LAXintl
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Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:47 pm

Travel + Leisure Magazine is out with its "World's Best Awards".

While covering many categories, for the airline segment its global readers voted the following:

Top US Domestic Airlines
1. Virgin America
2. JetBlue
3. Hawaiian Air
4. Southwest
5. Frontier

Top International Airlines
1. Singapore
2. Air New Zealand
3. Emirates
4. Korean Air
5. Cathay Pacific


Full results, and details about all the categories:
http://www.travelandleisure.com/worldsbest

=

[Edited 2012-07-06 09:48:06]
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cat3dual
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
1. Virgin America

Apparently they didn't consider financial performance (or lack thereof) in their selection criteria.

[Edited 2012-07-06 10:12:42]
 
LAXintl
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:58 pm

Its a consumer survey - meant to highlight companies and products that represent the very best in travel.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
loalq
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:05 pm

SQ is not a surprise in any list, not sure about Korean though...

SQ has undoubtedly the best Economy product out there. And a very strong Business class.
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rwy04lga
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:17 am

None of the top domestic carriers have much international service and none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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huaiwei
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:30 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):
None of the top domestic carriers have much international service and none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.

Dosen't that apply to most airlines on this planet, good or bad?
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
zkeoj
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:13 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):
none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.
NZ and KE have quite sizeable domestic services...

From personal experience on both carriers, I think that NZ is just as good as SQ. In fact, I prefer NZ these days. As always, it is a matter of personmal taste  Smile

Cheers
micha

[Edited 2012-07-07 05:14:28]
 
Sandager
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:10 pm

Quoting loalq (Reply 3):
SQ has undoubtedly the best Economy product out there.

Things might have changed but every single time I have flown on SQ, only in Y, I have left the aircraft completely and utterly unimpressed. Uninspiring crew and food and entertainment like any other airline.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting loalq (Reply 3):
SQ is not a surprise in any list, not sure about Korean though...

KE is certainly not a surprise when I read their TR on this forum and others.

For me it definitely shows that SkyTrax is an outdated and over-rated website (Haha Hainan 5 stars !!).
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9v-svc
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting Sandager (Reply 7):
Things might have changed but every single time I have flown on SQ, only in Y, I have left the aircraft completely and utterly unimpressed. Uninspiring crew and food and entertainment like any other airline.

I don't agree that SQ is the number 1 spot. Top airline but certainly not number 1. Sorry to say this but SQ is one overrated airline, and this comes from someone living in SG.

Charles
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):
None of the top domestic carriers have much international service

Currently, but they are expanding. 4 out of the 5 airlines in the top US Domestic Carriers categories don't even own a widebody aircraft (yet), and two of those are fairly young but are "spreading their wings" outside the US. My airline has only been around for 12 years but currently has service to the following places that are outside of the US and its territories (I may be missing a few):

BDA
NAS
CUN
POP
PUJ
STI
SDQ
LRM
SXM
UVF
BGI
AUA
BOG
SJO
LIR
CTG

With WN taking over FL, they too will be adding international destinations.
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rwy04lga
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:44 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 10):

You're right, that IS a lot of (short-distance) intl flights!   What's next, BLI-YVR? Watch out, Delta!

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 6):

'Sizeable' implies LARGE. Neither NZ or KE have a LARGE domestic system.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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huaiwei
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 9):
Sorry to say this but SQ is one overrated airline, and this comes from someone living in SG.

I do not consider CX outstanding either, and QF was downright horrid. So just what exactly is an outstanding airline for Y?

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 11):
'Sizeable' implies LARGE. Neither NZ or KE have a LARGE domestic system.

As I wrote, name me one airline with a large domestic and international network. I find it hard to name even one major airline with a 50-50 split between international and domestic ops.
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 12):
name me one airline with a large domestic and international network.

Delta, United, and American. Ooops, that's three. But none of them made it to the top of a list. So, if you have both a large domestic system and a large international system, you'll never make it to the top.

PS....where did you 'write' that?

[Edited 2012-07-08 08:58:47]

[Edited 2012-07-08 09:02:40]
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Viscount724
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting zkeoj (Reply 6):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.
NZ and KE have quite sizeable domestic services...

The world's single busiest air route is a domestic route in Korea, Seoul Gimpo-Jeju (GMP-CJU), with something like 90 flights a day in each direction. Of the 6 carriers on that route, KE accounts for about 20 daily flights each way. KE has a few other domestic routes with up to 15 daily flights.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Its a consumer survey - meant to highlight companies and products that represent the very best in travel.

Those types of surveys are best ignored. And many of the magazine's readers probably haven't even flown on the carriers they're supposedly rating. For example, it amazes me that anyone would rate EK among the best carriers considering their 10-abreast Y class product on their huge 777 fleet.
 
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huaiwei
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 13):
Delta, United, and American. Ooops, that's three. But none of them made it to the top of a list. So, if you have both a large domestic system and a large international system, you'll never make it to the top.

Those three have "large" international networks compared to their domestic ops? Really? Cite me the figures, please?

Even by absolute numbers, their "international networks" fall behind several Asian and European airlines. Sorry, but they don't make the cut either. Just look at how pathetic American is in Asia for instance! Delta only has a presence here thanks to swallowing up NW, and US got it thanks to Pan Am.
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mercure1
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:57 pm

Embarrassing for the major US airlines which try to make so much of their “superior” product and services.
Clearly consumers are not deceived or impressed.

But good for Virgin, JetBlue, Hawaiian, Southwest and Frontier running circles around the big boys
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 16):
Embarrassing for the major US airlines which try to make so much of their “superior” product and services.

The EU carriers are slowly joining the US carriers and Asia is only a few years behind them.

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 15):
Those three have "large" international networks compared to their domestic ops? Really? Cite me the figures, please?

AA's international capacity alone is roughly the same size as SQ's total capacity, and their domestic capacity is even larger.
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LAXintl
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:25 pm

Yes I think its interesting that smaller US niche carriers such as Virgin, JetBlue, Hawaiian which serve so many fewer passengers than the majors manage to leave such a positive impression that they tend to come in tops in survey after survey.
Or I suppose it might be the other way around also, that the majors leave such mediocre impression in consumer minds, when these little boys come around and provide a free smile and hello the customer are won over.


For the international guys, I think all 5 are quite solid carriers, with great overall products and networks. I don't view a single item such as the lack of a significant domestic network, or 10-abreast seating in Y class as being negatives when viewed in the larger context.
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EA CO AS
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 1):
Apparently they didn't consider financial performance (or lack thereof) in their selection criteria.

At all:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Top US Domestic Airlines
1. HUGELY unprofitable
2. Profitable
3. Unprofitable
4. (of late) Unprofitable, save for fuel hedging
5. Unprofitable

One of my company's VPs was discussing the fact that, had VX been able to compete in the JD Power survey (they don't qualify since they don't serve enough destinations), they'd have blown our doors off. "How would we compete with them for that award annually?" he asked?

"If all things remain equal, why would we care if we lost to them?" was my reply. He seemed shocked.

Yes, customers may perceive that they have a better product, but we make money and they don't, and they'll have a hell of a hard time getting Airbus to accept JD Power Awards as payment for aircraft. Or employees to use JD Power Awards to pay their mortgages. Or car payments. Or groceries.

So at the end of the day would you REALLY rather be the sexiest airline parked at Marana, Goodyear, and Imperial? I wouldn't.

[Edited 2012-07-08 10:41:34]
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
LAXintl
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 19):
"If all things remain equal, why would we care if we lost to them?" was my reply. He seemed shocked.

You care as these awardx are free positive advertising. Often especially the bigger ones like JD, there will be stories in tons of publications, and the award is something the company can utilize in its own advertising for the year.

So even if the free advertising only drives one more passenger to the winner, its potentially one less passenger the non-winner would carry.

I bet many did not care about Apple back in the day, with their geeky products, but now look at how they have become a huge force the industry deals with. IMO this is exactly what happened with Southwest and allowed them to grow and become the huge competitor they are. So yes imo it would be naïve not to worry about VX, or any other one of these carriers. Burying your head in the sand will not make them go away.
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 19):
"If all things remain equal, why would we care if we lost to them?" was my reply. He seemed shocked.

You care as these awardx are free positive advertising. Often especially the bigger ones like JD, there will be stories in tons of publications, and the award is something the company can utilize in its own advertising for the year.

So even if the free advertising only drives one more passenger to the winner, its potentially one less passenger the non-winner would carry.

I understand that, and while I agree that there are certainly areas where my carrier can and should beef up both the hard and soft product to compete more aggressively, it can and should. But on a bigger scale what makes more sense - winning that one competitive battle, or winning the competitive war as a whole? I'd say winning the war is the more crucial piece overall, wouldn't you?

So again, if spending tons of money to have seatback IFE, in-seat power, flashy in-seat ordering systems and a "hip" buzz about you ultimately equals JD Power Awards, then so be it...but not at at the expense of a -18.35% ROIC! That's suicide.
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 11):
'Sizeable' implies LARGE. Neither NZ or KE have a LARGE domestic system.

It's all relative though isn't it. Of course NZ's domestic network is no where near the size of US carriers, but then what do you expect for a country of 4-5 million people. I will say though that NZ's domestic flights far outweight the number of international services so primarily by number of flights and aircraft, NZ is a primarily domestic carrier just like many other US airlines.

33 Aircraft for Short Haul & Long Haul International vs 69 for domestic, its not hard to see that they are not really a big international airline
 
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:45 am

Quoting loalq (Reply 3):
SQ is not a surprise in any list, not sure about Korean though...

A professor of transport I met once told me that the issue that held Korean back from many airline awards was the fact they served kimchi in their meal service! And this is a guy who is regularly consulted by various air transport bodies.
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huaiwei
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:18 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
AA's international capacity alone is roughly the same size as SQ's total capacity, and their domestic capacity is even larger.

Yes I certainly do not question the overall sizes of the thee Amrican legacies. What I am pointing out is in reference to the original assertion about sizes of domestic versus international ops. You actually are agreeing that their domestic ops is much larger than ther international ops. None of the three legacies mentioned have a balanced 50-50 split, do they?

So again, it is not unusual when

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 4):
None of the top domestic carriers have much international service and none of the top international carriers have much domestic service.

since that is true for most airlines anyway, good or bad. I just hope no one therefore tries to use this as an "excuse" for bad service!
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
LAXintl
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 21):
winning that one competitive battle, or winning the competitive war as a whole? I'd say winning the war is the more crucial piece overall, wouldn't you?

Sure the war matters ultimately, but each battle matters also as it can either weaken or strengthen you.

Not paying attention to too many battles can mortally wound a company.
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 21):winning that one competitive battle, or winning the competitive war as a whole? I'd say winning the war is the more crucial piece overall, wouldn't you?
Sure the war matters ultimately, but each battle matters also as it can either weaken or strengthen you.

Not paying attention to too many battles can mortally wound a company.

Again, I agree, but right now VX is the equivalent of the guy with the kick-ass sound system and killer neon package on the '72 Torino up on blocks with no engine. Flashy ride, but it doesn't matter what it looks and sounds like if it can't be counted on to get you where you want to go this time next week.
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
VXCabinCrew
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:53 pm

This site gets so silly sometimes! Let's just congratulate all the winners and move on lol Whether VX is going to go out of business or not, or NZ has a large domestic network or not is really irrelevant. All of the above airlines are good at what they do and maybe the airlines who aren't winning awards will buckle up and realize it's time to improve their product  
 
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:58 pm

Quoting VXCabinCrew (Reply 27):
This site gets so silly sometimes! Let's just congratulate all the winners and move on lol

Fair enough. VX does have an impressive product, and it's clear that consumers love them.

It's also fair to point out that in their current state, it's questionable whether consumers will be able to enjoy them in the long run. Time will tell.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
skycub
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

Top US Domestic Airlines
1. Virgin America
2. JetBlue
3. Hawaiian Air
4. Southwest
5. Frontier

Well, I would gladly trade being NUMBER ONE in this survey for actually making a profit.

A lot of good being # 1 in this survey does when you can't make any money!

It's rather ironic, though.... people apparently LOVE Virgin America's product, but they sure as heck aren't willing to pay anything extra to get it!

(Oh, and PS... Congrats to JetBlue for having a good product that people are actually willing to pay for AND paying your employees a fair wage! Kudos to you!)

[Edited 2012-07-09 20:07:38]
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VXCabinCrew
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:21 am

Quoting skycub (Reply 29):
It's rather ironic, though.... people apparently LOVE Virgin America's product, but they sure as heck aren't willing to pay anything extra to get it!

Trust me, people are willing to pay for our product. We command fares equal to the larger carriers in **most** of our markets (not the newer markets) and our FC is usually full with full-fare guests on our established routes.

Our financial results are from factors other than fare revenue, i.e., fuel costs, reservation transition, new training facilities, new market costs (PHL, PDX, PSP, PVR), increase in new hires, new uniforms this summer for 2,000+ employees, etc.
 
Ps76
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:39 am

Hi!

I wouldn't take this report too seriously. So one magazine asks it's readers (probably very few of actually who reply) what airlines they thought were best. I bet you an Anet survey would produce much more accurate results!

A few of my thoughts if interested:

Virgin America - I know very little about them. It would be interesting to know what they do that it is rated so no.1. Free meals? Free IFE? They give you the whole can?!

Jetblue - I think they give you a free pack of chips and a drink. Maybe 1 checked bag free?

Hawaiian air - maybe a free meal on that long flight to Hawaii?

Southwest - I think you only get a drink free if that but I think 1 checked bag free?

Frontier - No idea.

I always thought Midwest AIrlines was highly rated in the US but I think they no longer exist. They used to give free hot cookies to all.  

Singapore Airlines - I haven't flown them in many years but I'm sure they're still good. My friend finds them expensive flying on the London-Singapore route compared to Emirates. I don't know how their other routes are priced.

Air New Zealand - No idea.

Emirates - I keep hearing they have good fares but 10 abreast on a 777 is horrible. Their first class is incredible though.

Korean Air - I only know from trip reports on Anet but they do look really nice from what I've seen. I don't think they only serve kimchi either any more!

Cathay Pacific - No idea.

Anyway thanks for posting. Was interesting reading.

P.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:28 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 28):
Fair enough. VX does have an impressive product, and it's clear that consumers love them.

And they picked up 3 more awards today at Skytrax 2012 event.

Best Domestic Airline North America
Best Low Cost Airline North America
Best Staff Service North America

  
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peanuts
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:53 pm

Any type on readership ranking is simply highly subjective.

Stroke your ego if you want or lick your wounds. It is what it is. Highly subjective.

As a matter of fact, it's dubious at best...

[Edited 2012-07-12 10:54:02]
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: Travel + Leisure Magazine: VX & SQ Best Airlines

Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 31):
Jetblue - I think they give you a free pack of chips and a drink. Maybe 1 checked bag free?

Free **unlimited** snacks which include:
PopCorners Popcorn Chips
Terra Blues Potato Chips
Terra Blues Potato Chips Summer BBQ Flavor
Linden's Chocolate Chip Cookies
King Nut Fancy Nut Mix
Stauffer's Animal Crackers
Quaker Multigrain Fiber Crisp

and free **unlimited** non-alcoholic beverages which include (and yes, you get the entire can):
Coke® / Diet Coke® / Coke Zero® / Sprite® / Sprite Zero®
Seagram's Ginger Ale
Seagram's Seltzer Water
Seagram's Tonic Water
Ocean Spray® Cranberry Juice Cocktail
Ocean Spray® Orange Juice
Ocean Spray® Apple Juice
Campbell's® Tomato Juice
Mr. & Mrs. T Bloody Mary Mix
Arizona® Iced Tea
Dasani Bottled Water
Dunkin' Donuts® Original Blend Coffee
Dunkin' Donuts® Decaf Coffee
Dunkin' Donuts® Decaf Tea
Dunkin' Donuts® Tea


Special snack boxes are available for purchase along with alcohol. IFE includes PTVs with 36 channels of DirecTV, 100 Channels of XM Radio, 3 movie channels from Fox Inflight Entertainment. 1 free checked bag.

For information on the inflight experience, please reference their website:

http://www.jetblue.com/flying-on-jetblue/

 
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"