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OA260
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Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:10 am

Reports from the media that Aer Lingus are intending to enter the UK Domestic market from LHR .

Aer Lingus already operate domestic flights between BFS-LHR but this would be a new venture for the airline. They would be up against BA so I wonder how they would cope on the route. Maybe they would team up with BA and offer codeshares so BA could cut their own metal out of LHR?

Will be interesting to see how it pans out .

Link to story here :

Aer Lingus to bid for UK slots at Heathrow

Irish flag carrier, Aer Lingus, is considering an expansion into domestic flights in Britain.
Aer Lingus is considering an expansion into domestic flights in Britain in a clear signal to Ryanair that it is pursuing its own growth strategy and has no intention of submitting to a takeover.
The Irish flag carrier is lining up a bid for some of the 12 Heathrow take-off and landing-slots available after the acquisition of bmi by British Airways (Other OTC: BABWF.PK - news) in March.
Aer Lingus intends to offer flights between Edinburgh and Heathrow. Applications are due next month.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/aer...lingus-bid-uk-slots-205607639.html
 
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Dublinspotter
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:19 am

Hi

Very interesting indeed

Great news for EI! I do hope it works out for them but will they cope with BA if they do not make an agreement? Plus would they plan to use Atr's or Airbus' a/c and what about VS, they have hinted that they want the slots as well.

There is a lot of speculation about the airline at the minute, I wonder if they plan to go ahead and this in my mind seems to be a reaction towards FR's bid for them company.

Please, this is my thoughts and I do not know as much as everyone else!

Dublinspotter  
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Eirules
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:28 am

Oh no. Not another disasterous EI venture outside of Ireland. Did the LGW experiment not teach them. EI have done very well in the last couple of years by reducing costs and continuing to improve load factors and the route network ex Ireland. But their brand awareness outside of Ireland just isnt there. Unless it is a link up with another airline (ie BA or it could even be VS though doubtful), how many English or Scottish people are going to immediately think of EI when booking a UK domestic flight.

As much as I want to see EI grow, I hope this rumour isnt true
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:20 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 2):


Oh no. Not another disasterous EI venture outside of Ireland. Did the LGW experiment not teach them. EI have done very well in the last couple of years by reducing costs and continuing to improve load factors and the route network ex Ireland. But their brand awareness outside of Ireland just isnt there. Unless it is a link up with another airline (ie BA or it could even be VS though doubtful), how many English or Scottish people are going to immediately think of EI when booking a UK domestic flight.

But they mention BFS-LHR. (Northern) Ireland to England. Of all the potential domestic routes ex-LHR this one would be in EI's backyard.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
babybus
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:32 pm

You'd have to ask yourself what lessons did they learn in that ill conceived LGW venture. What would make LHR any easier? Are the marketing guys on the ball this time?

Failing at LGW isn't going to be a public confidence boost.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
richardw
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:23 pm

When did their LGW-AGP flights stop?
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:01 pm

In another article it has been mentioned that VS was about to apply for slots to start a route to Moscow... I thought SRB promised to start domestic routes out of LHR....
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
skipness1E
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:07 pm

It's right up their with launching Gatwick as a base!!! BA will maintain the top end, easyJet will continue to do well on STN, LTN and LGW and BA will continue to win against WX on LCY. Quite where Aer Lingus fits into this, I don't know. BA are unlikely to code share for one so once again they are going loco against. EZY? They expect to take market share from BA, in EDI? Into fortress LHR with a brand unknown in the market. My bet is they'll be squeezed to death by Exec Club vs easyJet.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Aer Lingus already operate domestic flights between BFS-LHR but this would be a new venture for the airline. They would be up against BA so I wonder how they would cope on the route. Maybe they would team up with BA and offer codeshares so BA could cut their own metal out of LHR?

There's something else going on behind the scenes here, I imagine.

My guess would be that EI will fly the route, and perhaps have a codeshare with Virgin Atlantic and whoever else to mitigate any risk.

I also imagine a codeshare with BA wouldn't be permitted as the slots are being assigned to compete with BA. Can a codeshare be denied? I mean, I am not sure if any applications to Government have to be made for codeshare agreements?

Quoting EIRules (Reply 2):
Did the LGW experiment not teach them.

That was under a different CEO you might recall. There is no way the current CEO would go for anything that would result in losses.

It is entirely possible that EI are thinking long term - if the EDI route doesn't work out for them commercially, I'd hazard a guess that they would be rather happily added to the portfolio for more services to Ireland.

Does anyone know if the slot award has a minimum time - for example, EDI must be served for a year, two years before the slots can be used for another route?

Quoting babybus (Reply 4):
You'd have to ask yourself what lessons did they learn in that ill conceived LGW venture. What would make LHR any easier? Are the marketing guys on the ball this time?

Aren't Aer Lingus one of the largest carriers at London Heathrow? Top 5 or something? Completely different to the Gatwick situation.

Aer Lingus were mentioning wanting these ex-BMI slots as far back as March this year, and have been mentioning wanting more Heathrow slots since at least September 2011 - by the way.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
fcogafa
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:23 pm

Telegraph article says VIR are also going to bid for EDI...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-bid-for-UK-slots-at-Heathrow.html
 
anstar
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
. Maybe they would team up with BA and offer codeshares so BA could cut their own metal out of LHR?

I don't think the EU comission wil allow them to team up with BA as it is BA's slots being given up to create more competition.

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 6):
In another article it has been mentioned that VS was about to apply for slots to start a route to Moscow... I thought SRB promised to start domestic routes out of LHR....

Well if Aer Lingus get the domestic slots then VS won't. But if VS are granted the domestic slots then they will launch a wet leas operation initially. FYI VS have applied for all the available slots.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:34 pm

It doesn't matter EI are big at LHR, they do well in their own patch, DUB, ORK and SNN. If BA are in Belfast for real then EI's position becomes fragile on BFS-LHR as BA have little to gain on codesharing. The issue at LGW was EI pitched up and launched into new markets and failed. London to Sun is easyJet, Thomson, Thomas Cook, Ryanair and BA territory. They didn't make a dent against EZY and ran away beaten. Going into Scotland - London against very strong and well established competitors without briging something new to the market is commercial suicide. CityJet got in as they built up LCY, EZY got in on price, BA are the dominat legacy. Exactly what are EI adding? LHR connectivity? That's BA. STAR cia LHR? No. Price? No. Frequency? No. Market presence? Zilch, indeed as a strong Irish branding, counter intuitive in this market. Service? Less than BA.

This is doomed, and appears to be political with management pretending they have a growth strategy without becoming part of FR.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 8):
Aren't Aer Lingus one of the largest carriers at London Heathrow? Top 5 or something? Completely different to the Gatwick situation.

Answered my own question - http://www.independent.ie/business/i...s-slots-says-varadkar-3161581.html - Aer Lingus are the third largest holder of slots at Heathrow.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
Going into Scotland - London against very strong and well established competitors without briging something new to the market is commercial suicide.

We will see what happens! I still reckon partnering with Virgin would work.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 2):
Oh no. Not another disasterous EI venture outside of Ireland. Did the LGW experiment not teach them. EI have done very well in the last couple of years by reducing costs and continuing to improve load factors and the route network ex Ireland. But their brand awareness outside of Ireland just isnt there. Unless it is a link up with another airline (ie BA or it could even be VS though doubtful), how many English or Scottish people are going to immediately think of EI when booking a UK domestic flight.

As much as I want to see EI grow, I hope this rumour isnt true

I agree 100%. EI should concentrate on building on their success at their Belfast, ORK, DUB, SNN, WAT bases as well as at NOC and KIR.
 
EIDL
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:17 pm

I didn't think Aer Lingus have the fleet to operate any more services at the moment? They have one owned, elderly enough, 320 for sale and otherwise what they have is flown fairly much to capacity. No orders or options on narrowbodies either.

EI Regional don't have any spare capacity either, their recent route decisions have had to be done at the cost of another route, and even if they do order and get their 72-600s quickly I don't think they'll want to use them to Heathrow!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:48 pm

A very strange move it if happens, I'd actually consider it quite out of character for the current Aer Lingus management team as this is the same management that closed the LGW base, reduced flying at BFS and cut transatlantic routes to SFO and IAD while cutting other frequencies at DUB and suspending transatlantic at SNN for three months in the winter. These moves, along with the Greenfield cost cutting programme were all part of returning Aer Lingus to profitability which was successful in 2010.

Since then Aer Lingus has had a very cautious approach to growth, they have focused on connectivity at DUB with increased frequencies on European routes, selected a few new European routes like STR and ARN while the Aer Lingus Regional franchise goes from strength to strength on Ireland-UK routes. The entire strategy at Aer Lingus since 2009 has been connecting Ireland with the World and focusing on yield, and routes that also provide inbound tourism to Ireland. It just seems odd for them to suddenly be interested in launching LHR domestic routes.

How long is Aer Lingus actually required to operate the routes? It could be possible that Aer Lingus will operate the routes for a period of time before swapping the slots to Irish routes, SNN could do with another brining it to 4 daily while ORK could easily maintain 5 daily if LGW-ORK is dropped.

Quoting EIDL (Reply 14):
No orders or options on narrowbodies either.

2 A319s on the way early next year and the future Belfast base is still unknown, could stay at BFS, moved to BHD or leave Northern Ireland altogether which would free up another 2 A319s and 1 A320.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
This is doomed, and appears to be political with management pretending they have a growth strategy without becoming part of FR.

The Aer Lingus CEO actually spoke about getting more slots at LHR a year ago and then earlier this year he mentioned bidding for the slots and operating Scottish routes so this isn't exactly breaking news and doesn't seem to be a knee jerk reaction to the Ryanair bid, that's just the spin the newspapers have decided on.
 
styles9002
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:45 pm

Interesting news if true but I don't see how Aer Lingus can make this work unless they are doing some kind of joint venture with Virgin Atlantic or other suitable partner. To go it alone sounds like it would be a disaster but perhaps someone inside the airline has a take on it to make it a success.

Beyond, that does these slots not 'belong' to Scotland the way I am often told the Aer Lingus slots at LHR 'belong' to the Irish taypayer? Surely, Aer Lingus/Irish Gov't are not the only entity to claim 'ownership' over these valuable assets. Indeed, if Scotland presses ahead with independence, I can't see how they would let EI just take the slots and redeploy them to Ireland.
It is what it is.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 15):
The Aer Lingus CEO actually spoke about getting more slots at LHR a year ago and then earlier this year he mentioned bidding for the slots and operating Scottish routes so this isn't exactly breaking news and doesn't seem to be a knee jerk reaction to the Ryanair bid, that's just the spin the newspapers have decided on.

What do you see Aer Lingus bringing to the table here. A selling point if you will?

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 12):
We will see what happens! I still reckon partnering with Virgin would work.

Why do you say this? There is no crossover or compliment to the brands. A codeshare might fill VS at LHR but BMI lost millions on LHR-GLA as codeshare revenue wasn't profitable enough. The core problem will be point to point where EI have no market presence at all. Or do you market it as Virgin and confuse people with an Aer Lingus machine at the gate? They'll have to be some pretty loss making lead fares to make any impact and the Orange monster has deep, deep pockets. BA will simply slay them on market dominance and connectivity. BMI were sold as being better than BA, even after that ceased to be true, it was a selling point. What are EI going to sell this on?
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:53 pm

I can't see the logic of this:

LHR is an expensive base to operate from and it was the changes to the structure of landing charges that prompte bmi to withdraw from LHR-GLA.

Aer Lingus doesn't have its own long-haul network to feed at LHR and even if it gains traffic feeding other carriers, the proportion of revenue it will receive is tiny (and, I understand, is only received after the customer has flown)

BA has an absolutely unrivalled frequency to LHR as well as flights to LCY/LGW and a large base of corporate contracts and the BA Executive Club frequent flyer base.

If bmi, with its heritage and Star Alliance frequent flyer base, couldn't compete in domestic then I can't see Aer Lingus doing so.

The only logic is if they want to hold onto the slots long enough to obtain grandfathering rights and then use the slots for other purposes.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:13 pm

Domestic UK routes (except BFS) would be a massive flop for EI. The same goes for any other non Ireland route they might consider out of LHR.
 
planejamie
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:19 pm

Let's see how long this lasts if it even gets off the ground. As covered above, EI don't have the fleet to add more domestic flights without cutting current European flights (which are profitable/feed their long haul services), BA already dominate LHR-regions and that's only profitable because it's feeding a huge network, VS doesn't have a great deal of flights to feed and there's very little O&D market between London and the Regions and you've got the trains (at least the west coast have, which by the way I've changed my opinion on and find them incredibly cheap, efficient, reliable, comfortable and more convenient than flying to London). Add to that Aer Lingus being a brand that's not the most well known in the UK (if I was to ask someone "have you heard of Aer Lingus" chances are they wouldn't know what I was on about - similarly with BD. Ask them if they've heard of BA or easyJet or Ryanair or Virgin Atlantic, they will have)

Long and short of it is, EI are a great airline from Ireland - somewhere, I doubt very much that they'll work things out for LHR - domestic. Or as LHRFlyer says, they'll operate it as a slot holder. I can see them after the period that they have to operate the flights domestically expires selling them to VS to be used as long haul (which to be honest will give VS a lot of bad press anyway).
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting Reply 16):
Beyond, that does these slots not 'belong' to Scotland the way I am often told the Aer Lingus slots at LHR 'belong' to the Irish taypayer? Surely, Aer Lingus/Irish Gov't are not the only entity to claim 'ownership' over these valuable assets.

Despite what some may try to tell you, the Irish Government or any government do not "own" Heathrow slots. There's been much talk of trying to preserve them for certain uses, but the Irish government cant really do squat about it, and quite frankly, they would not anyway. Such talk is only playing to local politics.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 18):
I can't see the logic of this:

Consider this - I would imagine that these slots hold a monetary value and that any bidder would have to pay BA a quite handsome sum to receive them. Perhaps EI are merely expressing an interest in order to push up the price of the slots, thus helping their good buddy, BA?
 
visualapproach
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:54 pm

This traveller would rather see Virgin Atlantic Regional.  
 
mainMAN
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 2):
But their brand awareness outside of Ireland just isnt there.

Well, I'd say EI has huge brand awareness in the UK, even though to most of us, EI possibly means Dublin. I'd hazard a guess that they're better known here than bmi ever was.

Sorry to take this one line out of your post (and hopefully not out of context).........it threw itself at me!
 
skipness1E
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting visualapproach (Reply 22):
This traveller would rather see Virgin Atlantic Regional.

....because you wish to see VS go bust? Regional flying and profit on the same balance sheet?
 
by738
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:48 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 24):
Regional flying and profit on the same balance sheet

Seems good enough for BA,, but thats for those with genuine access to said balance sheets....
 
skipness1E
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:02 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 25):
Seems good enough for BA,, but thats for those with genuine access to said balance sheets....
BA closed and sold off all "regional" flying when BACON was flogged off to flybe for mere buttons. If you mean feeding from the regions, well BA have over a hundred heavies on long haul that they need to fill which rather offsets the high costs and low usage of the short haul fleet.
Aer Lingus, well they don't. The BA codeshare seems to be going West now BA have staked a claim to making a proper go of BHD, I would be surprised if they'd be keen on a wee cartel with Aer Lingus on LHR-EDI.
BA have wave after wave of departures throughout the day, Virgin have much more sporadic departures without the critical mass that would require their own in house or franchised operation feeding domestics and capitals multiple times per day. That was why BMI was so useful, all the benefits and little of the true cost, it was also why BMI lost money.

Enough with the one liners, you are capable of writing well and on an informed basis BY738 and adding something genuine rather than a kinda personal dig.

[Edited 2012-07-08 15:08:06]
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:54 pm

Sounds like an absolutely bizzare strategy by EI. Their attempt at LGW failed pretty spectacurarly and BFS can at best be described as being moderately successful. The latest speculation about moving the whole operation to BHD and the fact that the current route network is very sun destination focused and bears very little resemblence to what it was when it was launched. I suppose the only thing this may have going for it that LGW didn't is that EI already have a fairly substantial presence at LHR and already have the necessary ground services in place. I really hope they have done their homework on this one cause I can't see how this is going to work.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
TC957
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:27 am

I agree that EI should keep to serving Ireland from LHR and not medley in the LHR - Scotland market. A couple of new services to regional points in Ireland from LHR is surely a better use of prized LHR slots.
 
richcandy
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:19 am

Hi

I am no expert and I freely admit that, but why does EI think it can make a go of UK domestic routes out of LHR when BD could not?

Just my view but I think the market on the London domestic routes has totally changed over the past 15 years. The LCC's mainly EZY have attracted a lot of leisure and business passengers away from LHR. There are not as many companies prepared to pay for full fare tickets in order for their employees to have flexibility when flying to and from Belfast or Scotland. Wifi, mobile broadband and mobile phones have changed the way people work, its not always as necessary for employees to rush off to GLA/EDI airport etc to get the next flight possible so that they can get back to the London office for a few hours.

Again just my view but when BA bought BD it was sort of thought as big bad BA buying BD when I believe that it was more a case of various customers voting with their wallets and moving to the LCC's.

Alex
 
anstar
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:06 am

I know VS have applied for the Moscow route authority - apparently another UK airline has also applied... anyone know who it is? Is it Easyjet?
 
babybus
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:15 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 24):
....because you wish to see VS go bust? Regional flying and profit on the same balance sheet?

Is that not one of those rumours we hear that domestic flying makes no profit.

Funny how easyjet wanted EDI and GLA from the outset. That's not a company that chases loss makers. BMI seemed happy to do it for a long time.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
tonystan
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:48 pm

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 29):
I am no expert and I freely admit that, but why does EI think it can make a go of UK domestic routes out of LHR when BD could not?

Dont know why you think BD couldnt make it work. BD had a very very long association with domestic services from LHR and was a very successful competitor to BA too. Its problems have been more recent. Infact if you look at the recent history you can see that the one thing that remained consisent was its domestic services (granted many got cut) compared to its fickle european feed!

Aer Lingus has a well recognised brand amongst the British consumer. It has been serving the UK since its inception in the 30s and I think it could work rather well for them IF it is marketed correctly, which if you ask me is Aer Lingus' constant downfall!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
GCT64
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:59 pm

We already discussed this possibility (LHR-Scotland on EI) in: Aer Lingus Moving From Belfast Int To Belfast City (by eire123 Jun 15 2012 in Civil Aviation) so I will avoid regurgitating the points made there.

It seemed to me from day 1 that only EZY and EI could credibly start, say, LHR-EDI using the relinquished BA slots. I don't think anyone seriously expects VS to commence any form of operation on domestic or short-haul routes, despite their rhetoric. EZY said they looked at it and then rejected the idea (unfortunately, because I think theye would have provided a great O&D service against BA's connection orientated service). EI have the advantage of a major existing presence at LHR (lounge, staff, operations etc.) and will have reasonable brand awareness at both ends of any domestic routes they offer.

On the basis that there will be a low proportion of O&D pax (EZY from LTN, STN & LGW and BA from LCY dominate this now), the challenge for anyone, and arguably this includes BA domestically, is getting enough of a proportion of the overall EDI-LHR-XXX journey cost to make a profit on the domestic leg. IIRC, BMI said they were losing £38 on every GLA-LHR or LHR-GLA pax they boarded. EI will need to get a larger amount of revenue per pax from a connection provided to VS / Star / Skyteam than BMI did, if they are to operate profitably. This seems to put the ball in the LHR long-haul airlines court - are they prepared to pay EI more per connecting pax?

BTW - I don't see this as the same as EI's ill fated excursion into LGW. I flew EI LGW-MUC a few times: good and very cheap with empty planes - it was obviously doomed. Domestic planes out of LHR to Scotland will definitely be full (clear demand, just need to price the seats at a level where the plane fills up) - but will they be profitable? That's going to be the challenge.
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,(..53 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
styles9002
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RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 32):
Aer Lingus has a well recognised brand amongst the British consumer.


Did you conduct or are you referring to a scientific poll? Who was surveyed? How was the question asked?

Is Aer Lingus a more well-recognized brand in the UK than Ryanair? How about Guinness or Baileys? Maybe Kerrygold or Jameson? Jurys Inns?

I don't doubt that some non-Irish people who are not aviation enthusiasts in the UK recognize Aer Lingus but to suggest it is 'well-recognized' across all industries is probably hyperbole.

I nearly always find these kinds of declarative statements funny, similar to the 'there are up to 40 million Americans who claim Irish ancestry so therefore Aer Lingus has great brand recognition in the US'. In reality, outside of small pockets of 1st generation immigrants and aviation enthusiasts, I'd wager most Irish-Americans wouldn't be able to spell Aer Lingus properly.
It is what it is.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 31):

Is that not one of those rumours we hear that domestic flying makes no profit.

No it's a comment that on a network carrier like BA, Air France and LH, short haul is a challenge on a legacy cost base. easyJet work their aircraft much harder than BA as they just fly P2P, network connectivity can demand some downtime when crew and assets are not productive.

Quoting babybus (Reply 31):
BMI seemed happy to do it for a long time.

They were not feeding their own long haul though, although charging high fares, normal for the time allowed a LHR hub of sorts on short haul. easyJet destroyed that with more affordable and frequent P2P.
 
tonystan
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:40 pm

Quoting Reply 34):
Did you conduct or are you referring to a scientific poll? Who was surveyed? How was the question asked?

Is Aer Lingus a more well-recognized brand in the UK than Ryanair? How about Guinness or Baileys? Maybe Kerrygold or Jameson? Jurys Inns?

I don't doubt that some non-Irish people who are not aviation enthusiasts in the UK recognize Aer Lingus but to suggest it is 'well-recognized' across all industries is probably hyperbole.

I nearly always find these kinds of declarative statements funny, similar to the 'there are up to 40 million Americans who claim Irish ancestry so therefore Aer Lingus has great brand recognition in the US'. In reality, outside of small pockets of 1st generation immigrants and aviation enthusiasts, I'd wager most Irish-Americans wouldn't be able to spell Aer Lingus properly.

I went out and knocked on almost every household in the UK myself, I did it in one weekend dressed like a leprauchan and asked them what airline do they think Im representing! It worked!

Seriously, pedantic much?

The research was done, prior to the launch of the LGW base (and indeed the BFS base) and although LGW hasnt worked out as well as EI had hoped it still proved that it was known.

Aer Lingus over the years has operated into pretty much all the main regional airports throughout the UK. It has a very successful transfer feed of customers from the regions via DUB to its transatlantic services. Yes people still seem to assume the carrier is a "full service" one but by and large Im pretty sure they are considered reliable.

Now if EI had said they intended on launching domestic services in say France or Germany id be putting serious consideration into relenquishing my shares in the company but I do feel it would work in the UK especially if an agreement is reached to feed into someone in LHR much like their codeshare right now with BA on the BFS route.

You can say what you like from the comfort of your home miles away over in the states but believe it or not, the UK consumer I am pretty sure would know exactly what nation the "lingus" airline belongs to. Lets not forget the famous interview on Graham Norton on BBC (or whatever station it was on at the time) where they talked about a certain sexual act and Joan Collins said "but isnt that the name of the Irish Airline?"!!!!! Got a giggle out of me!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
Eirules
Posts: 1446
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 36):
I went out and knocked on almost every household in the UK myself, I did it in one weekend dressed like a leprauchan and asked them what airline do they think Im representing! It worked!

Seriously, pedantic much?

LOL LOL for that alone, welcome to my RR list...

However on a more serious note, Im note sure if EI are such a well recognised brand outside of the Irish community (including extended Irish) and Im just not sure UK citizens will think to look at EI for domestic UK point to point travel
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting Reply 34):
Did you conduct or are you referring to a scientific poll? Who was surveyed? How was the question asked?

Seriously, the words "Aer Lingus" are in the cultural vocabulary of many, many Britons. I can't claim to know how many, but believe it.
 
tonystan
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 37):
LOL LOL for that alone, welcome to my RR list...

LOL, Awww cheers! Hope the humours not lost elsewhere!

Quoting EIRules (Reply 37):
However on a more serious note, Im note sure if EI are such a well recognised brand outside of the Irish community (including extended Irish) and Im just not sure UK citizens will think to look at EI for domestic UK point to point travel

I think in the UK the airline will certainly be known of. Not exactly the house hold name BA would be but close enough. EI have had more then enough advertising in the place over the years. However we must also remember that the UK consumer is primarily driven by cost and will inevitably go for the cheapest option. If EI start to go head to head with BA on routes into LHR where BA presently have the monopoly I can assure you which airline will have the cheaper fares and it wont be "the worlds favourite"! LOL! It wont be long before a name is made for Aer Lingus amongst the communities it will serve as a reliable and more affordable way to get down to the Golden Runways!

All ofcourse my own humble opinion...Im not at all biast just cos I worked for them 10 years ago and I still commute with them every week !LOL!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:53 pm

You're concatenating two slightly different issues. Most people in the UK have heard of Aer Lingus, however the key point is that the public won't be considering them for a domestic flight in that market. Be careful not to smooth the LGW fiasco over as a valiant effort, it was a balls up of very expensive proportions that many, many people warned against!
 
styles9002
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 8:21 pm

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 36):
The research was done, prior to the launch of the LGW base (and indeed the BFS base) and although LGW hasnt worked out as well as EI had hoped it still proved that it was known.

I admire you wit and you brought a smile to my face, but you didn't really answer my question. You may claim I am pedantic but words have meanings and you can't go around making declarative statements without substantiating them. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said "everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not to his own facts'.

Anyhow, if you think this possible plan to launch non-Irish routes out of a UK airport is a good idea because Aer Lingus is a 'recognized' brand in the UK, fair play to you and best of luck. As a shareholder you have everything to gain as well as lose in this exercise if it ever happens. If I were a shareholder in the firm, I would be more circumspect.

Beyond that I have no idea who Graham Norton is (just had to google him to find out) but I don't get out much from the comfort of my home many miles away so that is probably irrelevant. Regardless, I doubt many people beyond the UK & Ireland do and probably don't consider said interview to be very famous, if that, at all.
It is what it is.
 
visualapproach
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:09 pm

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 24):
....because you wish to see VS go bust? Regional flying and profit on the same balance sheet?

No, because I'm being wildly idealistic..
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3368
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:54 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 36):
Lets not forget the famous interview on Graham Norton on BBC (or whatever station it was on at the time) where they talked about a certain sexual act and Joan Collins said "but isnt that the name of the Irish Airline?"!!!!! Got a giggle out of me!

This is the one where she claimed to have been repeatedly Ryanaired? I'll get me coat......
 
tonystan
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: Aer Lingus In Bid To Enter UK Domestic Market(LHR)

Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:38 am

Quoting Reply 41):
I doubt many people beyond the UK & Ireland do and probably don't consider said interview to be very famous, if that, at all.

Well its ok if people from beyond Ireland and the UK dont get it, because EI are only looking at said market so perfect!
Im not making grand statements like you suggest. I dont have the facts or evidence, but I have the knowledge. I have worked for two major carriers (ei being one of them, and a certain other large british carrier being the other) and I have a good idea of the markets and the customer base. The business communities know EI. The households know EI. They dont know they offer domestic UK services yet, because it hasnt happened. But when it does they will know what to expect!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.

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