hoons90
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EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:14 am

Just came across an interesting picture of an Emirates ad in Seoul that advertises their flights to GRU, GIG and EZE. Does EK actually carry a lot of traffic between East Asia and South America? Where does most of the feed come from on DXB-GRU?

Would you consider EK as a viable option to get from East Asia to South America?

Here's the pic:

http://postfiles2.naver.net/20111206...460bhiK8_JPEG/P1050217.JPG?type=w1
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beowulf
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:33 am

Your link doesn't work properly.

Back to your question. Going via DXB might be a quicker way than going first to Europe and then to those destinations. Also, the Pacific route is not that favorable I believe.
 
Eightball
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:56 am

Quoting beowulf (Reply 1):
Also, the Pacific route is not that favorable I believe.

For travel from South Korea to Brazil, going via DXB is quicker than going via a transpacific route. For example, ICN-DXB-GRU is quicker than ICN-LAX-GRU.
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MaverickM11
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:04 am

The market is small but growing. EK gets a decent stab at it, but it's fairly fragmented between connections over Europe, North America, and the Middle East. There are currently plenty of connections over Europe that are shorter elapsed time than DXB, so EK doesn't have any particularly strong advantage.
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mdavies06
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:14 am

Oh yes. Transferring via the middle east is better for most of East Asia due to the location + I believe a portion of passengers transferring via the US would require a transit visa (passport holders from a selection of east asia and south american countries?).

EK is definitely a player for say ex-SIN and ex-HKG. I have done a search on the flights before from these cities.

However, despite this and all of the feed from South Asia, it is a very long sector and all three (EK, QR, EY) are committed to it, so there will be some competition. I'd also note that for North East Asia it is actually better to transfer in Europe location wise. This is the reason behind PEK-MAD-GRU by CA. Transferring via the ME is actually the further away option.
 
migair54
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:05 am

Japan-Brazil route and Korea-Brazil routes were usually very profitable routes, Air France used to make a lot of money out os this routes so i´m sure EK is doing good.

KE flies or used to fly (i´m not sure if they still do) ICN-LAX-GRU, and soon they are starting ICN-NBO and KQ is starting also NBO-GRU.... so i think they are looking to offer also this option to travellers via a big Skyteam hub.

Actually all the options are almost the same distance but maybe connecting via Dubai is the easiest one and more comfortable, better than LAX, CDG and FRA.
 
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:44 am

According to data available, the top markets for EK on the GRU route for the past year are as follows:

DXB
PVG
PEK
HKG
BOM
MNL
CAN
BKK
DEL
CGK
SIN
BLR
KUL

[Edited 2012-06-26 00:45:36]
 
incitatus
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting Eightball (Reply 2):
For travel from South Korea to Brazil, going via DXB is quicker than going via a transpacific route. For example, ICN-DXB-GRU is quicker than ICN-LAX-GRU.

No it is not.

On EK the ICN departure is 11:55 pm and the GRU arrival is 4:30 pm the next day. Add in 12 hours of time zones one gets 28:35 h.

On KE the ICN departure is 9:35 pm and the GRU arrival is 10:45 am the next day. Total 25:10 h.

The timings and the elapsed time difference are significant. Flying in on KE in a premium cabin it is possible to arrive at GRU and have a meeting scheduled for 1 pm. Flying in on EK means work only starts the next day.
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seabosdca
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:48 pm

Flying from East Asia to South America, because those areas are roughly halfway around the world from each other, you can fly west or east sensibly. It's a good market for EK to muscle into.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):
The timings and the elapsed time difference are significant. Flying in on KE in a premium cabin it is possible to arrive at GRU and have a meeting scheduled for 1 pm. Flying in on EK means work only starts the next day.

People always say things like this, but does anyone really do it when the trip is this long? I'd be committing malpractice if I tried to represent clients in a meeting immediately following 27 hours of travel.

[Edited 2012-06-26 07:50:36]
 
AF086
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):
On EK the ICN departure is 11:55 pm and the GRU arrival is 4:30 pm the next day. Add in 12 hours of time zones one gets 28:35 h.

On KE the ICN departure is 9:35 pm and the GRU arrival is 10:45 am the next day. Total 25:10 h.

The timings and the elapsed time difference are significant. Flying in on KE in a premium cabin it is possible to arrive at GRU and have a meeting scheduled for 1 pm. Flying in on EK means work only starts the next day.

KE only offers 3x weekly services which limits the flexibility it can offer to pax. And they only serve GRU in the continent. EK serve not only GRU but GIG and EZE which spare pax heading to these destinations of another connection (at GRU).

ICN-GRU:
KE - KE061 - ICN 2135 1045 GRU - 25h10 - MoWeFr (Stops at LAX)

EK - EK323 - ICN 2355 0425 DXB // DXB 0835 1630 GRU - 28h35 - DAILY

Delta via DTW takes 26h, LH via FRA 27h and QR via DOH 27h35. So EK isn't even the second fastest option and all of the offerings (except KE's) are daily flights.

ICN-GIG
EK takes 26h35, AF 28h and that's it. The other options involve a combination of airlines.

ICN-EZE
LH takes 28h50, EK 31h40 and QR 31h55.

So I guess that as far as GIG is concerned EK provides great advantage from ICN specially due to the lack of competition. At GRU the competition is stiff (and will get worse with EY entering the market). At EZE EK already faces its nemesis: QR.
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dynkrisolo
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):
No it is not.

On EK the ICN departure is 11:55 pm and the GRU arrival is 4:30 pm the next day. Add in 12 hours of time zones one gets 28:35 h.

On KE the ICN departure is 9:35 pm and the GRU arrival is 10:45 am the next day. Total 25:10 h.

The timings and the elapsed time difference are significant. Flying in on KE in a premium cabin it is possible to arrive at GRU and have a meeting scheduled for 1 pm. Flying in on EK means work only starts the next day.

Partially true. But you're comparing KE's eastbound flight (with tailwinds) against EK's westbound flight (against winds). On the returning journey, the total elapsed time is about the same. EK has long layovers at DXB both ways. For some people this is not always a minus.

More importantly, KE's flight is only three times a week while EK's is daily. For a businessman, not being restricted to which day one can travel is probably much more important than being able to make an afternoon meeting or not.

It is also a hassle that some people might need a transit visa at LAX to take the KE flight between ICN and GRU.
 
incitatus
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting dynkrisolo (Reply 10):
Partially true. But you're comparing KE's eastbound flight (with tailwinds) against EK's westbound flight (against winds). On the returning journey, the total elapsed time is about the same

I just provided evidence that am inacurate statement was made. Nothing had been said about the return trip or travel hassles or frequency.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 8):
People always say things like this, but does anyone really do it when the trip is this long? I'd be committing malpractice if I tried to represent clients in a meeting immediately following 27 hours of travel.

People have different jobs, priorities, flexibility and tolerance for air travel and swapping time zones. I just had a friend travel JFK-GRU overnight coach (J was booked up) and travel back in J without spending a single night in SP. She worked all day in SP. She's got two kids and didn't have the flexibility to travel a day earlier. She landed in NY and took the day off. If she could not do this she would have already quit her job.
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seabosdca
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):
People have different jobs, priorities, flexibility and tolerance for air travel and swapping time zones. I just had a friend travel JFK-GRU overnight coach (J was booked up) and travel back in J without spending a single night in SP. She worked all day in SP.

Coming off a 10-hour flight and immediately working is very different than coming off two flights lasting a total of 26-28 hours -- also after leaving in the evening -- and working. I could see doing the first in a pinch, especially if flying in J. I could absolutely not do the second, and my feeling is that anyone who thinks he or she can is creating a liability for the employer.

[Edited 2012-06-26 09:28:44]

[Edited 2012-06-26 09:30:28]
 
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coronado
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:34 pm

For a South American going to Asia avoiding the hassles of getting a transit visa to connect via LAX or DTW is probably worth it. Besides about $120.00 in fees to the US consulate, you have to personally go to the US consulate for an interview, and the consulate only has interview sessions between 8 am and 11 am. And whether travelling through Dubai is 1 to 3 hours longer than taking Korean through LAX or Delta through DTW, you also get a nice block of time to stretch ones legs at DXB--certainly more pleasant than LAX, and probably better than DTW.
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:38 pm

The fact the US mandates a transit visa should take KE and DL out of the running for those business people who need to travel between S.American and Korea.

The added hassle of going to a U.S. Consulate for a "personal interview" and also paying $120 in fees for the "privilege" of changing planes seems silly.
 
AF086
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting Coronado (Reply 13):
For a South American going to Asia avoiding the hassles of getting a transit visa to connect via LAX or DTW is probably worth it. Besides about $120.00 in fees to the US consulate, you have to personally go to the US consulate for an interview, and the consulate only has interview sessions between 8 am and 11 am.

Precisely and that undermines KE's services to GRU. That and the 3x weekly schedule. Pax needing more flexibility, flying to places other than GRU (GIG, EZE, SCL for instance) and those without US visas will take their money to other airlines such as EK, QR, AF, KL, LH, BA and even JJ and LA who offer asian connections though alliance partners in Europe.

The need for a US visa even for transit pax is said to be one of the factores that killed JL's GRU services as well since it stopped at JFK.
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mogandoCI
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:49 pm

There's also Turkish Airlines ICN-IST-GRU for those who want to accrue Star Alliance miles but avoid LH
 
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lightsaber
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 6):
DXB
PVG
PEK
HKG
BOM
MNL
CAN
BKK
DEL
CGK
SIN
BLR
KUL
Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 14):
The added hassle of going to a U.S. Consulate for a "personal interview" and also paying $120 in fees for the "privilege" of changing planes seems silly.

Why do we do that to people? I realize 9/11, but it is killing international hubbing in the USA.

Quoting Coronado (Reply 13):
And whether travelling through Dubai is 1 to 3 hours longer than taking Korean through LAX or Delta through DTW, you also get a nice block of time to stretch ones legs at DXB--certainly more pleasant than LAX, and probably better than DTW.

Not to mention, as you alluded, the time to do that interview. 1 to 3 hours is nothing for that long of a trip. However, if the person doesn't have lounge access, the experience at DTW should be a little less crowded than DXB. Until Concourse 3 opens.   The comfort of DXB cycles. Its great when new space opens and then as traffic increases it goes towards crowded. I've been reading the trip reports and the concourses are getting quite crowded (but the lounges seem nice). With the opening of concourse 3 and its two transit hotels, the experience will be roomy again at DXB.

Then the cycle repeats, until the opening of the next concourse...
Then we wait for EK to transfer to DWC. Due to the costs, I expect that to be delayed.
So the question becomes, how is TK doing competing?   
I only see San Paulo on TK's South American route map. Did I miss others? Or is this somewhere TK should grow?   


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AF086
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:46 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 17):
I only see San Paulo on TK's South American route map. Did I miss others? Or is this somewhere TK should grow?

No you don't. They only serve GRU so far. EZE is rumoured to be next as a tagon from GRU. If you ask me TK should consider GIG as well specially due to the strong economical expansion the city faces.
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:59 pm

Whenever I hear of EK to Brazil, I wonder when GRU will see the A380. IMHO, GRU will see the A380 before my home airport of LAX.   But then again, so should IAH and those A380s will not be delivered until sometime next year...

Quoting AF086 (Reply 18):
EZE is rumoured to be next as a tagon from GRU. If you ask me TK should consider GIG as well specially due to the strong economical expansion the city faces.

I 100% agree. I was surprised not to see either EZE or GIG from IST on TK's route map. I'll let those at TK who have more information than I do make that decision. But further South American expansion is in order.

The EK vs TK vs QR vs EY is going to be interesting over the next decade. If the new 5-runway Istanbul airport is built, I see TK having the advantage in growth.

Right now IST has the advantage of 185 connected cities to 175 at DXB (see updated post #29)
Airports With Greatest Number Of Connected Cities (by lightsaber May 14 2012 in Aviation Polls)

Since this is an EK thread, it seems like they would have expansion opportunities to South America. MIA, MEX, or PTY would be my guesses for further expansion. Yes, MIA would only be for the hubbing, so it would be a question if IB/AA would want the business. I'm not sure who EK would partner with at MEX today... but PTY could also be an opportunity.

With both IST and DXB, I see numerous cities in China that I believe are past due for connections. Is it a bilateral issue? Any links are appreciated.

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AF086
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 19):
Since this is an EK thread, it seems like they would have expansion opportunities to South America.

I see SCL, BOG and LIM as natural new destinations for EK in South America. SCL probably cannot be made nonstop (it's 700nm longer than DXB-LAX) but it could be served as a tagon from BOG diluting the risks of opening the new destination all by itself.

LIM also seems to be very far from DXB as well, perhaps it could be served as a tagon from CCS or PTY.

BOG has the runway/altitude problem. I don't know how that would work out for EK.

[Edited 2012-06-26 13:40:11]
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting AF086 (Reply 15):
JJ and LA who offer asian connections though alliance partners in Europe.

LA does not link up with any alliance partners in Europe for Asian connections. For connections between SCL and Asia via Europe, the only choice from SCL is to fly on AF and connect via CDG. LA routes passengers onto CX via AKL and QF/BA/CX/JL via SYD.
 
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 21):
For connections between SCL and Asia via Europe, the only choice from SCL is to fly on AF and connect via CDG. LA routes passengers onto CX via AKL and QF/BA/CX/JL via SYD.

I thought that was the whole point of SFO?
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SonomaFlyer
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:42 pm

LAN goes to SFO via LIM so I'm not sure there would be a point to a SFO routing; they could also connect via LAX though I think a routing via AKL or even SYD might be just as efficient if not more so.
 
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
I thought that was the whole point of SFO?

LIM-SFO is a code-share with only CX. LA has interline agreements with CA, UA, JL, etc. at SFO. At JFK, LA code-shares with CX and JL. At LAX, LA code-shares with CX, JL and KE. CX, JL and KE also place their respective codes on the SCL-LIM-LAX route. Interestingly, LA recently hired several Japanese speaking cabin attendants at LIM.
 
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:19 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 24):
Interestingly, LA recently hired several Japanese speaking cabin attendants at LIM.

It would be interesting to see if the numbers indicate enough traffic for either a SCL or LIM to NRT routing on a LAN 787 a few times per week.
 
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 6):
According to data available, the top markets for EK on the GRU route for the past year are as follows:

I'm curious about the source for this.
 
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 25):
It would be interesting to see if the numbers indicate enough traffic for either a SCL or LIM to NRT routing on a LAN 787 a few times per week.

There is size-able traffic between LIM and NRT. LAN routes pax traveling between LIM and NRT via LAX and JFK on code-share flights operated by JAL. LAN also routes pax traveling between LIM and NRT via LAX on flights operated by KE and AA.
 
luckyone
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:38 am

Quoting dynkrisolo (Reply 10):
It is also a hassle that some people might need a transit visa at LAX to take the KE flight between ICN and GRU.

South Korea is now part of the Visa Waiver Program.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 15):
The need for a US visa even for transit pax is said to be one of the factores that killed JL's GRU services as well since it stopped at JFK.

Japan has been part of the VWP since 1988. The length and an ever-increasing cost structure are the culprits.
 
AF086
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:54 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 28):
Japan has been part of the VWP since 1988. The length and an ever-increasing cost structure are the culprits.

Yes but Brazil isn't and this route had high percentage of brazilian pax. The US demand for visa even for transit pax was one of the things that made brazilian pax choose elsewhere to make their connections, namely Europe.
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incitatus
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:43 am

Quoting AF086 (Reply 29):
The US demand for visa even for transit pax was one of the things that made brazilian pax choose elsewhere to make their connections, namely Europe.

Sorry but this is really not accurate. A lot of Brazilians who travel internationally have US visas. Just the Sao Paulo office processes more than 10 thousand visas per week. That is half million per year. There are millions of Brazilians with valid US visas. Most who travel for business to different destinations will have US visas for one reason or another. Sure, I believe many Brazilians who travel to Asia and have no plan to come to the USA will choose a non-US routing. I find hard to believe there are large numbers of those people.
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Eightball
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:49 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):
The timings and the elapsed time difference are significant. Flying in on KE in a premium cabin it is possible to arrive at GRU and have a meeting scheduled for 1 pm. Flying in on EK means work only starts the next day.

That's interesting. I was only comparing the total distances of these two routes:

ICN-DXB-GRU: 11780 miles
ICN-LAX-GRU: 12150 miles
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coronado
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 30):
There are millions of Brazilians with valid US visas. Most who travel for business to different destinations will have US visas for one reason or another. Sure, I believe many Brazilians who travel to Asia and have no plan to come to the USA will choose a non-US routing. I find hard to believe there are large numbers of those people.

For the sake of saving 1-3 hours would it be more pleasant to spend some quality time with US Immigration and US airport transit facilties compared to transit passenger friendly, duty free paradise that is DXB?  

DTW (or Toronto) should be the natural hubs for south american traffic to NE Asia but because of the way we treat visitors they are loosing presence.
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DTWLAX
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:13 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 30):
Sorry but this is really not accurate. A lot of Brazilians who travel internationally have US visas. Just the Sao Paulo office processes more than 10 thousand visas per week. That is half million per year. There are millions of Brazilians with valid US visas. Most who travel for business to different destinations will have US visas for one reason or another. Sure, I believe many Brazilians who travel to Asia and have no plan to come to the USA will choose a non-US routing. I find hard to believe there are large numbers of those people.

If it is not accurate do you have data to backup your statement's accuracy? How do you know millions of Brazilians have a US visa? And to your point, a business visa does not entitle you to transit through USA. If you do not have the supporting documents to prove you are entering USA for business, you are not getting any further from the CBP.
 
AF086
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:41 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 30):
Sorry but this is really not accurate. A lot of Brazilians who travel internationally have US visas. Just the Sao Paulo office processes more than 10 thousand visas per week. That is half million per year. There are millions of Brazilians with valid US visas. Most who travel for business to different destinations will have US visas for one reason or another. Sure, I believe many Brazilians who travel to Asia and have no plan to come to the USA will choose a non-US routing. I find hard to believe there are large numbers of those people.

Much of these visas are not new ones but reissuing expired ones.

Before the transit visa demand american airlines had large number of brazilian pax connecting to Asia but these days numbers dropped considerably. I don't think it's a coincidence.

Quoting Coronado (Reply 32):
For the sake of saving 1-3 hours would it be more pleasant to spend some quality time with US Immigration and US airport transit facilties compared to transit passenger friendly, duty free paradise that is DXB?

Precisely. Even if you have a visa, why would you do though all of that hassle to make a connection when you can do it MUCH easier (and better treated) elsewhere?

Quoting Coronado (Reply 32):
DTW (or Toronto) should be the natural hubs for south american traffic to NE Asia but because of the way we treat visitors they are loosing presence.

Agreed. DTW could serve as an gateway to Asia for South America pax but apparently ths US government thinks otherwise. Too bad. These citizens are spending their money on non-US carriers at non-US airports.
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incitatus
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 33):
If it is not accurate do you have data to backup your statement's accuracy?

You need to ask yourself if you have data to back up your point as well.

Most US visas are valid for 5 or 10 years. The surge in applications preceding peak-seasons points to a large number of those visas being tourist visas. At the rate visas are processed, there are millions of Brazilians with valid US visas. On top of that, there is a fair number of upper middle-class Brazilians with EU passports. Would you like to contest any of these statements?

What counter-points have been offered? Getting a US visa is a pain. Sure.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 34):
Before the transit visa demand american airlines had large number of brazilian pax connecting to Asia but these days numbers dropped considerably. I don't think it's a coincidence.

I am being asked if I have data.

Like I said, a US visa probably plays a role for a minority.

Also think of the old days. Varig had GRU-LAX-NRT daily and served Japan for decades. JAL also served Brazil through the US. Those services are gone and now we have carriers from the Middle-East serving GRU with a focus on Asia connections.

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 33):
How do you know millions of Brazilians have a US visa?

Are you just nit-picking? If you want this burden of proof from someone else, you better come up with real good evidence to support your point as well.

SP Consulate processes 2300 visas per day. Rio Consulate is not far behind, I believe it is 1500 but AF086 probably has the right number. Then there are consulates in Brasilia and Recife. 15 thousand visas per week is a low-ball estimate. Times 50 weeks it is ~750k visas issued per year. Since mid-2010 maximum validity is 10 years.

This link has a few large numbers: http://operacoescambiais.terra.com.b...isto-americano-cresceu-em-2011-378
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 35):
Also think of the old days. Varig had GRU-LAX-NRT daily and served Japan for decades. JAL also served Brazil through the US.

Yes but back in the day the US didn't require visas for transit pax. If you read my posts you'll see that I didn't blame solely the visa. I said that it was one of the factors that sent the flight into oblivion.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 35):
I believe it is 1500 but AF086 probably has the right number.

Last month (may) the numbers were:

São Paulo - 2345 visa applications per day ( +22% compared to MAY/11)
Rio de Janeiro - 840 ( -14%)
Brasília - 349 (-29%)
Recife - 253 (-35%)

Visas issued in may:

São Paulo - 49253 (+22% compared to may/11)
Rio de Janeiro - 17698 (-14%)
Brasília - 7330 (-29%)
Recife - 5306 (-35%)

Visas issued from Jan to May/12

São Paulo - 235184 (+44% when compared with the same period of 2011)
Rio de Janeiro - 142244 (+69%)
Brasília - 62074 (+23%)
Recife - 40173 (+3%)

There are no statistics of which of these visas are renewed or brand new ones.
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dynkrisolo
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 35):
Like I said, a US visa probably plays a role for a minority.

Check this 2004 news article explaining why IB closed their MIA hub.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-07-05-iberia-mia_x.htm

Quote:

Also think of the old days. Varig had GRU-LAX-NRT daily and served Japan for decades. JAL also served Brazil through the US. Those services are gone and now we have carriers from the Middle-East serving GRU with a focus on Asia connections.

Nitpicking: RG did have daily service to Japan, but never GRU-LAX-NRT. The daily operation was split between NRT and NGO.

One advantage that the ME carriers have is serving many Asian cities with one-stop service between Asia and Brazil. KE could only provide one-stop service for people in Korea. People in HKG, PVG, etc., would require two stops if they fly KE.

Also, going back to your original argument:



Quoting incitatus (Reply 7):
The timings and the elapsed time difference are significant. Flying in on KE in a premium cabin it is possible to arrive at GRU and have a meeting scheduled for 1 pm. Flying in on EK means work only starts the next day.

Even if we ignore the frequency advantage that EK has and the visa hassle via US, the schedule on the return direction works against KE. The total elapse time is 55 minutes longer for KE. It's a noon departure (namely, a work day in Brazil is probably wasted) and a pre-dawn arrival (potentially extra day of hotel charge and a loooooooong day adjusting jet lag). EK's midnight departure and late afternoon arrival is probably more preferable for most business people and leisure travelers.
 
incitatus
Posts: 2691
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RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting dynkrisolo (Reply 37):
Even if we ignore the frequency advantage that EK has and the visa hassle via US, the schedule on the return direction works against KE. The total elapse time is 55 minutes longer for KE. It's a noon departure (namely, a work day in Brazil is probably wasted) and a pre-dawn arrival (potentially extra day of hotel charge and a loooooooong day adjusting jet lag). EK's midnight departure and late afternoon arrival is probably more preferable for most business people and leisure travelers.

Yes the KE schedule in the other direction is not good. I do not find GRU departures after 11 pm particularly attractive. For GRU-DXB a meal gets served what, at 3 am?
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sydaircargo
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:45 am

RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:18 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Thread starter):
Would you consider EK as a viable option to get from East Asia to South America?

why not ? Air China flys BJS via MAD to GRU
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1823
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 38):
Yes the KE schedule in the other direction is not good. I do not find GRU departures after 11 pm particularly attractive. For GRU-DXB a meal gets served what, at 3 am?

But it's recommended that one should adjust to the local time of one's destination while on board. Then 3 am in Brazil would be early morning in UAE or early afternoon in Korea.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18858
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 35):
Varig had GRU-LAX-NRT daily and served Japan for decades.

For most of the years Varig served Japan they were much less than daily. As late as 1996 they were only 3 per week. When did it become daily?
 
hoons90
Posts: 3116
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:15 am

Thanks for the informative replies guys!

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 41):
For most of the years Varig served Japan they were much less than daily. As late as 1996 they were only 3 per week. When did it become daily?

Right before RG dropped their NGO route circa 2003, it was 4x weekly GRU-LAX-NRT and 3x weekly GRU-LAX-NGO, all on MD-11s. If those flights operated on alternate days (which I would presume), then they did indeed serve Japan as a whole on a daily basis.
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FlyboyOz
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:13 am

Varig did fly from Brazil to Hong Kong via Johnnesburg.

Why Varig Stopped To Fly To Hk?!?! (by Rbirtel Dec 10 2001 in Civil Aviation)
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fly2yyz
Posts: 644
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

RE: EK From Korea To Brazil/Argentina

Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:30 am

Hmmm, I would like to chime in and ask maybe KE is happy with their loads from Asia-ICN-LAX, and is mainly aiming for LAX-GRU-Brazil traffic instead? I mean there still is no other competitor if I remember...

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