SA7700
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A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:30 pm

Part 11 of this thread garnered a lot of replies. In some cases the thread takes longer for some users to load and we have therefore started part 12. Please feel free to contribute to the thread:

Part 11 can be found by following this link: A380 Production Thread Part 11

On behalf of the moderators, we hope you continue to enjoy the website.


Rgds

SA7700
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PHX787
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:41 pm

So BA has it's tail now, when will it be completed?
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Someone83
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:42 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
So BA has it's tail now, when will it be completed?

Complete in the form of a delivery should be about June next year if things goes as planned. However the aircarfts should roll out from FAL in TLS sometimes before Christmas
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:15 am

Quoting someone83 (Reply 2):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
So BA has it's tail now, when will it be completed?

Complete in the form of a delivery should be about June next year if things goes as planned. However the aircarfts should roll out from FAL in TLS sometimes before Christmas

The time between arrival of the convoy in TLS and roll-out from the FAL for two latest HoVs was 2.8 months for MSN 087 (TG #1) and 3.5 months for MSN 078 (MH #1). Since the conoy for BA #1 arrived in TLS end of June I think we should be able to see the green BA #1 in September or October, due to the holiday season most probably rather October than September.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:07 pm

No delivery in July???

I was just wondering which airframe could be delivered next. The only candidates I see are:

MSN 101 - EK #22 - A6-EDV - 2012-03 - in TLS since 16-05-2012 (after cabin outfitting)
MSN 085 - SQ #18- 9V-SKS - 2012 - in TLS since 30-05-2012 (after cabin outfitting)
MSN 103 - EK #23 - A6-EDW - 2012-Q3 - in TLS since 14-06-2012 (after cabin outfitting)
MSN 081 - MH #2- 9M-MNB - 2012-Q3 - in TLS since 25-06-2012 (after cabin outfitting)
MSN 092 - SQ #19- 9V-SKT - 2012-Q3 - in XFW since 03-02-2012

However, the two EK-airframes will not be delivered before September 2012. This leaves only MSN 085 and MSN 081 as the only airframes that might be delivered in July 2012.

Any ideas?
 
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Focker
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:51 pm

The latest on the EK frames is that deliveries will resume, MSN 101 - EK #22 to be delivered on July 27.

Source: The forum on www.a380production.com.
 
Someone83
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:36 pm

Today, MSN110, EK's 29th, was ferried to XFW for outfitting, while MSN092, SQ's 19th and last on order, was ferried to TLS for preparations to delivery
 
Someone83
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:32 am

MSN113, EK's 32, is confirmed as being on convoy 16/2012
 
scouseflyer
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:46 am

Quoting someone83 (Reply 6):
Today, MSN110, EK's 29th, was ferried to XFW for outfitting, while MSN092, SQ's 19th and last on order, was ferried to TLS for preparations to delivery

Wow, first operator to complete their order,wonder if they'll order some more soon?
 
parapente
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:33 pm

This may have been covered.
But I was wondering how far the 380 weight reduction programme had got. As I recall it was around the time of the BA production that a step change was being brought in. As I recall they were going to increase the use of ALi/Carbon/Titanium/GLARE to get down/closer to the origonal design weight.

But have no idea where we are.Has the origonal weight target been abandoned,what (if so) is the target weight?

I also recall that BA's aircraft were to be the first with a chage in the AoA of the wings - is that right?

Finally I recall a strong rumour about a year ago I think of some HGW testing at Toulouse. This (I think) did not involve using the stronger 'F/900' wings but just a straight HGW. Did that happen?
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 9):
This may have been covered.
But I was wondering how far the 380 weight reduction programme had got. As I recall it was around the time of the BA production that a step change was being brought in. As I recall they were going to increase the use of ALi/Carbon/Titanium/GLARE to get down/closer to the origonal design weight.

But have no idea where we are.Has the origonal weight target been abandoned,what (if so) is the target weight?

I also recall that BA's aircraft were to be the first with a chage in the AoA of the wings - is that right?

Finally I recall a strong rumour about a year ago I think of some HGW testing at Toulouse. This (I think) did not involve using the stronger 'F/900' wings but just a straight HGW. Did that happen?

Part of these issues were discussed in the previous thread: A380 Production Thread Part 11 (by SA7700 Nov 28 2011 in Civil Aviation) , starting from reply no. 224.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:00 am

Interesting statements from CEO Fabrice Bregier and Airbus programme chief Tom Williams about the A 380-production including plans to change it, unfortunately in German language, maybe there is an English version as well.

Some key statements:
- A 380 production still too slow and too expensive
- in particular cabin outfitting
- the production time is still 25% higher than envisaged
- main task is now to start cabin outfitting earlier
- this could mean reallocating works from XFW to TLS (even if this is a sensitive issue)

Source: http://www.finanzen.ch/nachrichten/a...80-Produktion-beschleunigen-164066
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:49 pm

Did either mention whether the cabin outfitting for new customers was an issue, or is XFW still taking a fair bit of time installing the interiors on airframes like EK, where realistically one would expect they would have plenty of experience by now and installation should be...well...routine.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
Did either mention whether the cabin outfitting for new customers was an issue, or is XFW still taking a fair bit of time installing the interiors on airframes like EK

No, they did not mention if it is about cabin outfitting for new customers or not (sorry for not answering earlier). They just stated that it takes too much time in general. Some more specific statements made in that interview:

- many customers have very special cabin outfitting designs, which are expensive and difficult to install
- the fact that the works for producing the A 380s are shared between the two locations causes additional delays
- they compare the situation with the A 330, where cabin outfitting already starts during assembly of the airframe, whereas for the A 380 the cabin outfitting starts at the end of the production.
- main task is now to start with cabin outfitting as early as possible during the construction time

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
realistically one would expect they would have plenty of experience by now and installation should be...well...routine.

Well, the actual times for cabin outfitting and painting phase (measured from ferry flight to XFW and delivery) are almost constant and did not change over the years (from EK #1 untuil EK #21):

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7127/7590427000_65c97366c5_b.jpg

The overall production time has been reduced signiticantly. However, the cabin outfitting times in Hamburg did not change and that fits to above mentioned statements by Airbus' management.

By the way, in the figure above I marked the production time for EK #22 if being delivered on July 31st (it's still in TLS for the preliminary wing cracks fix). Due to the wing-crack-issue the production time will go up again, in this case to almost 14 months.

Please don't kill the messenger   
 
astuteman
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:46 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 13):

Wow!

So since MSN 013, convoy to first flight has come down from 20 months to reliably 3 months or less, and trending towards 2 months.

First flight to delivery has remained obstinately stuck at 6 months right through the process.

Cabin outfitting has to be the most horrific place to have your bottleneck - all that Work-in-Progress (WIP) just stuck there   

Rgds
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:51 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 13):
The overall production time has been reduced signiticantly. However, the cabin outfitting times in Hamburg did not change and that fits to above mentioned statements by Airbus' management.

So it sounds like the cabin customization Airbus offered continues to bite them over five years later: first with the designs themselves (CATIA) and now with the installation time not coming down even after having significant experience in installing them.
 
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Semaex
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
So it sounds like the cabin customization Airbus offered continues to bite them over five years later: first with the designs themselves (CATIA) and now with the installation time not coming down even after having significant experience in installing them.

I'm not highly educated on the matter, but the only explanation for this trend (or not-trend, however you like to look at it) is that the number of individual A380 costumers have risen, and so have the respective choices of cabin layout.
What I mean to say is that between convoy and first flight, or between convoy and repositioning to XFW, the amount of diversification of the airplane tends to be nil for all costumers. Sure there are different engine choices, but then again, the engines are "only mounted" onto the wings in TLS, while in XFW they have to adapt to the likes and dislikes of every new costumer.
Not trying to talk down the fact that this bottleneck needs to be solved, and that "German Engeneering" can do better. But I think we should be a little more patient with the fellows who are working to make every airplane as good as it gets from the inside. And to be honest, so far I have heard from nobody complaints about the potential rubbishness of the A380 interieur.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 16):
But I think we should be a little more patient with the fellows who are working to make every airplane as good as it gets from the inside. And to be honest, so far I have heard from nobody complaints about the potential rubbishness of the A380 interieur.

Believe me, Airbus' generosity has certainly paid dividends for those of us who fly premium cabins on A380s.   

I was just a bit...surprised, I guess...that after having installed the same cabin in almost two dozen A380s for Emirates, the cabin outfitters at XFW might not have been able to appreciably lower the installation time. And I only say that because I get the impression from Fabrice Bregier and Tom Williams that they expected this to happen.

However, it may very well be the case that cabins take "X" amount of time no matter how often you do them and if some of the work can be done on the TLS line (say things like the overhead bins) while doing other assembly-related work, that would reduce the amount of install work necessary at XFW and overall reduce the time to delivery.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 16):
I think we should be a little more patient with the fellows who are working to make every airplane as good as it gets from the inside

First of all I have to state that I neveer had the intention to say anything negative about the people working in XFW. It was not their choice to give the customers that high level of flexibility that they have now and that they are using.

Remember, it's not only about 9 different customers right now (incl BA), EK for example has two different versions and other operators have changed their configuration later on (SQ, AF, QF).

However, I am afraid that even patience will not help. CEO Enders said about one year ago that they will never achieve the level of "mass production" they have achieved on the A 320. He said that cabin outfitting for the A 380 will be always more like working in a manufacture, rather than in a factory.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 16):
And to be honest, so far I have heard from nobody complaints about the potential rubbishness of the A380 interieur.

There is no question about that (by the way, when will QR receive their first A 380   )
 
art
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
I was just a bit...surprised, I guess...that after having installed the same cabin in almost two dozen A380s for Emirates, the cabin outfitters at XFW might not have been able to appreciably lower the installation time. And I only say that because I get the impression from Fabrice Bregier and Tom Williams that they expected this to happen.

However, it may very well be the case that cabins take "X" amount of time no matter how often you do them and if some of the work can be done on the TLS line (say things like the overhead bins) while doing other assembly-related work, that would reduce the amount of install work necessary at XFW and overall reduce the time to delivery.

Might the lack of decrease in outfitting time not indicate that management and execution of the installation process went according to plan more or less right from the beginning?

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 18):
However, I am afraid that even patience will not help. CEO Enders said about one year ago that they will never achieve the level of "mass production" they have achieved on the A 320. He said that cabin outfitting for the A 380 will be always more like working in a manufacture, rather than in a factory.

Could they throw more hands at each aircraft being outfitted? If the process takes a high number of man hours, is there a possibility of more people working on the aircraft during outfitting, so decreasing the time required? N14AZ''s chart (they're great - thanks) shows a consistent 6 months between FF and delivery. Surely Airbus needs to come up with a plan to reduce that substantially, if at all possible. Not only does it cost money to have all that pre-FF WIP spending 5-6 months in Hamburg, it pushes back delivery dates and some argue that is costing orders.
 
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kanban
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:41 pm

The trend of posts seem to point to the interior complexity and customer variances, those are convenient whipping boys and probably not the problem at all. The problem actually be a combination of too much hand work fitting parts (poor engineering design for manufacture), capacity problems at supplies (internal and external), or too stringent QA criteria.(*) Do we in fact know how much non or sub system interior work is being done (wiring, plumbing, systems, floor panels, sealed floors for galleys and lavs.. etc).. I'd love to see some interior shots of the plane as delivered XFW.. or a time lapse of an interior installation.
Then again, how much work is required in the cargo compartments?

Are they still dealing with incompatible drawing systems? Seems to me all the cabin panels by now should be snap in place regardless of customer. Personally, 6 months is absurd..


(*) had a case years ago where the exterior finish on a window frame was inspected with a 10x lens as an appearance item, and was experiencing a 60% rejection/scrap rate.. someone finally realized nobody was ever closer than 4 feet (boarding) and were generally 50-100 feet away.. so the spec was changed.
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:00 am

You would have thought the cabin is the easiest part. How hard can it be? Snap on some panels, screw the seats on... draw some cables.

Right? Right? Hello...
 
JerseyFlyer
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:04 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 20):
Personally, 6 months is absurd.

If it takes 6 months to fit it all together in the first place, how long will a "D" check take, when it all has to be taken apart first as well?
 
astuteman
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:19 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 20):
The trend of posts seem to point to the interior complexity and customer variances, those are convenient whipping boys and probably not the problem at all. The problem actually be a combination of too much hand work fitting parts (poor engineering design for manufacture), capacity problems at supplies (internal and external), or too stringent QA criteria.(*) Do we in fact know how much non or sub system interior work is being done (wiring, plumbing, systems, floor panels, sealed floors for galleys and lavs.. etc)..

For what its worth I think its possible that the cabling screw up has left them with physical integration issues in the spatial design that are causing great difficulties in the installation sequences/processes.

I can't say it for certain.
But on the product I'm most familiar with, I've certainly seen a set of fairly innocuous looking issues from the engineers standpoint cause absolute mayhem from an installation/physical integration standpoint. And one of the characteristics was that of causing a lot of the installation work to be "bespoke".

The best way out of that is a complete redesign, which ain't gunna happen.
Next best is to identify some low hanging fruit engineering changes that give you the biggest benefits for the smallest input.
Apart from that its a case of using the experience gained from numerous repetitions to drive continuous improvement and embed "leaner" solutions....

Rgds
 
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kanban
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 23):
Next best is to identify some low hanging fruit engineering changes that give you the biggest benefits for the smallest input..



One would have thought we'd be seeing evidence of producibility changes by now. Are the interior's engineers on site or sitting quietly in France?

Quoting astuteman (Reply 23):
Apart from that its a case of using the experience gained from numerous repetitions to drive continuous improvement and embed "leaner" solutions....


when the 'experience gained' appears to be non repeatable... one wonders if there is an actual drive toward improving... the chart above doesn't indicate it.

I wish ferpe read this thread and could offer some insight.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:24 pm

@ Kanban, regarding: A380 interior shots before the interior installation

Here are some examples:

No 1


No 2


No 3


The complete photo stream is here: http://www.mopo.de/mopo,5066608,4947560,item,0.html

Here is even a video made in MSN 038 during cabin outfitting, start looking at 1:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNuq1mEEbLk
 
astuteman
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 24):
when the 'experience gained' appears to be non repeatable... one wonders if there is an actual drive toward improving... the chart above doesn't indicate it.

It doesn't.
And my question there is "Is this where the number of customisation options interracts with an inherently difficult integration so as to limit, or at least fundamentally slow, any learning curve effect..."

You will know I'm a fan of the plane. But it's hard to hide from the evidence that there is a deep-rooted complexity/difficulty in the outfitting of an A380 that after almost 5 years of deliveries Airbus have made very little headway against...

Rgds
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 26):
But it's hard to hide from the evidence that there is a deep-rooted complexity/difficulty in the outfitting of an A380 that after almost 5 years of deliveries Airbus have made very little headway against...

Watching the BBC special on the overhaul of a BA 747-400, there was a fair bit of cabinetry left in the FIRST cabin after they pulled the seats out. And then the new FIRST cabin had even more cabinetry, as well as items like custom window treatments.

Considering how ornate SQ's and EK's First Class cabins on the A380-800 are, as kanban noted up-thread, it just may take a significant amount of time to install them. In some ways, these cabins are more reflective of what one would find on a business jet more than a commercial airliner and just as a biz jet requires a significant amount of man hours to install their bespoke cabins, the same may be the case with the A380.
 
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kanban
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 25):
Here are some examples:


Thanks.. not speaking German I'm not sure how long after arrival the pictures were taken. However things I noticed were buried connections, hand fitting, the plastic being applied to the floors raises questions.. water barrier or temporary surface?.. The stowage bin is that the final surface, a scratch prevention surface or is another decorative shell installed over it? The other thing I sense is every area works at it's own pace rather than as a unit so there are inconsistent levels of completion. There also appear to be flat vertical walls covering the windows - protection or cubicle sides? ..

It would appear that the plane arrives with all blankets, plumbing, electrical and systems hardware in place so the 6 month process flow becomes even more questionable.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 26):
You will know I'm a fan of the plane.


We know.. and I'm looking at this as a typical process improvement challenge not Boeing does it this way so it's better.. no it's different, however there are optimum processes and wasteful processes that can be seen. It's trying to understand them remotely from the wrong side of the factory fence that is difficult. I was involved with both commercial installations and unique C-32 installation, as well as some late 707 Saudi vs USAF/NATO interior installations. All different, yet process wise very similar

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
Considering how ornate SQ's and EK's First Class cabins on the A380-800 are, as kanban noted up-thread, it just may take a significant amount of time to install them.



While complexity and ornate could lead to a lot of build to plane vs build to spec, it doesn't have to be so. If they padded the spec dimensions and have to rework or hand fit on installation, or if they wait for the plane, then measure and hand build interiors, it will always be slow and worse yet the pieces won't be replaceable with spares.. as the plane ages, those measurements will change and as someone noted above what will be the D check flow time especially if they cannot achieve the 'new car' fit.
 
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PW100
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:43 pm

I believe that a not insifnificant part of this interior outfitting inefficiency was iron cast (I think that's the correct phrase?) in the production flow, by a heavy political background with the decission to spit FAL and outfitting between Toulouse and Hamburg.

Nowadays, many large interiour pieces you would want to install before the fuselage sections are mated, as that allows installation of much larger pre-assembled pieces. These items now have to be split up in much smaller sections as they will have to fit through the aircraft doors, rather than a fuselage cross section.

These pre-assembly tasks can now no longer be carried out in parallel, early in the build process, but have to be carried out in a sequential manner after FAL and first flight. BTW, this adds considreably to total cost, as all high value parts (engines, avionics etc), have to be installed 6 - 8 month prior to delivery (=payment). At 3 frames per month, that is an incredable amount of cash tied up in WIP for a very long period!

Tasks in parallel are very nice in that you can relatively easily add workforce to reduce total assembly time. The moment any of these tasks are carried out in a sequential sequence, you are pretty much limited in just increasing workforce, since tasks now have to wait for each other before the next one can be started.

Also, a lot of relatively easy work tasks that are now carried out in Hamburg after FAL and first flight could probably have been done much earlier in the build process, but the split in responsibilities did not anticipate for this work in Toulouse.

I'll bet that Hamburg workforce traffic and tooling/fixture logistics in the fuselage internals are a nightmare in itself . . .

I also believe that this split up in work between FAL and Hamburg, had it's impact on many engineering design and production set-up decisions on airframe parts, interiour parts, FAL lay-out, and tool and fixture designs etc. It could very well be that to make that step change in interior installation efficiency, significant design changes have to made to all these items. Those can be pretty heavy changes to the airframe and outfitting parts, and to the production system. You don't do that overnight, especially not when the assembly process has not fully stabelized yet.

I think Mr. Enders touched on this previously, without going into details, that the split up in work between Toulouse and Hamburg [significantly] reduced assembly efficiency, and could not be easily simplified.

In hindsight, I think Airbus severely regrets this split in Toulouse and Hamburg tasks. Perhaps this should be an important change in production flow for the next generation A380 (-900). It would probably be best to move all A380 work to Toulouse, with a partial FAL redesign (and in return move all Toulouse A32X work to Hamburg). This would allow important design changes, and FAL redesign set up to improve the assembly process significantly. Probably won't happen this decade . . .

PW100
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 29):
I think Mr. Enders touched on this previously, without going into details, that the split up in work between Toulouse and Hamburg [significantly] reduced assembly efficiency, and could not be easily simplified.

That might have been one of the reasons he pushed for all assembly and outfitting on the A350 be done in TLS (which is the case) instead of the latter being done in XFW.
 
r2rho
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:15 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 24):
Are the interior's engineers on site or sitting quietly in France?

The Airbus cabin engineers are all based in XFW actually. So I don't think it is a lack of on-site support, but rather the late start of outfitting in the overall FAL process, coupled with an excessive customization.
 
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kanban
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:54 pm

Excessive customization is frequently mentioned, however that should not lead to these kinds of delays unless changes are being made on receipt of the a/c for outfitting. Engineering should be out and procurement handled..

Another thing I noticed in the video was the lack of maneuvering space when entering the cabin.. so possibly there is a lot of disassemble and reassembly work? We have had that problem with lavs and galleys and the misplacing of components.

Perhaps they need a partial cabin mock-up to pre fit unique pieces.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 32):
Perhaps they need a partial cabin mock-up to pre fit unique pieces.

Airbus took this step with the A350, so perhaps a lesson learned.
 
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kanban
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
Airbus took this step with the A350, so perhaps a lesson learned.


so is pride preventing them from applying the idea to the A380?
 
Someone83
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:57 pm

Latest movement regarding A380 production

MSN111, EK's 29th, had its first flight and was transfered to XFW
MSN101, EK's 22nd, has been flown back to XFW after getting wing repairs in TLS
MSN088, CZ's 4th, has rolled out from outfitting, after 16 weeks
MSN105, EK's 24th, has been transfered to TLS. Maybe for wing repair?
 
Someone83
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:18 pm

MSN101, EK's 22nd, har been delivered
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 36):
MSN101, EK's 22nd, har been delivered

Which makes how many for the year now? A dozen?
 
Aircellist
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:09 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 37):
Which makes how many for the year now? A dozen?

Not even a baker's, I guess
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:25 am

Shot of the flightline from 10 days ago:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tom Collins



Anyone know which MSNs are shown?
 
Someone83
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:19 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 39):
Anyone know which MSNs are shown?

MSN100, should be the unpainted one for TG, while the two unpainted for EK should be 108 and 112. The two painted for EK should be 103 and 105. The one for SQ are either 85 or 92

Quoting Stitch (Reply 37):
Which makes how many for the year now? A dozen?

11 so far this year, and the next one to MH and SQ should be delivered shortly
 
spink
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
Watching the BBC special on the overhaul of a BA 747-400, there was a fair bit of cabinetry left in the FIRST cabin after they pulled the seats out. And then the new FIRST cabin had even more cabinetry, as well as items like custom window treatments.

Yes, but BA completely stripped that 747, did full surface checks AND repairs, and completely re-outfitted it in 5 weeks (or was it 6). If it is taking 6 months just to do the initial outfitting, it should be interesting when the first SG 380 (9V-SKA) gets it first D check which should be either the end of this year or sometime next year (assuming the standard 5-6 year per D check).
 
Someone83
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:38 pm

MSN085, SQ's 18th, has just been delivered and is on its way to SIN

Airbus also twittered that MSN081, MH's 2nd, has been delivered today.

This means three deliveries in July, and 13 so far in 2012
 
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 42):
This means three deliveries in July, and 13 so far in 2012

Lost my guess, but good for them
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
wolbo
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:02 pm

Three A380 deliveries in just two days. That's more like it.  
 
bigjku
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 22):
Quoting kanban (Reply 20):
Personally, 6 months is absurd.

If it takes 6 months to fit it all together in the first place, how long will a "D" check take, when it all has to be taken apart first as well?

I think this is a critical question here. These things are huge capitol investments and time is money in this case. They need to be doing their checks in a reasonable amount of time.
 
goosebayguy
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:38 pm

Did the 380 for Kingdom get delivered? Has anyone any photos of it?
 
Someone83
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:39 pm

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 46):
Did the 380 for Kingdom get delivered? Has anyone any photos of it?


Not delivered and is still in TLS
 
LH422
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:39 pm

Here's a video of the first TG A380 being painted:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new.../video-thai-airways-a380-paint-job
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 12

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:18 am

Since we have now beginning of August, I thought it would be worth to make a review about the potential 2012-deliveries:

Already delivered:
1) MSN 076 - SQ #15 - delivered
2) MSN 082 - SQ #16 - delivered
3) MSN 098 - EK - A6-EDU - 2012-Q1 - delivered
4) MSN 054 - CZ - B-6138 - 2012 - delivered
5) MSN 079 - SQ #17- 9V-SKQ - 2012 - delivered
6) MSN 099 - AF #8 - - delivered
7) MSN 072 - LH #9- delivered
8) MSN 078 - MH - 9M-MNA 2012-Q2 - delivered
9) MSN 067 - AF #9 - delivered
10) MSN 073 - LH #10 - delivered
11) MSN 081 - MH #2 - delivered
12) MSN 101 - EK #22 - delivered
13) MSN 085 - SQ #18 - delivered

Not yet delivered and in different production phases:
14) MSN 002 – pvt
15) MSN 092 - SQ #19 in TLS since 05-07-2012 for delivery => delivery in 2012
16) MSN 103 - EK #23
in XFW since 13-01-2011, back from TLS, where wings modification works were conducted => delivery in 2012
17) MSN 105 - EK #24
in XFW since 28-02-2012, even with the extra trip to TLS for wing modification works (took about 2 months for 101 und 103) there is enough time until years end => delivery in 2012
18) MSN 087 - TG -#1 - in XFW since 05-02-2012 => delivery in 2012
19) MSN 084 - MH #3 - in XFW since 14-03-2012 => delivery in 2012
20) MSN 088 - CZ #4 - in XFW since 26-03-2012 => delivery in 2012
21) MSN 106 - EK #25 - in XFW since 10-04-2012 => delivery in 2012
22) MSN 107 - EK #26 - in XFW since 26-04-2012 => delivery in 2012
23) MSN 109 - EK #28 - in XFW since 11-05-2012 => delivery in 2012
24) MSN 089 - MH #4 - in XFW since 21-05-2012 => delivery in 2012
25) MSN 093 - TG #2 - in XFW since 06-06-2012 => delivery in 2012
26) MSN 096 - KE #6 - 2012 in XFW since 03-07-2012 => delivery in 2012, shortly before years end
27) MSN 110 - EK #29 - in XFW since 05-07-2012 => ???
28) MSN 111 - EK #30 - in XFW since 19-07-2012 => ???
29) MSN 112 - EK #31 - in XFW since 02-08-2012 => ???
30) MSN 108 - EK #27 - outside FAL since 23-03-2012 => ???

For the last four airframes 110 – 112 and 108 it will be very hard. If these airfames will have to make the extra trip to TLS for wings modification (as EK’s 101 and 103 had to do), there is not enough time until years end for cabin outfitting, painting, all the associated test and acceptance flights plus the extra trip to TLS for wings modification works.

But maybe Airbus might decide to conduct the wing modification works in parallel to cabin outfitting (should be possible, correct?).

In case of MSN 108 there is an additional problem (FF in April 2012 but still in TLS). Even with the post-wing-problem production times it wouldn’t be possible to achieve delivery in 2012, even she would be ferried for XFW today.


Preview regarding 2013-deliveries

Airframes already in different construction phases after convoy to TLS:
1) MSN 100 - TG #3 – outside FAL since 12-06-2012
2) MSN 094 - MH #5 – outside FAL since 25-07-2012
3) MSN 120 - CZ #5 – in FAL since beginning of June 2012
4) MSN 122 - TG #4 – in FAL since end of June 2012
5) MSN 114 - MH #6 – in FAL since middle of July 2012
6) MSN 095 - BA #1 – in body join since beginning of July
7) MSN 113 - EK #32 – in parts receiving since end of July

Until years end there will be 14 additional convoys. Assuming that each convoy will include one full set of A 380 parts this would be equal to 7 plus 14 A 380s = 21 airframes that can be delivered in 2013.

Due to the fact that some airframes have been delivered within 10 months between convoy and delivery (the average is 12 months) one could also consider the convoys in January and February 2013. If there will be three convoys per month as planned for the rest of 2012 this would lead to 6 additional airframes and to a total maximum number of 27 airframes to be delivered in 2013.

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