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kanban
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Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:48 pm

One of the premier sources of information, Totally Jacked Up Airplanes, has unsubstantiated information that ZA001 is headed to the Smithsonian, ZA002 to the Tokyo Air museum and ZA003 to Seattle's Museum of Flight.

http://totallyjackedupaircraftphotos...87-update-why-za001-za002-are.html

If it comes to pass, it's an excellent choice.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:22 pm

Seems a logical fate for the planes.

The Smithsonian is an appropriate venue as the 787 is a big step in aviation for even if most of her systems have already been in service on other commercial airframes, she did put them together (much like the Boeing 247 did).

And the Museum of Flight needs a 787 because it's a Boeing product and it's a premier museum in it's own right.

And sending ZA002 to Tokyo in launch customer NH's livery is fitting, as well.
 
warreng24
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Museum of Flight needs a 787

They also need a 757 and a 767 to fill in the gap in the family.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting warreng24 (Reply 2):
They also need a 757 and a 767 to fill in the gap in the family.

Hopefully they will get both within the next few years.
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:16 pm

A bit surprised Boeing doesn't keep one them as test airplane. Or will they use ZA004 (or 005 or 006) for those purposes? They have only 2 Business Jet / VIP Customers for the 787-8.... one of them with GE engines, so I expect ZA005 or 6 to be allocated to that customer.
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Stitch
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 4):
A bit surprised Boeing doesn't keep one them as test airplane.

ZA003 has already been used to perform some testing of future possible features like laminar flow leading edges.
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:05 pm

ZA001 is at the museum of flight, I thought.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:20 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
ZA001 is at the museum of flight, I thought.

News to me. ZA003 was at the Museum Of Flight last weekend for a Boeing function...it looks almost identical to ZA001 now that they repainted ZA003 for the Dreamtour.

Tom.
 
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kanban
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:39 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
ZA001 is at the museum of flight, I thought.


ZA001,002 are sitting in the desert less engines and will remain there (per the link) until late in the year.
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:04 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 8):
ZA001,002 are sitting in the desert less engines and will remain there (per the link) until late in the year.

Ah I understand, thanks.

Why was ZA002 painted in NH colors anyway? I'm confused about that. Did NH pay Boeing to do that for their museum?

[Edited 2012-06-29 20:09:27]
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kaitak744
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Why was ZA002 painted in NH colors anyway? I'm confused about that. Did NH pay Boeing to do that for their museum?

The plane was originally supposed to go to ANA. And ANA also being a launch customer may have had something to do with it. The second or third 777 was painted in United colors during testing.
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Why was ZA002 painted in NH colors anyway? I'm confused about that. Did NH pay Boeing to do that for their museum?

By the time Boeing painted the aircraft, it had already been decided to write off the first three frames as R&D. It was a pure marketing exercise for the launch customer.
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:44 am

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 10):
The second or third 777 was painted in United colors during testing.

It may have been both--I know for sure the second was. The third may have been in BA colors...I can remember seeing 777 test flights approaching BFI from the east over my house/school as a kid. UA was the first non-Boeing livery I saw, BA the second. I believe CX was the third. The key difference is that I believe all of those frames went to those customers...the first 777 ended up in CX hands as well and was still active until recently (and for all I know, still is).

Kind of surprising that the Smithsonian is interested in a 787 this early and even more surprising that ZA001 is apparently the one they're getting. I would have bet top dollar that it would be the Museum of Flight's specimen.

[Edited 2012-06-30 01:46:05]
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 12):
The key difference is that I believe all of those frames went to those customers...the first 777 ended up in CX hands as well and was still active until recently (and for all I know, still is).

In fact it is. B-HNL is still going strong with Cathay. Although the entire non-ER 777-200 fleet there is up for sale, or was until very recently. No takers though.


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tdscanuck
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Why was ZA002 painted in NH colors anyway?

It was supposed to go to ANA. Same reason that ZA003 came down the production line with a Northwest rudder.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 11):
By the time Boeing painted the aircraft, it had already been decided to write off the first three frames as R&D.

It was partially painted long before the write-down decision. It was always intended to be painted in ANA livery and go to ANA. When Boeing (not ANA) decided not to send ZA002 to ANA there was no reason to repaint it. For very similar reasons, ZA003 started life in partial Northwest livery. After the Northwest/Delta merger they had to repaint it anyway so they went straight to the Boeing Light livery.

Under the original plan, ZA001 was in Boeing house colours, ZA002 was in full ANA livery, ZA003 was in full Northwest livery.

Tom.
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:02 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 14):
It was supposed to go to ANA. Same reason that ZA003 came down the production line with a Northwest rudder.

Does anybody have a photo of that?   
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Stitch
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:08 pm

 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:43 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 7):
News to me. ZA003 was at the Museum Of Flight last weekend for a Boeing function...it looks almost identical to ZA001 now that they repainted ZA003 for the Dreamtour.

Other than the registration, are there any visible differences between ZA001 and ZA003 on the aircraft's exterior?
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
Other than the registration, are there any visible differences between ZA001 and ZA003 on the aircraft's exterior?

Yes, they simplified the aft end of the livery some by changing the color of the light blue and the extent it covers the fuselage.


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ZA003 on left, ZA001 on right.
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting poLOT (Reply 18):
Yes, they simplified the aft end of the livery some by changing the color of the light blue and the extent it covers the fuselage.

Wow, I've seen both aircraft in the metal (or should I say CFRP) but never noticed the livery differences until now. Thanks for the photo comparison, poLOT.  
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9252fly
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:20 am

What exactly makes these 3 aircraft unattractive to any customer,be it private or commercial?
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:51 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 20):
What exactly makes these 3 aircraft unattractive to any customer,be it private or commercial?

Overweight, extensively re-worked for testing purposes, generally off-spec from what Boeing promises for production 787s. I'm sure other posters can chime in and elaborate here.
 
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:05 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 20):
What exactly makes these 3 aircraft unattractive to any customer,be it private or commercial?

ZA001 was built, then taken apart many timesso the amount of changes made to its structure and fasteners and the lack of initial documentation made its future as a member of All Nippon''s fleet a non-starter. Plus she was overweight by 21,500 pounds. ZA001 is the most expensive prototype in aviation history, reaching 4 billion USD. ZA002 was as well, put together and separated many times as well. Both ZA001 and 002 were suppose to be delivered to NH, but NH rejected those aircraft's. ZA003 and 004 were going to NWA, but then NWA merged with DL, so that deal was off.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Fates For ZA001,002 & 003

Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:16 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 20):

What exactly makes these 3 aircraft unattractive to any customer,be it private or commercial?

They're perfectly attractive to customers...Boeing would have to bring them up to type certificate design before delivering them so their configuration oddities now are a moot point to a customer. They'd especially make good business jets, where their relative overweight has much less impact and you wouldn't bother fitting a production interior anyway.

The problem is how much it would cost to bring them up to deliverable configuration...it would cost more than Boeing could ever get on the sale. The problem isn't that the airplane's can't find customers, it's that there's no business case for Boeing to sell them.

Tom.

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