Tobias2702
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Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:48 am

Hi, apologies if this should have been discussed at length before.

To my knowledge, LH is the only airline that has fitted its A340-600 aircraft with lower deck lavatories in order to increase seat capacity (LH is also the airline with most pax on this aircraft type). Obviously, other operators of that type are not interested in this configuration.

But why aren't there any other airliners that can be equipped with lavatories on the lower deck? I'm especially thinking about the A330, which is identical to the A340 in many aspects.
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sweair
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:54 am

I flew with a A330 with lower deck LAVs, a very cramped 332. Novair to Thailand from Arlanda, my last cattle class transport ever.
 
EBGARN
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:55 am

The A330-200 Novair operated had lower lav's, so I suppose the whole A330/340 family had it as an option.

It consumes quite a lot of cargo space though, I guess that is why LH only has it on the A346.
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mickey90
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:08 am

Thomas Cook Scandinavia also has lower deck lav's on their a332 but not on their a333 as far as I know. I once flew with their a332 from GOT to CUN and thought it was a cool option.

I think AI kept the option with the lav's on the lower deck when they took over Novair's a332's
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TSS
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:17 am

On the A330s and A340s equipped with lower deck lavs, are the lavs accessed by a stairway or by an elevator? Also, are all the lavs on these aircraft on the lower deck, or are there still some on the main deck as well?
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mickey90
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:40 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
On the A330s and A340s equipped with lower deck lavs, are the lavs accessed by a stairway or by an elevator? Also, are all the lavs on these aircraft on the lower deck, or are there still some on the main deck as well?

Lavatories on the lower deck are accessed by stairs and are for economy passengers. Business and first class passengers has their own lavatories on the main deck.
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1stfl94
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:55 am

Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
But why aren't there any other airliners that can be equipped with lavatories on the lower deck? I'm especially thinking about the A330, which is identical to the A340 in many aspects.

Quite simply because it eats up cargo capacity, yes you gain some more seats upstairs but the cargo loss is probably greater, especially if you also want the lower deck crew rest as well. The charter companies don't rely on cargo so that's why they have it installed and in LH's case only on the -600 because it's big enough to do both. Virgin, in typical fashion, promised lower deck sleeping cabins for upper class when they first ordered the -600 but (sensibly) realised there was more revenue in cargo down there.
 
Tod
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:45 pm

To increase containerized cargo space, DL is removing the crew rest from the aft cargo compartment on their A332 and converting the entire bulk cargo compartment into crew rest.

The reconfiguration will start in the spring of 2013.
 
caaardiff
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:10 pm

I'm not sure of the exact registrations, but i think all of the MyTravel A330-200's that are now with TCX were fitted with downstairs lavs.
The original TCX A330's didn't have them.
 
viscount630
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:10 pm

Virgin A340-600s have them as well  
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1stfl94
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting viscount630 (Reply 9):
Virgin A340-600s have them as well  

VS only have the crew rest compartment downstairs on the A346
 
Wingtips56
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:57 pm

It's unlikely a U.S. carrier would have lavs downstairs because of the A.D.A. Disabled people would not be able to use them.

I only see the lavs downstairs being an advantage for cattle-car ULCC and charter operators who don't carry cargo.
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Viscount724
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 11):
It's unlikely a U.S. carrier would have lavs downstairs because of the A.D.A. Disabled people would not be able to use them.

I doubt that would be a problem provided there was at least one lavatory on the main deck which disabled passengers could use. That's the case on LH A346s which have one Y class lavatory on the main deck in addition to the 5 downstairs. And the 2 F and 3 J class lavatories are all on the main deck.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:05 am

Are there any pics of the downstairs lavs?
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alphaomega
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:15 am

Quoting mickey90 (Reply 3):

Thomas Cook Scandinavia also has lower deck lav's on their a332 but not on their a333 as far as I know. I once flew with their a332 from GOT to CUN and thought it was a cool option.

The former MyTravel A332s all have lavs downstairs which occupy Hold 3, and leaves space for only 7 LD-3s in Hold 4 (only if the rear LD-3 in part of Hold 5 is fitted) - the other Thomas Cook a/c have the lavs in the cabin. The lavs downstairs were thought to increase seat capacity in the cabin, and are accessed via a stairway - only issue is there is a requirement to have 1 of the cabin crew downstairs to ensure nobody falls!
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:43 am

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 13):
Are there any pics of the downstairs lavs?

The stairs and one of the 5 lower-deck lavs on a LH A346.


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ferminbrif
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:29 am

In my opinion as a frequent economic fare traveler, it's much better lavatories in the lower deck in order to avoid annoying odor coming from the lavatories. Although I know airlines don't care about that but LH and some other.......
 
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:43 am

Quoting ferminbrif (Reply 16):
In my opinion as a frequent economic fare traveler, it's much better lavatories in the lower deck in order to avoid annoying odor coming from the lavatories.

There is that.

In my opinion, the biggest additional advantage of the downstairs lavatories is that they reduce waiting times. In a normal upstairs lavatory configuration, there's two or four lavatories or groups of lavatories. If you end up waiting in queue for one where someone is taking a long time, you'll have a long wait. With all the lavatories grouped downstairs, everyone is in the same queue and random variation in the waiting times averages out.

Plus I like the walk to the lower deck.
 
AddictedMAN
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:38 am

Quoting caaardiff (Reply 8):
I'm not sure of the exact registrations, but i think all of the MyTravel A330-200's that are now with TCX were fitted with downstairs lavs.

I have flown MAN-MBJ-MAN on G-MDBD a few years ago. That had downstairs lavs. Just 1 upstairs lav behind the cockpit for premier passengers and flight crew.
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 11):
It's unlikely a U.S. carrier would have lavs downstairs because of the A.D.A. Disabled people would not be able to use them.

Well I doubt this is the case as not a lot of US operate the A330 and certainly no one operates the A340.

There are lower lavatories in the A380s (EK, SQ, AF, LH, Korean, QF) lol since the A380 has literally 2 passenger floors. But, Im sure the poster meant on a one-level aircraft. 
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
I doubt that would be a problem provided there was at least one lavatory on the main deck which disabled passengers could use.

   There's no ADA problem with lower-deck lavs as long as you have an accessible lav or two.
 
Flyglobal
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:43 pm

Actually, since I once flew Economy on LHs 346 and know about the Lavs, when I fly Business, I still use the Economy Lavs downstairs (of course not in high frequent times).
I think the downstairs ones are better then LHs Business Lavs.

With the LAVs LH also has the Crew Rest and the ECO Kitchen down there. Food comes per elevator of course.

There is no one placed there to whatch downside, but one FA is around and from time to tome checks that there are not more then a no of passengers there (I think 5 or 6), due to oxigen masks limited.

regards

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coachclass
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RE: Why A340-600 Only A/c With Lower Deck Lav Option?

Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:58 pm

I have flown the LH 346 with the downstairs lavs. And it is correct that there is one at the rear of economy for disabled passengers.

While I think in theory that it's a great idea, in practice there are some problems. On one particular flight, there was the strong smell of urine downstairs. I wondered if there was an issue of the ability to properly clean that area or if there is inadequate ventilation. They have a small alcove where they put out some crackers.cookies for snacks and encourage people to stand down there around the toilets for passengers to stretch their legs. Ugh! There really is no other place to stand. The seating comfort on the LH A346 is seemingly the tightest in their fleet and if you sit on the inside of the four seat section, you really need to get out, especially if the person in front of your reclines his seat...and they always do. But, I have to admit that stairs in an airplane, A346 or B747, is kinda neat.

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