irishair98
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:31 am

why dont EI start west coast to SFO and LAX again by the looks of it demand is there but there not bothering till the A350's arrive but they could terminate the MAD - IAD route or not use the A330 for the malaga route
Dún Na Ngall Abú!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4579
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:57 am

Quoting irishair98 (Thread starter):
why dont EI start west coast to SFO and LAX again by the looks of it demand is there but there not bothering till the A350's arrive but they could terminate the MAD - IAD route or not use the A330 for the malaga route

The MAD-IAD route is part of a joint venture with UA. EI probably can't terminate it before the contract ends without paying some hefty fees to them. And that is assuming that flight is unprofitable, which considering that is operating from a UA hub with a UA partnership is probably not an easy assumption to make.

[Edited 2012-07-07 21:00:49]
 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:07 am

The Malaga route sits between an early east coast arrival and a later east coast departure from Dublin. This is an excellent use of an otherwise idle aircraft.

West Coast flying from Europe is an expensive exersize. In the boom times of Ireland this market failed to make money, and in the emerging post recession of Ireland and shaky California economy, now is not the time to relauch.

Perhaps when EI chooses an alliance partner for travel to Australasia this will add to the potential of this market and determine the gateway.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:17 am

Easily: Ireland is out of money. Can't afford to send their state-owned airline to an expensive airport like LAX or SFO.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
phxa340
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:22 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):

Only 25% is government owned. FR owns a lot of it too.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2085
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:10 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Easily: Ireland is out of money. Can't afford to send their state-owned airline to an expensive airport like LAX or SFO

Um, not so easily, actually.

Aer Lingus is not a state airline. Only a 25% share of it is owned by the government, and that will be sold off shortly.

Besides, even if it was state owned and controlled, trying to say that a country which has the 4th highest GDP per capita in the European Union "cant afford" to send its airline to an airport is a ridiculous notion - more especially when the airline is in private hands anyway and is profitable.
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:26 am

EI contemplated a return to the West Coast last year but decided the pending losses were too great. There was a big push by the Bay Area business groups to establish a link between the Bay Area and Dublin. After this fell through, according to the article, they were to lobby UA.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...nance/2011/0819/1224302695232.html
 
User avatar
Schweigend
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting poLOT (Reply 1):
The MAD-IAD route is part of a joint venture with UA. EI probably can't terminate it before the contract ends without paying some hefty fees to them. And that is assuming that flight is unprofitable, which considering that is operating from a UA hub with a UA partnership is probably not an easy assumption to make.

When does that JV contract between UA and EI for the IAD-MAD service end? The flights seem to be pretty full, based upon spot checks of seat availability online. I guess they could either extend the co-operation, or United could do the route on its own metal.

It is interesting to me that Aer Lingus is operating their A330 on behalf of United to MAD, which is a OneWorld hub. Is EI permitted to sell seats on this flight and connect passengers at Madrid? I just tried to verify this myself, but for some reason the Aer Lingus website won't load.

Quoting legacyins (Reply 6):
EI contemplated a return to the West Coast last year but decided the pending losses were too great. There was a big push by the Bay Area business groups to establish a link between the Bay Area and Dublin. After this fell through, according to the article, they were to lobby UA.

Hmmm....

UA could possibly make DUB-SFO flights work using refurbished two-class 763s or new 788s. Perhaps not daily, or year-round, but I think it could be done!

Should EI bail on OneWorld and join Star?? It could happen --

 
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:24 am

EI are not even in Oneworld.
 
User avatar
Schweigend
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:12 am

You are correct, I didn't remember that.

I can still see them joining Star, now that bmi is gone from that alliance, and even moving their wet-lease A330 from IAD-MAD to SFO-DUB! If UA and EI work together, the route could succeed.

Edit to add:

O&D DUB-SFO traffic aside, it seems to me that EI and UA could offer each other nice connections at both ends. UA to Hawaii, Australia, and the U.S. west coast, and EI to places in Ireland, the UK, and northern Europe.



[Edited 2012-07-08 00:48:08]
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:42 am

If the route was viable, why would United need Aer Lingus? Even in a stronger market like LHR-LAX/SFO, it's got seasonal cutbacks and even then it's hard to make good yields on when fuel is high, added to the fact much of the traffic flies one stop via an Eastern hub for less. DUB-LAZ was tricky in better days and Aer Lingus have neer sustained a profitable operation beyond the core JFK/BOS/ORD routes.
 
User avatar
Schweigend
Posts: 463
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:04 am

I don't know -- maybe DUB-SFO can be viable only if UA and EI work together.

Onward connections at Dublin would help fill the plane, and pax entering the USA from a DUB flight would be pre-cleared for Customs and enjoy a more pleasant entry into the country, if the policy of clearance in Ireland for U.S.-bound pax holds.
 
richardw
Posts: 3131
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:19 am

Not good aircraft utilisation with a small long haul fleet.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:46 am

Quoting irishair98 (Thread starter):
why dont EI start west coast to SFO and LAX again

One assumes they make more money flying to JFK, BOS, ORD and MCO than they would flying to LAX or SFO. Otherwise they'd switch it in a moment!
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
G500
Posts: 1252
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:45 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:33 pm

well let's not forget that only a few years back they were flying to LAX and SFO, and their loads were healthy. Even San Jose was being rumored back then
 
lax777lr
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:42 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:51 pm

All goes back to the bottom line of many threads: loads are very different than yields.
 
irishair98
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:39 pm

EI would get great loads but they could do a test run of the flight LAX 4x week and SFO 3x week , seen as EI are using there codeshare agreement with UA on the MAD - IAD route in return UA could do a DUB - SFO or DUB - LAX it could work but it would be better seeing the green shamrock on the west coast  
Dún Na Ngall Abú!
 
EIDL
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:11 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 2):
Perhaps when EI chooses an alliance partner for travel to Australasia this will add to the potential of this market and determine the gateway.

They have CX and QF surely? Even if its only those airlines selling the tickets as is the case with all of their alliances - I'm still at a loss as to why they don't sell tickets for the KL, BA, CX and QF flights that they're perfectly willing to have tickets sold for them on!



If they take their entire A350 order *and* hold on to the newer A330s they will realistically have to look at West Coast and Canada again.
 
User avatar
shamrock350
Posts: 4647
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:57 pm

Aer Lingus had no problem filling the aircraft, LAX was always very strong load wise and I don't think SFO was bad either but as fuel started to creep up it became very difficult to remain profitable and that's before the recession even started. Business loads weren't great though so the yield just wasn't there when things got tough. Management at Aer Lingus stated the Irish market just wasn't willing to pay the fares required to make west coast profitable again, they expected the same type of fare they were used to on JFK, BOS and ORD.

Aer Lingus recently mentioned looking at expansion on transatlantic again, one new routes could be possible but it was East Coast only. It seems in the medium term west coast has been ruled out and there doesn't seem to be much movement from other airlines either.
 
styles9002
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 8:21 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 5):
a country which has the 4th highest GDP per capita in the European Union

another point in support of how GDP is becoming less and less relevant as a accurate measure of actual economic prosperity. Most of Ireland's GDP is accounted for by multinationals engaging in the 'double irish' accounting maneuver. A better metric is to look at GNP. While still not a great measure, it gives better insight into the Irish economy, which is dreadful at the moment and will be struggling for a while to come.
It is what it is.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2085
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:17 pm

Quoting Reply 19):
another point in support of how GDP is becoming less and less relevant as a accurate measure of actual economic prosperity. Most of Ireland's GDP is accounted for by multinationals engaging in the 'double irish' accounting maneuver. A better metric is to look at GNP. While still not a great measure, it gives better insight into the Irish economy, which is dreadful at the moment and will be struggling for a while to come.

GNP is still above EU average - anyway, this misses the rather silly point of "Ireland" not being able to send "its state airline" to the apparently uber expensive LAX because it doesnt have any money! lol
 
heysfo
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:31 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:23 pm

I always did enjoy seeing EI at SFO ... thought it was a good match.... DUB-SFO
I always enjoyed the Irish green at SFO, Always thought with the loads of Irish in the Bay Area it would make sense
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2085
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 18):
Management at Aer Lingus stated the Irish market just wasn't willing to pay the fares required to make west coast profitable again, they expected the same type of fare they were used to on JFK, BOS and ORD.

This was a problem alright, but I think the situation may be different now. Fares on the US market have really increased - a few years ago, people buying advance economy fares from say Dublin to New York expected to pay maybe 300 euro in low season. You are lucky if the lowest available fare is 600 euro now, and the market is holding its own, in fact is back to growth again. People have been re-conditioned into expecting to pay higher fares again.

Business really wants this flight back (especially SFO), but if they want it so bad, they are going to have to put their money where their mouths are and buy J tickets. I really dont see EI moving on this unless they get a firm commitment from companies in the tech sector to buy up J class seats. They will fill the back no problem.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 14):
well let's not forget that only a few years back they were flying to LAX and SFO, and their loads were healthy.

Let's not forget losses were unsustainable and so consequently, they were dropped. Europe is really forming around karge legacy carriers with healthy feed and a large base, that's not Aer Lingus. Some smaller nations do OK in a niche market like Finnair marketing the quickest way to Asia being through HEL, but Malev, LOT and Austrian amongst the second tier of former flag carriers can't build growth on long haul.
 
styles9002
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 8:21 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 20):
GNP is still above EU average

Another comparison that is not really useful since Ireland's cost of living is also high when compared to other EU nations.

Again, much as it with all economics, GDP/GNP are not all encompassing metrics and are often misapplied and misunderstood since they don't take into account any elements of leisure time or well-being, volunteer or charitable works or qualitative measure of 'happiness', however you choose to define such. It also includes spending on items we wish we didn't have to spend on (insurance, security, lawyers) if society wasn't as litigious or deceitful and which could probably be better spent elsewhere (idea taken from Bastiat and his 'broken window' fallacy.

Regardless, I don't think we will see any non-stop flights from the US West Coast to Ireland anytime soon, from either Irish or US airlines as there really isn't the year round demand to warrant it. Existing services can provide the necessary air links to get someone to and from easily. Beyond that, California is going to face a day of reckoning sooner than later as it eventually runs out of money.
It is what it is.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2085
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):
Let's not forget losses were unsustainable and so consequently, they were dropped.

LAX made a profit. Then SFO was started, but performed less well than anticipated. EI then dropped LAX to focus on SFO to prevent any cannibalising of the route, in expectation that SFO was the route that would really prove itself.

Ultimately, SFO was pulled as the Global Financial crisis took hold.

LAX even survived the post 9/11 cull of US routes when EI's survival was in question, which speaks volumes as to its profitability.
 
styles9002
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 8:21 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 25):
Ultimately, SFO was pulled as the Global Financial crisis took hold.

LAX even survived the post 9/11 cull of US routes when EI's survival was in question, which speaks volumes as to its profitability.

So it sounds like this was a management error in your estimation? If so, the fundamentals should still be there to support the service. Or, it is probably a case of a 'new normal' where what worked during the decade of irrational exuberance won't work during a decade of rational austerity.
It is what it is.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18834
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 9):
O&D DUB-SFO traffic aside, it seems to me that EI and UA could offer each other nice connections at both ends. UA to Hawaii, Australia, and the U.S. west coast, and EI to places in Ireland, the UK, and northern Europe.

Ireland-Hawaii traiffic must be very small. And Ireland-Australia via SFO is at least 1,200 miles further than via Asia, but UA/EI would have to offer competitive fares, probably even lower than the fares via Asia to convince passengers to travel the longer distance and deal with all the U.S. immigration and security hassles they avoid when routing via Asia.

Also, fares from Ireland to Australia via Asia are usually about the same as for the much shorter route from the U.S. west coast to Australia, which means you're carrying the passenger between Ireland and SFO for nothing. Not very smart economics. I just checked current fares DUB-SYD for random dates in mid-August and in almost all cases the lowest fare SFO-SYD is almost the same, and in some cases higher, than DUB-SYD.

You can generate far more revenue by selling the seats to two separate passengers Europe-SFO and SFO-SYD than by selling a through fare all the way.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2085
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting Reply 26):
So it sounds like this was a management error in your estimation? If so, the fundamentals should still be there to support the service. Or, it is probably a case of a 'new normal' where what worked during the decade of irrational exuberance won't work during a decade of rational austerity.

I'd expect EI are still a little hung up on SFO, and in their estimation, if anything is going to come back, its San Francisco.

I'd be for bringing back the route that worked solidly for 10 years, and survived every route cull during that period - Los Angeles. It's proven. SFO is not. Even if it does offer such potential. I dont blame EI for the decision they made - they guessed that SFO would be the stronger performer of the two routes due to Tech sector links, and Irish preference for San Francisco as a tourist destination. It just didnt work out for them.

I think current fuel cost is a big issue also (and let's face it, thats probably never going to go away). EI also need to work on product and frequent flyer programme.

Economies will recover eventually.
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting irishair98 (Thread starter):
why dont EI start west coast to SFO and LAX again by the looks of it demand is there but there not bothering till the A350's arrive but they could terminate the MAD - IAD route or not use the A330 for the malaga route

Why would you drop a very profitable run to Malaga to loose money on LAX/SFO. And as others have said, it fits between other transatlantic routes anyway so doesn't require any more aircraft.

I assume the MAD-IAD makes some money which is why it continues too.

The price of fuel and the global and domestic economy are the main reasons why the West coast has not been restarted.
EI will not restart it until it is confident that it can make money. Costs on this route are too high for the available yeild.
 
User avatar
flylku
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:29 pm

under what physical colors does the IAD MAD operate. Aer Lingus?
...are we there yet?
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 28):
I'd be for bringing back the route that worked solidly for 10 years, and survived every route cull during that period - Los Angeles.

Weren't the yields pretty poor? I don't recall it being year round daily either? Even LHR-LAX isn't a high frequency service.
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2085
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 31):
Weren't the yields pretty poor? I don't recall it being year round daily either? Even LHR-LAX isn't a high frequency service.

No, it was never a daily route with the exception of one summer season just prior to open skies being signed (when EI had the aircraft in expectation of starting new service to SFO, MCO, IAD etc)

It was always 3 per week in winter and 5 per week in Summer. Loads were great, yields were weaker, but it was still a money maker for EI.

This was at a time when EI could only fly to NYC, BOS, ORD and LAX such was the restricted bilateral between Ireland and the US at the time.

Quoting flylku (Reply 30):
under what physical colors does the IAD MAD operate. Aer Lingus?

Yup. It's a one of the regular EI 330 fleet.
 
by738
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:46 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 31):
I don't recall it being year round daily

It was year round and daily from 2007 prior that was 5 weekly
 
User avatar
shamrock604
Posts: 2085
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:27 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:48 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 33):
It was year round and daily from 2007 prior that was 5 weekly

The route was always year round - just not daily (except for that time in 2007 that you mentioned above.)
 
miaintl
Posts: 756
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:31 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:02 pm

Does anyone see Aer Lingus ever starting DUB-MIA in the near future? It seems to me that they can cut the MCO route and replace it with MIA which is much more high-yielding to Ireland.
 
irishair98
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:25 am

Quoting miaintl (Reply 35):

im just after looking up the passenger load for MCO on EI's website and it looks 3/4 and thats in the off season . MCO would get mostly lesiure traveller but they would get a lot of business to. MIA would get good passenger numbers to but in the off season it wouldn't be as much demand as the DUB - MCO route.
Dún Na Ngall Abú!
 
irishair98
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:04 pm

EI has decieded to slash the amount of flights on the DUB - BOS route from 11 per week to 7 per week freeing up th e A330's EI could operate a new seasonal flight with the free'd up A330
Dún Na Ngall Abú!
 
User avatar
IrishAyes
Posts: 2144
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:04 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting miaintl (Reply 35):
Does anyone see Aer Lingus ever starting DUB-MIA in the near future? It seems to me that they can cut the MCO route and replace it with MIA which is much more high-yielding to Ireland.

What makes you so confident that a year-round DUBMIA flight is more high-yielding than DUBMCO in high season?

KL couldn't even make MIA work.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5820
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting poLOT (Reply 1):
The MAD-IAD route is part of a joint venture with UA. EI probably can't terminate it before the contract ends without paying some hefty fees to them. And that is assuming that flight is unprofitable, which considering that is operating from a UA hub with a UA partnership is probably not an easy assumption to make

United leases the plane from Aer Lingus, EI gets their fees and its UA's job to sell tickets and pays for the fuel. EI should be making a decent return.
 
irishair98
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:19 pm

would it not make more sense for UA just to use there own metal on the MAD - IAD route i know its great for EI but would it not be better for UA ?
Dún Na Ngall Abú!
 
B747forever
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:30 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 31):
Even LHR-LAX isn't a high frequency service.

So you dont think that 8 daily flights each way is high frequency service?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
irishair98
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:38 pm

DUB - LAX was a high frequency but the fuel costs were to high from the economic downturn.
Dún Na Ngall Abú!
 
ein105
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:34 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting irishair98 (Reply 37):



EI has decieded to slash the amount of flights on the DUB - BOS route from 11 per week to 7 per week freeing up th e A330's EI could operate a new seasonal flight with the free'd up A330


I assume that you mean that from Nov the DUB-BOS schedule reduces? This is done every year, and although it frees up a 330, there is nowhere to fly the a/c profitably for the winter. This is why EI has looked at leading spare capacity to other operators in the winter

Quoting irishair98 (Reply 42):


DUB - LAX was a high frequency but the fuel costs were to high from the economic downturn.




DUB-LAX was never high frequency. It was only daily for a few months.

The fact is, that the airline market it tough. A long, thin route such as DUB-LAX/SFO is a huge risk for EI. I think theyre perfectly happy feeding West Coast pax via ORD and JFK, until the market begins to recover
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 41):
So you dont think that 8 daily flights each way is high frequency service?

OK good point I made that as clear as mud, I mean more along the lines that each airline drops to a single frequency in winter, unlike say JFK where frequency is kept higher.
 
irishair98
Topic Author
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:13 pm

Quoting ein105 (Reply 43):

if DUB - LAX was never a high frequency why did they keep the route and what about SFO ?
Dún Na Ngall Abú!
 
kaitak744
Posts: 2084
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:30 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 44):
OK good point I made that as clear as mud, I mean more along the lines that each airline drops to a single frequency in winter, unlike say JFK where frequency is kept higher.

The only flight that is dropped from time to time is the 3rd daily BA flight, and that has even survived through some recent winters. AA, UA, NZ, and VS have year round consistent LAX service. AA is even upgrading it to 777-300ER.
 
User avatar
legacyins
Posts: 1791
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 1:11 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:24 am

Quoting irishair98 (Reply 45):

Quoting ein105 (Reply 43):

if DUB - LAX was never a high frequency why did they keep the route and what about SFO ?


They dropped the LAX route within the year after the new air treaty service was granted. There are those who will argue that SFO was their original intent , probably was, but due to no open skies agreement, LAX was granted and was flown for ~10+ years. High oil, economic turmoil suspended the SFO flight.

As stated, EI stated they have no intent to return to the West Coast in the near future.
 
ein105
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:34 pm

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:41 pm

Quoting irishair98 (Reply 45):
Quoting ein105 (Reply 43):if DUB - LAX was never a high frequency why did they keep the route and what about SFO ?

High frequency means that the route is operated a number of times per day. LAX was only daily for a few months.

If you meant that LAX was high yeild, I dont think that was true either. Im sure the West Coast was profitable at some stage, but due to competition via LHR, EWR, ORD, PHL etc, DUB-West Coast has become a lot cheaper, and people wouldnt pay enough of a premium to fly direct with EI, to make the West Coast work. If the price of fuel drops, and they can attract enough traffic, they may reconsider
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Why Wont Aer Lingus Restart US Westcoast

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 46):

The only flight that is dropped from time to time is the 3rd daily BA flight,

Actually the VS023 / 024 is dropped frequently across the winter season, it seems to operate ab out 4-5 weekly in some months and the remainder of the US legacies and NZ are only at once daily anyway. The third BA service was dropped to see if the third introduction of SAN would see many of the California bound traffic head that way.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aha, Baidu [Spider], ben175, CARST, chiad, EIASO, FarhanAzmi, FAST Enterprise [Crawler], GRJGeorge, JeremyB, KarelXWB, knope2001, LazarosK, MIflyer12, MrBren, mwalker89, olle, overcast, sassiciai, sccutler, SonOfABeech, speedbored, spiplane, SpoonNZ and 301 guests