gesubsea
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:10 pm

AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:27 am

AUS has been trying to land a long haul flight for as long as I can remember. Now with the 1st year of Formula 1 commencing at Circuit of the America's in November their is now a desire by a number of charter companies to bring wide bodies directly into AUS to include clearing these passengers through customs. Now that the city council has voted against a temporary building (would have been built and maintained by Siemens) due to a $5 million price tag, AUS still has to decide how to deal with the 4-5 wide bodies (777 size and larger full of fans from S.Amer., Emirates and EU) that are wanting to arrive at the same time just days before the weekend event.

Couple that with the fact that many in Austin feel that this clearly seasonal demand is leading to a public desire for a mainline DL, AA, UA service of AUS to LHR, CDG or FRA. The general consensus is that the Central Texas market is still to small to support a mainline long haul flight.

I am wondering whether or not AUS officials should be actually looking to land a low cost discount EU carrier to launch such a service? Would a carrier like Condor of the Thomas Cook group possibly fit the bill in the short/long term by launching a X2 weekly AUS-DUS on one of thier 13 763 in the fleet?
 
compensateme
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:48 am

Quoting GEsubsea (Thread starter):
Would a carrier like Condor of the Thomas Cook group possibly fit the bill in the short/long term by launching a X2 weekly AUS-DUS on one of thier 13 763 in the fleet?

Condor and Thomas Cook focus on European POS, primarily packaged tours to lesiure destinations (think Allegiant). Austin's a great city, but not the ideal Holiday for hoards of Europeans.

[Edited 2012-07-05 18:50:44]
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 1):
but not the ideal Holiday for hoards of Europeans.

Idunno Germans looooooove Texas and the Southwest, and AUS comes as close to their idea of Texas plus it's just a great place in general. I wouldn't say it's that far fetched and if I were AUS airport it might not be a bad way to break into the market.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
compensateme
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

Idunno Germans looooooove Texas and the Southwest, and AUS comes as close to their idea of Texas plus it's just a great place in general. I wouldn't say it's that far fetched and if I were AUS airport it might not be a bad way to break into the market.

Thomas Cook Group would go banrkupt if it staked its future on selling Austin holiday packages to Europeans.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:02 am

AUS is going to be an absolute nightmare in the week before the race. I mean clusterf*** of epic proportions. I absolutely love my city and our airport, and I understand why they turned down this customs facility (we're set to expand the east concourse, including where the temporary building would've been, in the next 5 years), but nothing will say "Welcome to Austin" like a 3 hour line at customs. Even if we could get additional staffing, there's no space. As I recall, our CBP facility only has 3 lanes. Our only alternative is to use the South Terminal, which is just another beautiful pre-fab building that's currently unoccupied (Viva Aerobus used to "live" here before the swine flu outbreak), but even still, that's only another 2 lanes. And that building felt crammed with a 737-300 marginally full of vacationers to Cancun, never mind a full 777. I'm not even sure a full 777 would be under the maximum occupancy of the building! And baggage claim is basically just a rack. Totally unfit for a widebody.

So I'm honestly not sure what our alternatives are going to be. It wouldn't shock me to see a slew of direct flights, via a larger port of entry like DFW or IAH, but I just don't think even a reasonably full widebody is likely, for logistical reasons. If they stagger them enough throughout the day, we could get a few in here, but it's still going to be a disaster.

This will be an interesting few years for Austin. I'm certain Austin is not fully prepared for the massive influx of people they're about to see in mid-November. The question is, can they right the ship for next year's race? Traffic in and out of the COTA is terrible (a two lane road is the main entrance...), and last I read every hotel room in the Austin area is booked, a third of the rooms in San Antonio are booked, and half of the rooms 100 miles north in Waco are booked. Neither our music festivals nor UT football games will approach the huge out-of-state crowds F1 will bring in.

Another thing I'm certain of is how the world's eyes are about to be widely opened to what an amazing place Austin is. From my experiences abroad, less than half of people knew of Austin, and even fewer knew about Austin. The few that did were familiar with our music festivals, and possibly had heard good things, but little else. There's no doubt in my mind that with this large group of foreigners coming to Austin on a regular basis, it will see its notoriety and popularity rise dramatically abroad. I recently showed a couple of people around Austin (both originally from outside the US), and they were absolutely blown away. Texas has a...stigma abroad, at least in my experience. Austin is very different from the rest of Texas, and the whole world is about to see that.

So to come full circle, will any of this lead to long haul service at AUS? My honest opinion is no, at least in the short term. I think you may be onto something regarding it's popularity going forward, but I still think there's not enough demand, either from the business world or leisure, to support anything right now. I won't be shocked at all to see widebodies in Austin around the F1 race date, but it remains to be seen if they'll be scheduled and/or recurring, and where, if any place, they stop on their way into the US.

As a final word, if any a.nutters are coming into Austin for the race (or otherwise), I really enjoy showing people my city. Please hit me up, and at the very least, we'll grab a beer or something.

Also, I am renting out my apartment, and while most prices are really high (I've seen apartments going for well in excess of $1,000/night), I'd be willing to cut an a.netter a deal. So if any of you are still looking for a place, I'm just throwing that out there, as well.

I look forward to hearing others' thoughts on this topic.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
shanderawx
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:06 am

Long haul European flights live on business class fares from corporate tickets, look at the number of Fortune 500 companies in Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth and you can see why they respectively have about 12-13 and 6-7 daily flights to Europe. If San Antonio and Austin had joined forces years ago, the pull of SA's 4-5 Fortune 500 companies and the combined populations bases might have pulled off intercontinental flights. But as it stands I doubt either airport can sustain them.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:10 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
it might not be a bad way to break into the market.

I think this is exactly right. I can't think of a better way to get Austin international exposure than an event like this. Again, I don't see it happening any time soon, but our odds are a lot better now than they were before this race was announced. Simply put, we aren't anywhere near the top of foreigners' lists of cities to visit when coming to the US right now. We are on the C/D-list or so of cities to visit, even though I think we firmly deserve a spot on the B-list.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3):
Thomas Cook Group would go banrkupt if it staked its future on selling Austin holiday packages to Europeans.

   This is also correct. While Austin has plenty of culture, the demand simply isn't there. It makes much more sense to take one of the many nonstop options to one of the two Texas fortress hubs, and then hop on a 30 minute flight to get here.

At the absolute height of the dot-com boom, I maintained (and still do, honestly) that AA could've supported a widebody service to NRT 2x weekly. But even still, it just makes more sense to route people through DFW. For a time, AA60/61 was actually AUS-DFW-NRT, with a change of gauge at DFW. This shows how influential the high tech traffic market was into AUS. But that's all I can really make an argument for, and it's by no means a super strong one.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 3):
Thomas Cook Group would go banrkupt if it staked its future on selling Austin holiday packages to Europeans.

Who said 'staked their future'? But a few roundtrips in the middle of European Winter perhaps incentivized by the AUS airport and/or tourist groups...it wouldn't shock me at all if it worked. At the very least it would provide the AUS promotion groups some valuable experience.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 6):
Simply put, we aren't anywhere near the top of foreigners' lists of cities to visit when coming to the US right now. We are on the C/D-list or so of cities to visit, even though I think we firmly deserve a spot on the B-list.

Whitehorse.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
aznmadsci
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:45 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 4):
Texas has a...stigma abroad

Yes, thanks to Dallas.   
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
huxrules
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:24 am

Continental used to have a flight 34 - AUS to LHR. It just happened to stop in Houston and switch from a 737 to 777. But in all seriousness Austin is in for some real pain. Everything in the city is ready and set to go - for the population in 1995. As it stands right now it is nearly impossible to get through AUS in a reasonable amount of time in the summer. I've had employees miss their flights because it takes hours to get through security in the morning. I think you have the right idea- rent the house and skip town that weekend.
 
aznmadsci
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:58 am

Quoting huxrules (Reply 9):
I've had employees miss their flights because it takes hours to get through security in the morning. I think you have the right idea- rent the house and skip town that weekend.

Has the wonderful TSA opened up all lines of security in the morning? I've traveled through AUS on early morning flights to IAH and there would be long lines at security because they would only have one line open during busy times and all lines open when there is no one.
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
compensateme
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:22 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
Who said 'staked their future'? But a few roundtrips in the middle of European Winter perhaps incentivized by the AUS airport and/or tourist groups...it wouldn't shock me at all if it worked. At the very least it would provide the AUS promotion groups some valuable experience.

To convince European tourists to spend their Holiday in Austin, you would need the best marketing team, not an inexperienced one. Thomas Cook specializes in package beach markets. Not even cosmopolitan cities such as Los Angeles and Chicago have been able to sustain regular European Holiday package charter service.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
PanHAM
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:44 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Idunno Germans looooooove Texas and the Southwest, and AUS comes as close to their idea of Texas plus it's just a great place in general. I wouldn't say it's that far fetched and if I were AUS airport it might not be a bad way to break into the market.

We dooooo, but then we fly to DFW or IAH and take the tour from there. Landing right in Willie's backyard and just go to see AUS and Luck, TX ain't just enough. Plus, the local, lesser known musicians who regularly tour Europe each year (and my town, which I'm proud of, is a regular stop for gigs) won't fill a widebody either.

I wonder where the F1 cargo flights will land, do they fly the equipment to AUS or will it go via IAH where they are used to the An124?
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gesubsea
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:42 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
(and my town, which I'm proud of, is a regular stop for gigs)

Based on your quote and user profile name...might I be correct that you are in Hamburg? If so, my wife says hello as she is also a fellow Hamburger. In fact, she had been working for both Lufthansa and Lufthansa Technik a few years before we married and moved to Houston. We go at Xmas on the A380 for yet another annual visit along with a ski trip down to Austria.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
I wonder where the F1 cargo flights will land, do they fly the equipment to AUS or will it go via IAH where they are used to the An124?

A number of sources are indicating that all F1 cargo traffic including cars will land at AUS and be transported from the airport the short distance to the COTA track 6 miles away. AUS has enough ramp space to support a number of wide bodies away from the main terminal with one healthly 12,000 ft runway from the days it was Bergstrom AFB. They may also close off a number of underutilised taxiways if thier are more than a few widebodies to store before and after the race.

AUS is expecting the usual compliment of cargo flights that fly into other scheduled race event airports and will be supported by the cargo area ground crews likely to include staff from Fedex and UPS as if I recall from working at Fed Ex ramp a few years ago these companies have all the ground equipment necessary to assist with offload efforts. The race in Abu Dhabi ends on Nov. 4th and flights should leave shortly afterwards from UAE bound for the Austin (taking basically an Emirates / QR routing like going to IAH) race set to begin on Nov. 18th. After this race, F1 packs up its road show and heads south 10hrs for the Brazil race less than a week later.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
won't fill a widebody either.

BUT, what about a narrow body? Do any of the charters possess what KLM used to fly into IAH a few years ago like a reconfigured 737 or A320/1 that was geared for Biz class pass. and had extra baggage container sized fuel pods to make the A320 in particular go the distance? An A321 could work for Austin charters with these secondary tanks couldn't it?
 
PanHAM
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 13):
Based on your quote and user profile name...might I be correct that you are in Hamburg? If so, my wife says hello as she is also a fellow Hamburger. In fact, s

My business roots are in HAM where I started my business life but meanwhile I live in a suburb of Wiesbaden, 30 km from FRA airport and we have a club here that features regularly musicians from the AUS music scene (Americana) , besides others. Best act IMHO we had here was Kimmie Rhodes and I had a good talk with her and her son Gabe. A good "hummel hummel" to your wife.

Back to AUS, yes, i know it was Bergstrom AFB , have been there a couple of years ago and what i liked about the airport was the micro brew and live music. Nice terminal.

US customs will be busy when the F1 circus arrives.
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Cubsrule
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:16 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 4):
So I'm honestly not sure what our alternatives are going to be. It wouldn't shock me to see a slew of direct flights, via a larger port of entry like DFW or IAH, but I just don't think even a reasonably full widebody is likely, for logistical reasons. If they stagger them enough throughout the day, we could get a few in here, but it's still going to be a disaster.

SAT is also an option. It's closer than either DFW or IAH and has a decent FIS facility. The drive from SAT to COTA isn't too much different from the drive from GRU to Interlagos.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
vin2basketball
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 4):
AUS is going to be an absolute nightmare in the week before the race. I mean clusterf*** of epic proportions. I absolutely love my city and our airport, and I understand why they turned down this customs facility (we're set to expand the east concourse, including where the temporary building would've been, in the next 5 years), but nothing will say "Welcome to Austin" like a 3 hour line at customs. Even if we could get additional staffing, there's no space. As I recall, our CBP facility only has 3 lanes. Our only alternative is to use the South Terminal, which is just another beautiful pre-fab building that's currently unoccupied (Viva Aerobus used to "live" here before the swine flu outbreak), but even still, that's only another 2 lanes. And that building felt crammed with a 737-300 marginally full of vacationers to Cancun, never mind a full 777. I'm not even sure a full 777 would be under the maximum occupancy of the building! And baggage claim is basically just a rack. Totally unfit for a widebody.

So I'm honestly not sure what our alternatives are going to be. It wouldn't shock me to see a slew of direct flights, via a larger port of entry like DFW or IAH, but I just don't think even a reasonably full widebody is likely, for logistical reasons. If they stagger them enough throughout the day, we could get a few in here, but it's still going to be a disaster.

This will be an interesting few years for Austin. I'm certain Austin is not fully prepared for the massive influx of people they're about to see in mid-November. The question is, can they right the ship for next year's race? Traffic in and out of the COTA is terrible (a two lane road is the main entrance...), and last I read every hotel room in the Austin area is booked, a third of the rooms in San Antonio are booked, and half of the rooms 100 miles north in Waco are booked. Neither our music festivals nor UT football games will approach the huge out-of-state crowds F1 will bring in.

Another thing I'm certain of is how the world's eyes are about to be widely opened to what an amazing place Austin is. From my experiences abroad, less than half of people knew of Austin, and even fewer knew about Austin. The few that did were familiar with our music festivals, and possibly had heard good things, but little else. There's no doubt in my mind that with this large group of foreigners coming to Austin on a regular basis, it will see its notoriety and popularity rise dramatically abroad. I recently showed a couple of people around Austin (both originally from outside the US), and they were absolutely blown away. Texas has a...stigma abroad, at least in my experience. Austin is very different from the rest of Texas, and the whole world is about to see that.

So to come full circle, will any of this lead to long haul service at AUS? My honest opinion is no, at least in the short term. I think you may be onto something regarding it's popularity going forward, but I still think there's not enough demand, either from the business world or leisure, to support anything right now. I won't be shocked at all to see widebodies in Austin around the F1 race date, but it remains to be seen if they'll be scheduled and/or recurring, and where, if any place, they stop on their way into the US.

As a final word, if any a.nutters are coming into Austin for the race (or otherwise), I really enjoy showing people my city. Please hit me up, and at the very least, we'll grab a beer or something.

Also, I am renting out my apartment, and while most prices are really high (I've seen apartments going for well in excess of $1,000/night), I'd be willing to cut an a.netter a deal. So if any of you are still looking for a place, I'm just throwing that out there, as well.

I look forward to hearing others' thoughts on this topic.

Cheers,
Cameron


Just as a question (haven't been to AUS recently during peak vacation time) do you know how heavily the seasonal CUN flights tax CBP?

I concur that Austin is seriously underrated, and suffers from the misconceptions about Texas as a whole. There's actually a lot to do in Austin, but I still think we need that one defining tourist attraction (Disney World, Empire State Building, Hollywood, et. al - except on a smaller scale) to really start driving in that leisure traffic.

Biz traffic is only likely to grow; AUS is such a talent magnet, especially in tech fields, that most lists have it ranked near the top in terms of GDP growth over the next ten years.

Quite honestly, I can see the MSA population hitting 2.5 million by 2022, and real GDP, which is at $78 billion right now and ranked 38th, growing to around 110-120 billion and moving up into the top 25.

And in terms of high yield traffic, Austin should be able to support a long haul flight 10-15 years from now, as well as several Latin American flights, b/c fares into Austin are relatively high.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 6):
At the absolute height of the dot-com boom, I maintained (and still do, honestly) that AA could've supported a widebody service to NRT 2x weekly. But even still, it just makes more sense to route people through DFW. For a time, AA60/61 was actually AUS-DFW-NRT, with a change of gauge at DFW. This shows how influential the high tech traffic market was into AUS. But that's all I can really make an argument for, and it's by no means a super strong one.

I actually think that the first long haul carrier AUS is likely to get will be Emirates. I know this sounds crazy, but AUS continues to see an expansion in it's Asian population, the Indian tech workers in particular. 10 years from now, with potentially 150,000 Asian-Americans, strong biz links to East Asia b/c of tech, Emirates may be able to support 3w A350-900
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2802
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: The temporary international terminal that the City Council voted down:

Here's a link to the presentation, showing renderings and the traffic flows within the facillity.

Austin Bergstrom International
Airport
GateOne ‐ CapacityPlus
Presented by Siemens Industry, Inc.


And here is a link to the backup information:

International passenger arrivals for COTA events

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 4):
I understand why they turned down this customs facility (we're set to expand the east concourse, including where the temporary building would've been, in the next 5 years),

Actually, that was the one good thing about the temporary facility. If you read those backup comments, it said that the temporary facility would have allowed for expansion of the current international facilities in the terminal without a disruption in service.

One question I have is - when these international visitors return home, they won't have to clear customs in Austin, so are they at least going to be able to leave from here, or will they still have to take a flight to DFW, IAH, etc and then continue on to their final destination?

I agree that Austin will be a nightmare that weekend - not just at the airport or on the roads leading to the Circuit of the Americas, but downtown as well. I think they're planning on having an average of 75,000 people on the streets of downtown that weekend - typically what we see during SXSW and New Year's Eve. God only knows how many streets will be closed - and that affects all the Capital Metro Bus service. Half the time when these streets get closed my bus is detoured and I never know where to go to catch it.

Oy vey - we are definitely a city that is having growing pains.

LoneStarMike
 
HOMER71
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 17):
I agree that Austin will be a nightmare that weekend - not just at the airport or on the roads leading to the Circuit of the Americas, but downtown as well. I think they're planning on having an average of 75,000 people on the streets of downtown that weekend - typically what we see during SXSW and New Year's Eve.

Is there a way to confirm the numbers, especially for Downtown? I have an entry for AUS in my travel info website with an estimate of 120,000 for the race itself, but no info on peripheral events that weekend...
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
gesubsea
Posts: 191
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:16 pm

Quoting vin2basketball (Reply 16):
actually think that the first long haul carrier AUS is likely to get will be Emirates. I know this sounds crazy, but AUS continues to see an expansion in it's Asian population, the Indian tech workers in particular. 10 years from now, with potentially 150,000 Asian-Americans, strong biz links to East Asia b/c of tech, Emirates may be able to support 3w A350-900

What I think would make more sense is that another Asian carrier or two begin serving IAH like VN Vietnam Airlines (large Vietnamese pop.) or China Southeastern, China Airlines, or even Air China. NZ even has gone on the record of wanting to possibly start IAH-AKL. Either way, Austin will be a struggle in getting any kind of long haul service without business end contracts as many posters have spoke of.
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:16 pm

It should not be a problem for AUS to handle any special freight flights from overseas. The runways are long enough and capable of handling Group V's and even the AN-124 on occasion. And they have the cargo facilities. Customs is where they will have problems, at least from a passenger standpoint.
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2802
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:18 pm

Quoting homer71 (Reply 18):
Is there a way to confirm the numbers, especially for Downtown? I have an entry for AUS in my travel info website with an estimate of 120,000 for the race itself, but no info on peripheral events that weekend...

Hi Homer - my comments were just based on what I'd read in an article that ran in the local paper last month.

Austin City Council hears plans for city's role in Formula 1 event
Austin American-Statesman
June 14, 2012


Quote:
When people are not at the race, many are expected to attend several downtown festivals, which will require street closures.

"We're preparing for upwards of 75,000 people (a night) downtown, which equates to Halloween and the city's New Year's Eve events," said Melissa Alvarado, a spokeswoman for the city's Economic Growth and Services Office.

LoneStarMike
 
cat3dual
Posts: 72
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:22 pm

With two major fortress hubs in the same state, any hopes of long-haul services to AUS are a pipe dream. It simply will not happen. Period.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 11):
Not even cosmopolitan cities such as Los Angeles and Chicago have been able to sustain regular European Holiday package charter service.

They can't compete with the cheap Y fares already existing in the market.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
We dooooo, but then we fly to DFW or IAH and take the tour from there. Landing right in Willie's backyard and just go to see AUS and Luck, TX ain't just enough. Plus, the local, lesser known musicians who regularly tour Europe each year (and my town, which I'm proud of, is a regular stop for gigs) won't fill a widebody either.

I disagree--but as I said incentivized by AUS it and timed for one of the better known festivals it could be a interesting way for the area to dip their toe in the international longhaul market. It's a risk, but it might pay off.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
gesubsea
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:10 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 17):
One question I have is - when these international visitors return home, they won't have to clear customs in Austin, so are they at least going to be able to leave from here, or will they still have to take a flight to DFW, IAH, etc and then continue on to their final destination?

My thinking would be if they arrive on an international charter, then they will likely leave on the same charter minus customs / immigration from the US. No different then leaving IAH for overseas. One article I read indicated that AUS has 3 gates that they will likely be utilizing on the eastern end of the terminal in gates 1-3. Gate 1 I believe is a true int'l gate with a ramp that allows for loading from the main terminal and door that leads to the customs / immigration level below for arrivals.
 
gesubsea
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:10 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:34 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 12):
We dooooo, but then we fly to DFW or IAH and take the tour from there. Landing right in Willie's backyard and just go to see AUS and Luck, TX ain't just enough. Plus, the local, lesser known musicians who regularly tour Europe each year (and my town, which I'm proud of, is a regular stop for gigs) won't fill a widebody either.

I disagree--but as I said incentivized by AUS it and timed for one of the better known festivals it could be a interesting way for the area to dip their toe in the international longhaul market. It's a risk, but it might pay off.

And I know which your thinking ....

* SXSW Music / Media / & Film Festival (3rd Full Week in March - really is a 2 week event)

* ACL (Austin City Limits) outdoor music fest (4 day weekend in Sept.)

*Formula 1 (November)

* Moto GP (no date yet) - this seems to be an interest my Moto GP to bring a race to COTA (Circuit of the Americas)

* Austrailian V8 (no date yet) - another event that might happen also to stage at COTA
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2802
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 24):
One article I read indicated that AUS has 3 gates that they will likely be utilizing on the eastern end of the terminal in gates 1-3. Gate 1 I believe is a true int'l gate with a ramp that allows for loading from the main terminal and door that leads to the customs / immigration level below for arrivals.

Gate 1 is a ground level gate that hasn't been used in years. The only airline that ever used it was Austin Express (formerly Conquest.) Gate 2 is the international gate. I think it's what you call a swing gate, The jetway has two sets of doors - one leading to customs and the other leading out onto the main concourse. When an international flight arrives, the doors leading to the main concourse are locked - forcing you to go to customs. Gate 3 is a domestic gate with the jetway from the plane leading out into the main concourse. It's the one formerly used by NW and now currently used by DL. (DL also uses Gates 5 & 6, but Gate 4 is vacant. I read somewhere that the airpot might ask DL to use Gate 4, freeing up Gate 3, but even then, it seems like you'd still have to wall off Gates 1, 2 & 3 from the rest of the concourse to keep people who deplane at Gate 3 from wandering out into the main concourse.

For reference, here's the layout of gates in the concourse.

AUS - Concourse Level

LoneStarMike
 
2travel2know2
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:22 pm

With DFW and IAH sort of next door chances are almost none that AA or UA would show interest to fly long-haul from AUS (or SAT for that matter). AA or UA to somewhere in Latinamerica/Caribbean out of AUS/SAT or AV-TA/CM flying there, that's another subject.
That pretty much leaves non.U.S. airlines to woo to one day start flights to AUS/SAT and the most logical options IMHO would be - given if there's a huge incentive from the Texas side and companies with interests on the route. AUS/SAT most likely would have to settle for an European non-stop either by BA (LGW) or LH (MUC). While a daily flight may be the dream, best is to settle for probably seasonal 3/4 times per week.
BA flies to MIA, MCO and TPA in Florida, while AUS/SAT is no TPA, AUS/SAT could learn from TPA airport dealings with BA, also AUS/SAT still have to learn how RDU has kept its European non-stop and replicate that model.
I can't visualize IB @ AUS/SAT, as almost all the Texas Hispanics and Latin-immigrants aren't Spain-centric.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
aznmadsci
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:37 pm

Why couldn't AC or AM maintain their AUS service? Were they given incentives to start service?
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
gesubsea
Posts: 191
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:41 pm

Quoting the Statesman's Ben Wear 'City to consider $5.5 million customs facility for F1 flights'

Updated: 10:40 p.m. Tuesday, June 26, 2012

Published: 10:29 p.m. Tuesday, June 26, 2012

Currently, Austin's only regular international service involves AirTran and United flights to and from Cancún, Quintana Roo, typically on Boeing 737 airplanes with 130 to 140 seats. The existing customs facility can handle 90 to 120 passengers an hour, the city said.

Austin should expect several chartered jumbo jets from overseas, each carrying 350 or more passengers, in the days before the race, based on the experience of other U.S. cities that have hosted F1 races, Smith said. Charter carriers are not required to notify an airport more than 30 days out that they are coming, Smith said, so the city does not know how many might show up.

"We may get no charters. We may get 15," he said.

Indianapolis, which hosted F1 races from 2000 through 2007, had six to 12 international charter flights per year, Smith said. The result here, he said, would be very long lines and a several-hour wait for people to get through customs.

"That's not the way to put your visitors in a good mood," Austin City Council Member Bill Spelman said.

The alternative to building a temporary facility, Smith and Spelman said, is to inform charter operators that they will have to land in Dallas-Fort Worth or Houston instead. Race fans would then have to take connecting flights to Austin or get here via car or bus.

"That would be a viable option and wouldn't cost any money," Smith said. "The downside is that it wouldn't help Austin's image."
 
DariusBieber
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:12 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:45 pm

In all seriousness, this won't ever happen unless DFW or IAH gets shut down.

[Edited 2012-07-06 08:47:29]
Darius Bieber
 
HOMER71
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 21):
my comments were just based on what I'd read in an article that ran in the local paper last month.

Thanks for the info, Mike


As for the East Concouse expansion, how many additional gates are they planning to add?
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
DariusBieber
Posts: 188
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:49 pm

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 22):
With two major fortress hubs in the same state, any hopes of long-haul services to AUS are a pipe dream. It simply will not happen. Period.

California has two major fortress hubs (LAX and SFO) and San Diego has BA service.
Darius Bieber
 
gesubsea
Posts: 191
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 32):

Good point! But San Diego is a LGW service correct?
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2802
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting homer71 (Reply 31):
As for the East Concouse expansion, how many additional gates are they planning to add?

From what I've read, the expansion will add 9 new gates, but they'll be added in two phases. Phase 1 will add 4 new gates, with the other 5 gates being added in Phase 2. There's more information at the link below:

Capital Improvement Program
Austin Bergstrom International Airport
Presented by Jacobs Consultancy


LoneStarMike
 
DariusBieber
Posts: 188
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 34):

Good point! But San Diego is a LGW service correct?

Actually, as a matter of fact, it is LHR service.
Darius Bieber
 
southwest737500
Posts: 611
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:13 am

Why does AUS need a nonstop flight to Europe, who wants to go to Austin Texas. Just make a connection

It's like asking why isn't there a nonstop flight from OKC to Europe
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
DariusBieber
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 38):
It's like asking why isn't there a nonstop flight from OKC to Europe

Whole different dynamics there. AUS has a population of almost 1 Million, plus they have the world renowned University of Texas. Loads of music festivals, etc... lure people to that city.

SAT has a population of over 1.4 Million now, 7th largest city in the US. SAT attracts more tourists than any other city in Texas. It has Sea World, the River Walk, the Alamo, and various other Missions.

OKC isn't up to those standards. Apples and Oranges there.
Darius Bieber
 
gesubsea
Posts: 191
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 38):

Hmmm...the same thing could be said for places like CLT (we all know LH is supporting its German companies in the surrounding areas this much is true, but you enjoy the priviledge correct?), SAN (its had BA to LHR for awhile and just landed JP 787 recently...but it still has LAX & SFO for connections right?) or even Ireland's SNN (a secondary very small airport with the usual 2-3X daily Aer Lingus flights from JFK & BOS but also for a time had DL flights from JFK and ATL).

For AUS its rather simple really..support for the tech industry abroad in relation to Dell's HQ, Samsung's factory prescence in both Austin as well as its sister link abroad in Germany, Whole Food's HQ supporting its presence in EU, the Siemens, the Statoil's, the IBMer's, the Microsoft's, the Apple's, 3M's, the Motorola's, even the Film and Music industry (Austin is the little Hollywood here in Texas the last 15 yrs), and how about the Stars of the entertainment industry (I'm sure Sandra Bullock, Matthew McConnahey, or even Dennis & Kim Buffington-Quaid would much rather travel in 1st class out of AUS occassionally? Then their are the throngs of students int'l & domestic (100k+ strong when you take into account Univ. of Texas, Texas State, St. Edward Univ. and even Austin Community College). Now dare we say tourism attractions like SXSW (last count for 2012 the attendance was 30,000 and included a great deal of international bands and spectators), Formula 1 (Austin expects 120,000 people for that doozie of an event and everyone knows that F1 fans are not from around these parts  and the list could go on. The bottom line I think that Austinites are seeking from some kind of opportunity for an overseas flight is global exposure and alittle bit of prestige that goes with it ...
 
southwest737500
Posts: 611
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:51 pm

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 40):

Nope.. Do you see two huge fortress hubs aroun CLT. Oh yea that's right it's ATL and CLT. U guys under estimate CLT

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 39):

Orlando has seaworld. Who in there right mine would fly from europe to go to SAT to go to seaworld

Orlando is the one that comes in my head of vacation


Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 39):
SAT has a population of over 1.4 Million

No need for it European service , DFW and IAH are such a short hop away

[Edited 2012-07-08 15:46:53 by srbmod]
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
RGElectra80
Posts: 423
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting DariusBieber (Reply 39):

I agree it's apples to oranges, but your points don't really support the case. SAT is largely a small town disguised as a major metropolis. Large employers of the area don't really have large international operations. Valero and Tesoro are probably the exceptions, but Whataburger and USAA are mostly serving North America. Rackspace has a bigger slice of international business but definitely not enough to justify medium-to-long-haul international non-stop service out of SAT. Valero and Tesoro folks who travel abroad have a plethora of options out of IAH to large oil industry hubs worldwide. Probably half of the 35-50-minute IAH-SAT flight is spent taxiing at IAH on most days so it's essentially a hop away and thus not a large nuisance to go to IAH to catch a flight to DOH or DXB.

Sea World is a joke. Want to throw in Fiesta Texas, too? :p Why would tourists from abroad come to San Antonio for Sea World when they can go to the Orlando one and couple it with visits to Disney parks and Universal Studios to boot?
austinspotter.wordpress.com
 
Cubsrule
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 41):
Nope.. Do you see two huge fortress hubs aroun CLT.

That argument makes no sense. A Europe-CLT flight flies straight over EWR, JFK (2 legacy hubs), PHL and IAD.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
southwest737500
Posts: 611
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:49 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:52 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 45):

How does it not make sense. CLT and ATL are huge hubs. It's like asking why does GSP not have a direct flight
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 2962
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:32 am

Well whatever we may get, I guarantee you we won't have 3 777s arrive within an hour like we did today! AA 81 from LHR, AA 37 from MAD, and EK 211 to IAH all diverted here!

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
UNITED91
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:17 am

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 41):
Nope.. Do you see two huge fortress hubs aroun CLT. Oh yea that's right it's ATL and CLT.

I do not see how this argument is relevant here. It doesn't matter if DFW and IAH are near by, if there is enough demand for a AUS-Europe flight it shouldn't make a difference.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 38):
who wants to go to Austin Texas. Just make a connection

As MaverickM11 stated earlier, Austin is a great place in general, and I have to agree. The few times I've been there I've been quite impressed, great city.
 
southwest737500
Posts: 611
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:49 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:48 am

Quoting UNITED91 (Reply 49):

If there is enough demand where is the flight
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
southwest737500
Posts: 611
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:49 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 45):

Europe-RDU flies over EWR,IAD,JFK,PHL
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:31 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 50):

Look, you seem to be dead set on misrepresenting what people are saying, all the while pretending to know it all, and frankly, it's kind of annoying. I don't think anyone is saying Austin as it stands right now could support service to a European city, but many people on here rightly identify the opportunities Austin will have to grow in international popularity in the coming years. Will this translate to intercontinental service? More than likely no. But there are plenty of cities (SAN and SJC come to mind) that are very close to large hubs with international service, yet still have service of their own. You've given absolutely no indication you understand anything about the city of Austin, or why there would be international demand for such a city. In situations like that, it's best to not pretend you do (life lesson worth learning, btw).

There is almost zero chance that you'd ever see AA or UA (or any US airline, for that matter) start an AUS-Europe flight, for the reasons which you and everyone else have made abundantly clear repeatedly. But that's only one half of the equation. The point being raised in this thread is Austin, in the coming years, has a fairly unique opportunity to raise its international profile, which, with a city of its quality, will almost assuredly increase the travel demand. I've never met a single person from abroad that didn't love Austin. Does that mean there will be sufficient demand to bypass US fortress hubs? Probably not. But it is certainly not as ridiculous a topic as you seem to think it is.

The Austin MSA is one of the 3 or 4 largest MSAs to not have had any intercontinental service (SMF, MCI, and CMH are the others, if I'm not mistaken). And cities smaller than Austin (Hartford, for example) have had European service. It's also the fastest growing MSA in the top 100 (by a considerable margin), and the second fastest growing overall. When you combine its growth rate, its international appeal (read: industries), and its opportunities to increase international exposure, it makes sense to think about.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
southwest737500
Posts: 611
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:49 pm

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:37 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 52):

Well make a thread for me the day the service is announced  
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
UNITED91
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:17 am

RE: AUS Int'l Service - Condor / Thomas Cook?

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:43 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 52):

Completely agree, well put.

Austin is a great city, and has a lot going for it. The city is one of the fastest growing in the country, and I think it's only a matter of time before Austin gets some European service.

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