lh600
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Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:26 pm

The article says its from June 14 to August 31 because 'Iranian authorities have announced they will not provide fuel to Austrian and other European airlines during that timeframe.'

Weren't the European airlines already making fuel stops? Any news about other airlines? LH, KL, BA...



http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/new...-temporarily-suspends-tehran-route
 
JU068
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:35 pm

So they are targeting the European airlines during the busiest period - smart move. I wonder what impact this might have on the Middle Eastern carriers and if their loads will improve to/from Iran.
 
bwaflyer
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:58 pm

Quoting LH600 (Thread starter):
Weren't the European airlines already making fuel stops? Any news about other airlines? LH, KL, BA...

bmi have been stopping in Yerevan each way on the daily service
 
LOWS
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:54 pm

Maybe OS is sending the traffic over MUC or FRA?

The 737s are going, and maybe there's a fleet shortage?
 
lh600
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 4):

But the article says its due to the Iranian authorities denying them fuel.
 
chieft
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:59 pm

LH and KLM are using long haul aircraft on its IKA flights and thus do necessarily require a fuel stop.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
lh600
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):


  
 
chieft
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting chieft (Reply 5):
LH and KLM are using long haul aircraft on its IKA flights and thus do necessarily require a fuel stop.

Mishap, sorry. I meant: do not necessarily require a fuel stop.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
JU068
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:07 am

Doesn't KLM stop in Athens for refueling? I think there was a thread some time ago.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:17 am

Quoting chieft (Reply 5):
LH and KLM are using long haul aircraft on its IKA flights and thus do necessarily require a fuel stop.

If my previous post on the subject hadn't been deleted (I accidentally referred to the reason for the fuel stops, oops), you would have been able to read that KLM fly the MD-11 and / or A330-200 to IKA, both of which are indeed long-haul aircraft, and used to stop for fuel in Athens. However they now operate nonstop, which is only possible if they can buy fuel in IKA. And the only way that would be possible is if Iran Air can buy fuel in AMS. What would be nice to learn is how sensible people have prevailed at AMS, and perhaps something similar can happen everywhere else. These fuel stops achieve nothing because no-one (except, perhaps, OS) has dropped IKA as a destination, and Iran Air still serve the ports across Europe they served before the fuel embargo. All that is achieved is a big waste of fuel, time, and a lot of harmful emissions that contribute no benefit.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
chieft
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:41 pm

LH600 and LH 601 are operated with B744 and A346. Both legs non-stop.

[Edited 2012-07-08 11:18:06]
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
lh600
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 9):

Can anyone confirm that KL is buying fuel in IKA?
 
a300
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:43 am

FRA-LAX is 9343 km, which gets LH A340-600 and B747-400 non-stop.

FRA-IKA is 3784 km by great circle route. The total round trip distant would be less than 8000 km. I suspect that with a full fuel load out of FRA, a refueling in Tehran could be avoided.
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
 
laca773
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:09 am

Quoting a300 (Reply 12):
FRA-LAX is 9343 km, which gets LH A340-600 and B747-400 non-stop.

FRA-IKA is 3784 km by great circle route. The total round trip distant would be less than 8000 km. I suspect that with a full fuel load out of FRA, a refueling in Tehran could be avoided.

Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?
 
chieft
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:42 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?

The main reason using the large planes is the refueling issue. But there is also a huge demand.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:16 am

Perhaps max landing weight is a consideration when landing at IKA with enough fuel for the return trip in the tanks. Bigger aircraft probably have more flexibility with this as they have huge tanks and high MLW number...?

An OS A320 or B737 probably takes a big payload restriction if tanks are full + they must be within max landing weight at IKA.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
JU068
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Don't forget that Lufthansa has a massive network which can probably guarantee such aircraft. Also I am sure they get a share of the Iran>US market.
 
bwaflyer
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:53 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Even little old bmi manage to fill a daily 149 seat A321 to the rafters.
 
laca773
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 16):

Don't forget that Lufthansa has a massive network which can probably guarantee such aircraft. Also I am sure they get a share of the Iran>US market.

This makes sense. Thanks for mentioning that. Being from Santa Monica, I'd be very interested to know what airline people fly on for the most part going to IKA. Since TK and EK started service to LAX, I'd be surprised to not see a good portion of those using IST and DXB to transfer into IKA.

Quoting bwaflyer (Reply 17):

Even little old bmi manage to fill a daily 149 seat A321 to the rafters.

Very true.

Quoting chieft (Reply 14):

The main reason using the large planes is the refueling issue. But there is also a huge demand.

That does make sense, especially if Iran won't allow Western airlines refuel there.
 
lh600
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?

Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?

I regularly fly LH600/601 connecting SFO-FRA-IKA and flights are usually full. IR is also very popular among expats in the US and EU.
 
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Semaex
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:35 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 1):
So they are targeting the European airlines during the busiest period - smart move. I wonder what impact this might have on the Middle Eastern carriers and if their loads will improve to/from Iran.

It'd be yet another sanction "the west" has put up which turns out to hurt nobody but its own industry.

Quoting chieft (Reply 7):
Mishap, sorry. I meant: do not necessarily require a fuel stop.

If Iran is going to deny fuel, and time-wise it's not smart to make a stop in, say ATH, it's all about the MLAM restriction and the consideration, whether carrying the fuel for the home-trip already on the outbound is a smart move financially.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
chieft
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 20):
If Iran is going to deny fuel, and time-wise it's not smart to make a stop in, say ATH, it's all about the MLAM restriction and the consideration, whether carrying the fuel for the home-trip already on the outbound is a smart move financially.

Well, the basic question is, if you have the choice.
If you cannot get fuel on your destination and if you want to avoid further costs related to additional landings, then it is definitely cheaper, if you have the right aircraft, to take the inbound fuel on the outbound flight already. The fuel on your forced fuel stop must be very cheap to satisfy an additonal landing. Don't speak about the inconvenience for your pax.
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
lh600
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:13 pm

Tyrolean Airways to operate flights for Austrian Airlines starting Sept 1st.

VIE-IKA VO871
IKA-VIE VO872

VIE/Tyrolean-Airways-VO/" target="_blank">http://www.jetradar.com/flights/Tehr...to-Vienna-VIE/Tyrolean-Airways-VO/
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:13 pm

With what metal they plan to operate the route?
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
lh600
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:04 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 23):

I'm guessing B763?
 
Tupolev160
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:40 am

I didn't know VO operates widebodies as well. I thought only Austrian did in the group.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
JU068
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:41 am

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 25):

Due to higher costs Austrian has been moving its operations onto its Tyrolean brand. Most, if not all, flights are operated by Tyrolean now.
 
LOWS
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 26):
Due to higher costs Austrian has been moving its operations onto its Tyrolean brand. Most, if not all, flights are operated by Tyrolean now.

All OS flights are now operated by Tyrolean, but still carry the OS code.
 
bennett123
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:20 pm

Will IKA be a casualty of the BA takeover of BD?.
 
IR800
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting lh600 (Reply 11):
Can anyone confirm that KL is buying fuel in IKA?

Yes, KLM does buy fuel from Iran Air (not directly from the fuel provider company) at IKA, and so does Iran Air at AMS.
The same applies to Alitalia at IKA and Iran Air at MXP. Austrian also used to buy fuel at IKA, and sell to Iran Air at VIE till recent weeks.
Note that Lufthansa has been using 744s for this route since before they couldn't buy fuel, and sure they have much demand for it.
Now it is said that Tyrolean Airways will start this route again, served nonstop by A320.
 
JU068
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting IR800 (Reply 29):

But I thought Alitalia used to have a technical stop in Ankara. Has something changed?
 
cedarjet
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:33 am

Re demand on this route, Lufty used 747s (and A340s) to Tehran before the fuel nonsense, so yes, they need the capacity. Most of the traffic connects to LA (aka "Tehrangeles" - nearly 1m Iranians live there). Remember, before the type was banned by the EU, IR flew 747-100, -200 and SP to many European cities. And KLM are still flying MD-11 / A330 to IKA even though they can now buy fuel at IKA. Air Asia and China Southern fly in, unnoticed in all the contraversy re European carriers.

The portrayal of Iran in our media leads us to think of the country as a political metaphor but remember it is also a reasonably wealthy nation of 80 million people with lots of mineral and energy wealth, with other industries (agriculture, plastics, defence, inbound tourism, rugs, caviar etc). So no reason why there shouldn't be lots of air traffic.

PS it's been near the top of Cathay's wish list for years, true story. A brief period of political stability is all it will take to launch the route.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
IR800
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:26 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 30):
But I thought Alitalia used to have a technical stop in Ankara. Has something changed?

Yes, they used to. But now they can buy fuel at IKA. Even sometimes Iran Air has its fuel stop at FCO or MXP for ORY-IKA flights.
 
chieft
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:49 am

Quoting IR800 (Reply 29):
Yes, KLM does buy fuel from Iran Air (not directly from the fuel provider company) at IKA, and so does Iran Air at AMS.
The same applies to Alitalia at IKA and Iran Air at MXP. Austrian also used to buy fuel at IKA, and sell to Iran Air at VIE till recent weeks.
Note that Lufthansa has been using 744s for this route since before they couldn't buy fuel, and sure they have much demand for it.
Now it is said that Tyrolean Airways will start this route again, served nonstop by A320.

Many thanks for that information!
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
jumpjets
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:51 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 28):
Will IKA be a casualty of the BA takeover of BD?.

I doubt it - BA operated the routes in its own right many years ago - then they farmed it out to BMED who operated it as a franchisee in BA colours - which in turn was sold to BMI who took over the route. So as with other routes like BEI operated for some time by BMED its full circle for these routes and I guess BA will keep them running - assuming they are still profitable.
 
JU068
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:53 pm

Quoting IR800 (Reply 32):

Thank you for the information. It is really great to see them being able to refuel in Rome! I hope more airports follow...
 
cedarjet
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 28):
Will IKA be a casualty of the BA takeover of BD?.

No way, that A321 is full every night, and fares are very high for a (only) 4h30m flight. Yield yield yield. Btw when BA used to fly to THR, the metal was 767-300ER. Not saying it'll upguage from the A321, the two countries don't even have diplomatic relations (embassies etc) but no way will BA leave the route.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
IR800
Posts: 54
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 35):
It is really great to see them being able to refuel in Rome! I hope more airports follow...

I hope so too! Note that Iran Air has suspended FCO, and only use this airport as a refueling option.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 36):
Not saying it'll upguage from the A321, the two countries don't even have diplomatic relations (embassies etc) but no way will BA leave the route.

Most of BMI passengers are transit travellers to North America. So it is not unlikely that BA will upgrade the route to B767. Maybe so they could avoid the fuel stop too! (not sure if 767 could do the return route without refueling)

[Edited 2012-07-13 16:48:42]
 
lh600
Posts: 157
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 31):

What's stopping Cathay?
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:30 pm

Quoting LH600 (Reply 38):

This:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 31):
A brief period of political stability is all it will take to launch the route.
Quoting IR800 (Reply 37):
Note that Iran Air has suspended FCO, and only use this airport as a refueling option.

Isn't there enough market for Iran Air to launch FCO flights? If they are routing some of their flights via Rome, why not make some money on the sector?

[Edited 2012-07-14 06:31:09]
 
lh600
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:21 pm

RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:46 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 39):
Isn't there enough market for Iran Air to launch FCO flights? If they are routing some of their flights via Rome, why not make some money on the sector?

IR used to operate THR/IKA- FCO for a long time. Not sure why it was cancelled.
 
bwaflyer
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:48 am

RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting IR800 (Reply 37):
Most of BMI passengers are transit travellers to North America. So it is not unlikely that BA will upgrade the route to B767. Maybe so they could avoid the fuel stop too! (not sure if 767 could do the return route without refueling)

Even if it could, it would need to stop to swap crew, since the suspension of diplomatic relations, crew are not permitted to stay in Tehran.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 36):
No way, that A321 is full every night, and fares are very high for a (only) 4h30m flight

non-stop flying time IKA-LHR is around 6 hours (with holding at LHR can reach 6:30!), not bad for an A321. Currently flying times are 1:15 IKA=EVN, and 4:45 - 5:15 EVN-LHR with around 45mins in EVN.
 
flySFO
Posts: 100
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 36):
Btw when BA used to fly to THR, the metal was 767-300ER.

I flew SFO-LHR-THR-LHR-SFO on BA back in 1997. I recall the second leg being operated LHR-LCA-THR-LHR triangle, can anyone confirm this? I specifically remember a 45 minute stop in Larnaca (we stayed on the plane) on the way to Tehran but not on the return. Was this a B767-300?
 
chieft
Posts: 326
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RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:10 pm

Austrian will resume Tehran service from 22.08.12, 11 days earlier than planned.
The airline will operate 3 weekly flights, and increases to 5 weekly from September on.

They previously operated 5 weekly flights prior to suspension
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting chieft (Reply 43):

I guess they will get the fuel in Tehran? Does this apply to all European airlines or..?
 
IR800
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 7:51 am

RE: Austrian Airlines Temporarily Suspends IKA Route

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:46 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 44):
I guess they will get the fuel in Tehran? Does this apply to all European airlines or..?

Currently Iran Air receives fuel at VIE. So Austrian can get fuel at IKA too.

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