Sheridan125
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BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:39 pm

According to Jethros BA have ordered 2 more 777W's for delivery in Sep/Nov 2014. Anyone know any more about this?
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:47 pm

Can you provide a link?
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
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rotating14
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:49 pm

I couldn't find anything either  
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:51 pm

BA mentioned earlier this month that they could take more 777-300ERs as a hedge against EIS delays for the A350-1000 and 777X as they noted the plane was an excellent fit in their fleet, even if the A350 and 777X would be better.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-it-ponders-big-twin-order-372729/

Last UFO order for the 777-300ER was two on 31 October 2011, so it won't be them, but this could be an option conversion or MoU that hasn't yet hit the books (no 777s appeared on today's Boeing O&D update).

[Edited 2012-07-05 09:57:40]
 
Calpe
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:03 pm

I suppose this must be them converting the last two options they had for the 77W? I thought it would likely be a case of when and not if these two were converted into firm orders.
 
panam330
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:20 pm

What will their 'final' fleet look like then, in terms of numbers?
 
ba319-131
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:41 pm

Sounds like old news, are these not the 2 ordered a while back that will bring the fleet to 8?
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
jfk777
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:11 pm

Why is BA being so timid about 747 sized airplanes ? They ordered plenty of 787 and 12 A380 but only 6 77W's. They need 24 more or even 50 in total.
 
UAEflyer
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:15 pm

An airline with the size of BA order only 2 777s.
While other airlines ordering by dozens, think I cannot understand.
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Why is BA being so timid about 747 sized airplanes?
Quoting uaeflyer (Reply 8):
While other airlines ordering by dozens, think I cannot understand.

BA's 747-400s still have useful life in them and the large premium cabin configuration of the LHR birds means that even though they cost a fair bit to operate, they generate significant revenues.

As such, BA would prefer to wait a few more years for the A350-1000 and 777X to enter service, both of which will offer significantly better operating economics compared to the 777-300ER.

However, with the A350-1000 slipping farther to the right and the 777X still in definition, BA does need to hedge their bets. They have also found, like pretty much everyone else who flies the type, that the 777-300ER is a fantastic platform in the now.
 
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EPA001
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
BA's 747-400s still have useful life in them

And BA usually keeps their birds for a pretty long while in the fleet.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
They have also found, like pretty much everyone else who flies the type, that the 777-300ER is a fantastic platform in the now.

I guess every customer has been impressed with the performance of the B77W after they received it in their fleets.
 
GSTBA
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 6):
Sounds like old news, are these not the 2 ordered a while back that will bring the fleet to 8?

It's definitely not old news. You are right BA did place a order for a further two aircraft a while back. They also yesterday placed a further order for another two 77W's. This will take the fleet up to 10. As yet no official statement online as yet. Official announcement may be made at the Farnborough airshow which begins on Monday. It will be interesting to see if the 2 aircraft are actually part of a larger order.

Aircraft on Order:

G-STBG - Due September 2013
G-STBH - Due November 2013
G-STBI - Due September 2014
G-STBJ - Due November 2014
 
BA174
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:07 pm

Are these off the line or could it be the two available on the second hand market that were mooted here a few months ago.

[Edited 2012-07-05 12:09:16]

Edit: just seen the above post, they must be off the line.


[Edited 2012-07-05 12:12:31]
 
GSTBA
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:27 pm

I believe they are off the line and are currently shown as unidentified order

http://www.777fleetpage.com/
 
G500
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting uaeflyer (Reply 8):
An airline with the size of BA order only 2 777s.
While other airlines ordering by dozens, think I cannot understand.

actually as far as 777s go, BA operates about 50 777s. About the same as AF and Cathay...

I suppose only Emirates, Sinagapore and United have more
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:11 pm

Currently 52 remaining from 55 ordered.

3 B777-236
24 B777-236ER GE90
19 B777-236ER Trent
6 B777-336ER

excludes two sold and one banjoed at Heathrow.
 
flyingcello
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:27 pm

Seems like sensible business for BA...

With a number of 744's being refitted with the new cabin, these will be in service for a long time to come. The 772ERs are still reasonably fresh, and with 787s and A380s to come, BA doesn't need to panic about replacement decisions.

The 773ERs are giving BA access to a fantastic aircraft, but they don't need to buy big numbers...they can incrementally add 773ERs as they see fit, and I'm sure Boeing are giving them an excellent price.

I wouldn't be surprised if they keep adding 773ERs bit by bit, with a gradual shift to the 779X once available.
 
N62NA
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting uaeflyer (Reply 8):
An airline with the size of BA order only 2 777s.
While other airlines ordering by dozens, think I cannot understand.

AA did the "creeping order" thing with the 77W also.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Why is BA being so timid about 747 sized airplanes ? They ordered plenty of 787 and 12 A380 but only 6 77W's. They need 24 more or even 50 in total.

BA saw that they could extend the life of some of their 744s to cover the capacity shortage caused by delays in the delivery of the 787 and 380. Now they are looking at the 350 and the 777X as further 744 replacements. But they have publicly stated that the delays in these programmes will leave them with a capacity shortage that they may not be able to cover by further extending the life of their 744s. So they are using the 77W to fill that gap:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-it-ponders-big-twin-order-372729/

However it is worth noting that the two pending orders are the last two of four options secured at the time of the original oirder placed four years ago:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2008/q3/080807b_nr.html

so the further order is hardly a surprise.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:47 pm

They have been pleasantly surprised by very positive customer reaction to the new B777-300ERs. The downside being people feel hacked off when an older aircraft pitches up at the gate. Now people see what BA can be like with a new product, it's important to have as many as possible on key routes.
 
ghifty
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:18 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 17):
AA did the "creeping order" thing with the 77W also.

Their rate of creep is quite high, and they haven't even received any 77W. Can't imagine how fast they'll order them once they actually have the W in their fleet! 
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mikey72
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:21 am

Always nice to see new babies join the family as others near their time to fly the nest !!

(lol)
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
na
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:31 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
They have been pleasantly surprised by very positive customer reaction to the new B777-300ERs. The downside being people feel hacked off when an older aircraft pitches up at the gate. Now people see what BA can be like with a new product, it's important to have as many as possible on key routes.

And now imagine how they could even do better that way with ordering 748Is!
 
mikey72
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:12 am

Quoting na (Reply 22):
And now imagine how they could even do better that way with ordering 748Is!

Alas I don't think that will happen.

There are too many routes at BA presently that are operated by a 744 when ideally they should be A380 or a VLA twin

I think the 748i is a sort of 'no mans land' aircraft for BA.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
tonystan
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:17 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
They have been pleasantly surprised by very positive customer reaction to the new B777-300ERs. The downside being people feel hacked off when an older aircraft pitches up at the gate. Now people see what BA can be like with a new product, it's important to have as many as possible on key routes.

Aye, having said that when you board one of the ancient 777s which has just received the refresh it really does make a massive difference. Even for the crew it feels like a brand new aircraft!!!!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
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RobK
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:37 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 15):
Currently 52 remaining from 55 ordered.

3 B777-236
24 B777-236ER GE90
19 B777-236ER Trent
6 B777-336ER

Pedant mode on...

3 B777-236
24 B777-236ER GE90
19 B777-236ER Trent
2 B777-336ER
4 B777-36NER

/mode off.

 
 
e195
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:42 am

See http://jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/ba_boeing_b777srs.htm

Nothing official on there just two more at the bottom
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mikey72
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
They have been pleasantly surprised by very positive customer reaction to the new B777-300ERs. The downside being people feel hacked off when an older aircraft pitches up at the gate. Now people see what BA can be like with a new product, it's important to have as many as possible on key routes.

Oh it's the pits.

I was waiting at the terminal once, something went ti*ts up somewhere down the line and a tatty old upholstered rollerskate of a 767 limped up to the gate.

Well, I nearly didn't go.

Actually it was my partner who to be fair probably has to fly more than is good for him.....I think it was something along the lines of...

oh that's ******* it, I'm not ******* getting on that ******* thing.....

Luckily I was able to use my skill and cunning to get my own way.

(Cinderalla did go the ball)

Anyway thank god they've been tarted up.

[Edited 2012-07-06 03:01:36]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:05 am

Quoting uaeflyer (Reply 8):
An airline with the size of BA order only 2 777s.
While other airlines ordering by dozens, think I cannot understand.

That's very common. Many major airlines order aircraft a few at a time, based on financing and other issues. BA did the same for all their 747s for example. Boeing shows the following individual orders on different dates for the numbers of aircraft shown:

747-100: 6, 5, 1, 1, 2, 2, 1
747-200: 4, 2, 2, 2, 3, 1, 1
747-200F: 1
747-200M: 1, 1, 1
747-400: 16, 1, 2, 23, 2, 13
 
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vhtje
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:07 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Why is BA being so timid about 747 sized airplanes ? They ordered plenty of 787 and 12 A380 but only 6 77W's. They need 24 more or even 50 in total.

An also because the 747s are very popular with BA's customers. The premium cabin layouts just seem better on a 747.
 
jfk777
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 14):
Quoting uaeflyer (Reply 8):An airline with the size of BA order only 2 777s.
While other airlines ordering by dozens, think I cannot understand.
actually as far as 777s go, BA operates about 50 777s. About the same as AF and Cathay...
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 15):
3 B777-236
24 B777-236ER GE90
19 B777-236ER Trent
6 B777-336ER

This is a 77W conersation, well all know BA has a large 772 fleet. That is the"Classic" 777, we are now in NG 777: the 777-200LR and 777-300ER.

Quoting vhtje (Reply 29):
An also because the 747s are very popular with BA's customers. The premium cabin layouts just seem better on a 747.

Cathay Pacific has shown us how a 77W can have awsome J class space with its new new J class, copied by AA for its new 77W's. BA's Club doesn't work so well on a 777 as on a 744.
 
mikey72
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting vhtje (Reply 29):
An also because the 747s are very popular with BA's customers. The premium cabin layouts just seem better on a 747.
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
BA's Club doesn't work so well on a 777 as on a 744.

This is true and although they can't keep them going forever they do have a few more years in them yet.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
jumpjets
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:13 pm

Quoting vhtje (Reply 29):
The premium cabin layouts just seem better on a 747.

Being upstairs on a BA 744 in J is heaven. Much better than being in the main cabin below - which of course a 777 can't offer.

By the way can someone explain what is the difference between a 777-300ER and a 777-300NER as mentioned in an earlier posting?
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:33 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 32):
By the way can someone explain what is the difference between a 777-300ER and a 777-300NER as mentioned in an earlier posting?

The differance is in ownership of the aircraft, and corresponding boeing customer codes.

777-336 - owned by BA
777-36N - leased by BA
 
vv701
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:41 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 32):
By the way can someone explain what is the difference between a 777-300ER and a 777-300NER as mentioned in an earlier posting?

As explained by BA CEO, Keith Williams in the interview reported by Flight Global in the first link in Reply 18, for BA the 77W is a stop gap for both the delays in delivery of the 787 and 380 and the delays in specification and production of the 350 and 777X.

The initial batch of six 77Ws ordered by BA were required for quick delivery to cover for the delay in 787 deliveries. In order to get favourable production line positions the six aircraft comprised two aircraft ordered by BA from Boeing carrying the '36' Boeing BA customer code, namely 777 336 ER's G-STBA and 'BF, and four aircraft already ordered by leasing company GE Capial Aviation Services carrying the '6N' Boeing GECAS customer code, namely 777 36N ER's G-STBB to 'BE. However all six of the aircraft when delivered were identical in all respects excepting only their registration markings.

At the time of the above order (November 2008) Boeing reported that BA had taken options on four further aircraft. Last November BA converted two of these options into firm orders and converted the last two options into firm orders this month.

BA rarely uses direct leasing of aircraft preferring other methods of financing orders except when changing circumstances require the quick delivery of the aircraft . So these latest four aircraft will all carry their Boeing customer code and will be 777 336 ERs to be registered G-STBG to 'BJ.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 34):
The initial batch of six 77Ws ordered by BA were required for quick delivery to cover for the delay in 787 deliveries. In order to get favourable production line positions the six aircraft comprised two aircraft ordered by BA from Boeing carrying the '36' Boeing BA customer code, namely 777 336 ER's G-STBA and 'BF, and four aircraft already ordered by leasing company GE Capial Aviation Services carrying the '6N' Boeing GECAS customer code, namely 777 36N ER's G-STBB to 'BE. However all six of the aircraft when delivered were identical in all respects excepting only their registration markings.

Doesn't this show the pointlessness of Boeing's customer code system, if 2 identical 777-300ERs have different codes due to who originally ordered them (even if it was a leasing company and not an airline), whereas their 777-200ERs have 2 completely diferent engines, and different specs, yet have the same 236 code!
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jumpjets
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 34):

Thanks for the explanation - I had if there had been a different variant I'd never heard of.  
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 35):
Doesn't this show the pointlessness of Boeing's customer code system...

The system is now anachronistic with modern production and inventory tracking, which is why Boeing has dropped it with the 787 program.
 
N62NA
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:16 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
Cathay Pacific has shown us how a 77W can have awsome J class space with its new new J class, copied by AA for its new 77W's.

And AA will also be installing the new J on the 772s, yes?
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
This is a 77W conersation, well all know BA has a large 772 fleet. That is the"Classic" 777, we are now in NG 777: the 777-200LR and 777-300ER.

Umm... no. 777-300ER/200LR are also "classic" 777s. There is nothing "next generation" about them, as they were planned as a part of the 777 family when the original 777-200 was conceived.

The 777-8X and 777-9X will be the "NG" 777.
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rutankrd
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 35):
Doesn't this show the pointlessness of Boeing's customer code system, if 2 identical 777-300ERs have different codes due to who originally ordered them (even if it was a leasing company and not an airline), whereas their 777-200ERs have 2 completely different engines, and different specs, yet have the same 236 code!

Not at all Boeing has used the coding system since the 1950s and it specifically refers the the airframe as purchased . NOT the engines (That said the good old 707 intercontinental models were engine differentiated 400- Rolls Royce, 300 - Pratts) many years ago.

Since the 80s the large leasing company purchases by the likes of GPA,ILFC etc.... has lead to the corrupted the system today.

All that said in the case of BA traditionally lease purchased /mortgaged planes have been delivered with the 36 designator.
I can only think of one occurrence a Boeing 757 -2YO previously received direct from Boeing - G-CPEP.

To make things more complicated back in the early eighties BA deferred/cancelled a number of B757 orders then taken up by Air Europe and these retained the 36 customer code on delivery!

There has been very few pre-delivery re-codings by Boeing- In fact i know of only 1 for sure and that was a 747 decades ago - Should have been the Green Braniff -ntu -Type 127 but re-coded as a 1D1 and delivered to Wardair as CF-DJC !
 
superjeff
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 38):
Not at all Boeing has used the coding system since the 1950s and it specifically refers the the airframe as purchased . NOT the engines (That said the good old 707 intercontinental models were engine differentiated 400- Rolls Royce, 300 - Pratts) many years ago.Since the 80s the large leasing company purchases by the likes of GPA,ILFC etc.... has lead to the corrupted the system today.All that said in the case of BA traditionally lease purchased /mortgaged planes have been delivered with the 36 designator.I can only think of one occurrence a Boeing 757 -2YO previously received direct from Boeing - G-CPEP.To make things more complicated back in the early eighties BA deferred/cancelled a number of B757 orders then taken up by Air Europe and these retained the 36 customer code on delivery!There has been very few pre-delivery re-codings by Boeing- In fact i know of only 1 for sure and that was a 747 decades ago - Should have been the Green Braniff -ntu -Type 127 but re-coded as a 1D1 and delivered to Wardair as CF-DJC !

As an ex-Braniff person from that era, I didn't realize they changed the designation. I was always told that the airline identifier (Braniff was "27") also reflected airline-specific options, so a BA "-x36" would be different from another airline's similar airplane, albeit only in minor ways.

jeff
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:59 pm

Thanks JFK777 but I don't think the B777-300ER/200LR is an NG, it's got better engines and a tweaked wing but it's not a next generation product. However good to have the terms of the conversation spelled out to me as if I was thick, something that only happens on the interweb funnily enough... RobK well spotted, can't believe I made that error, I knew some were GECAS examples! Ouch. BA's B744s are losing popularity as rightly or wrongly, people see them as old. It's not a B772 on the latest ad campaign by accident.
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 37):
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 35):
Doesn't this show the pointlessness of Boeing's customer code system...

The system is now anachronistic with modern production and inventory tracking, which is why Boeing has dropped it with the 787 program.

A.net is still using customer codes on 787 photos. Hope they continue to do so as it makes it much easier to track the history of an aircraft when you can immediately identify its original operator, especially after several changes of ownership.
 
tonystan
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 27):
Anyway thank god they've been tarted up.

Dont get too excited....only one longhaul and one shorthaul 767 have been updated so far!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
mikey72
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 44):
Dont get too excited....only one longhaul and one shorthaul 767 have been updated so far!

Oh well, it's a start !
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
loalq
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:21 pm

I don't really care about how old the frames are (apart from the fact that I seem to get a delay on every 744 flight now due to some tech glitch), but BA really needs to work on those Club World cabins in their 772/744 fleet. Some new panels, new TVs with better resolution, updated bathrooms and a slightly longer bed (6ft is just too small when fully extended) would make a huge difference.
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flyingcello
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 23):
There are too many routes at BA presently that are operated by a 744 when ideally they should be A380 or a VLA twin

I think the 748i is a sort of 'no mans land' aircraft for BA.

I still wouldn't rule out the 748i at BA. The Lufthansa justification for the 748i is that they can use it on routes where there is high premium demand, but not as much economy. They can upscale to the A380 for those routes where the economy numbers are higher. This is a model that would work for BA also. And if the fuel price continues to rise, which it generally will despite the current lower prices, having a 748i option between the 777s and A380s might well make sense. Emirates are reportedly thinking this way also. And with the 748F performing better than expected, the 748i should do even better (IIRC, the longer upper deck is aerodynamically superior), even before the PIPs are applied. The 748i could yet be a sales success.
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting FlyingCello (Reply 47):
I still wouldn't rule out the 748i at BA. The Lufthansa justification for the 748i is that they can use it on routes where there is high premium demand, but not as much economy.

The 777-9X would likely be a better platform as it has plenty of floor space for premium seating thanks to the fuselage stretch.

[Edited 2012-07-06 14:22:38]
 
flyingcello
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:31 pm

RE: BA Orders More 777's

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:36 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 48):
The 777-9X would likely be a better platform as it has plenty of floor space for premium seating thanks to the fuselage stretch.

Although the 748i still sits above it in terms of payload capability...unless of course, freight is the big differentiator.

A 777 (or 777X) / 748i / A380 mix would give a BA type airline tremendous flexibility...