RCS763AV
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#10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:46 am

To start off thread #10, here's an article from La República stating many facts about the entry into operation of the new terminal in BOG, which is the biggest deal right now in colombian aviation, now that Viva is finally flying:

http://www.larepublica.com.co/node/13485

AV and AA will have lounges at the new terminal, much bigger ones also! CM and LA are also interested but haven't sent a formal applicaiton to OPAÍN.

To a good discussion, now that we've made it to the double digits!.

[Edited 2012-06-26 04:47:44]
 
bogota
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:25 pm

Formal applications can not be sent yet, OPAIN is only dealing with office space and lounges according to what already exists. Basically to be fair and square the existing operators of lounges have been assigned lounges, the existing operators of office space have been assigned office space. Once that is finalized they will open a bid process for new operators of office and lounge area in the international concourse. LAN has been acquiring extra office space in the existing building and will probably operate the AA lounge for its domestic operations once the existing international terminal becomes domestic, that way they can ensure also a lounge at the new domestic terminal, just as Avianca and Copa will have as they operate a lounge for their domestic flights also.

I have also heard that LAN Colombia will operate 3 B767 quite soon, two brand new ones and one inherited from LAN Chile. These will operate to LAX, GRU and MAD. The MIA flight will be operated by a SCL based 767 but with BOG based crew on the MIA sector, basically doing SCL-BOG-MIA-BOG-SCL. I have also heard SFO as a possible flight together with GIG, so basically BOG, up to what I am understanding, is beginning to plan its international hub as Brazil-US connecting center. GRU and LAX will also be operated in the same plane as I understand: GRU-BOG-LAX.
 
SCL767
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:42 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
I have also heard that LAN Colombia will operate 3 B767 quite soon, two brand new ones and one inherited from LAN Chile. These will operate to LAX, GRU and MAD. The MIA flight will be operated by a SCL based 767 but with BOG based crew on the MIA sector, basically doing SCL-BOG-MIA-BOG-SCL.

Fantastic news Bogota! The BOG based crews have been training here in Santiago for a while now. I've never seen the training facilities so busy. Also, I often fly on the SCL-BOG-MIA route and enjoy that flight! Passengers will enjoy the new products and the new Premium Business and Economy Classes that LAN has introduced on the brand new B-767-316ERs!

Saludos,
 
falkerker
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:56 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
have also heard SFO as a possible flight together with GIG

Thank god they´re starting non-stop BOG-West coast routes again. It´s a pain having to go through central america to get there via AV TA. Although, to SCL767´s sadness I prefer AV TA to LAN any day of the week (unless I can get there non-stop)
 
SCL767
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
I have also heard SFO as a possible flight together with GIG

This route would complement the GRU-LIM-SFO route. However, are you sure that LAN will operate it instead of TAM?

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
GRU and LAX will also be operated in the same plane as I understand: GRU-BOG-LAX.

This routing will complement the existing SCL-LIM-LAX and EZE-LIM-LAX routes.
 
bogota
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
This route would complement the GRU-LIM-SFO route. However, are you sure that LAN will operate it instead of TAM?

SFO as a destination is flight crew gossip so we can take it with a grain of salt. But what they said it would be a GIG-BOG-SFO which could compliment the GRU-LIM-SFO very nicely. The GRU-BOG-LAX is confirmed not sure if late 2012 or early 2013. The MIA is also confirmed, as said with a SCL based 767, SCL crew would operate the SCL-BOG-SCL sectors, BOG crew would operate the BOG-MIA-BOG sectors. MAD would come next, so would JFK. For those of you that love thinking about rotations, how many frequencies could those 767 do on these routes? Condorx?
 
RCS763AV
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
Basically to be fair and square the existing operators of lounges have been assigned lounges, the existing operators of office space have been assigned office space. Once that is finalized they will open a bid process for new operators of office and lounge area in the international concourse.

Thanks for the info. The new Avianca lounge will have 2000 sq meters, how big is the current facility, around 500-600? AA's lounge will be 700 sq m and the current facility has no more than 300 sq m. It will be a very big improvement.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
LAN has been acquiring extra office space in the existing building and will probably operate the AA lounge for its domestic operations once the existing international terminal becomes domestic, that way they can ensure also a lounge at the new domestic terminal, just as Avianca and Copa will have as they operate a lounge for their domestic flights also.

Interesting and intelligent use of the current AA lounge.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
These will operate to LAX, GRU and MAD.
LAX is badly needed! It's ridiculous to have to go through damn SJO and SAL! There is demand! Also, even if it's old news, MAD will be a welcome addition too.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
The MIA flight will be operated by a SCL based 767 but with BOG based crew on the MIA sector, basically doing SCL-BOG-MIA-BOG-SCL.

Finally, so they can offer a decent product! More capacity on the BOG- South Florida sector is also welcome.

BOG - MIA now has

AA 1x 763, 1x 757, 1x 738
AV 1x 332, 1x 320
LA 1x 320

BOG-FLL now has

AV 1x 320
B6 1x 320
NK 1x 320

Quoting Bogota (Reply 1):
I have also heard SFO as a possible flight together with GIG,

Those seem a bit far fetched.

[Edited 2012-06-26 07:03:18]
 
777jaah
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 2):
I've never seen the training facilities so busy

You have access to those facilities?? Are you a LAN employee?? Please, I will hear to elaborate from you about you seeing these facilities....

Quoting Bogota (Reply 5):
However, are you sure that LAN will operate it instead of TAM?

You tell us, you're the one who seems to have access to very specific LAN information/facilities.



About AV exercising 3 options on the 787s.....good for them, good for the LIM widebody base (despite whatever type they end up getting, either 330s or 787s) but I feel compensation by Boeing is behind all this. I'm not saying is the only driver, and that they got them for free, but probably they gave AV a good on these frames as part of the delay compensation. I know they were really talking about it last year, and numbers were over usd100m, but nothing was a definetively, one might think by this time a deal has been struck.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
SCL767
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 5):
The GRU-BOG-LAX is confirmed not sure if late 2012 or early 2013. The MIA is also confirmed, as said with a SCL based 767, SCL crew would operate the SCL-BOG-SCL sectors, BOG crew would operate the BOG-MIA-BOG sectors. MAD would come next, so would JFK. For those of you that love thinking about rotations, how many frequencies could those 767 do on these routes? Condorx?

LAN has adopted a new method where certain a/c operate will operate a certain route into a U.S. destination, then operate a completely different route on the return. For example. LAN Ecuador will operate GYE-JFK daily, but the a/c would turn around and operate JFK-LIM-SCL, LA operates SCL-MIA but the a/c could turn around and operate MIA-BOG-SCL, like the current service. It increases the utilization of the a/c. This could occur at JFK, LAX and MAD, considering that LAN operates other B-767-316ERs services from those airports.
 
SCL767
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 7):
You have access to those facilities?? Are you a LAN employee?? Please, I will hear to elaborate from you about you seeing these facilities....

I've seen AV's pilots training on the F-100s at AA's Flight School at DFW.   My employment is irrelevant to this forum, as is yours. I posted a thread last year about LAN's training facilities:
LAN To Receive Its First B-787 During Q4 2012 (by SCL767 Nov 10 2011 in Civil Aviation)
 
Southamerica
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:14 pm

Rumors of LAN opening up BOG-West coast routes sound interesting, though one can't help but to think how severely weight-restricted would a 767-300ER on the BOG-LAX sector, let alone BOG-SFO. I remember back when AV operated BOG-LAX somebody told me that when a 767-300ER had to operate the route as last minue replacement when a 767-200ER went tech or something, the payload was so restricted that it wasn't even enough to break even the flight,though I must admit it was an isolated source. Curious about this.
 
SCL767
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 10):
Rumors of LAN opening up BOG-West coast routes sound interesting, though one can't help but to think how severely weight-restricted would a 767-300ER on the BOG-LAX sector, let alone BOG-SFO.

LAN would not operate older versions of the B763s on a BOG-LAX route. LAN will operate brand new B-767-316ERs with blended winglets on the BOG-LAX, BOG-JFK, and BOG-MAD routes. Currently LAN Cargo's affiliate MasAir operates BOG-LAX 3x weekly with the B763F without issues.

[Edited 2012-06-26 07:25:23]
 
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Coal
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 6):
2000 sq meters

Holy #$@%! 2,000 sq mts? That is massive! Are you sure that is correct? I know the guy said it in the video interview, but 2,000 sq mts is huge! I can tell you it certainly would be way bigger than the SQ lounge in SIN (which I am most familiar with). You could easily fit 3-4 houses with a yard in that kind of space.

Cheers
Coal
Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
troest
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 12):
Holy #$@%! 2,000 sq mts? That is massive! Are you sure that is correct? I know the guy said it in the video interview, but 2,000 sq mts is huge! I can tell you it certainly would be way bigger than the SQ lounge in SIN (which I am most familiar with). You could easily fit 3-4 houses with a yard in that kind of space.

It will be huge! AV will probably host to all Star Alliance members flying into BOG. Let's wait and see what AV's lounge will offer.
 
SCL767
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 6):
Finally, so they can offer a decent product! More capacity on the BOG- South Florida sector is also welcome.

BOG - MIA now has

AA 1x 763, 1x 757, 1x 738
AV 1x 332, 1x 320
LA 1x 320

LAN still offers Premium Business on the BOG-MIA and MIA-BOG sectors 3x weekly:
LA570 will continue to operate SCL-BOG-MIA 3x weekly B763 until the end of August
LA571 will continue to operate MIA-BOG-SCL 3x weekly B763 until the end of August

LAN Colombia will increase frequency on the BOG-MIA route to a daily service on 1JULY2012. Thus LAN will offer 10x weekly non-stop flights between BOG and MIA. LAN will also increase frequency on the SCL-BOG route to 9x weekly soon utilizing the B763.

[Edited 2012-06-26 10:59:18]
 
falkerker
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting troest (Reply 13):
It will be huge! AV will probably host to all Star Alliance members flying into BOG. Let's wait and see what AV's lounge will offer.

Let's hope it's up to Star Alliance standards in terms of catering and comfort (SQ SilverKris at Changi comes to mind). After all, they entered Star Alliance in part due to the convenience of the BOG hub, they should live up to it (maybe I´m just talking with desire LOL)
 
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Coal
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:11 pm

Quoting falkerker (Reply 15):
SQ SilverKris at Changi comes to mind

Let's hope it's better than that! Let's hope it's as good as the NZ lounge in SYD.

Cheers
Coal
Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
AF086
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:30 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 5):
SFO as a destination is flight crew gossip so we can take it with a grain of salt. But what they said it would be a GIG-BOG-SFO which could compliment the GRU-LIM-SFO very nicely.

Flight crew gossip can be very unreliable. I'm somewhat skeptical with the GIG leg considering that not even LP, which is stablished for much longer, serves GIG already.

If it happens, though, would put some pressure on AV on the route. We'll see.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 12):
Holy #$@%! 2,000 sq mts? That is massive! Are you sure that is correct? I know the guy said it in the video interview, but 2,000 sq mts is huge!

That's what the article says, i'm not lying. It will be huge.

Quoting falkerker (Reply 15):
Let's hope it's up to Star Alliance standards in terms of catering and comfort (SQ SilverKris at Changi comes to mind).

They have the chance to make a state of the art, top notch lounge, so let's see!

Quoting AF086 (Reply 17):
Flight crew gossip can be very unreliable. I'm somewhat skeptical with the GIG leg considering that not even LP, which is stablished for much longer, serves GIG already.

If it happens, though, would put some pressure on AV on the route. We'll see.

GIG is not going to happen yet for LA Colombia. The only international route I see happening in the near future is MAD, then maybe LAX.
 
SCL767
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:01 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 18):

Quoting AF086 (Reply 17):
Flight crew gossip can be very unreliable. I'm somewhat skeptical with the GIG leg considering that not even LP, which is stablished for much longer, serves GIG already.

If it happens, though, would put some pressure on AV on the route. We'll see.

GIG is not going to happen yet for LA Colombia. The only international route I see happening in the near future is MAD, then maybe LAX.

However TAM could launch GIG-BOG 3x weekly by the end of this year. LAN has decided to rapidly increase LAN Colombia's international expansion and will most definitely launch BOG-JFK this year to complement LAN's existing services at JFK. LAN Colombia will launch the BOG-LAX and BOG-MAD routes by Q4. Thus LAN Colombia will be operating non-stop services from BOG to GRU, JFK, LAX, MAD, and MIA. LAN will continue to operate the SCL-BOG route, TAM will continue to operate the GRU-BOG route and LAN Perú will continue to operate LIM-BOG 2x daily. It's also very likely that LAN Perú may increase capacity on one of the two daily LIM-BOG services by deploying the B763 on the route. LAN will transfer another A320 to LAN Ecuador after the new Quito airport opens in order to increase flights within Ecuador and to launch both UIO-BOG and GYE-BOG.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
Thus LAN will offer 10x weekly non-stop flights between BOG and MIA.

For two months, then a daily A320.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 14):
LAN still offers Premium Business on the BOG-MIA and MIA-BOG sectors 3x weekly:

Indeed. Up until august.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
However TAM could launch GIG-BOG 3x weekly by the end of this year.

Would be glad to see a formal application by TAM to Aerocivil about these frequencies.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
LAN has decided to rapidly increase LAN Colombia's international expansion and will most definitely launch BOG-JFK this year to complement LAN's existing services at JFK.

I would love to see an official statement from the airline, but this is a highly likely market, AIRES did fly to JFK in the past.
 
falkerker
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:05 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 16):
Let's hope it's as good as the NZ lounge in SYD

Never been there, sadly, but I agree that:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 18):
They have the chance to make a state of the art, top notch lounge, so let's see!

They have the space, and political pressure from star alliance to make the best lounge possible. Let´s hope we can someday be proud of an AV lounge. IMHO the current lounges either at BOG international or at puente aereo are nothing to be proud of....
 
Summa767
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting Bogota (Reply 5):
The MIA is also confirmed, as said with a SCL based 767, SCL crew would operate the SCL-BOG-SCL sectors, BOG crew would operate the BOG-MIA-BOG sectors. MAD would come next, so would JFK. For those of you that love thinking about rotations, how many frequencies could those 767 do on these routes? Condorx?

3 frames should be fine for MAD, JFK, GRU and LAX. I guess some of these will not be daily to allow for some mx time and back up allowance. I trust that LAN will do well with LAX, which is a market they know well. Ditto with GRU, given the marriage with TAM and all distribution. I would be less sure about JFK on the 767. GIG and SFO seem more far fetched at the moment.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 10):
I remember back when AV operated BOG-LAX somebody told me that when a 767-300ER had to operate the route as last minue replacement when a 767-200ER went tech or something, the payload was so restricted that it wasn't even enough to break even the flight,though I must admit it was an isolated source. Curious about this.


It must have been before AV did an engine upgrade on the 763s in the last couple of years that it had them, when they were able to do BOG-MAD, though I guess no cargo would have been carried. On that basis, and as has been mentioned LAN's 763s have winglets, and presumably the most capable engines, I expect that they will be able to do both LAX and MAD quite viably. I suppose that LAX/GRU/JFK will come before MAD, as the ETOPS certification for Aires will require some non-ETOPS fly time (could be as little as a month if they expedite the process) before they are let loose across the Atlantic.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:01 pm

B6 to fly JFK-CTG:

http://www.portafolio.co/negocios/je...s-tendra-ruta-nueva-york-cartagena

This is great news for the city of Cartagena! Welcome B6 and welcome New York!
 
777jaah
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
My employment is irrelevant to this forum, as is yours

Ohh, you're wrong. All of the sudden, your fanatism towards LAN seems to have other interests rather than a pure enthusiasm for aviation.

Quoting falkerker (Reply 21):
would love to see an official statement from the airline, but this is a highly likely market, AIRES did fly to JFK in the past.

I fear this is almost an official statement.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):
B6 to fly JFK-CTG:

Any confirmation from B6?? Great news for CTG indeed.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
av757
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:30 pm

Enclosed you will find a link to an article that sums up pretty well how Latin American Aviation stands at this moment.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...l-force-across-south-america-76917

See a good description of what the future holds for this region of the world in the aviation industry and alliances.

AV757
 
falkerker
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 24):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
My employment is irrelevant to this forum, as is yours
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 24):
Ohh, you're wrong. All of the sudden, your fanatism towards LAN seems to have other interests rather than a pure enthusiasm for aviation.

Couldn´t agree more, I have no issue whatsoever with true fanatism (like those who rave about SQ or EK) but if your so-called fanatism is behind corporate interests, please begone. This is a forum for those of us who proudly call ourselves aviation enthusiasts, not for corporate propaganda. If your paycheck (or your employer) forbids you from having honest discussions, please avoid having them at all SCL767.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:23 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 10):
AV operated BOG-LAX somebody told me that when a 767-300ER had to operate the route

The dedicated AV BOG-LAX 5x weekly with 762 sector was retired some years ago, in order to boost AV BOG-SAL 7x weekly. Thus, daily connections between Los Angeles and Bogota were possible on AV-TA [BOG-SAL] and then TA SAL-LAX.
LAN Colombia seems to act different launching the imminent BOG-LAX service as non-stop in the future.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
RCS763AV
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 27):
The dedicated AV BOG-LAX 5x weekly with 762 sector was retired some years ago, in order to boost AV BOG-SAL 7x weekly. Thus, daily connections between Los Angeles and Bogota were possible on AV-TA [BOG-SAL] and then TA SAL-LAX.

The BOG-SAL/SJO-LAX move was one of those that I call a "SAL initiative" move, directed clearly at boosting the small central american hubs but having a terrible macro effect on the airline's network (the decision to remove MIA-LIM as a non-stop is another example, a flight that was quickly reestablished after the merger, this hampered the growth of the LIM hub and LAN took full advantage). It swiped any competitive advantage they had over CM, AA, AM or UA via their hubs, which coincidentially, are all nicer transit airports than SAL and to an extent SJO (except for MIA's terribly inefficient customs maybe).

I acknowledge that the A330 was a bit too big of an aircraft for the route (going from 175 to 250 seats), but they could have cut frequency to 4x weekly and with the enhanced connections that BOG is offering today they could have grown it again.

I applaud LAN's bold and intelligent move, they will be taking advantage of a sizeable market that is there and AVTA simply decided to give away.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:17 am

Very good interview from renowned journalist María Jimena Dussán, in which she openly questions the director of Aerocivil about the size of the new terminal, on how the contract was written (very in the style of the incompetence of the Uribe government when it came to infrastructure projects) but finally praising the new terminal, which is looking more beautiful every day, it also has some interesting facts and the director of Aerocivil talks about the new control tower:

http://www.semana.com/nacion/eldorad...ra-aeropuerto-panama/179886-3.aspx

(Spanish only)

Also, B6's JFK-CTG flights will apparently operate 3x a week, not one weekly, according to Cartagena's local newspaper El Universal:

http://www.eluniversal.com.co/cartag...entre-nueva-york-y-cartagena-82251
 
bogota
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:51 pm

Very mediocre interview in my opinion, as usual when a political analyst is trying to look interesting by asking "intelligent" questions about a subject she is not interested, but rather she is trying to blame her political opponents. Being such a well informed journalist she was rather uninformed.
 
Avianca
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:25 pm

any news on Colombia - Venezuela flights operated by LAN? as per my understanding they are whishin to reopen the old Aires BOG-MAR route.

cheers
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
RCS763AV
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RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting bogota (Reply 30):
Very mediocre interview in my opinion, as usual when a political analyst is trying to look interesting by asking "intelligent" questions about a subject she is not interested, but rather she is trying to blame her political opponents.
Quoting bogota (Reply 30):
Being such a well informed journalist she was rather uninformed.

I don't think she was uninformed. Actually, many of the responses from Aerocivil's director were evasive, starting from when he said that the contract was written before his administration and he had no responsibility for facts such as that the fines that must be legally imposed on the contractor for being late can be automatically taken into arbitration and NONE of the fines have been paid so far. çthe only part in which she was a little flaky was on the control tower situation, but she did manage to extract information on what the hell the Aerocivil was planning to do with the new control tower, something they had been silent about for a long time and wasn't really clear.

Also, I don't understand why OPAÍN and the government have been on a campaign to mitigate what the aviation chiefs and the general public are saying: the new BOG will be small and was badly projected. Yes, the government has a plan (it is still very unclear, but anyhow Dussán managed to make Castro spit the information that there are actually studies being undertaken already by a consulting firm), but what will be ready in 2014 will be clearly unable to handle the traffic. Santiago Castro says it will be bigger than PTY in floor area, probably from what they currently have in operation, but not with the addition of the north and south concourses. I think there she should have been more incisive, and instead decided to go easy on the Aerocivil's chief.

But it was definitely not a bad interview. After all, interviews are made to extract as much information as possible from a person, and she did get a lot more than what the other media have been publishing in the past three months.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 31):
any news on Colombia - Venezuela flights operated by LAN? as per my understanding they are whishin to reopen the old Aires BOG-MAR route.

No news.

[Edited 2012-07-02 11:40:11]
 
Summa767
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:56 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 32):
But it was definitely not a bad interview. After all, interviews are made to extract as much information as possible from a person, and she did get a lot more than what the other media have been publishing in the past three months

I totally agree with you. It was a fine interview, much as some people hate to see the incompetence in the way the concession was originally done brought to the fore.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):
B6 to fly JFK-CTG:

very good news for CTG in a move by jetBlue that's not without its risks. If it does well, the airline could expand service to other cities in Colombia.
Schedule:
JFK-CTG: 8:25 a.m. – 1:10 p.m.
CTG-JFK: 2:05 p.m. – 7:30 p.m.
- Flights operate on Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays effective November 2, 2012 –
 
AF086
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 19):
However TAM could launch GIG-BOG 3x weekly by the end of this year.

JJ doesn't even launch GIG-SCL why would they serve GIG-BOG? They have a shiny A330 parked all day at GIG which could be used for the route but they choose not to.

So: forget GIG-BOG and even GIG-LIM with JJ and, apparently, with LP and LAN Colombia as well.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 32):
But it was definitely not a bad interview.

Not in my opinion, for such a famous journalist being so uninformed about the airport is shameful. She tried her best to turn it into a political discussion, yet she was unable to

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 32):
the new BOG will be small and was badly projected.

We all know that, many voices said it years ago how maybe it would have been better to invest in a larger international terminal instead of spending in tearing down the old terminal since not much more capacity would have been added. Now those same voices are complaining about lack of capacity.

Planning is a complex thing especially when government is involved, some would love to tear down the city to redoit from scratch, yet it is public funds we are talking about and it is not easy to plan when abiding to the law. It seems people do not understand it, I am very surprised somebody as "centered" as MJD can not grasp this concept.

OPAIN has never said the airport is big enough, what they have said is that most of the problems have to do with radars not gates. The airport will be expanded as soon as the new master plan comes out, a master plan that is adjusted to a new reality that nobody dreamed just 5 years ago, much less 10 or 15 years ago.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 32):
no responsibility for facts such as that the fines that must be legally imposed on the contractor for being late can be automatically taken into arbitration and NONE of the fines have been paid so far.

The law in civilized nations allows for self defense, especially when the government has draged its feet on many issues related to the airport. My personal opinion is that OPAIN has done a good job so far, they have continuosly invested in the old airport, regardless that they are not obliged to do it, just because it seems they want to provide as good of service as possible, knowing that the building will be torn down very soon.
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:13 pm

Here's some pics on the new terminal:

http://www.eltiempo.com/Multimedia/g...el-aeropuerto-eldorado-_11983333-5

Last nite I flew on AV's *A 320. I saw they had some sort of mood lighting, took a pic with my phone, will post it later. Anyone knows whats the deal with this?? Is gonna be standard in the rest of the fleet??
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 33):
It was a fine interview, much as some people hate to see the incompetence in the way the concession was originally done brought to the fore.

Indeed, it's also a structural problem of colombian's puclic contract law. It's made so that the contractors can swipe away money from the state in the most horribly

Quoting AF086 (Reply 34):
JJ doesn't even launch GIG-SCL why would they serve GIG-BOG? They have a shiny A330 parked all day at GIG which could be used for the route but they choose not to.

Another one of his delusional suppositions. Let it be. I'll be happy when it happens, but it just isn't for now.

Quoting bogota (Reply 35):
Not in my opinion, for such a famous journalist being so uninformed about the airport is shameful.

How else did you want her to be? If someone has been ostracized about the airport's renovation process it's not only OPAÍN, but the government itself! The only people who have actual access! No one knows anything, not the press, not the journalists, the Aerocivil isn't clear, they present different facts every now and then (notice how the original airport capacity was 16m, then it became 20 when they announced the unified terminal, and now they're magically talking about 30, without adding one square meter of space?). She was very good at making Santago Castro actually give the public some punctual info instead of his very very abstract press appearances. Ok, she did have some wrong info on the tower, but at least she HAD something. I think that not even president Santos knows what the hell is going on with the twoer's contractual process.

Quoting bogota (Reply 35):
We all know that, many voices said it years ago how maybe it would have been better to invest in a larger international terminal instead of spending in tearing down the old terminal since not much more capacity would have been added. Now those same voices are complaining about lack of capacity.

I stand by my claim that a unified terminal is necessary. The 1959 terminal is simply not designed to handle large passenger jets comfortably (by large I mean anything larger than a 100 seater) and there was no space to modify that. The structure presents too many operational challengers for modern air travel that were unresolvable or would have cost a lot of money to fix (imagine trying to install an automated baggage system), probably the same as just tearing it down and building something else. That, and putting the domestic and international flights under the same roof (BOG's greatest strength as a connecting hub are its domestic connections, much more than the international ones), are the reasons the airport needed a unified terminal.

The airport was badly projected, period. Had it been by not tearing down the current terminal or doing what they are doing now, it would have been small. Now, by building a unified terminal they are not necessarily hampering future investment on the airport. At least the studies are being made, let's hope they come up with a 30 year old plan or something, not the c***p ADP made back then.

Quoting bogota (Reply 35):
The law in civilized nations allows for self defense, especially when the government has draged its feet on many issues related to the airport.

One thing is self defense, and another is providing a contractor with unlimited advantages. The government can't compete with OPAÍNS legal team, there are other things that are more urgent and the money just isn't there! One thing is to give the contractor the opportunity to arbitrate, but knowing you can fight back. Not only that, there is the possibility that if OPAÍN looses an arbitration, they could go to court, costing the government five or six times the amount of the fine they are about to process.

Quoting bogota (Reply 35):
My personal opinion is that OPAIN has done a good job so far, they have continuosly invested in the old airport, regardless that they are not obliged to do it, just because it seems they want to provide as good of service as possible, knowing that the building will be torn down very soon.

Yes, they have been doing a nice job. But that doesn't mean they can be late with the construction.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 36):
Anyone knows whats the deal with this?? Is gonna be standard in the rest of the fleet??

I want to know more about the new grey leather seats!
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:20 pm

Damn if you do, damn if you don´t. I warned about this discussion years ago when the unified terminal was proposed. What ever your opinion is, I respect it Mr. RCS, but really do not care about getting into an eternal discussion about what the perfect world should look like. Things could have been better? For sure, they always can be. But how somebody like that journalist did not even have clear that the original project did not include the unified terminal and hence the reason why it should have been finished earlier is beyond my understanding. Or maybe what is a political analyst trying to interview somebody about infrastructure? I guess I personally like looking at all sides before complaining about everything simply because my political motivations make me do it.

Anyhow, lets get back to the terminal. I said years ago that if the discussion of lack of capacity came back after the decision of spending millions on tearing down the old terminal I would keep my opinions to myself, hopefully so we could concentrate on our new reality with a unified terminal and less resources to spend on a larger capacity airport. Now we need to find out on how to get more resources so a larger terminal can continue to be built.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 37):
The airport was badly projected, period. Had it been by not tearing down the current terminal or doing what they are doing now, it would have been small. Now, by building a unified terminal they are not necessarily hampering future investment on the airport. At least the studies are being made, let's hope they come up with a 30 year old plan or something, not the c***p ADP made back then.

In fairness to ADP, they provided 3 different possibilities. Not only did the Uribe government choose the crappiest option out of the 3, but it only based the concession on only ONE phase of the worst one!
Not only was the airport badly projected, as you say, but the whole process was handled with the utmost incompetence.

Changing the plan from refurbishing the old terminal to having a unified one is one of the least bad outcomes, but the fact that the concession award was based on one project on which different bidders competed, but then changed radically AFTER one winner was chosen on a proposal that no longer was to be, meant that there was no real competition on a financial proposal for the real thing, no real choice of alternative ideas in the final design. What a mess.

What we have now -result of no competition- is undoubtedly far from the best outcome both in design and value for money, but at least it does allow for easy expansion going forward, by simple extension of the new terminal building to the sides. The new unified terminal is no architectural marvel, and indeed is quite passé in some respects, and it shows none of the urbanistic advances that Bogota was once recorgnised for, but it is nonetheless a significant mprovement on the current facilities.
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:37 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 39):
In fairness to ADP, they provided 3 different possibilities. Not only did the Uribe government choose the crappiest option out of the 3, but it only based the concession on only ONE phase of the worst one!
Not only was the airport badly projected, as you say, but the whole process was handled with the utmost incompetence.

This your very personal OPINION, but we can gladly discuss which were the other two proposals and what they had better.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 39):
Changing the plan from refurbishing the old terminal to having a unified one is one of the least bad outcomes, but the fact that the concession award was based on one project on which different bidders competed, but then changed radically AFTER one winner was chosen on a proposal that no longer was to be, meant that there was no real competition on a financial proposal for the real thing, no real choice of alternative ideas in the final design. What a mess.

You were the first one to cheer the need for a change in the design by ADP, then you complained because it was delayed, then you complained because there was no competition, then you complained because the changes were taking place longer that you imagined they should take place, then you complained because you did not like the design, then you complained because it would never be finished this year, then you complained because it would be too small, etc, etc, etc. I understand you want the world to circle around you, but sadly it does not.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 39):
What we have now -result of no competition- is undoubtedly far from the best outcome both in design and value for money, but at least it does allow for easy expansion going forward, by simple extension of the new terminal building to the sides. The new unified terminal is no architectural marvel, and indeed is quite passé in some respects, and it shows none of the urbanistic advances that Bogota was once recorgnised for, but it is nonetheless a significant mprovement on the current facilities.

It is actually achitecturally quite nice, maybe not your taste, but then nothing in Colombia never is (outside Medellin) that is.

[Edited 2012-07-04 10:39:47]
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting bogota (Reply 38):
I want to know more about the new grey leather seats!

Honestly, I sat on an emergency exit, so no recline. But I always love the feeling of a leather seat, rather than any type of fabric.

Here's the pic I took of the new lighting system:

Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
Summa767
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:14 am

Quoting bogota (Reply 40):
This your very personal OPINION, but we can gladly discuss which were the other two proposals and what they had better.

Look, as much as you try to confound the truth, the fact is that OPAIN had already been given the contract when the decision was made to forget the proposals in the bidding process (that were long drawn and on which a winner was selected) and go for demolition and a new building and not the not the refurbishment of the existing one. The other bidders had NO chance to submit their own proposals, both in design and, importantly cost. The competition was curtailed. Incompetence that one could not make up! The whole process has been a complete mess from the beginning, when it fell on the then vice-president Francisco Santos decide on the concession process.
As I said in my previous posts, what we have now, results of improvisation and last minute tumbles, is not the worst outcome (the unified terminal will allow easy expansion), but of course it is not the best outcome either.

Quoting bogota (Reply 40):
It is actually achitecturally quite nice, maybe not your taste, but then nothing in Colombia never is (outside Medellin) that is.

I did not say that it was "not nice". It looks pleasant alright, but it is no marvel. And on Urbanbism is absolutely poor.
It is so sad that whilst Enrique Peñalosa, Bogota's former mayor goes round the world advising cities on good urbanism, its own city does not even have a final plan to take the city's rapid bus system to the airport!
This is from 6 weeks ago!: http://www.elespectador.com/noticias...transmilenio-falta-llegar-eldorado

Late as this has come, the current president seems more on the ball than his cousin, who set out the concession process in the first place, where the provision of links to the city clearly came as an after thought.
Really, incompetence you just can't make up, but no wonder when there are so many apologists for mediocrity. Sadly not just you.
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:17 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 41):
Here's the pic I took of the new lighting system:

Certainly looks sharp!

On other news, the idiots at CODAD (the operators of BOG's runways) did the runway resurfacing wrong at BOG's south runway, meaning they will have to re do it, this should mean further delays to the congested operation:

http://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/bog...EB-NEW_NOTA_INTERIOR-12001095.html
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:30 am

Synergy bets on their long-haul and cargo operations, they order 6 pax A330s and 3 cargo versions on top of existing orders:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012...gy-aerospace-orders-a330-aircraft/

Avianca opens flights to EYP (El Yopal), it's 23rd domestic destination. 2x daily with Fokker 50 to start august 6:

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...%80%93-yopal-%E2%80%93-bogota.html

TACA to fly 3x weekly non-stop from LIM to both MDE and CLO:

http://economia.terra.com.pe/noticia...dNoticia=201207121534_ADN_81397820

Will this affect the operations via Ecuador?
 
av757
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:49 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:43 pm

So far the new A330 additions to the fleet are to operate eventually the reaproved routes to Europe by the Colombian Aerocivil.

http://www.aviacol.net/noticias-del-...res-y-san-juan-de-puerto-rico.html
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 45):
ACA to fly 3x weekly non-stop from LIM to both MDE and CLO:

I had the chance to talk to a TA crew recently, and they seem to be happy with these new flights, and witht he AV/TA alliance overall. Hopefully those flights will go daily soon.

Here's the official Airbus press release on the Synergy order:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-nine-airbus-a330-family-aircraft/

I wonder if the upcoming LATAM merge made Synergy to order some planes that they could have rather soon in order to expand their network to Chile and Europe?? I always heard the 350s were the ones to accomplish that mission, but they must be in a hurry to have additional capacity. And are the 330F additional to the ones ordered by QT some time ago??? If so, are they going to QT or Synergy is planning to have some kind of Avianca do Brasil Cargo company??
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
RCS763AV
Topic Author
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting AV757 (Reply 46):
So far the new A330 additions to the fleet are to operate eventually the reaproved routes to Europe by the Colombian Aerocivil.

I hope they do give London a go this time. LGW or LHR.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 47):

I wonder if the upcoming LATAM merge made Synergy to order some planes that they could have rather soon in order to expand their network to Chile and Europe??

I think they are shifting their policy regarding long haul flights. Relying too much on the intra-latin america traffic doesn't bring the big yields, and they will be going after new european routes, from BOG of course, but probably from LIM and Brazil too. Some of the mid-haul routes form BOG can also use extra capacity (please return to LAX!)
 
clo1973
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:29 pm

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:28 pm

Starting Aug. 23rd, Taca will start flights nonstop between CLO-LIM as follows:

CLO-LIM : 1807 Tu, Th, Sa
LIM-CLO : 1025 Tu, Th, Sa

This is additional to the current 5x operation they have in the route CLO-GYE-LIM.

CLO has seen lately an increase in Int'l operations, in June AV started again CLO-MDE-JFK, in July Taca started CLO-SAL.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 2411
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: #10 In The Colombian Aviation Series

Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:06 am

Quoting clo1973 (Reply 49):
Starting Aug. 23rd, Taca will start flights nonstop between CLO-LIM as follows:

CLO-LIM : 1807 Tu, Th, Sa
LIM-CLO : 1025 Tu, Th, Sa

This is additional to the current 5x operation they have in the route CLO-GYE-LIM.

TACA will also fly the LIM-MDE segment as non-stop thrice a week from August. The current TA LIM-UIO-MDE 7x weekly service won't be modified.
Aren't LIM-UIO-MDE and LIM-GYE-CLO operated by AeroGal on behalf of TACA at this time ?

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"