PlaneInsomniac
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TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:01 pm

Can this even be real? According to this report, a TSA agent opened jar labelled "Human Remains", stirred it with her finger, and spilled much of it on the floor - against the passenger's warnings and in violation of TSA policy. She then laughed at the passenger when he frantically tried to gather his grandfather's ashes from the terminal floor:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/2...s-in-confrontation-with-passenger/
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kc135topboom
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:19 pm

This TSA troll needs to be fired.

Napilitano needs to go to this family and personally apoligize for the TSA and DHS.
 
aloges
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):
Can this even be real?

I've heard too many insane, but true, stories to believe that it can't be. But it would of course be helpful to hear the story told by a neutral observer, which seems unlikely to happen... was the passenger confrontational, was a supervisor involved, was the labelling of the container as required, that sort of thing.

If it really did happen as reported, it's another example of a small-minded person abusing the power that (s)he was given.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:41 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 2):
was the labelling of the container as required, that sort of thing.

The article clearly stated that the jar was labeled as human remains.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
koruman
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:48 am

If its any consolation, "ashes" are just the ground remains of multiple people's bones which come out of the cremulator.

Almost certainly hardly any of the material dropped will have come from the grandfather in question.
 
ikramerica
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:31 am

That's not legal in the USA. Not that it doesn't happen, but when crematoriums are caught doing it purposely, there can be criminal charges filed.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:41 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
This TSA troll needs to be fired.

Fired? She committed a crime. She should have left in the back of a patrol car with all security tape copies already properly collected.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:31 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 4):
If its any consolation, "ashes" are just the ground remains of multiple people's bones which come out of the cremulator.

Almost certainly hardly any of the material dropped will have come from the grandfather in question.

I'm sorry having to correct you. The urn actually contains to a very large extent the ashes (and ground bones) from the specific person. Before cremation, a little stone bearing an individual number is put into the cask, and this stone is also buried with the ashes.

When a human body is burned with the cask, the lighter ashes (coming from the wood) are blown away, while the ashes from the body have a much higher specific weight. That way, the ashes are retained and separated.


Here are the answers from an actual undertaker who is writing a German-language blog: http://bestatterweblog.de/krematorium/


David

[Edited 2012-06-27 03:36:10]
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soon7x7
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:41 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):
Napilitano needs to go to this family and personally apoligize for the TSA and DHS.

She'll (Napalitano) just support the agent claiming she is "just doing her job"...that is where we are at today...Sad...
 
G500
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):
Can this even be real?

we're talking about TSA here and you're asking if this "can be real"

I'm a corporate pilot, and TSA is the best thing that's ever happened for our industry
 
gizmonc
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:54 pm

I have been in the airline industry for over 22 years and personally I think TSA is a F __CKING JOKE. This one really bites big time. What is TSA going to do this time they have done so much. Just a few days ago I recently stopped at the checkpoint to ask a question and the reply I got was RUDE and CONDENSENDING from the TSA agent. I don't know about other cities but when you look at the TSA group who mans the STL TSA screening area. They are a bunch of MISFITS. Always to many I guess that is how someone came up the the phrase TSA= THOUSANDS STANDING AROUND.
 
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falstaff
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 7):
The urn actually contains to a very large extent the ashes (and ground bones) from the specific person. Before cremation, a little stone bearing an individual number is put into the cask, and this stone is also buried with the ashes.

That is correct. I have a friend who worked 40 years in the cemetery and cremation business. He was told me many interesting stories, but he always said they cremation of bodies was done one at a time and you got back the ashes from your loved one.

She should have mailed the remains, which is what my family has done; twice.

A couple of funny stories: My grandmother died in 1992 and we had her cremated. My dad brought her remains back in the trunk of his car and then put them in our house. In 1994 my mother's sister wanted them so my mom put them in a box and mailed them to her. Two years later my grandfather died and my aunt had him cremated and mixed his remains with my grandmother. My aunt then mailed 1/2 the mixed remains to my mom. So grandma's remains went through the mail twice. I always joke around how grandma got a great tour of the postal service.

In 2005 my mother put some of the ashes in a small urn for me and gave it to me. She put them in the front pocket of my suitcase and I forgot about them. I flew twice with that suitcase (checked baggage), took two road trips, and one train trip before I rediscovered my grandparent's remains. They are now safely on a shelf in my house.

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 10):
TSA group who mans the STL

They are slow. I go to STL a lot (A gates) and the line there takes longer, but is shorter, than the lines at DTW.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):
Can this even be real? According to this report, a TSA agent opened jar labelled "Human Remains", stirred it with her finger, and spilled much of it on the floor - against the passenger's warnings and in violation of TSA policy. She then laughed at the passenger when he frantically tried to gather his grandfather's ashes from the terminal floor:

Before my dad passed away in 1961, he requested that he be cremated and his ashes "tossed to the four winds." The local department of health had different ideas on the matter, and his urn was delivered to us sealed. I had my 20-year-old cat cremeated when he passed away and it was the same thing.

I can't imagine where remains are returned to a client as loose dust.   


[Edit] Relatives gave him a jar sealed with masking tape???? That's nasty. No wonder the TSA called his bluff.
 
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falstaff
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 12):
I can't imagine where remains are returned to a client as loose dust.


[Edit] Relatives gave him a jar sealed with masking tape???? That's nasty. No wonder the TSA called his bluff.

My grandparent's remains were in "sealed" container, but it wasn't all that sealed. All you had to do is unscrew the lid and you were in. I have had two cat cremated at their ashes were returned to me in urns not unlike the ones my grandparents were in, just smaller.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 12):
Before my dad passed away in 1961, he requested that he be cremated and his ashes "tossed to the four winds." The local department of health had different ideas on the matter

My dad's mother wanted to be tossed into the river, in Pittsburgh, off the Smithfield Street bridge. I am sure the city wouldn't have liked it, but dad and I just walked across the bridge and when nobody was looking tossed the urn in the river.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting falstaff (Reply 13):
I am sure the city wouldn't have liked it, but dad and I just walked across the bridge and when nobody was looking tossed the urn in the river.

Not to worry.

With all the the coal-mining waste that comes up the Monongahela, ashes would be reduced to atomic particles in seconds.
 
frmrCapCadet
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:14 pm

IIRC, in Washington state ashes are not considered 'human remains'. They are obviously 'remains', but they are mineral remains at that point. There are some rules regarding disposal, but families are generally free to do what they want. And I have never seen an enforcement incident.
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Zudnic
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:46 pm

Just another example of the absurdity of TSA rules. If you want to get a dangerous powder onto an airplane, label it "human remains." Billions of dollars in Security Theater circumvented.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:17 pm

My mom, after watching 'Throw Momma From the Train', requested that I toss her off the Forth Rail Bridge, near her native Edinburgh. Yeah, sure Ma   Tossed off the 7 train over Sunnyside Yards was what she got.

Not really, I'm waiting on cousins so we can go over together and return our parents, their other expenses have priority.
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manny
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:35 pm

Most TSA agents would not have found a job with the good ole private security we had back in the day.
If the guy punched that TSA drone there should be no charges filed against him.
 
robsaw
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 16):
Just another example of the absurdity of TSA rules. If you want to get a dangerous powder onto an airplane, label it "human remains." Billions of dollars in Security Theater circumvented.

Doesn't mean it can't be xray'd or swabbed and tested for explosive residue.
 
135mech
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 9):
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):
Can this even be real?

we're talking about TSA here and you're asking if this "can be real"

I'm a corporate pilot, and TSA is the best thing that's ever happened for our industry

So...are we missing something here? Are you defending her actions and complete disregard for the respect of the deceased and the man carrying the remains? Or, are you just defending the need for the TSA?
135Mech
 
Maverick623
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:16 pm

Quoting 135mech (Reply 20):
So...are we missing something here? Are you defending her actions and complete disregard for the respect of the deceased and the man carrying the remains? Or, are you just defending the need for the TSA?

You missed something.... the word corporate. TSA has driven many of his passengers away from airlines, as planes with less than 70 seats (IIRC) do not need to be screened (nor do their passengers).



Also, a link was posted elsewhere, where TSA is COMPLETELY DENYING THE INCIDENT EVER HAPPENED.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
135mech
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 21):
You missed something.... the word corporate. TSA has driven many of his passengers away from airlines, as planes with less than 70 seats (IIRC) do not need to be screened (nor do their passengers).



Also, a link was posted elsewhere, where TSA is COMPLETELY DENYING THE INCIDENT EVER HAPPENED.

LOL yeah, it has been a shift (from what I have witnessed) of people finding other means of transportation due to the problems caused with dealing with the TSA.

It's sad that they are denying this incident, individual people who should never have been put into "power" positions, were hired out of the rapid necessity of creating and swiftly building the TSA and are not being held accountable.
135Mech
 
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zippyjet
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):

TSA officers are human just like us so that means they too have fetishes.    Whatever floats your boat. Bad TSA agent. This is sad and the fact that she LOL at the guy trying to catch Grandpa's cremains! Closest I ever got to cremains was my first year. I was on the ticket counter and a woman comes up checking in; this before bag bees. She had a teepot/trophy looking thing. (An urn) Not familiar with cremation as I'm Jewish and it's slam bam burry you mam. Anyway, she wants to check her ornate looking teapot thing. (before bag fees). I told her she could easily fit it under her seat or even the overhead. She then told me. "Aunt Bedillia don't care! She's in there!" She had to sign a limited liability realease for Aunt Bedillia and her urn. And I did place Aunt Bedillia in one of our tubs. I guess she made it to MCO with flying colors. I think Aunt Bedillia wanted to join MIckey Mouse.
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57AZ
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:49 pm

Most of the folks I went to school with (university) figured that the TSA was a knee jerk reaction and that it would turn out badly. Sorry to see that we were right. Then again, my department was Criminal Justice and we had folks that were actual research criminologists amongst us. More traveler should push their representatives to get their local airports out of the TSA, as should the airlines. Amtrak actually threw TSA out of the Savannah, Georgia passenger station after they tried their nonsense there and most other railroads are maintaining the line-we'll share our information with you but you'll follow company rules when on railroad property.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
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zippyjet
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:17 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 24):

Though far from perfect, what's the alternative? The private companies (I'm not going to name names) but, a lot of the people they hire couldn't get a job with any of the airlines. They tend to be: 1. Police wannabees, 2. lazy, 3. married to their cell phones and texting. 4. Have I Pod buds blasting hip hop and other awful stuff they call music and taking up space in the terminal piling up the Z's and some have even messed with the thermostats cranking them up to 80 and 90 degrees while watching the plethora of never ending NBA playoff games and cartoon network. So, it's like choosing between creamed corn and Spam two so called foods that would make me hurl. Just sayin...
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Maverick623
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:40 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 25):
Though far from perfect, what's the alternative?

That argument makes people sound lazy. There's a whole host of better options, a bunch of which gets posted everytime we have a thread like this. So you can knock it off with the "no alternative" BS.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 25):
The private companies (I'm not going to name names) but, a lot of the people they hire couldn't get a job with any of the airlines.

Then require them to be airline employees. If you took 1/2 of the bloated TSA budget and gave it to the airlines to pay for both equipment and people (and ONLY equipment and people used for security, you can't use it elsewhere or claim it as income): you would have a decently paid workforce with equipment that actually prevents WEI from passing the security checkpoints, and with a vested interest in keeping them off of planes.

As it is, TSA loves nothing more than for stuff to make it past, because it justifies spending more money on machines that don't work (but get nice kickbacks to the Administrators that buy them), and further intrusions on our rights.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 25):
They tend to be: 1. Police wannabees, 2. lazy, 3. married to their cell phones and texting. 4. Have I Pod buds blasting hip hop and other awful stuff they call music and taking up space in the terminal piling up the Z's and some have even messed with the thermostats cranking them up to 80 and 90 degrees while watching the plethora of never ending NBA playoff games and cartoon network.

Funny, you just described what we have now.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
Mir
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:21 am

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 16):
Just another example of the absurdity of TSA rules. If you want to get a dangerous powder onto an airplane, label it "human remains." Billions of dollars in Security Theater circumvented.

   I won't defend the agent for laughing about it - that's just wrong, and justifies some punishment on its own - but I can understand why they'd want to check.

-Mir
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skywaymanaz
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 24):
Amtrak actually threw TSA out of the Savannah, Georgia passenger station after they tried their nonsense there

There was some kind of event nearby that TSA was asked to screen for. I don't recall the details on what type of event but TSA was told to only screen people entering the event, not leaving the station. After the event was over a passenger train arrived. The passengers were all told to go inside to claim their luggage and then they were all screened. So back that up, passengers were screened AFTER their journery? Pretty sure TSA denied they'd done anything wrong here too and denied telling passengers they were required to enter the station and could not pick up their luggage on the platform. Unfortunately for TSA numerous passengers made videos of what was happening with their cell phones and they're on youtube now. TSA was indeed told off by the Amtrack head honcho and told to not to come on their property. This didn't last long apparently and the official line is the misunderstandings have been worked out.

By the way I was very much opposed to TSA screeners getting a badge on their uniform. It may sound silly but here's the main reson. I am familiar with a firm that does coroporate security for office buildings. Their uniforms do not have a badge and the boilerplate in the company handbooks basically boils down to we don't want a-words with badges mentality among our guards. Sadly it's amazing how you give someone a badge and an otherwise normal person turns into Cartman on South Park.

I've had some encounters with very professional TSA screeners and a cousin of mine used to work for them too. I've never had a bad experience at AZA, CID or SGF, maybe being small helps. Unfortunately I get just enough of the a-words with badges mentality that I always try to arrive early. That way the do you want to fly today power trip is less effective if I stand my ground and ask for a supervisor. I've never had anything taken away from me so I'm not the one ignoring the rules. My last trip at PHX the people in front of me were all walking thru the magnetometer. When I tried that a screener came running across the room shouting at me, "NOT FOR YOU!!!" I guess TSA considers that an appropriate way to handle swicthing people over to the body scanner and nothing was done wrong. I asked for a pat down which led to more yelling, "I HAVE A MALE OPT OUT!" When I asked why I was treated that way after screening the supervisor told me it was because I said I had a medically implanted device. Uh no I didn't. So ok someone made a mistake we're all human but shouting is just business as usual.
 
Maverick623
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:32 am

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 28):
Sadly it's amazing how you give someone a badge and an otherwise normal person turns into Cartman on South Park.

This is exactly what DHS was counting on when it issued the badges. Make no mistake, their intent is to pulverize the Constitution and turn this country into something resembling Germany in 1939.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
flyingturtle
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:14 am

...historical remark:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 29):
1939.

The various mobs in their brown shirts were active much earlier, for example the Beer Hall putsch in 1923. Non-Nazis were openly persecuted in 1933 and before, and first concentration camps were set up in the same year. Don't be fooled by the date of the war's begin.  


Back to the topic: We all agree that the TSA either needs an overhaul or an abolishment. 


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
vegas005
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:07 pm

You want to see screening done correctly then come to the Zurich airport. I have said it numerous times, but Zurich is fast, professional, courteous and thorough. The TSA are collectively a bunch of idiots. The stations are always over manned and there performance is underwhelming to say the least.
 
B6MoneyGuyJFK
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:03 pm

When I read this story.. it really burned me up!

I don't know.. this does sound like something that the TSA could do..
Opinions are like @ssholes. Everyone has one, and everyone thinks everyone elses stinks!
 
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zippyjet
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 26):
Funny, you just described what we have now.

Like your ideas but it seems harder to get rid of government bloat than start it up. And believe it or not, the private ones at least at BWI make the TSA look good and that's God awful!    I'm waiting for someone to video tape the whole circus and put it on FB or You Tube. That will go viral along with the hover cat.
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Maverick623
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 30):


Back to the topic: We all agree that the TSA either needs an overhaul or an abolishment.

I do not agree. They need to be abolished, period.

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 31):
You want to see screening done correctly then come to the Zurich airport. I have said it numerous times, but Zurich is fast, professional, courteous and thorough.

Every airport I've been through in Europe is like that. MAN, DUB, ZRH, BCN, MAD, LHR...

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 33):
And believe it or not, the private ones at least at BWI make the TSA look good and that's God awful!

Private screeners in the US are nothing more than TSA agents with a different patch. They follow the exact same procedures and answer to Pistole.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 6):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1):This TSA troll needs to be fired.
Fired? She committed a crime. She should have left in the back of a patrol car with all security tape copies already properly collected.

Correct.

Quoting g500 (Reply 9):
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):Can this even be real?
we're talking about TSA here and you're asking if this "can be real"

I'm a corporate pilot, and TSA is the best thing that's ever happened for our industry

Well General Aviation, which includes corproate flying is not subjected to most ot the TSA rules or CFR Title 14 part 1542.

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 10):
I have been in the airline industry for over 22 years and personally I think TSA is a F __CKING JOKE.

That's how I see it. The original mission of the TSA was a sound one, however, they hired the bottom of the society barrel. Then there was pressure (from Congress) to pass everyone through the training, no matter if they could understand the concept or not. The TSA told these 'agents' they were the last line of defense for protecting the airways (that is far from being true), and they have 'authority' just like real law enforcement officers (LEOs), )which again, is not true). So all of this went to inflate the heads of these 'agents', they even gave them uniforms with sown on "badges", which means nothing.

The TSA and DHS under Janet Napolitano is very different from the TSA and DHS under Michael Chertoff or Tom Ridge

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 23):
TSA officers are human just like us so that means they too have fetishes.

Really? When you hire incompetence, all you can expect is incompetence.
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:00 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 35):

The ONE good thing I'll say about TSA hiring is at least everyone speaks English. From the late 90's onwards there were a number of security firms that were hiring illegal aliens at minimum wage to do screening. In the years before 9/11 I encountered screeners with poor English skills at PHX and SFO in particular. I'm sure a lot of things went thru that shouldn't have because the language skills just weren't there to question a traveller. I don't mean pocket knives or box cutters that were legal before 9/11 either. There a lot of things on TSA Blogger Bob's page every week that haven't been legal since the 70's on planes. I bet a lot more went by just fine back then even though X-Ray should have spotted them easily. Of course the bad thing about having screeners who speak English is they will yell at you for very little reason  
 
Maverick623
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RE: TSA Spills Grandfather's Ashes

Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 35):
Well General Aviation, which includes corproate flying is not subjected to most ot the TSA rules or CFR Title 14 part 1542.

Which is why corporate flying is booming, at least relative to the bust cycle we're in.

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 36):
Of course the bad thing about having screeners who speak English is they will yell at you for very little reason

Like I said, a page straight out of the "how to break the populace down" book.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way