airways, they kept the latter's name because of the stronger brand recognition. It's just marketing, not an admission that one airline is better than the other.
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1109
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 1):
The official line has been that the decision to unify all the group airlines under one name is taken, but the decision on which name would happen in 2013

I would imagine integrating the operations, marketing and finances of several carriers in Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Costa Rica must be a very difficult and complex task indeed. In fact, the task must be even more daunting considering the eventual integration of AV Brasil, once it is formally acquired by the AV TA Holding.

Nonetheless, these people appear to be taking a very, very, very long time to implement the operational integration of all these various carriers. I mean, the acquisition was completed in 2009, almost three years ago! The management team is still figuring out what marketing name to use? Seriously, really?

UA immediately announced it would adopt the United name once the merger was announced in 2010. DL did the same with the NW in 2008. Of course, these were United States carriers, not a disparate group in various South and Central American nations. On the other hand, AF and KL continue to operate with independent marketing names, as do LH, LX and OS, etc and BA and IB.

But, what, exactly is holding Mr. Eframovich and his management team back? Is it politics, shareholders, bureaucracy, or what? These people are working at a snail's pace compared to their industry peers in North America.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 5):
Nonetheless, these people appear to be taking a very, very, very long time to implement the operational integration of all these various carriers. I mean, the acquisition was completed in 2009, almost three years ago! The management team is still figuring out what marketing name to use? Seriously, really?

Why Avianca ? Because its been arond since 1919 ? What does Avianca mean to a person in Costa Rica or Guatamala ? TACA is their airline. Here is a chance to build a new brand reflecting the whole of northern Latin America. The brand should reflect the whole group not only Colombia which is what "Avianca" is. The group should not have the " bagage " from AV. Just because Avianca is a well known brand and a historic one does not justify staying in the "past". 2019 is just 7 years away, let the new airline group have a name in the 21st century not one from the 20th.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5273
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
Why Avianca ? Because its been arond since 1919 ? What does Avianca mean to a person in Costa Rica or Guatamala ? TACA is their airline. Here is a chance to build a new brand reflecting the whole of northern Latin America. The brand should reflect the whole group not only Colombia which is what "Avianca" is. The group should not have the " bagage " from AV. Just because Avianca is a well known brand and a historic one does not justify staying in the "past". 2019 is just 7 years away, let the new airline group have a name in the 21st century not one from the 20th.

well these days Avianca's official Name is "Aerovias del Continente Americano" well actually not a bad name for an airline with subsidarrys all over the continent (at least south from Mexico till down to Brazil)
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:21 pm

Isn't LACSA also a part of TACA? Wouldn't LACSA also become Avianca?
 
A388
Posts: 7175
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:22 pm

As TA is also a very well known brand in the Americas, especially Central America, I would suggest the combined group to keep both the AV and the TA brand. Just as how KL and AF are operating. It will keep both sides happy.

A388
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 5):
Of course, these were United States carriers, not a disparate group in various South and Central American nations.

Care to elaborate on why this group is "disparate"? Sounds pretty arrogant of you to say, considering American carriers aren't top notch by any means. I mean, they integrated quicker, but - it by no means has made everything better for them.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
Why Avianca ? Because its been arond since 1919 ? What does Avianca mean to a person in Costa Rica or Guatamala ? TACA is their airline.

I get what you're saying, but Avianca has better brand recognition overall. TACA is a stronger brand in Central America, and Peru, but outside of that they're not. If we were to choose one brand name, Avianca's the winner. That being said, I personally think that the brands should remain separate. There's just to many countries involved.
"The low fares airline."
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 10):
Quoting PDPsol (Reply 5):Of course, these were United States carriers, not a disparate group in various South and Central American nations.
Care to elaborate on why this group is "disparate"? Sounds pretty arrogant of you to say, considering American carriers aren't top notch by any means. I mean, they integrated quicker, but - it by no means has made everything better for them.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume offence was intended. Personally, I felt that the point being made was the domestic mergers are always going to be more straightforward than cross border mergers . I feel this is a valid point as there are far more regulatory issues concerned as well as matters such as national pride. You have only to look at Europe where mergers such as AF/KL or BA/IB have not resulted in the disappearance of the brand of the smaller carrier to see that this is not unique to the Central/South American region.

While 'disparate' probably wouldn't have been the adjective I would have chosen there seems to me to be no malice intended.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
I wouldn't be so quick to assume offence was intended.
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
While 'disparate' probably wouldn't have been the adjective I would have chosen there seems to me to be no malice intended.

Would be great to hear from the poster. Of course, as happens on this site many times - because of your opinion that it wasn't malice, the poster whether intended or not, while go along with your perspective to garner support.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
I feel this is a valid point as there are far more regulatory issues concerned as well as matters such as national pride. You have only to look at Europe where mergers such as AF/KL or BA/IB have not resulted in the disappearance of the brand of the smaller carrier to see that this is not unique to the Central/South American region.

Agreed, which is why I wrote:

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 10):
That being said, I personally think that the brands should remain separate. There's just to many countries involved.
"The low fares airline."
 
CRFLY
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:06 pm

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:59 am

Well, this already happened to us in Central America in the 2000´s when TACA took over Aviateca, Nica and Lacsa, and merged everything into Grupo Taca, and then just TACA... So a new consolidation into a stronger brand looks like happening in the region every 10 years!

I guess we will soon listen to the departure announcement saying "Welcome aboard Avianca's flight 690, operated by LACSA" or "Welcome to El Salvador... For Avianca and this crew has been a real pleasure to have you onboard TACA's flight 571."

It's time for consolidation, and the name Avianca is the stronger of the two, and the one that has to stay (IMHO). But for operational reason, I guess the names TACA, LACSA and AeroGal will always be there, as these are the operators of the different routes.
With Age comes Wisdom...
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1109
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:05 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 12):
Would be great to hear from the poster.

I am the poster and I can categorically say no malice was intended from my earlier post. My point was that Avianca's carriers outside of Colombia were 'disparate' in that they operated various, unrelated routes in different markets with varied equipment. AV acquired AeroGal years ago when it flew 737-200 and 757-200 equipment. AV has worked to restructure 2K and introduce its A320 and A319 equipment and harmonize operations.

In Brasil, AV has been working with its affiliate, AV Brasil, to coordinate operations as well. AV TA Holding is working to 'acquire' O6 from its owner, Synergy SA, which also, of course, happens to be the primary shareholder in the Holding.

In addition AV works with all the TACA carriers in Peru and Central America to harmonize their systems, operations and finances. These efforts certainly take time and involve a lot of planning and coordination. Surely, AV TA Holding will be paying lots of fees to accountants, lawyers, management consultants, financial advisers, and marketing firms to perform this integration.

Having said that, it appears they are taking a very, very, very long time to simply announce their marketing name.
 
FlyingHollander
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:50 pm

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:20 pm

I'm absolutely not a fan of mergers especially when the original brands disappear. In the near future all that will be left in Latin America is LATAM and Avianca. Not too exciting if you ask me. I really hope that the involved airlines can proceed under their current brands. I would also love to see some smaller Latin American carriers gain some market share.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:53 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 15):

I'm absolutely not a fan of mergers especially when the original brands disappear. In the near future all that will be left in Latin America is LATAM and Avianca. Not too exciting if you ask me. I really hope that the involved airlines can proceed under their current brands. I would also love to see some smaller Latin American carriers gain some market share.


I could soooooo imagine them dumping "TAM" and just calling it LAN Brasil
 
danimarroquin
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:06 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:49 pm

I love it !!!!!! , Avianca is a great name and very well recognise name in the international market . It feels me with excitment and colombian proud . I'm sorry for the TACA fans , but now they can become Avianca fans .
 
jigarciar
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 7:07 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 20):
I believe some of TA's flights (like GUA-FRS) still operate under the Aviateca code.....Maybe what they ought to do is to make Avianca the "parent" company and have TACA as the "regional" name.

Should it be true that Avianca will be the brand to be used, this will not mean that the operating carriers will cese to exist. LACSA, TACA, AeroGal, Aviateca will all likely remain as the operators. In my view, the situation, in this case, will be as CRFLY mentioned it previously.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
Why Avianca ? Because its been arond since 1919 ? What does Avianca mean to a person in Costa Rica or Guatamala ? TACA is their airline. Here is a chance to build a new brand reflecting the whole of northern Latin America. The brand should reflect the whole group not only Colombia which is what "Avianca" is. The group should not have the " bagage " from AV. Just because Avianca is a well known brand and a historic one does not justify staying in the "past". 2019 is just 7 years away, let the new airline group have a name in the 21st century not one from the 20th.

It has to be a reason of marketing only, whether Avianca or not. Even though TACA itself is a very well recognized brand, it could have been that Avianca had a better weight for the plans of the holding. I do not think that a new brand will make sense when a brand has already been well recognized and has a very good reputation, as it is the case of Avianca.

[Edited 2012-06-25 14:47:01 by srbmod]
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2411
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 3):
Taca fans would disagree!

 
However, AV bears the 2/3 of shares belonging to Avianca - Taca Holding S.A.
In my view, they have the rights to choose the name of the final brand.




.

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 5):
I would imagine integrating the operations, marketing and finances of several carriers in Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Costa Rica must be a very difficult and complex task indeed

I would introduce a new situation: TACA gets several regional airlines in Central America operating domestic flights with small Cessna Grand Caravans, in most cases. What would it be the final name: Avianca Regional for the current TACA REGIONAL - SANSA from Costa Rica?  




.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
What does Avianca mean to a person in Costa Rica or Guatamala ? TACA is their airline

In general terms, TACA isn't precisely a brand identified with the feelings of Costa Ricans.
Perhaps it's a rather a matter of marketing the services of TACA into the unified brand called "AVIANCA."

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
av757
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:49 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:01 pm

You are all forgetting that the Efromovich brothers are the owners of Synergy Aerospace Group,
and they own Avianca; and also that they own 65% of the Avianca-Taca Holding.

AV757
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1109
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting AV757 (Reply 27):
You are all forgetting that the Efromovich brothers are the owners of Synergy Aerospace Group,
and they own Avianca; and also that they own 65% of the Avianca-Taca Holding.

We have not forgotten this

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 14):
In Brasil, AV has been working with its affiliate, AV Brasil, to coordinate operations as well. AV TA Holding is working to 'acquire' O6 from its owner, Synergy SA, which also, of course, happens to be the primary shareholder in the Holding.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
However, AV bears the 2/3 of shares belonging to Avianca - Taca Holding S.A.
In my view, they have the rights to choose the name of the final brand.

Recognizing this, there are several relevant issues associated with selecting a marketing name which have nothing to do with corporate governance and control. No one doubts Efromovich is the primary shareholder and exercises material control over the corporate activities of AV TA Holding and AV Brasil. Nonetheless, his interest is to maximize the value of his investment, just as any shareholder is interested in ensuring their wealth is enhanced. Therefore, as a rational investor, he will support decisions which appeal to his wallet, not his vanity his pride.

Selecting a marketing name is an important decision and the corporate world is full of ambitious efforts to introduce new brands, which oftentimes fail miserably. The decision should be evaluated solely in its economic and commercial merits. Should the management team determine AV fulfills those requirements best, so be it.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting jigarciar (Reply 20):
I do not think that a new brand will make sense when a brand has already been well recognized and has a very good reputation, as it is the case of Avianca.

Avianca is a "recognized " brand but that doesn't mean its "good". Avianca could be "good" by pre 2000 Latin American standards, but that was before LAN upped the standards. My standards are beyond Latin ones, Cathay Pacific is my standard , and by that measure AV has a lot of work to do. AS its consumer becomes more educated and affluent Avianca of Colombia is going to have to "give a dam".
 
A388
Posts: 7175
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 29):
Avianca is a "recognized " brand but that doesn't mean its "good". Avianca could be "good" by pre 2000 Latin American standards, but that was before LAN upped the standards. My standards are beyond Latin ones, Cathay Pacific is my standard , and by that measure AV has a lot of work to do. AS its consumer becomes more educated and affluent Avianca of Colombia is going to have to "give a dam".

It's a personal opinion on how someone sees an airline but it is overall known that AV isn't the AV of the '80's. LAN upped their standards, so did AV. On what is the "AV has a lot of work to do" based? Probably your own opinion? Consumers are becoming more educated and will see that AV is up to standard. Their inflight product and aircraft fleet now and in the future isn't anything short of what LAN has. So AV is "giving a dam".

A388
 
jfk777
Posts: 5840
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 30):
Their inflight product and aircraft fleet now and in the future isn't anything short of what LAN has. So AV is "giving a dam".

Every airline can buy the same airplanes, just because Thai Air is getting A380's doesn't mean its A380 are the same as Singapore Airlines A380's.
 
colinatl
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:25 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:52 pm

I've flown both Avianca and LAN all over Latin America. Avianca's service and in flight entertainment systems are much above LAN's in my opinion.
 
troest
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:08 pm

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 29):
Avianca is a "recognized " brand but that doesn't mean its "good". Avianca could be "good" by pre 2000 Latin American standards, but that was before LAN upped the standards. My standards are beyond Latin ones, Cathay Pacific is my standard , and by that measure AV has a lot of work to do. AS its consumer becomes more educated and affluent Avianca of Colombia is going to have to "give a dam".

In the Colombian domestic market, AV is far superior compared to LA. Besides frequencies and coverage, AV offers J class on all domestic flights, meaning that AV's entire narrowbody fleet is equipped with J seats and PTV's in J and Y. LA none. If LA uses narrowbodies on international flights, you will not find any options to fly in J nor PTV's in J and Y. Basically, LAN's J product and PTV's are only offered in their widebodies. Of course, there are still some service details AV could improve on. I think Avianca and the "brand" offers a great product in Latin American standards.

[Edited 2012-06-25 15:42:56]

[Edited 2012-06-25 15:48:59]
 
User avatar
viaggiare
Posts: 1424
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:34 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 3):
nasty posts demeaning of Taca by Avianca hooligans

As they say in Colombia, no me alegro pero siento un fresco. Avianca has a long and proud history.. can't blame its fans for demanding the AV corporate identity remains unchanged.


Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):
What does Avianca mean to a person in Costa Rica or Guatamala? TACA is their airline

Not really.. for many of us Costa Ricans and Guatemalans, the name TACA remains a nasty/sad reminder of how both LACSA and Aviateca, two fine and proud national flag carriers, were Salvadoranized.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2411
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:01 am

Quoting troest (Reply 26):
Besides frequencies and coverage, AV offers J class on all domestic flights, meaning that AV's entire narrowbody fleet is equipped with J seats and PTV's in J and Y. LA none. If LA uses narrowbodies on international flights, you will not find any options to fly in J nor PTV's in J and Y.

It's a good point !
For example, AV CLO-MDE-JFK is served with the narrow-body 318 and it's equipped with PTVs for the long sector between Medellin and New York City.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:23 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 28):
It's a good point !
For example, AV CLO-MDE-JFK is served with the narrow-body 318 and it's equipped with PTVs for the long sector between Medellin and New York City.

It is indeed, but the CLO-MDE-JFK flights are flown by A319s which are indeed equipped with PTVs, also on the MDE-CLO sector.
 
A388
Posts: 7175
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Avianca To Be The Only Brand Of Avianca-TACA

Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:43 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
Every airline can buy the same airplanes, just because Thai Air is getting A380's doesn't mean its A380 are the same as Singapore Airlines A380's.

jfk777, just compare the inflight product of AV and LAN, even a blind man will tell you they are equal. Reading post 26 even shows that the AV inflight product is better than LAN's.

A388

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 32andBelow, Baidu [Spider], BRADWHO, Devilfish, gatibosgru, hOMSaR, hoons90, Indy, intotheair, IPFreely, Jetty, MattSYD, PanzerPowner, PJ01, Shrimpo7 and 247 guests